Bartop project - "Irish Luck"

[Jouster]

*******Start EDIT*****
Here is my running punch list: (Last updated - 3/1/07)

For Feb 3rd:

• Recces, install and putty over Hinges1/24
• Install door stop1/25
• Cut Marquee slot1/24
• Drill holes for speaker board dowels (speaker board & sides)1/24
• Insert speaker board dowels1/24
• Drill Button Holes - front (5) - side (2)1/24
• Drill Exhaust holes in fan board1/24
• Finish CP design1/31
• Cut and wire CP1/31
• Glue all pieces together1/31
• Putty over my less than straight cuts.1/31   
  
• Paint cab 2/1
• Setup 'puter1/26
• Install guts2/2
• Mount monitor2/3
• Get front end working?? - sorta

For March 2nd:

• Design artwork 2/27
• Print artwork Received 2/28
• Plexi/Lexan (monitor, marquee & CP) 3/1
• T-moulding 2/24
• LEDWiz?? - I doubt this will be happening...perhaps next cab.
• Marquee light - 2/24 LEDs Installed
• Power strip 2/7

*******End Edit*******

My turn!!  After almost 2 and half months of reading about all of you doing projects, or reading about your past ones...I'm starting my own.  When do I learn the secret handshake???

I first thought that I would just build myself an upright...but after doing a lot of reading on this site, and Saint's book, I figured I should start with something smaller...like a cocktail.  Then I started reading up on those and decided that I should start with something even smaller...hence my bartop project.

Anyway, straight to the project goals:
1. I have two deadlines or milestones set...Feb 3rd (unit must be operational) and March 2nd (unit must be 100% complete).
2. Minimize costs as much as possible, unless a feature is just too cool to live without!!
3. Try and do as much as possbile myself...so I can really get my feet wet.

Reasons for the two milestones...

• Feb 3rd is the night of the next UFC PPV.  I have been hosting viewing parties ever since I moved back to Tampa in May...and this should be a great night to debut my cab.  It will give me a chance to identify any issues with modifications to my FE (unknown as of yet)...is it understandable to civilians?  It will also give my CP a real world scenario to live through.
• March 2nd is the date of my father's 60th birthday party...this cab will be the gift for his birthday and new house.  I'm also hoping that some of his friends think a cab would be a great gift for their kids, and I get a chance to make some for a profit!!   
• Also...I should stay more on track if I have a date to be done by.  Since neither of the dates will change, I will need to be ready to go for the milestones.

I should not have a problem meeting the milestones as I'm only working about 3-4 days a week right now, with some MCSE classes sprinkled in.  I should be able to devote an average of 3 hours a day to the project.  Although, this last week I was only able to really work on it one day.  I've been waiting for some parts to arrive so that I could get some final measurements before I really start to make a mess!

I don't have a name or theme yet.  I'm thinking of using a mixture of green lightning (green is my dad's and my favorite color...must be the Irish blood) and some vectorized arcade characters.  While nothing is 100% set yet, I DO want it to look professional.  After all, my cab making skills will be on display at the party!!      I just hope I have some!

I have started a blog to record my progress, it is located at joustercab.blogspot.com.

So far, all I have done is rip apart a pair of speakers, and cut my side panels.

Jouster

[javeryh]

Wow - February 3rd is an aggressive date!  I hope you can get everything finished in time.  So many questions.... Are you planning to angle the monitor?  LCD or CRT?  1 or 2 players?  Horizontal or vertical?

Good luck! 

[clockwork]

Good luck, Jouster. Feb 3rd to be operational sounds doable to me, especially with your work schedule. But as others have pointed out, it may be dangerous to make it operational before finishing it, because you'll be too busy playing it to finish. 

[leapinlew]

Nice project! February is a quick turn around for your first c ab. You'll need to make sure you have everything to do it.

Some questions for you:
What are you doing for controls?
What about t-molding?
Whats your encoder?
What about artwork?
Is the monitor horizontal or vertical?

If you don't have all those components lined up - I wouldn't be surprised if you miss your deadline. If you do miss it - don't worry. Half the fun of these mame cabs is actually building them. I did some reading on your blog and I see your expecting this cab to be cheaper than a full upright. From my experience, the cost difference is pretty insignificant.

