Author Topic: D9200 config in advancemame?? (Read 5154 times)

seaner · « **on:** April 03, 2003, 09:57:25 pm »

I have my new D9200 up and going in my cab now.. here's the problem I'm having:

I ran advcfg to set up my video modes and the saved them.
If I run advcfg again, it seems that my 15KHz settings remain, but my 31.5KHz settings are reset back to the initial calibration settings. Has anyone had this problem? I've checked my modelines and they definitely change between runs of advcfg. I find the same problem with advv.
Has anyone deciphered the modeline values from advmame.rc? I would manually enter them, but can't quite figure out what sort of conversion is being performed when the modelines are saved.
On a related note, anyone have an advmenu.rc file set up to go with D9200? (or advmame.rc for that matter as well?)

Cheers,
Sean

Wade · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2003, 09:30:16 am »

Let me know if you get this fully set up. I couldn't even get advcfg to run without bombing. Same thing for advancemame.

I ended up just doing mame "omname -monitor arcade" and it worked just fine and ran at 15khz on all the classics I tried.

Wade

seaner · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2003, 02:07:43 pm »

Quote from: Wade on April 04, 2003, 09:30:16 am

Let me know if you get this fully set up. I couldn't even get advcfg to run without bombing. Same thing for advancemame.

I ended up just doing mame "omname -monitor arcade" and it worked just fine and ran at 15khz on all the classics I tried.

Wade

Which OS and build are you running? I have had experiences with advcfg/advv/advmenu (and probably advmame too) core dumping on me in dos at times. I've got a large majority of games working with decent sizing/centering, but there are some that I haven't tried tweaking yet.
For the record, I just used the remote controls on the D9200 to center/stretch the screen until I was happy.. I have a feeling this monitor remembers these settings across resets and for different video modes. I haven't verified this though.
Anyways, I've only had the monitor hooked up for a total of about an hour, so I haven't exhaustively configured or tweaked anything yet. That's what the weekend is for! (that and painting).

scooter · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2003, 11:14:44 pm »

You could try the following links, although I have not had any luck with them myself. They are specifically for a D9200 monitor.

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/advmame.htm
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/advmenu.htm

I am having touble with my video after escaping out of a game. My desktop/menu is really hosed--to the point of not being readable/usable. I am using XP in 800x600 res. Any ideas?

-Scooter

Wade · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:30:54 am »

Seaner,

I'm using Windows 95 but I have the same problem with advmame whether I'm in true DOS (my usual setup with my front end) or in a Windows DOS prompt.

I might try those setups at easymamecab some time in the future. I have a few more important things to do right now though (new PC will arrive in a day or two, and I need to get my trackball working).

Wade

seaner · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2003, 12:01:41 pm »

I've started a thread on the advancemame-users list about the stability issues we've been seeing. I suspect it's probably related to the build done with gcc 3.2.2. I'ev never fully trusted the 3.x releases, so I rebuilt 0.66 with gcc-2.95.3 under DOS last night.. I'll let you know if it works any better when I get home tonight. (I ran advcfg on my build machine which is a t-bird 900 and I couldn't crash it).

-and thanks for the link scooter, I'll check that out.

Cheers,
Sean

seaner · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:57:06 pm »

FYI,
The 2.95.3 recompile of advancemame-0.66 didn't fare any better in the cabinet. From feedback on the advancemame-users list, it sounds like svgalib has some personality problems when talking to rage 128 chipsets.. I'm starting to believe this, as I can't seem to crash it on my desktop.

Wade · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2003, 11:42:01 am »

Why don't I swap in another vga card and see if it changes anything with the crashing. I have a couple extras laying around.

Wade

seaner · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2003, 01:28:09 pm »

I'm going to try the same thing with my geforce2 tonight. I'll keep you posted. Barring that, I'm going to try a final recompile with no optimizations on svgalib. Painful.. the cabinet is almost all painted.. just pesky software issues remain.

Wade · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2003, 02:15:17 pm »

There will always be software issues...

