What fails on the Xbox 360's?

[Stobe]

I made the mistake of reading a few pages of a thread in the xbox.com forums about something like... "Dead 360?  Post your Manufactured Date"

It seemed as if the average lifespan for the 360's listed in this thread was around 6 months!  And some admitted that they had very little playtime on them.  And there seemed to be no rhyme or reason to the manufactured date relating to the failure (meaning, all the 360's listed were not just the old ones with heat issues).

So what is failing on these things?  And is it fixable?  What kind of warranty does MS offer on the units.  And what happens if you buy a used one.  Are you just screwed?

Am I weird for being a little paranoid after seeing this thread, which had several hundred posts??

-Stobe

[SirPoonga]

I think it is a little paranoia.  People aren't going to post in those thread if their 360 is working.  I heard Microsoft doesn't need a receipt for replacements.  The manufacture date is on the console.

I have a 360 with a man. date of Dec 14th 2005 and haven't had any issues.

[tetsu96]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there's NOT a mftg problem with the units.

I thought it was hoopla when I read those threads before getting my 360.  Lasted about 9 months before the DVD rom went tits up (sounded like some mechanical issue occurred while playing a game, then it wouldn't read discs anymore...  at least it wasn't the ring of death).

I didn't go through 7 or 11 of the units like some people that post on those threads, but the mftg date on my old one was 2/06.  Got a replacement dated 1/06, was hoping for the new BenQ drive with it but no such luck.  I'll cross my fingers and hope it doesn't die again.

[Stobe]

Do a simple search for "Three red lights" and you'll find thousands of people having the same problem.  And MS is insisting on $130 to repair the problem.  All the same "Internal Error".  And that's what I'm wondering about.  What is failing?

I've heard several people wrapping the innerds in a towel to heat it up, then cooling it back down to fix the problem.  Some people simply give it a "smack"  (my personal favorite).  The date span of these posts ranges over the last year and a half.  Microsoft should have figured out whats happening by now.  But even people who have returned theirs for repair two times already, are still having their new replacement untis fail as well.

I'm glad, SirPoonga that you have had luck with yours, though.

-Stobe

[Tahnok]

Reminds me of the problems they had with the original xbox. A ton of the originals, my own included, started to have their disk drives die. More and more games wouldn't boot the first try. Seeing this thread only gives me less interest in the 360. I would have thought that MS would have figured out how to make their console more reliable, or at least not totally break in large numbers.

[tetsu96]

Some people simply give it a "smack"  (my personal favorite).

That's a valid troubleshooting technique which probably all of us have used for years with various computer and console equipment.  Even when it didn't work, it always made you feel better.

Though...  I do have 1 old server with a bootprint permenantly marking it...

[SirPoonga]

Do a simple search for "Three red lights" and you'll find thousands of people having the same problem.  And MS is insisting on $130 to repair the problem.  All the same "Internal Error".  And that's what I'm wondering about.  What is failing?

Only if it is out of warranty.  The 360 has a 1 year warranty.

I don't see that many people having problems.  Even if it is thousands that's still a small percentage of the over 10 million units out there.

My coworker got his 360 on the same day as me and haven't had problems either.  People that have problems are going to speak up more than people who don't which is why I think some people think there is a major problem with 360s.

I've had bad memory and hard drives before.  There are manufacturing defects in products.  You can't make something perfect every time.

It's just like the Ipod Nano issues.  Only a small percentage of them had a screen that cracked easily but it got press coverage everywhere.

But even people who have returned theirs for repair two times already, are still having their new replacement untis fail as well.

This is because Microsoft is being stupid.  Microsoft doesn't send you a new replacement, they send you a refurbished unit.  So it was a unit that was defective at one point.  I think those units are prone to fail more often than a new unit.

[tetsu96]

I don't see that many people having problems.  Even if it is thousands that's still a small percentage of the over 10 million units out there.

My coworker got his 360 on the same day as me and haven't had problems either.  People that have problems are going to speak up more than people who don't which is why I think some people think there is a major problem with 360s.

Neither you, or myself, can really speak to the experiences of people at large with 360's.  Yes, bad news and press tends to make more noise, but if we only have a sample rate of maybe 5-15 people we know personally that have xboxes (or less), then we don't have a large enough sample pool to determine percentages.  And the companies that do probably won't disclose those numbers, especialy if they're that bad.

I can't say that everyone has problems with their xbox, or will.  I can't say if the people who have had 11 replacements are smoking crack and jumping on their 360's (though it sounds likely).  If yours and your friends are still going well, then more power to you both.

