What is the most used Mame set-up, I want to test our Nieman Monitors

[Rickn]

I am looking for some help...
 
Here is the scoop, I do not know much about Mame, but want to test my monitors so I can improve them.
 
I was about to post on the forum, but would like to bounce this off you, here is what I am looking for:
 
I have downloaded Powerstrip 3.73- is this the most popular method??

I will study the powerstrip write-up, any other suggestions, by the way I loaded it to my laptop and do not see anyway to access the advanced setting that allow changes to timing like front porch, back porch, sync...

Do most people use powerstrip to emulate native resolution or force it to their monitor?

In the case of our tri-res, would people just use VGA or allow the game o switch between standard, mid and vga, and the monitor would autoswitch?

I am going to purchase hardware, PC, video card, etc.. any suggestions on what is needed?

Where can I find or is their actual Mame software- is it similar to power strip, or does it do the games.

Do I need both Mame and Power strip??

Is there any non-copywrite - free-ware games I can download to test?

Has anyone used our Nieman Video Displays monitors for Mame?? Any feedback is appreciated "Good things found" are nice to hear but problems are opportunities to get better.
Any thoughts on above - greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks
 
Rick Nieman
Nieman Video Displays
Rick@Niemandisplays.com
519-621-1722 Toll free 866-747-4002

[NickG]

If you download and burn the advancemame cd image here:


http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/cd-readme.html

and boot from it you should be able to test many modelines for your monitors with a built in utility, advv,  and also test some of them with the three legal MAME ROM images included.

[StephenH]

Here are some things I would obtain:

1) ArcadeVGA Card:  go to www.ultimarc.com

2) J-PAC: www.ultimarc.com

2) Download MAME from www.mame.net

3) Download AdvanceMAME from advancemame.sourceforge.net (This version is built for Arcade Monitors)

4) Do a test with an Act Labs USB Lightgun - www.actlabs.net

[Rickn]

Thanks Guys, please keep the suggestions coming.

Rick

[Aurich]

The way I'm setting up my new cab that I'm interested in one of your monitors for is pretty straightforward:

Vertically oriented monitor, 24.8" tri-res.

ArcadeVGA card from Ultimarc and Windows XP.

I'll be running the front end (and Windows when needed) at 640x480 (well, 480x640 really since it's vertical, using iRotate to handle that part).

Actual games will be at arcade native resolutions driven by the ArcadeVGA once a game is loaded. So it could be something like 240x320, or 224x288, etc.

[Rickn]

Hi Aurich, by the way, when you order your monitor please remind me about the vertical orientation.
This is extremely important to the picture tube as the earths magnetic field plays havoc on the set-up.

I would prefer to customize the set-up for you to avoid potential problems with purity.

A lot of my competition would not care or even understand- might even get away with it- but we are a bit of a perfectionist..


Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com
519-621-1722

[Aurich]

Hi Aurich, by the way, when you order your monitor please remind me about the vertical orientation.
This is extremely important to the picture tube as the earths magnetic field plays havoc on the set-up.

I would prefer to customize the set-up for you to avoid potential problems with purity.

A lot of my competition would not care or even understand- might even get away with it- but we are a bit of a perfectionist..

Oh I won't, your attention to detail in our previous conversation is what convinced me that you were my source, I doubt many other companies care about individuals like me.

[dynamite]

Hey Rick, one question or request about your monitors. I read somewhere that your tri-syncs are max 640 x 480 res. Is this true and if so are there any plans of increasing to at least 800 x 600?? I know that for mame it doesn't really matter but for our frontends we like the highest res we can get (or I'd like it anyway).
btw, I've checked your website and apparently you're located just on the other side of town  from me so with the no shipping charges and the great feedback so far I'll prolly be talking to you soon about picking one up 

[Kaytrim]

Rick,

You might want to check out the few that setup a rotating monitor in their cabs.  One thing that they have to deal with is degaussing the display each time it is rotated.  I would also like to see larger resolutions on the VGA connections.  It would be nice to see prices and order capabilities on your website. 

TTFN, 
Kaytrim

[Rickn]

Few things-

Yes, degaussing is needed everytime you change the orientation of the tube.

Not just Horizontal to vertical orientation but also North, South, East, West.

Most of this is taken care of by the autodegauss cicuit in the monitor. completely power down the monitor for 30 minutes ( this allows a thermistor in the autodegauss circuit to coll down) then power up again.

Generally speaking a worst case situation is the need to repeat up to 5 times. Larger the tube such as 39" an actual hand degauss may be required.

Right now we do not have a "Quad res" in other words CGA, MID, VGA and SVGA. This is a lot of stress on the horizontal circuit as the inductance of the yoke for each frtequency is different.