Wade

desmatic · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2003, 08:12:37 pm »

I've uploaded a newer version of EasyCab to my site. It will automatically setup AdvanceMAME with AdvanceMENU (or arcadeos) to run perfectly on a D9200. The timings used are aggressive, but do allow for perfect emulation. All you need to do is download the iso, burn it to disk, reboot your computer and follow the directions given. When you have finished your setup, simply center your games using ONLY your monitor controls. Do NOT run the advcfg.exe or advv.exe utility. All the appropriate files are configured and installed. Report problems to this board. I promise to check back frequently over the next couple of days. A lot of people now seem to have D9200s so I figure if a few figure out how to make theirs run properly with AdvanceMAME the knowledge will spread.

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/

Wade · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2003, 08:59:25 am »

I downloaded this new version of Easycab but I probably won't get to try it for a few days at the soonest. My new PC is arriving today or tomorrow and I need to reassemble my control panel (I just cut a new one yesterday). Maybe this weekend.

Wade

Mudslide03 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2003, 09:21:12 am »

desmatic, what about us NTFS users?

desmatic · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2003, 01:02:12 pm »

Right now NT support in AdvanceMAME is highly experimental. So if you want to use a modern OS, use Linux. If you have a fat32 partition you can also store all your files on it and use a bootup floppy / CD -- this setup works great for those that only want to use Windows 2000 / XP. Obviously, any dual boot setup will work fine as well. If you're upset about Windows XP and AdvanceMAME, I sugguest you email the responsible party, namely, Microsoft. If I recall correctly, the email address was: suggestions@null.microsoft.com

BTW, Red Hat 9.0 just came out this week.
http://www.redhat.com/download/mirror.html

Wade · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2003, 08:59:40 am »

Guess what Seaner? I took my pc out of my cab last night because all the new parts had arrived. I wasn't using the ATI card any more like I thought I was... it was a Trident 9680! So there goes the ATI chipset crashing advancemame theory, didn't even have to swap hardware to test it.

Wade

seaner · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2003, 11:41:45 am »

Thanks for the update Wade.
I swapped in my Geforce2, and couldn't make it crash by the way.. so I still suspect the rage128 svgalib support.
The problem with the geforce2 was that it was generating "out of range" or "no signal" pictures for most of the 15/25khz modes with low resolutions.
I'm goping to have a go with a matrox g450 or something similar next.. failing that, perhaps a radeon... but I'm fairly sure that my video card is to blame

All of the logs point to segmentation violation in the video code.

desmatic · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2003, 12:02:17 pm »

If your lower 15kHz resolutions aren't working, increase your pclock from 5 to something higher. For example, instead of the default 5-90 use something like 8-90, or 10-90. As far as the Rage128 thing, who the hell knows. I got a Rage128 card that works perfectly, but there are about 150 different models of this card. Some models work perfectly, some don't work at all, and some only work if the moon is in alighnment with pluto. Not to mention rage128 cards don't work predictably well with Windows 2000 or Linux.

I'd be interested in hearing how well your g450 works. The g400 requires a pclock of 6 or higher. So if some lower resolutions on your g450 give you probs, test it at higher pclock.

Also note, that the D9200 settings in the advcfg.exe utility are wrong. So if you get an "out of freqency" make sure it's not your d9200 configuration.

The following horizontal frequencies will always work on the D9200
15.75, 25, 31.5

seaner · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2003, 02:30:04 pm »

Thanks for the tips Desmatic.
I was trying to manually crank up the pclock in advv one step at a time, but it didn't occur to me to restrict it in the config explicitly. I'll give that a shot!
I'm going to try out an S3 virge/DX tonight, and a coworker is lending me a G400 to test out as well.
I agree with you on your point that not all rage128 cards are created equal, judging by the amount of success the majority of people have had.

Cheers,
Sean

seaner · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2003, 12:43:18 pm »

I AM FINALLY HAPPY!

So after:
- ATI Xpert 2000 - random SIGSEGVs
- ASUS V7700/GTS GeForce2 - most low-freq modes out of range
- ATI Mach64 2MB - laughable.. can't do nonstandard modes
- S3 Virge/DX - occasionally hard locks the machine
- another ATI Mach64 - similar problems as previous mach64
- Matrox G400 - perfection!