But the 360 IS the first console I've had die on me.  I would think that 9 months is long enough to get past that initial burn in / failure rate assuming moderate useage (and it is only moderate in my case).

And as far as using the Nano as a comparison - wasn't it the case that Apple started shipping with a different screen BECAUSE people were scratching theirs on the initial units?

[versapak]

I personally have a launch 360 (though it was purchased in early Febraury, not November launch), and it is still alive and kicking. It gets played every day, and is left on often for multiple days straight.


That being said, I have quite a few people on my friends list that have not been so fortunate.



There is definitely not ever going to be praises sung about the 360's supreme quality of craftsmanship.

[northerngames]

it was the main cpu overheating becuase of a cheap foil under the heatsink most would get the red light from this and use a heatgun to fix them sometime's it work's sometime's it does not but any of the origanal's that came out first should have the heatsink removed and the foil underneith replaced with arcticsilver paste or simiar to prevent it from even starting that.

[versapak]

Well...

This thread, or my post in it, no doubt jinxed me, because now my launch 360 is DEAD.


I dunno, but I am seriously thinking the 360, as much as I love it, is going to go down as the poorest built console in history.


[EDIT]

Fixed typo, and chucked in a couple commas for good measure.

[hypernova]

it was the main cpu overheating becuase of a cheap foil under the heatsink most would get the red light from this and use a heatgun to fix them sometime's it work's sometime's it does not but any of the origanal's that came out first should have the heatsink removed and the foil underneith replaced with arcticsilver paste or simiar to prevent it from even starting that.

When anyone else reads posts without punctuation, does it give you the feeling that the author is on speed or something?

This thread on my post in it no doubt jinxed me, because now my launch 360 is DEAD.

Sounds logical to me.   Good luck!

[northerngames]

I alway's been bad a littature you should see my handwriting lol

[geomartin]

I must be the luckiest gamer alive!  I have never had a home console system fail!  I still have my original 2600 and Intellivision from childhood.  Original working systems I bought new and still own: 2600, Intellivision, NES, Genesis, Gameboy, Gameboy Color, Gameboy SP, Dreamcast, N64, X-Box, and X-Box 360.

[versapak]

I must be the luckiest gamer alive!  I have never had a home console system fail!  I still have my original 2600 and Intellivision from childhood.  Original working systems I bought new and still own: 2600, Intellivision, NES, Genesis, Gameboy, Gameboy Color, Gameboy SP, Dreamcast, N64, X-Box, and X-Box 360.

Famous last words.

[ChadTower]

Or his "working" standard is really low.  That NES is a tough one to believe unless it was barely used.

[geomartin]

I wouldn't say I have low standards or that these were hardly used.  The NES and Genesis haven't been used recently, but they always functioned perfectly.  I think some of it may be due to the fact that I regularly cleaned the cartridge contacts back then, and I did not constantly move these from one t.v. to another.  I remember a lot of my friends packing their systems up and taking them to friends  and such.  Mine basically stayed hooked up to the same t.v. all the time.  The t.v., a 27 inch RCA console just recently died when my wife watered a houseplant on top of the tv, and the tv as well.  The NES ran in 10-12 hour stretches when I first got the Mario/Duckhunt cart.  I also played Super Tecmo Bowl through several times.  I bought it new when I was in college and later my wife and sons logged plenty of hours as well.  It was retired when my wife got hooked on "Castle of Illusion" for Genesis.  The 360 has seen daily use from my teenage sons since I bought it a few months after launch.  My wife did remind me that my original Dreamcast was defective from the box, I exchanged it the same day I bought it and it has been trouble free since then.  I use the Dreamast in an arcade cabinet with a VGA adaptor and X-Arcade joystick.  My guess is that the people who dumped their systems in a backpack and bounced them through the neighborhood on their bicycle probably have higher failure rates then someone like me.  As far as hardly used, video games have been a constant pastime for me since I dropped a quarter in the Armor Attack game that was at the local pizza parlor in my youth.
 
 
 

[KenToad]

I'm guessing you didn't trade games very often or rent much either, not to mention letting anyone but yourself insert/remove game carts.  Anyway, you're right to count yourself lucky for having so many well-functioning units.   

[geomartin]

I have never rented a game, I have bought used games, but only for dreamcast and later, i.e. not carts.  I just always treated my consoles very well, as I had to save up my own money to buy them.  My parents were pretty much anti-video game at Christmas etc.

[btp2k2]

Or his "working" standard is really low.  That NES is a tough one to believe unless it was barely used.

I would say the Dreamcast is a tougher sale....I have two DCs that are in constant rotation....one is working while the other is on the work bench...Those things were twitchy. Luckily, Sega had the foresight to make them easy to work on yourself.

