Which to buy -- table saw, compound miter saw, or ...

[fatfingers]

Hey gang,

I wanted opinions, so I thought this would be the right place to find 'em!   


I rarely do woodworking, but I do like to do it.  I don't really have any skills, but still like to do woodworking.  One issue for me is I don't really have any good tools.  I do have a jigsaw and a circular saw and have used "the sawboard method" to use my circular saw as a table saw.

I would like to buy a decent saw that won't break the bank, but I don't know what to buy.  Should it be a table saw?  A compound miter saw?  One of those compound-miter-saw looking things that has the blade that can be slid back and forth (what is that saw called?)?  Something else?

I don't really have any plans to build anything major.  Initially I think I might need the saw for doing new woodwork in the house, etc., so that makes me think I should get the compound miter saw, but I just really do not know.

Thoughts please?

Thanks!

[Rusty]

One of those compound-miter-saw looking things that has the blade that can be slid back and forth (what is that saw called?)?

That would be either a sliding compound miter saw or a radial arm saw... I'm not quite sure which you're describing.

As for which saw to buy, it really depends on what you're planning on using it for.  Miter saw are used more for cutting long, narrow pieces.  If you're comfortable using the sawboard method, I'd say go for a miter saw.

[GadgetGeek]

I find I use my miter saw a lot.  It isn't even a compound one.  I keep thinking about getting a table saw, but not sure where I would put it.  I use a sawboard when necessary.  But I really like my miter saw.

[fatfingers]

sliding compound miter saw ... who would have ever thought it would have such a simple name!!!

I am also concerned with storage space and that's another reason I'm leaning toward the miter saw.  I like the idea of being able to rip things on a table saw, but I don't have an immediate need for that...

[sodapopinski]

Start off with a miter, with a decent sized blade. I use my miter much more than my compound anyways. Miter is less expensive as well.

[ScottS]

I think you should do some more research and think about what kinds of projects you might attempt. A miter saw, be it compound or sliding, is a fairly specialized tool. They're great if you're planning to build a deck or install a new hardwood floor.

In my opinion, a tablesaw is a more versatile tool.

[fatfingers]

I think you should do some more research and think about what kinds of projects you might attempt. A miter saw, be it compound or sliding, is a fairly specialized tool. They're great if you're planning to build a deck or install a new hardwood floor.

In my opinion, a tablesaw is a more versatile tool.

Thanks for the info!  That's exactly the type of feedback I am looking for!

[NiteWalker]

The tablesaw is the foundation of my shop (frequently assisted with multiple routers ). If I had to buy my tools all over again, I'd start with a tablesaw again. As stated, a miter saw is a specialized tool. If you need to cut lots of long pieces, it'll have it's place in your shop. I'd get a table saw first definitely, but while you're deciding, grab one of these. That's an excellent price on an excellent benchtop 10" bandsaw. I messed around with one today at sears and it easily spanks any other saws at the 10" range. Especially the price.

How much are you looking to spend?

[DrewKaree]

Depends on your budget too.  If you're looking to buy a compound miter saw, you'll find "table saws" that aren't a whole lot more than a glorified circular saw for the same amount of money.

Figure out what some of the more immediate projects are that you want to perform around the house first, then list those here.  That'll help with telling you to either save a bit more cash to get a table saw, or recommend a good miter saw.

Oh, and a sliding compound miter saw will set you back about double what a non-sliding compound miter saw would, so the slider would mate up comparably with a decent table saw.

Too much information missing.

[sodapopinski]

The table saw is more versatile but it's less cost effective and takes up more space.

Like drew said

Too much information missing.

[fatfingers]

Too much information is missing because I just plain don't know.  My woodworking experience is basically nil.  I do know that when I've needed a saw in the past I've always borrowed my neighbor's miter saw.  The only time that didn't work so well is when I was building my cabinet because of course the saw just couldn't handle wood that big.  So, I used the sawboard method on that.

Most projects I would end up doing would be your simpler "I don't have a clue what I'm doing" homeowner projects.  Some of these might include:

deck replacement
replace base board


But, I might want to evenually build a couple of other things like toy boxes for my kids, or *gasp* a custom-built pantry style cabinet for a rather awkward empty space in our kitchen.


