* S P O I L E R S * Battlestar Galactica Discussion thread.

[Santoro]

UPDATE  -Spoilers through the Season Finale.


* S P O I L E R S *
Do not read ahead if you haven't watched up to the latest BSG episode. (Episode 318 - "The Son Also Rises" aired Sunday Mar-11-2007 in the US.)

This is all idle speculation I put together last night for my blog. I changed my mind and decided I'd probably get more discussion going on here.

So with Kara Thrace (Starbuck) 'killed off,' what might the future hold for the show?  Here are my thoughts and observations:

*In the credits for Sunday's episode 318, her name was removed.  A few folks have noticed that there was an appropriate 'pause' in the credits between names as though still holding a spot for her name.

*I refuse to believe that the otherwise brilliant BSG writers decided to suddenly scrap the idea of Kara's 'brilliant destiny' and dumb it down so that her destiny is now to go mental and ‘off herself.’

*As cheezy as it would be, it is possible that she ejected (they showed her holding the eject handle) and is either on the Cylon heavy raider she was pursuing or on the planet surface.

*A more likely scenario IMHO is that Kara has some sort of mystical afterlife, maybe as one of the Final Five Cylons, or as something bigger.  There are some interesting tidbits in BSG ‘lore’ that support this:

An online article about BSG 1980 says:

The Beings of Light are a mysterious race that travel using the Ship of Lights. Called angels by the primitive people on Kobol, these creatures helped them develop the civilization that would become the Twelve Colonies (War of the Gods).
Apparently mistakes were made in the past by these advanced beings, as they seem reluctant to interfere directly with the Colonials or the Terrans. They help Apollo and battlestar Galactica save the Terrans from themselves (Experiment in Terra).

……

A scrapped episode, entitled "The Wheel of Fire," would have had Starbuck rescued from a lonely asteroid by more representatives of this mysterious race.

It seems plausible to me that these beings are present in the new series and rescued Kara as was outlined in the unproduced episode.  Hell, she could even be an offspring of one of them…her father is only described as an ‘unhappy musician.’  Her mother, being military, could have had opportunity – knowingly or not -  to mingle with them. This would help explain the brilliant white light shown from our perspective as she was dying.  She wasn’t flying toward any sun-like object.  It would also help explain why everyone is going on about her destiny incessantly. 

From  Wikepedia’s discussion on BSG religious documents: (the sentence structure is wrong, so preface this whole thing with (sic)

So far, the show has offered little detail of the Sacred Scroll, other than that it contains the Book of Pythia, which chronicles an ancient female, who journeyed with the 13th tribe on their voyage to earth. Pythia also described the exodus of the 12 tribes, and the things to happen to them. She described a dying leader, who will guide the tribes to salvation. .. the scriptures tell of the return to Kobol, stating that bringing the Arrow of Apollo to the Tomb of Athena. The dying leader is to die just before the end of the journey. President Roslin sees herself as playing the part of the leader in the texts, as she is dying of terminal breast cancer (at least at the events up to the middle of season 2).

Is it possible Kara was actually the fabled leader?  Maybe she was sick?  Whatever the case she will likely be back only here and there.  I actually heard a radio interview with Katie Sakhoff where she said carefully "Starbuck as we know her is gone."  Later she slipped and said "I don't know when I'm coming back" - not "if I'm coming back."

I also predict that Sam Anders will be outed as a Cylon.  I base this on 1) the previews for next week’s show had the Six in custody revealing that she knew what Tigh had done to his wife.  Only Tigh, his wife, and Anders were near when it happened.  2) When Galactica was liberating New Caprica and Anders met Athena in the river he gave her a creepy and ‘knowing’ smile.  To me it was too odd to be unintentional.

Overall I think that the show is going in a direction that will eventually have Cylon and Human reaching Earth together.  By that time so many of those we thought to be human will have been disclosed to be Cylons that humanity will be forced to redefine what human is, and instead measure people by their actions, not their mechanical or organic nature.  Or some such drivel. 