[geomartin]

Well, I only claimed to be lucky   I'm surprised it's so hard to believe that these system last so long.  You can go to almost any flea market and find a working 2600, NES, or SNES.

[btp2k2]

I'll say! Mind coming over and rubbing some of that Console magic on my Dreamcasts? I am getting tired of fixing em

[SirPoonga]

Guess I am lucky too.  Never had a problem with my dreamcast and it still gets play.
My nes has been dropped down stairs several times too.

[ChadTower]

I've had about ten Dreamcasts and never seen one wonky, mostly bought at yard sales and looking like they were used as soccer balls.

On the other hand, I have found and tried to rehab about 25 NES, and never once gotten one back to original working order, even with pin rebending, contact cleaning, connector replacement, you name it I've done it short of a custom hacked connector.

[btp2k2]

I've had about ten Dreamcasts and never seen one wonky, mostly bought at yard sales and looking like they were used as soccer balls.

Well, compared to the 1 Genesis/Sega CD that I still have, the 1 first gen Saturn and 1 Master System that still works, the 2 Dreamcasts get repaired quite a lot.

That said, they are always minor repairs....One common thing is the system shutting down during a long gameplay session. The coupling for  the power cable for the fan would come loose. Simply take apart the system and bend the pins forward a bit to make a snugger connection and presto...no more turn off problem. Then the other common issue is the laser going out of alignment. It seems this is mostly caused from playing CDRs cause the laser is scanning more. So, you can either avoid playing homebrews or be prepared to adjust your laser every 4 or 5 months. I rather enjoy the Quake port, so I find myself adjusting the laser

[ChadTower]

The Sega CD is hard to find working... so big and wonky, they always need repair in some way if you find one at all.

The Genesis... man, you can't go to a yard sale without someone throwing one at you... then when you duck, it flies past you, falls in the pool, gets chomped by a gator and then thrown in traffic... you bring it home, wipe it off, and it fires right up.  Any version of the Genesis.

[btp2k2]

The Genesis is the VW Bug of gaming!

[crashwg]

But back on topic of the 360 and it's problems...

I read recently that there was some flexing problem with it.  Something about heat causing the MOBO to flex which would cause the failure of the console.  I don't recall seeing what exactly happens when it flexes but it seems to me that the only way to solve the problem is to be pro-active and cool that S.O.B. before the problem occurs.

[ChadTower]

Add an intake fan, for sure, to whatever exhaust fan is in that case.

[SirPoonga]

If you want to keep the 360 cool

1) Keep the power supply away from it.  That eliminates one source of warm air.
2) Make sure all vents are not covered.

If you don't care about warranty
3) Get the WhisperFan replacement.  It's suppose to be quiter and push about twice as much air.
4) Had a 120mm fan, you will see examples in case mods and hacking sites.
5) Water cool it?  Someone was able to put a whole water cooling system in the 360, that's amazing.
6) CAREFULLY take the heatsinks off, clean up the heat sink compound, and replace with arctic silver compound.
7) Some people have had luck with changing the air flow by using aluminum foil and cardboard.

Also, for some reason, changing its orientation helps some people.  For some reason, my 360 runs quieter in the horizontal position.  I heard for some people it runs better in vertical.

[ChadTower]

Why on earth would you use aluminum foil to direct air right aboard a PCB?  A piece blows off and falls on the motherboard and it could be toast.

[geomartin]

I agree that foil and cardboard sound like a bad way to go.  I remember seeing the watercooled 360 linked to an article on Retroblast.  The guy created a custom laptop case, complete with keyboard, and screen and dumped a 360 in it.  As I recall, you could replace the entire 360 unit for what he paid for the water cooling setup.  The other ideas sound reasonable once your warranty expires.

[geomartin]

Below is a link to the X-Box 360 laptop.  It's a very interesting read!

http://benheck.com/Games/Xbox360/x360_page_1.htm

[ChadTower]

Ben Heckendorn is awesome.

[geomartin]

I agree, I have access to all the CNC equipment that he has.  I just don't have the amount of dedication, creativity or spare time required to pull it off. 

[ChadTower]

I've been reading through his console hacking book recently.  Great stuff, very interesting to see it in such detail.

[SirPoonga]

Why on earth would you use aluminum foil to direct air right aboard a PCB?  A piece blows off and falls on the motherboard and it could be toast.

From what I remember you cover 1/3rd of the cpu heatsink near the duct and the air flow over the heatsink is better.

Found it.
http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/mods/360-12V-fan-Mod.htm

Also this article is interesting.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2066860,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532