As for the front end, I suggest Mala. I've used a variety of front ends and this was my favorite.

MCSE classes? You looking to be a network administrator? I actually need to update my MCSE from 2000 to 2003. I've got to take 2 tests. How are the classes?

Looks like a great project! Good luck and document! It's fun to read it again and others will also find it helpful.

[Donkey_Kong]

All I can say is that I don't envy your deadline. The project looks like it could turn out cool. It seems like it is gonna be a rush job but some people are way faster than others at this stuff.  It should make for a pretty cool gift to your dad either way.

Heck if it gets to be a bit of crunch on the time deadline, you could always bust out the red & green duct tape to hold it all together...You could even use the tape maybe for your side art and bezel with your exacto knife. Get creative!! Really give it the JOUSTER touch, maybe throw in some blue and white. I believe Walmart has multi color paks for $6.95.


Good Luck with the project!!   

[IG-88]

Looks cool! I will keep an eye on this one. What software are you planning on running on it?

[psychotech]

Half the fun of these mame cabs is actually building them...

Hell, I'd say it's more like 75% .. Some have even said it's three thirds

Good luck with the cab! ..and the DEADLINE .....

[Jouster]

Let's see...I think I have most of these features/concerns covered...although I didn't go into them.

As far as the monitor...I originally bought a 19" LCD from pcconnection.com for $100 after rebates (just sent the forms out today!)...but when it got here I thought it might be a little big...so I ordered a 17" LCD for $70 after rebates.  It looks a little better.  I was originally thinking of rotating the monitor...if I do decide to do that, it will obviously be between milestones!!  I'm quite sure I'll have my hands full getting everything done in time for the 3rd.

For controls...this will be a single player CP.  I need to order the Ultimarc 360...probably tomorrow.  I've already ordered the buttons and KeyWiz Eco 2 from GGG.  Order shipped this morning.  I was also thinking of getting a LEDWiz with the RGB drive + Electric ICE buttons...but that may prove to be either out of my scope for my deadlines or price...or out of the scope of my abilities right now.  Instead of just ordering plain white buttons (for player 1/2 start & coin 1/2) I ordered the ICE buttons...so I will have some if I do decide to add this later on.  However, for now my main goal is to get the thing working!!

I checked with a local Kinko's about vinyl printing...$12 a square foot.  I don't know if that is standard...and that is the only place I have looked into so far.  But since I only need about 6.5 sq ft, it might be worth it to avoid the painting process time and effort...I HATE sanding!  I'll need to paint the insides anyway...but I'm not planning on making it perfect...hopefully no one will see it!  Also, that $12/sq ft price is for the sticky back vinyl...they also will print to regular vinyl for $8/sq ft.  I may go that route to save a few bucks...and then just glue the hell out of it...or tack it into the T-moulding groove??

Now that the monitor is here, I plan on getting the final measurements I need for the width of my cab...and then cutting the other pieces tomorrow.  I was thinking of screwing and gluing...but now I'm thinking of using a dowel system...drill matching holes and glue in a wooden dowel to both ends.  I think it should be fairly sturdy, I've assembled lots of furniture using a similar system...none of it has fallen apart on me yet!

I've been disappointed in the selection I've found for acrylic at my local hardware stores.  It seems to be fairly expensive for even small pieces.  I guess I'll need to start checking the web to see what I can find.

The computer is a slightly older system, so I will probably load a copy of Win 98 SE, I have an extra CD around here somewhere...I'll probably work on the system tomorrow as well.  While I'm waiting to get some equipment in I might as well work on something!  Once I get it setup, I'll need to start playing around with some FEs.  My short list so far is MAMEWah, AtomicFE and Mala.  I'm really only looking for this thing to play older classics...so I don't think it needs much more power than it has.  I just need to double check that!!

Jouster

Lew: I actually have an MS in MIS, but it seems that everyone around here is looking for people that are certified.  So I'm having to get them.  The classes are ok, so far I've done the 70-290 & 70-270 courses...Win XP Pro & Server 2003.  I should be taking my first test (XP) in the next month followed quickly by the Server one.

[leapinlew]

I checked with a local Kinko's about vinyl printing...$12 a square foot. 