 

[NiteWalker]

Here's a few suggestions; first of all, even though you may be tempted, avoid the $99 benchtop table saws. They do their job, but not very well. Accuracy with those types of table saws is a suggestion at best. There are some very nice jobsite saws in the $400-$500 range (like the Bosch 4000-9 which has a very nice mobile stand, or the Dewalt DW745 or the Ridgid TS2400LS). But in that price range you're entering full size contractor saws. For instance the Jet JWTS-10 is $549 shipped, the Ridgid TS3650 can be had for $549 or less if you have a coupon (hint: homedepot.com/moving  ), and probably one of the best contractor saws for under $700 and the one I have, the Delta 36-980. A very worthy tablesaw for under $700. This one can be had for less as well. I paid a grand total of $483 for it because I had the above mentioned home depot coupon, $50 rebate from Lowe's (where I got it-they accept home depot coupons) and a $50 rebate directly from delta. It's a great saw and I love it. It'll last me for many years.

That's another thing to think about; cheaper tools won't last as long as production quality tools. I'd rather spend more upfront than have to spend smaller but multiple times as the tool breaks and needs to be replaced (most often with cheap tools, repairs cost more than a new tool ). Spend big once, cry once.

The projects you mentioned would make a compound miter saw a good investment for you as well since table saws aren't that good for cutting long workpieces. Truth of the matter is, if you want to get good results and make good projects you'll eventually own both (based on the projects you listed; I still don't own a miter saw as my project needs don't dictate the necessity for one). You don't need to splurge on a miter saw. A $200 miter saw will serve you perfectly. I would still go for a tablesaw first though. Other purchases later on should include a bandsaw if you plan on doing any projects with odd shapes or curves (this one's on sale until 3/17 ), and several routers. Ok, maybe one for now, but get a good one with a plunge and fixed base; like the Dewalt DW618PK kit or the Bosch 1617EVSPK kit. Both are excellent router kits.

Hope this helps some.

[DrewKaree]

Too much information is missing because I just plain don't know.  My woodworking experience is basically nil. 

No experience is necessary for you to know what you might want to do - see, you've already got a few ideas, which is what we're getting at.

You more than likely WILL end up with both, but for the things that immediately sprang to mind, you'd more than likely be better off starting with a miter saw.

Your own experience thus far points to you using a miter saw more often in the past, and your ideas of what you might want to tackle point to a miter saw as well.

That being said, your neighbor is willing to borrow you his.  If he's a good friend and you don't mind asking him for his all the time, use his to allow you to buy a table saw and later on buy the miter saw.  I have 3 in-laws who have table saws, and have not bought one yet for precisely the reason above - I can easily access a table saw at any time, but I long ago bought my own 10" compound miter saw.

For a miter saw, I wouldn't look at anything less than a 10" model, but that's just me.  Having owned one for a while now, if I came across a stellar deal on a 12" compound miter saw or a 10" sliding compound miter saw, I'd snatch it up in a second, but your budget might not be able to handle that.

[ScottS]

Good advice from NiteWalker. Sounds like your immediate projects (deck, base boards) would make  a miter saw useful (though both projects can be accomplished with a circular saw). If you decide to buy a miter saw, take a long look at the Delta/Porter-Cable TwinLaser models. I bought the Delta 36-255L for my deck and flooring projects. Sure, the super-expensive Bosch models get higher ratings in the woodworking mags, but the Delta does everything I need. And the TwinLaser feature is spectacular! Not sure how I ever managed to work without it!

Sadly, it looks like Delta/Porter-Cable may be in the midst of re-vamping their miter saw line. The only saw I currently see is the 36-322L. It looks like the model I bought... but without the extension table that mine included. They had a dual-bevel version of the saw for a while, which is what I would have recommended, but it seems to have disappeared  Given the minimal price difference, I'd buy a 12" saw over a 10". Sliding compound miter saws (SCMS's) are quite a bit more expensive than their non-sliding cousins. They're also slightly less accurate and require quite a bit more space due to the slides. A 10" SCMS will generally have slightly more cross-cut capacity than a 12" CMS. For myself, I didn't think that doubling the price was worth it.

[javeryh]

I would choose the table saw but you didn't mention whether you had a router or not.  If not I'd buy that before anything else - it is extremely versatile.  Before I got my table saw I used to make all of my straight cuts with a pattern bit and a straight edge and I could use the router for a ton of other things.