Luckily a coworker was willing to swap his G400 for the ATI Xpert 2000 I bought

desmatic · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2003, 03:08:02 pm »

Ya, the G400 is one of the absolute best video cards for MAME. It only has one minor flaw -- exiting AdvanceMAME to a 15kHz command line crashes the system. Aside from that minor anoyance, it offers incredible performance and compatibility. Unlike Trident's Blade T64, the Matrox G400 works unbelievably well with Windows MAME, better than most modern, expensive 3D cards.

If you use the config file created by easycab or just use my AdvanceMAME re file, you should have perfect emulation for all horizontal games, something only the D9200 can do.

Wade · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2003, 09:06:44 am »

I just thought I'd follow up on this.

Last night I tried "mame romname -monitor arcade" again, just to see if it would work with mame 0.67 (because I had been using 0.36 and I thought the feature might have been dropped). It still works! Maybe this is a DOS-only feature?

Wade

mwinter77 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2003, 12:13:29 pm »

Yes, I figured out it is a DOS mame only feature which for me makes it useless as 1) I don't wan't to be restricted only to dos, and 2) the DOS version isn't generally kept up to date like the others.

On another note have people had the same success with the G450 as the G400 with the D9200 etc ? How about the 550's ?

I have an old geforce 256 that I have now come to the conclusion will not do 15khz. Also a new radeon 9700 that won't do these modes either. So I think I am going with matrox for my cab but would like to get the most 'current' card that will work

Wade · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2003, 01:06:10 pm »

mwinter77,

I can't comment on #2, but I have to object to #1. You say that you don't want to be "restricted" to using dos. Using the Dos version of mame allows you to play mame in DOS or windows, as far as I know (I have never ran into any problems using the DOS exe while in windows). However, using windows mame restricts you to only being able to play in windows. I'm not arguing whether you should run mame in windows or not though, that is a personal decision and clearly there are people who prefer each method.

Also, if you aren't sure you want to run 15khz, you might just want to try it with the DOS exe first, before going through the trouble of buying or trying more video cards, just to see if you like it.

Personally, I'm not sure why this is such a commonly discussed topic. I have run mame at 15khz a few times, but honestly the picture is much easier on my eyes when I let mame use vga modes so that's what I normally use. And the appearance is still "authentic" enough that it fools me and everyone else who has seen it. Every game I have run has looked awesome and hasn't required any manual tweaking at all. IMO it seems like some people are going through a lot of trouble for nothing.

Wade

desmatic · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2003, 08:42:09 pm »

You're right 31kHz modes look better. But that's because there is NO advantage to running DOS MAME at 15kHz on a D9200.

The fastest video card that works flawlessly with AdvanceMAME on a D9200 is a Retail, Built by ATI, Radeon 7500 All-In-Wonder.

IMHO, it hardly seems worth spending $750 to run Windows MAME on a 27" VGA monitor (but that's just my humble opintion on the matter). IMO, you'd get better results with a 27" TV and an ATI Video Card, a setup which costs half the price, is trivial to implement, and which would produce more authentic looking games.

Wade · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2003, 08:48:53 am »

mwinter,

I hate to display my lack of common sense in a public forum like this, but I'm not following. You say there is no advantage to running DOS mame at 15khz on a D9200. Are you meaning, someone with a D9200 shouldn't be using DOS mame (but instead, another version of mame)? Or someone with a D9200 shouldn't be running 15khz at all? I thought that some people want to run their D9200 at 15khz to get the "authentic" look?

As far as someone running running windows mame with a D9200 vs a 27" TV, I can't comment on the quality of the latter because I haven't seen that setup. I can comment on the price, though. A D9200 is about $450, and there has been talk on this board of WG selling refurbished D9200s for $325 (that is what I would have done for certain if I had known about that option). So the price difference isn't as big as it may seem.

This is one of the reasons I decided to get a D9200. I could save up to $200 by using a TV instead of the D9200, but I figured it was worth it to have all the flexibility of the D9200. It works perfectly with both (cheap) video cards I tried, it works with windows with no special drivers, it can display authentic refresh rates, etc. I absolutely love it and highly recommend it. But what you say may be true, if the display looks as good, certain people would probably be better off saving a couple hundred bucks and using a TV instead.