This can be a huge reliability issue- just look at some of our competition.\

As far as switching on the fly goes, our tri-res can handle most situations like this, however it requires the monitor to switch various relays in and out to match impedances.
If you experience pulsing, clicking etc when changing, then your signal has some out of "Perfect" parameters- try to avoid this as it may cause problems?

Higher Resoutions, we have a 27" that does 640X480 (31Khz), 800X600 (35.5/38 khz) as well as 1024x768 (48Khz)

Hope this helps.

Rick Nieman
Rick@Niemandisplays.com

[Kaytrim]

A 27" that handles 1024x768!?!    I bet that little beauty costs a pretty penny.  Is that at VGA and something that a normal video card can work with?  I am thinking that would be a sweet monitor.  Personally I don't plan on using the native game resolutions so switching frequencies wouldn't be an issue for me.  I would want something that would show computer applications legibly.   Basically a huge computer screen.  21" is the biggest that I have seen a computer monitor and that had a resolution of 1600x1200 @ 85hz.

If you had a larger CRT that could handle the larger resolutions like that, FPS games would be da bomb on a cab.  I can see it now Doom 3 on a 29" screen.   Talk about getting immersed in a game. 

[StephenH]

Rick,

I hear that one of your competitors, Billabs makes a 27" that goes anywhere from 15Khz all the way up to 50Khz.  This allows it to run at CGA, EGA, VGA, SVGA, and XGA res.    In fact, it can handle a Windows desktop at 1024x768 while at the same time arcade res.    From what I have heard, they are pretty reliable at this, too.   I wonder how Billabs is able to do this reliably in terms of component stress.

Stephen

[ahofle]

I 2nd the suggestion to get an ArcadeVGA and try out the monitor in MAME.  It makes things much easier for you than using Powerstrip. 
Question about the max resolution.  Does this mean you cannot run 800x600 in interlaced mode on the monitor?  I know the ArcadeVGA is supposed to allow 800x600 on normal arcade monitors in interlaced mode:

http://ultimarc.com/avgainf.html

[Rickn]

Thanks Andy,

No the Tri-res is designed for the majority of the current arcade game use, will not do 800X600.

We have a 27" that will do all that.

believe it or not, I actually sell more of our 27" CGA only monitor than even the Tri-res.

Mainly to replacement and manufacturers...

I will be gone for the next week on vacation and I am sure will be swamped on return, but I do appreciate everyone's comments.

Thanks Rick

[StephenH]

Rick,

Running 800x600 in INTERLACED mode should be possible on any Standard-Res monitor.  Interlace sends the odd and even lines separately, and flashes them accordingly, which takes half the Khz.   In fact, the ArcadeVGA can output this mode on any regular arcade monitor.   Interlacing makes small text unreadable, but most larger type and game graphics do OK with it.

What you need 38Khz to do, is to run NON-INTERLACED at 800x600.

Stephen

[Rickn]

Hi Stephen, our 3827 actualy does upto 1024X768, but does not go below 31khz.

Rick

[horseboy]

Hey Rick, I can't find any kind of price list on your site. Am I just missing it? 

[Crax]

Hey Rick, I can't find any kind of price list on your site. Am I just missing it? 

I can't find anything either for prices

[JoeB]

I believe Rick is currently away on vacation.  Last I spoke to him, he didn't feel comfortable putting prices on his web site.  It all depends or order size, where you're located, what you want, etc.

Plus, he doesn't want to be the #1 competitor for his resellers.

Best thing to do is pick up the phone and call him directly.  That's what I did.  Great guy to talk to!

[Aurich]

I just saw him post yesterday I think, so he may be back if you want to e-mail him. I need to get my damn taxes to my CPA so I can figure out if I can afford to give Rick my own phone call. 

Edit: Duh, the post in question is just a few up from this. 

[shorthair]

Yeah, he's back.  (I'd been emailing with him some weeks ago, and forgot he was going to be away.) Had email conversation with him, yesterday.  Aside from Randy, and I don't know how he has time to, most of the big vendors are busy, or course.  Best to email or call.

[Rickn]

Hi Guys- yes I am back from vacation, may be still a little brain dead but none the less here.

Yes I do not always get time to check the forum, so it is always best to e-mail me direct if it is urgent.

Call me toll free 866-747-4002.

I will do my best to help.

Yes, my website is out of date, I have been working to update it but it will not have price lists.

As per the previous post, pricing is based on location (shipping...) volume and yes I will try to hook you up with one of my distributors.

Yes I know that for a few of you guys this is a hobby, a passion and unfortunetately the wife has a tighter hold on your wallet than you have... but we will do our best.

Please keep in mind they buy in skid qty's, and should be able to do better than my one off pricing ( transportation handling etc.)

Having said this we will give direct support which we think is econd to none!!

Thanks again

Rick Nieman
Rick@Niemandisplays.com

[Silver]

I am looking for some help...
 
Here is the scoop, I do not know much about Mame, but want to test my monitors so I can improve them.
 