What did you think about the quality of the vinyl printing? I didn't think much of it - I considered this route also but I wasn't happy with the vinyl offered by Kinkos.

I have been happy with their backlit vinyl for the marquee. I've used that on all of my systems and it's been fine.

[Stobe]

I know all about short deadlines.  Just read my build that I finished for Christmas.

I'll offer some advice from my experience...

1.  Price of upright vs. Bartop is very minimal (as noted above)

2.  My uprights have been easier than my bartops so far, as far as complexity goes.

3.  I've used Kinkos 3 times now for projects (CPOs), and have been happy.  I've used the self adhesive vinyl, then laminated it ($3 extra for lamination, $15/sq foot).  This worked out great for me for CPOs. 

4.  You can probably save a few bucks by rolling on paint rather than vinyl sides.  This is of course is if you just want solid colored sides, and perhaps add a sticker later.

5.  Use the yellow pages for both "Plastics" and "Glass" to find your plexi/lexan/glass that you want for your screen and marquee.  Call around and try to find a place that has good "people-skills".  Often you'll find a small glass shop that has "scraps" that they will cut down for you for rather cheap.  It may be hard to find greylite, if thats what you are looking for, but Tampa is a big market, you should be able to find almost anything around there (I lived in Clearwater/Tampa for almost 30 years).

6.  I have been very happy with Mala since switching to it from Mamewah.  I think its easier to setup and change later.

If I think of anything else that might help you, I'll let you know.

Side question:  If you are using a 360 joystick, why did you need the Keywiz?  Are you planning on using more than 8 buttons?  (I'm guessing so).

Good luck,
Stobe

[leapinlew]

I know all about short deadlines.  Just read my build that I finished for Christmas.

I'll offer some advice from my experience...

1.  Price of upright vs. Bartop is very minimal (as noted above)

2.  My uprights have been easier than my bartops so far, as far as complexity goes.

3.  I've used Kinkos 3 times now for projects (CPOs), and have been happy.  I've used the self adhesive vinyl, then laminated it ($3 extra for lamination, $15/sq foot).  This worked out great for me for CPOs. 

4.  You can probably save a few bucks by rolling on paint rather than vinyl sides.  This is of course is if you just want solid colored sides, and perhaps add a sticker later.

5.  Use the yellow pages for both "Plastics" and "Glass" to find your plexi/lexan/glass that you want for your screen and marquee.  Call around and try to find a place that has good "people-skills".  Often you'll find a small glass shop that has "scraps" that they will cut down for you for rather cheap.  It may be hard to find greylite, if thats what you are looking for, but Tampa is a big market, you should be able to find almost anything around there (I lived in Clearwater/Tampa for almost 30 years).

6.  I have been very happy with Mala since switching to it from Mamewah.  I think its easier to setup and change later.

If I think of anything else that might help you, I'll let you know.

Side question:  If you are using a 360 joystick, why did you need the Keywiz?  Are you planning on using more than 8 buttons?  (I'm guessing so).

Good luck,
Stobe

[javeryh]

Side question:  If you are using a 360 joystick, why did you need the Keywiz?  Are you planning on using more than 8 buttons?  (I'm guessing so)

That's an excellent question.  I am curious now too...

[Stobe]

Thought of another...

7.  I used GGG Ice buttons on my latest project, and figured a LEDWiz would be a waste for the needs of this cabinet.  So I just bought some of his LEDs, and wired them directly (w proper resistors, of course) to 5V, so they light up all the time when the cab is on.  I didn't need flashing, color changing lights on this project.  Now on my next project....  

8.  Doing this was probably one of the more time consuming parts of my project (and I'm an electronics tech by trade).  In my case, I had a GGG KW Eco controlling all joys and buttons, plus a single LED going to each button.  This was a LOT of delicate wiring, and I'm guessing in a bartop, it could be even more hairy.  Depends on how many buttons you're using.

9.  I did buy one RGB drive unit from Randy to see what it looked like.  Very nice idea.  I think I would go that route if I went with a LEDWiz (althugh it would get rather pricey to do a big panel, just to get some "bling" out of it).  But I like the idea of soldering some wires to a board, rather than soldering wires to long LED leads.  And if you are going the non-LEDWiz route, you could just connect single wires from the RGB drive for Red, Green, or Blue, or play around with some more resistors to get other colors.