What do you think?

[Howard_Casto]

Well Katie Sakhoff was thinking of leaving the show and they had bad contract disputes with her.  Rather than doing the old "check out Bo and Lukes cousins that look just like them and for no apparent reason moved to hazzard and started driving hte duke's car" route they decided to tastefully kill her off for now. 

BSG isn't exactly full of twists and turns in terms of plot... they've practically screamed the answer to you already, she is one of the fabled "5" the cylons keep yapping about.  And nope she's not the leader, because she was never dying, she just died. 

You are running to conclusions about Tigh and the whole outed cylon bit.  She was dead, in the rebel base with a cup of poison in her hands.  Any cylon that found the body could have pieced it together.  If anything, his wife is the likely cyclon (but that is doubtful). 

They will make it to earth... when they are ready to cancel the show.  That bit ruins the show, look at BSG 1980 (UGH!). 

[Santoro]

BSG isn't exactly full of twists and turns in terms of plot... they've practically screamed the answer to you already, she is one of the fabled "5" the cylons keep yapping about. 

I know that's what they've been 'screaming' is the answer.  I am beginning to think it's way too obvious and actually a diversion for something bigger.  There is a lot of talk in the press that the season ending is going to freak out a lot of fans, and that makes no sense if she is one of the Final 5.  Everyone is expecting that.    That's why I said  "*A more likely scenario IMHO is that Kara has some sort of mystical afterlife, maybe as one of the Final Five Cylons, or as something bigger."

edit, found this from Jamie Bamber:

TVGuide.com: I'm so excited about the fourth-season pickup, but we're still watching this season. Good stuff coming up?
Bamber: I think so. I think it is really, really great stuff. The last four episodes in particular are really quite extraordinary. There are huge changes within the show, there are several huge surprises. By all accounts, the editors and people who have seen cuts of the finale are really, really excited.

TVGuide.com: Well, at the end of every season I'm usually sitting with my jaw wide open in shock.
Bamber: Yeah, I honestly think that this year your jaw will be even closer to the floor. It is a different finale in the sense that the previous ones have been about fragmenting the characters and spreading them all over different parts of space, and this one, everyone is really on board Galactica. Every major character is on Galactica, and the stuff going on down on Galactica is where the drama is.

TVGuide.com: Do I need my box of tissues?
Bamber: You'll need them along the way [for the final four episodes]. But for the finale, you're going to need to prop up your jaw.

You are running to conclusions about Tigh and the whole outed cylon bit.  She was dead, in the rebel base with a cup of poison in her hands.  Any cylon that found the body could have pieced it together.  If anything, his wife is the likely cyclon (but that is doubtful). 

You don't think they gave her a proper burial offscreen?  How would said Cylon have known it was Tigh that did it?   I agree Ellen Tigh probably couldn't be a Cylon.   Anyway the Anders thing for me is a hunch, there's not a lot of evidence to support it, just lots of small oddities that seem to add up to something.

They will make it to earth... when they are ready to cancel the show. 

 
Moore has said in a Q&A that he knows exactly what time it will be when they reach Earth, so it's pretty much decided.  Hopefully they can make it before the network pulls the plug.

That bit ruins the show, look at BSG 1980 (UGH!).

  I'll bet the modern version could make it work rather well.

edit: forgot to mention that I read Sakhoff is still under contract with NBC/Universal.

[jbox]

I have stated before that I don't see the point in trying to work out what is going to happen next in BSG. A truly planned show would have happily dropped clues about New Caprica and the Algae planet *before* those episodes were written. Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent show that really tries to deal with the real-life day to day issues of living like they do, even going out on a limb to deal with topics like abortion, drug abuse and racism. I just don't see the point on speculating on shows like this and Lost when it's clear that the writers may have some ideas on a whiteboard somewhere, but there is definitely no hard and fast plan for the show like there was for B5.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

This show really is a Man Soap (Opera) isn't it?   