[fatfingers]

I do not have a router, but that is also on my list of things to get.  I had so much fun with the one I borrowed to build my cab!   

[moriartyds]

If you're planning to build some furniture (mame cab, bookcases, etc.), do projects around the house and all that I'd wholeheartedly recommend a good table saw (the Bosch 4000 is my tool of choice for the $<500 range).

[By the way, if you're looking for some ideas on what to build and you're a relative rookie, try picking up some issues of the Family Handyman or similar magazine.  They always have fairly easy to build, decently detailed projects for things like bookcases, workbenches, etc.]

If you're just using it once, or cutting up 2x4's occasionally I would just stick with the circular saw and rent equipment if necessary.

I'd only go with the mitre saw when you have a need to make accurate mitre type cuts (like crown molding or something similar).  Simple bevels and other cuts can be done on the table saw.

[fatfingers]

[By the way, if you're looking for some ideas on what to build and you're a relative rookie, try picking up some issues of the Family Handyman or similar magazine.  They always have fairly easy to build, decently detailed projects for things like bookcases, workbenches, etc.]

Interesting.  I think I'll pick up a Family Handyman issue if I can find one.  Ideas are always hard to come by for me!

[DrewKaree]

Wal-Mart carries 'em all the time around me.  Otherwise for a taste, go to Barnes & Noble - you'll pay more, but I guarantee they'll have it.

[ScottS]

If you're planning to build some furniture (mame cab, bookcases, etc.), do projects around the house and all that I'd wholeheartedly recommend a good table saw (the Bosch 4000 is my tool of choice for the $<500 range).

Do yourself a favor: if you want to build furniture, buy a full-size "contractor's" tablesaw or a "hybrid" tablesaw. Benchtop saws make furniture building more difficult than it should be: they don't have the cut capacity or blade capacity or power that a larger saw has, nor do their direct-drive motors cut as nicely as a belt-driven saw. Accuracy may suffer due to their light weight and flimsier components (e.g. fence). Most people I know who attempt building furniture with a benchtop saw complete one project... then want a different saw. For $100 more than the Bosch 4000 or Ridgid TS2400, you can get the Ridgid TS3650 contractor's saw. Add another $150 or so you can get an entry-level hybrid saw. And for a couple hundred more than that you can get an entry-level cabinet saw...

[moriartyds]

Do yourself a favor: if you want to build furniture, buy a full-size "contractor's" tablesaw or a "hybrid" tablesaw. Benchtop saws make furniture building more difficult than it should be: they don't have the cut capacity or blade capacity or power that a larger saw has, nor do their direct-drive motors cut as nicely as a belt-driven saw. Accuracy may suffer due to their light weight and flimsier components (e.g. fence). Most people I know who attempt building furniture with a benchtop saw complete one project... then want a different saw. For $100 more than the Bosch 4000 or Ridgid TS2400, you can get the Ridgid TS3650 contractor's saw. Add another $150 or so you can get an entry-level hybrid saw. And for a couple hundred more than that you can get an entry-level cabinet saw...

Nothing against your Rigid, but I've made bookshelves, toychests, workbenches, a bar, an arcade cab, tables, outdoor benches and other miscelleaneous stuff with the Bosch.  The accuracy and motor is pretty darn good by my own needs. 

You can always spend more money for nice equipment, and don't get me wrong the 36" rip capacity would be nice compared to the 25 or so Bosch, but I'm not convinced any newbie needs to spend over $500 for personal use.  Actually, I think the Bosch is even overkill for most beginners.

[NiteWalker]

The bosch is about $500 right now. The ridgid is $550...

The only thing the bosch has over the ridgid is it's a portable and mobile. BTW, the Bosch is probably the nicest benchtop saw available, but even the greatest benchtop saw is nothing compared to an induction motor full sized contractor's saw. I'd gladly pay another $50 for a better motor, better fence, better rip capacity, QUIET motor (not to mention more powerful; a 13 amp induction motor spanks the living daylights out of a 15 amp universal motor saw).

You're absolutely right, a newbie or very occasional hobbiest could find better things to spend their money on. But someone who will build more than 1 cabinet in their lifetime would be doing theirselves a big favor by getting a full sized saw.

[moriartyds]

Interesting.  I think I'll pick up a Family Handyman issue if I can find one.  Ideas are always hard to come by for me!