I was about to post on the forum, but would like to bounce this off you, here is what I am looking for:
 
I have downloaded Powerstrip 3.73- is this the most popular method??

Probably not the most popular, as it the most fiddly/time consuming to setup. Powerstrip is a very powerful tool, but what it can do is limited by the capabilities of your gfx card. I would guess the most popular method is buying an ArcadeVGA card. Thats a guess though.

I will study the powerstrip write-up, any other suggestions, by the way I loaded it to my laptop and do not see anyway to access the advanced setting that allow changes to timing like front porch, back porch, sync...

The writeup (look on the BYOACwiki too) is not perfect, but covers the basics last time I looked. There is an "Advanced Settings" button in powerstrip - if this button is "greyed out" it usually means powerstrip does not fully support your graphics card. Note that it does not properly support the ArcadeVGA (but if you have an ArcadeVGA you don't need powerstrip).

Also note that to use the features of Powerstrip to create a series of custom resolutions requires a gfx card that supports custom resolutions. There are also a couple of windows 'gotchyas' - e.g. 320x240 is a native arcade resolution, but it is also a something called a "double-scanned" resolution in windows - essentially it means that in windows it automatically displays this at 120Hz refresh rate (31Khz) even when you tell it to display at 60Hz vertical refresh.

Do most people use powerstrip to emulate native resolution or force it to their monitor?

Not 100% sure I understand you here. Powerstrip would typically be used to force a graphics card to output 15Khz arcade native resolution from windows to work on a RGB 15Khz monitor.

In the case of our tri-res, would people just use VGA or allow the game o switch between standard, mid and vga, and the monitor would autoswitch?

I think that most people who seek out 'tri-res' monitors (or any monitors that support 15/24/31+Khz hsync) are looking for a solution that allows them to switch on-the-fly (i.e. automatically). Otherwise its easier to just get either a 15Khz or 31Khz monitor and force all games to output to that resolution.

Mame is quite capable of forcing any game to display at any resolution that is available to windows. ArcadeVGA/Powerstrip are ways of making native arcade resolutions available to windows, and thus to mame.

I've played with an old NEC XM monitor that supports 15Khz - 50Khz via a single input (i.e. everything up to 1024x768@60Hz).  It's the type of monitor that works well for mame/aracde stuff as you can run windows normally, run native resolutions, or plug in a jamma board no problems. Those monitors cost an absolute fortune new, and can be hard to come by now.

I am going to purchase hardware, PC, video card, etc.. any suggestions on what is needed?

Where can I find or is their actual Mame software- is it similar to power strip, or does it do the games.

Do I need both Mame and Power strip??

ArcadeVGA could well be useful to test with as it will output all these aracde standard resolutions easily with minimal messing by you (you don't need powerstrip at all). Also the newer models take multi-frequency monitors into account and it also has (I believe - I've not used one) 24Khz modes, as well as 31Khz VGA output.

[Pac-Fan]

ArcadeVGA has a finite (and small) subset of arcade modes available. It's primary purpose is to provide some of the most common resolutions (not necessarily refresh rates) and make them available to dos/windows. Regular Dos or Windows based Mame will then pick the best mode from those available and display accordingly using whatever graphics stretching modes available to make it best fill the screen. The core advantage of AVGA is -zero- configuration, and all DOS and Windows output to be displayable, albiet imperfectly, in the 15.75 KHz range. However this causes the biggest drawback -- inability to tweak each mode to resize, recenter and especially resync to slightly different ranges.

AdvanceMame on the otherhand, allows users to contol each parameter down to the smallest setting to exactly (or very closely) match the original arcade board outputs. This is important since each and every game used slightly different settings. I think there are over 400 Resoultion+refresh rate combinations in Mame aren't there?  The problem with this however is that you can spend months tweaking settings for all the games, and then have to go back and update because you had to slightly recenter a monitor for one game to get it to use the right setting, then have to update the others you already set up to to the control adjustment or switch cabinets and monitors you were using that cause a slight difference in output compatibility.  The biggest advantage is that you don't get side effects of jumpy scrolling caused when the refresh rates don't match the game.

Each has benefits and each has disadvantages. If you want to make a monitor that makes everyone happy--good luck!  Plus AdvanceMame is no longer being updated and with the massive video generation rewrite of mame a few releases back, it's doubtful if anyone will continue on with perfect arcade video output. But if you're concerned about supporting everything, you need to include it in your tests and ensure you can run each game at the original resolution and refresh rate correctly

[Silver]

I gave up attempting to get Advancemame working on any modern non-linux system ages ago. (This includes the boot-CD)

It's great if you have a decade old trident gfx card and use dos/linux, but it's windows based hardware support is staggeringly poor and buggy.

However, yes with the correct hardware and OS its very impressive, but I usually prefer to not have to buy all my hardware and select my OS simply to suit one program.