[Santoro]

Guilty.  But it's gooood.

[Howard_Casto]

This show really is a Man Soap (Opera) isn't it?   

No that's pro wrestling.  This is a Man drama.  BIG difference. 

[MYX]

I told my wife that we would see her in 4 episodes. (this last one being the first) I figure that it will allow for folks take to the idea of her being gone. Then,  they will just sneak her in in the last few seconds of a show. Everyone will go ohmygosh it's Starbuck. (perhaps venti nonfat no whip)
She will slowly make her way into the show for little appearances and then the show will get canceled and she will make the major comeback for like the last few episodes.

Though I love BSG, I keep feeling like I am watching DS9 reruns. Starbuck is the Cisco (sp?)

[Santoro]

This afternoon I found a link to some rather credible-sounding spoilers for the last two episodes.   General concensus on the Scifi bulletin boards is that it is authentic.

Anyone interested in  the HTML file that I downloaded from the SCIFI forums today?  (They pulled the original thread. ) It is fracking amazing stuff.  I am kind of bummed to have it spoiled, but overall I am glad I did because it gives me time to think before the finale.  Lots to absorb and make sense of.  Everything changes.  And loyal viewers will freak out over this ending.  If a lot of folks want to see it I'll post it here.  If only a few I'll send PMs with it.

The fact that they pulled it confirms its authenticity to me.

[MYX]

Naw, I do not even like to watch the previews. I find that they leave no surprises (Much like movie trailers). I am waiting for the president and admiral to shack up. 

[Hoopz]

I had dvr'd the last 4 episodes so I finally had time to watch them over the last week.  I was pretty pissed about Starbuck, but I also believe she ejected.  I agree that she could be a cyclon, but I doubt it.   I had initially thought that but it just seems to be too mundane.  I think one of the best things about the series is that it pushes the envelope with so many different things.  The camera angles and cinemaphotography is amazing, the plots are mostly developed etc.  There have only been a few episodes that were average.

For example, how many times has Adama had a chance to talk to Lee and be the sterotypical father only to have him lay into him?  Not having looked at any previews or spoliers (purposely avoided this thread for a while, thank goodness), I can't imagine that it will be something that a lot of people can guess.

I mean, how many people would have bet on Lee Adama resigning his commission?

[Howard_Casto]

Well tonight was the final episode of the year and suprise suprise I was right.  Although they didn't spell it out..........

4 of the 5 were revealed... Tigh, the president's assistant, starbucks husband, and Gaylen. 

Unlike boomer, they apparently don't have any malicious programming.  If you think about it, these 4 make perfect choices for sleeper agents, these 4 basically ran every aspect of the remaining humans, without being too obvious a choice.  I'll get into speculations later.

And of course, startbuck conviently returns saying she's found the way to earth at the exact same time with a cylon fleet on her ass, so there's your fifth. 

No more episodes till 2008, which blows, especially considering we only have a half season of sg1 left... but I digress. 

My personal theroy on where things are going....

The creation of the cyclons is pretty vague but we do know that they "went away" for a while before returning with the new human models.  We know that there are 5 "profits" in the human mythos and the final 5 cylons from the cylonic mythos.  It seems to me that while the cylons were away, they ran across the 5 the humans speak of (not literally) and their new found religion.  The final 5 models are clones/reincarnations/whatever of the original 5 whom were fore-fathers of the ancient colonists.  The entire conflict has occured because of the cyclons stumbling upon this info as it was prophecized. 

Rozelyn is indeed the "chosen one" but is very human.  Athena and Caprica 6 also have an as of yet undetermined role to play.  The hybrid child's role will turn out to be nothing much, at least as it pertains to the remaining season, other than a convienant "protect the princess" plot device.

Half of this probably won't come to pass, because, quite frankly, the BSG writing staff isn't that good, but hey I thought I'd share.