Most bookstores or even Lowe's/HomeDepot have magazines (like Woodworking Magazine) that have projects in them.  I just threw out Family Handyman because the projects tend to be geared more towards basic carpentry (they usually don't have complicated joints, cuts etc.).  

Of course there's a lot of content in Handyman that isn't woodworking specific (like articles on fixing up your bathroom and stuff) which may or may not be your interest.

[moriartyds]

The bosch is about $500 right now. The ridgid is $550...

The only thing the bosch has over the ridgid is it's a portable and mobile. BTW, the Bosch is probably the nicest benchtop saw available, but even the greatest benchtop saw is nothing compared to an induction motor full sized contractor's saw. I'd gladly pay another $50 for a better motor, better fence, better rip capacity, QUIET motor (not to mention more powerful; a 13 amp induction motor spanks the living daylights out of a 15 amp universal motor saw).

You're absolutely right, a newbie or very occasional hobbiest could find better things to spend their money on. But someone who will build more than 1 cabinet in their lifetime would be doing theirselves a big favor by getting a full sized saw.

Fair enough.  I wasn't trying to make this a Bosch vs. Rigid conversation.  Just pointing out that for most people, you can do pretty good work with benchtop models  (even cheaper benchtop models than the Bosch). 

When it comes to tables saws I fully agree that it's worth spending on the best model you can afford, but if you can't spend the $500 it's not game over.

[NiteWalker]

It's all good. I'm not trying to make it a Bosch Vs. Ridgid conversation either (I love bosch tools; have 6 of em); it's more of a benchtop vs full size thing. But again you're right, people have made great things with benchtop saws. Honestly one of the better benchtop models is the legendary Ryobi BT3100. If you can get a good deal on one, grab it.

It's also possible to get a good used contractor's saw for less than a new benchtop. The best choice is based on the needs of the buyer. FWIW, I outgrew a benchtop model in about a year.

[WaRpEd]

Hey
From your original post it sounds like you want to do some building on occasion and learn as you go.
I use my compound miter saw alot more than I do my table saw. I also use the saw guide that Rockler sells for strait cuts and with my router for making Dados.
I do have good sized workshop of around 14' by 24' but you can fill one up pretty fast with tools and benches and shelving.
My best advice is to plan ahead on what type of woodworking, cabinet making, woodturning, crafts etc. ( I do a lot  of cabinet making and not just MAME cabinets).
The point is you need tools suited to YOUR skill level and needs. Shelling out $500 for a tool you only use once or twice a year doesn't make sense IMHO. 

[ScottS]

Practically speaking, if you want to build plans from a magazine (Wood, Popular Woodworking, Fine Woodworking, etc) or a book, they generally all assume that you own a tablesaw and the instructions will be written with this tool in mind. If you know what you're doing, it's easy enough to adapt the plans to the tools you have on hand. If you're a beginner and want to follow along step by step...

[Rusty]

If you're still looking for the miter saw this looks like a pretty good deal.

Hitachi 10" sliding compound miter saw at Amazon for $299.

[fatfingers]

If you're still looking for the miter saw this looks like a pretty good deal.

Hitachi 10" sliding compound miter saw at Amazon for $299.

Thanks.  I saw that one, but I feel like $300 is too much as it seems there are other quality saws closer to the $200 mark?

[Rusty]

Thanks.  I saw that one, but I feel like $300 is too much as it seems there are other quality saws closer to the $200 mark?

[/quote]

Yes, you can find plenty of quality saws in the $200 range, but none of them will be sliders.  That's probably the cheapest I've seen for a 10" slider from a quality company.

[NiteWalker]

Indeed, that is an excellent price for an excellent sliding miter saw. Had I the need for one there'd be one on the way.

[kelemvor]

I'd also recommend a Table Saw if you can only buy one.

Anything you can do with a miter saw, you can do with a table saw with a fence/guide.  But you can't rip long pieces with a miter saw.  But a miter saw is far less expensive so if budget is an issue then you might go with that and use your circular saw with a board clamped to the piece to pretend it's a table saw.

[NiteWalker]

It really all boils down to your specific needs. For instance, I don't own a miter saw or a circular saw, but I do own a nice quality table saw (Delta 36-980) and 7 routers...

[fatfingers]

Indeed, that is an excellent price for an excellent sliding miter saw. Had I the need for one there'd be one on the way.