Wade

desmatic · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2003, 10:28:49 am »

MAME and DOS MAME stretch images so that they take up the entire screen. This makes MAME very portable -- it works great on TVs, PC monitors, and LCD monitors. Unfortuneately, stretched images simply don't look as nice as unstretched images. But the only way to display games accurately without stretching them is to run them at the correct resolution, which few monitors can do. In fact, only arcade monitors (or hacked-up TVs) can draw resolutions small enough. The smallest standard Windows resolution supported by PC monitors is 640x480. But the most popular game resolution in MAME is 288x224, over half the size of a 640x480 resolution.

TV's normally run at 640x480 interlace. When you run Windows MAME on a D9200, you get exactly the same resolution, 640x480, except it's not interlaced. The scanline size is pretty much identical between the two displays, which means that they only differ in flicker. Displays on the D9200 don't flicker because they are running at twice the speed, 31kHz vs 15kHz. Personally, I think games look more "authentic" on a TV because they at least flicker a bit. TV's are also easier to work with and cost less money, especially when you add in shipping.

When you run DOS MAME at 15kHz, it simply runs in interlace modes, which as you already noticed produce a "flickering" intensive display. Games will look better if you play them normally at 31kHz. Either way, at 15kHz or 31kHz, the images are stretched to fill the screen like in Windows MAME.

The D9200 is special, though, very special in fact. It would take too long to explain why, but it is capable of running every MAME game at the correct resolution and refresh rate. This can only be done with AdvanceMAME which, of course, only works with certain video cards.

When you run Windows MAME or DOS MAME on a D9200, it's sort of like driving a Ferrari around in a school zone at 25mph. While it's not a bad ride, you certainly aren't tapping it's potential.

Wade · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2003, 10:53:25 am »

desmatic,

When you say "stretched", do you mean hardware stretching? Or does that option make no difference (meaning... if hardware stretching is turned off, mame still stretches, but it does it in software instead of hardware)?

I run with the tweaked modes, and no hardware stretching. I was under the impression that I was seeing the games in the actual resolution stated at the Mame info/start screen. Is that not the case? Is mame doing software pixel doubling?

I have a different video card in my machine right now than the one that was crashing advancemame. Maybe my current card will work with it. I'd still like to try advancemame to see if I like the picture better.

Hey - most people with Ferraris drive around slowly. But they are still glad they drive a Ferrari for that once a week romp up an interstate ramp or making the car wail through a tunnel.

Wade

desmatic · « **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2003, 01:10:45 pm »

desmatic,

When you say "stretched", do you mean hardware stretching? Or does that option make no difference (meaning... if hardware stretching is turned off, mame still stretches, but it does it in software instead of hardware)?

I dunno. I haven't tried it. I was under the impression that if you turned it off, it stoped stretching though.

I run with the tweaked modes, and no hardware stretching. I was under the impression that I was seeing the games in the actual resolution stated at the Mame info/start screen. Is that the case?

No.

Is mame doing software pixel doubling?

Yes. And pixel doubling is the next best thing to the perfect emulation. AdvanceMAME uses this technique extensively to display games on multisync PC monitors. This method is also used on the D9200 to display x192 at 15kHz. It's really running x384 at 25kHz.

I have a different video card in my machine right now than the one that was crashing advancemame. Maybe my current card will work with it. I'd still like to try advancemame to see if I like the picture better.

You will most likely need to purchase a card to run AdvanceMAME, as many cards don't offer very good 15kHz support. Check http://easymamecab.mameworld.net for more info on video cards.

Hey - most people with Ferraris drive around slowly. But they are still glad they drive a Ferrari for that once a week romp up an interstate ramp or making the car wail through a tunnel.

It's true. But I don't think I could do it. Hell, if I owned one, I'd probably end up getting my license revoked within a year.

Mudslide03 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2003, 10:32:50 pm »

Hi desmatic,

I just reformatted to get rid of XP and NTFS and ran your setup. I am running my 9200 sideways. What do I have to change to get advancemame/advancemenu to run sideways. I think I read that it is supported?

desmatic · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2003, 01:45:06 am »

Try changeing one of the following from no to yes in your advmame.rc file (type edit advmame.rc in DOS)

display_ror no
display_rol no

depending on which way you mounted your monitor.

In your advmenu.rc file use

video_orientation flip_xy

The above changes should work, but I never personally tried them. So, let me know if run into any problems.


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