[Santoro]

No time to post my thoughts till later, but I'd like to state for the record - I called Anders (Starbuck's husband) as a Cylon above.  neener neener.    I was originally skeptical that the four shown are really cylons, but this interview with Ron Moore seems to confirm that they are.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

[tk_42_1]

Helo and Athena's child isn't anything special anymore since Tyrol and Cally have a child also.

Just thought of this though....Helo/Athena have a girl hybrid and Tyrol/Cally have a boy hybrid.  Coincidence?  Who knows (this isn't Lost now is it.)

[Howard_Casto]

Helo and Athena's child isn't anything special anymore since Tyrol and Cally have a child also.

Just thought of this though....Helo/Athena have a girl hybrid and Tyrol/Cally have a boy hybrid.  Coincidence?  Who knows (this isn't Lost now is it.)

Well see that's a plot hole... makes me think either these cylons are "special" or that this plot deviation was a last minute thing.  Remember when Baltar was all like "The cylon child contains all kinds of funky anti-bodies that'll magically cure your cancer"?  Well it wasn't something he had to really look for, it was obvious to him by looking at the medical records.  Their child has been sick at least once, and the doc hasn't been "holy crap, this is a hybrid baby!"  So these guys are cylons, but they aren't cylons.... or something like that.

[jbox]

R: When did you decide to make these four characters Cylons and how much did you have to go back and check to make sure that fit with things we already knew about these four characters?

RM: It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories.

The other day there was an ad for Lost on our telly that "promised to show you how all the clues fit together." I wondered briefly how genetically engineered "not-quite-so polar bears" and genetically engineered "super strong bad guys" might actually vaguely fit together, and then I remembered that most of this crap just gets made up while they write the next couple of episodes each month. 

[MYX]

Helo and Athena's child isn't anything special anymore since Tyrol and Cally have a child also.

Just thought of this though....Helo/Athena have a girl hybrid and Tyrol/Cally have a boy hybrid.  Coincidence?  Who knows (this isn't Lost now is it.)

Yeah, I thought it would turn inito the situation from V (Which was one of my all time favorites as a kid).

I gotta tell ya. I really liked the lawyer guy.(name?) I thought that Baltar was going to get assassinated right there in the court room. But then I thought that he is too full of weasly mischief to get taken out.

Ok please excuse the nativity of the question, but so what 4 people hear the same music and go into a dream and now they think they are all cylons. Or, is there more to this. Just before the power outage, the president got really faint and was sort of out of it for a while. Is it possible that because she was on the hallucinogenic meds she was perhaps the last of the 5 but numb to the events that pulled the other 4 together? Is it possible that Kara is the is the  5th. Hmmm the pres as the enemy. Why would she want Baltar deas so much. Perhaps she fears he might know. She goes and gets gets herself all blowed up, then shows back up? Hmmm...Seems that there is cylon technology to regenerate folks. Everybody would welcome her back in, she would be a hero, then she could have a couple of scenes getting all hot and bothered, fracks someone, then blows up Galactica.

I was kinda hoping for the Jimi Hendrix version of All along the watchtower.  I initially thought that  it was just a small little insiders joke when Saul said there must be some kind of way out of here. It was too specific of a sentence to be a standard line from him. Then as it turned out, it was just a tie together.                           

[MYX]

Their child has been sick at least once, and the doc hasn't been "holy crap, this is a hybrid baby!"

Yeah, but you remember that a few weeks ago there was the issue with the bad doctor. Perhaps he was more sinister than we initially thought.

[Howard_Casto]

No... think about it.. he SAVED their baby.  That thing would be dead if he thought it was a cyclon.

[MYX]

Yeah, but he was genicidal towards a race of people, not cylons.

[Howard_Casto]

yeah and he almost killed Athena too... racists typically don't pick and choose who to hate, as long as they aren't like them they are fair game.