Oh, for some reason I didn't notice it was a slider...

Are they more difficult to use than standard compound miters???


Edit: Doh!  Back up to $500 now!!!

[NiteWalker]

No, they're better in most respects, the biggest advantage being increased cross cutting capacity. The only disadvantage (if you can even call it one) is that it requires more depth to set up (because of the sliding arm).

If I had to choose between a slider and a non slider, slider wins by KO first round.

[fatfingers]

OK, I have thought for a while on the subject now and have decided that I want to get a router and a compound miter saw.  Perhaps when I'm rich after buying those two I can think about a table saw.

So, the question becomes, which of these should I get?  I stopped at Lowe's today (because I want to take advantage of the 15% off plus the 10% off coupon from the Price Watch Thread) and looked at both routers and compound miter saws.  It appears that I can spend whatever I want.  Things that I think I need/want:


compound miter saw
10"
Lots (or enough) of those detent thingies they talk about


router
fixed and plunge base
1/4 and 1/2" collets


Some Compound Miter Saw links I have found:
Hitachi
Hitachi 2 (not really sure what the difference is)


Some Router links I have found:

Bosch
Porter Cable
DeWalt


It seems there was another Bosch router at the store (cheaper with two bases), but I don't see that on the site.

I am not absolutely sold that those are the ones I have to choose from, but I would be interested in what people thing about their quality/price/value.

Thanks!

[NiteWalker]

The compound miter saws I can't help much as I don't own one or have the need for one so I haven't researched them much.

The routers, however, are a different story.
I have both the Bosch and Dewalt kits you listed. I bypassed the porter cable kit as I feel it is too tall (which affects balance) to be a comfortable hand router. It's also overpriced compared to the other 2 kits.

Of the Bosch and Dewalt kits I favor the Dewalt. I've had the Bosch kit for over a year and the Dewalt kit for about 2 months now. Both are top shelf router kits, but the Dewalt has several advantages over the Bosch kit.

-Dust collection on the plunge base is better on the Dewalt.
-The plunging action is smoother.
-The router motor is a bit shorter making it more stable.
-The cord is detachable at the motor making it easier to unplug when changing bits (this at first seemed like an afterthought but is now one of my favorite features on the router).
-The Dewalt kit comes with clear sub-bases and an extra one for larger bits.
-It also comes with an excellent centering cone, very useful for template guide bushings.

Both are excellent kits though and you'll be happy with either. I'd rate the Bosch kit a 9.0 and the Dewalt a 9.5. In fact, I probably would have never even tried the Dewalt kit as I was content with the Bosch kit but Amazon put the kit you linked to on sale for $150. I couldn't resist.

One more thing, don't forget the Home Depot sale. If you spend $400 (not difficult with your two purchases) you get $75 off instantly. That may be a bit better than lowe's offering.

Good luck with your decision.

[DrewKaree]

On the miter saw, look for a laser line.  You'd be surprised how much nicer it makes things.  They make retrofit kits for 'em though, so don't let that rule out a saw you like, but make sure to look around to see if there's a laser you can add.  I see the Hitachi's you're looking at have 'em.

I've used a DeWalt 12" and a Milwaukee 10", and I own a Delta 10".  It's nice to have all the detents in the world, but keep in mind that they aren't necessarily spot-on, or if something happens to your saw, it might not line up with those detents any longer.

If I decide to replace/sell my Delta, I'd buy a DeWalt in a heartbeat. 

I like the handle setup of the DeWalt (which is identical to the Hitachi you're looking at), the attachments, table size, blade stop....I just like it.

[ScottS]

On the miter saw, look for a laser line.  You'd be surprised how much nicer it makes things.

If you think one laser line is nice, you'd love the TwinLaser setup that's featured on some Delta and Porter-Cable miter saws. I wouldn't have thought it make much of a difference, but after using it for a year I wouldn't want to be without it. My dry cut (= metal cutting) chop saw doesn't have any lasers and it's a real pain-in-the-neck...

As far as miter saws go, I prefer the increased accuracy of a 12" miter saw over the slightly longer cut capacity of a 10" slider.

[moriartyds]

Yeah, I hate on my mitre saw that the laser is only on the left side of the cut.  Real annoying at times.  There's probably an aftermarket twin laser that I can add somewhere, but if I was buying new I'd definitely look for that feature.