I added this info since you will have the ICE buttons.  They look great by themselves, and you can easily add the LEDs later.  (But don't get them from Radio Shack, get them online or from Randy).

-Stobe

[Jouster]

Thanks for the advice.  I kept an eye on your project Stobe...it was part of the reason I set such short deadlines myself.   I knew that I'd be more likely to finish it if I had a deadline, and seeing that these have been built in the same amount of time, or shorter, made me realize that it is possible for a first build.

As far as the buttons...my thinking was this:
4 admin buttons
3 pinball buttons
4 player buttons (perhaps only three...I ordered a 4th just in case)
4 player 1/2 & coin 1/2

The 360 can't handle that many so I needed another option...hence the encoder.  I'm planning on putting some buttons on the front panel, pinball flippers on the sides, and the rest on the CP.  I don't think it will be overkill...there should still be lots of empty space on the CP.

I'll need to start calling around for plexi/lexan pricing soon as well...although that isn't needed until the final milestone.  Same with the art work...which I still need to start on.

Today I cut the middle pieces for the cab, cut my dowel down to 1" pieces and marked the layout on the side pieces.  My progress was kinda thwarted by the fact that I got a lead on a full time job.  If I get it, it will make my already short timeline even more hectic!!  But having income is always a good thing!!  It will help pay for beer anyway!!   

[Jouster]

Ok, I need some help on the CP.

Do yall think it would be better to have the player's buttons in a straight line, or 2x2?

Straight:
  360   O O O O

2x2:
  360   O O
          O O

Or perhaps:
  360   O
        O O
          O

If I end up going with only 3, I'm pretty sure they will be in a line...maybe with a slight curve.

Any suggestions as to which layout is best?

Jouster

[leapinlew]

The 360 can't handle that many so I needed another option...hence the encoder.

I think you need another joystick on there so you can play robotron, 2 player joust, and 2 player mario bros. In fact, if you 2 dual joysticks with 4 buttons each, you could play those games, plus 2 player NES and SNES and Genesis as well. 

As for the button configuration... this deserves some though. 4 buttons would give you complete compatibility with the few neo geo games that require the 4th button (Like Samurai Showdown and a few other fighting games). Otherwise, 3 is all you need. I'd do 3 or 4 buttons in a slight arch.

Of course, if you do 4 buttons in an arch, your only 1 more button away from having a decent defender layout.

Decisions decisions... I guess what I'm saying is.... there isn't really a right answer.

[(+_+)]

Yes, I agree with leapinlew, a second joysticks for Robotron. Seriously, I'd base it on the games you enjoy playing the most and elaborate from there if possible. Also consider what button layout is most comfortable for you since your the one that'll be playing it most. You have a small footprint available so it might be tricky. Good luck.

[psychotech]

HELL,o

With 3 buttons I'd go with a slightly curved line (check out Tomatocade) as I'd also do with a 4 button layout most probably.
With 4 buttons you might also consider the diamond shape: ie. version 3 rotated 90 degrees?

But then again, that's just my opinion and ...

... consider what button layout is most comfortable for you since your the one that'll be playing it most. ...

..words of wisdom

Good luck with the build!

[javeryh]

Here's my one player CP.  I'm using a Ultimarc 360 and 3 action buttons.  You have to make cuts somewhere regarding the games your cab will be able to play.  This is for an 80% stand up but there is plenty of room to shrink it down for a bartop.

[Jouster]

Thanks for the input everyone.  I guess I'll need to do a little more research to determine the exact games I plan on installing and go from there.

On a higher note...my cab went 3D today!!

My buttons also came in(the other day)...so tonight I will be playing with a cardboard CP.

I started to work on the computer I have for the cab - I ordered a "new" HD...but it was apparently already formated to NTFS, so using Win98 is out!  I also have a spare copy of Win XP...so it shouldn't be a problem...it just wasn't expected.  I also noticed a slight problem with the speakers I dissected earlier...apparently in my enthusiasm to get them opened I broke a small piece of metal used as a jumper...a quick fix with the trusty soldering iron, and they are as good as used!

I've included a "behind the scenes" look at my new, not-yet-patented level/drill design.  I'm really starting to love the hot glue gun I got...it has soooo many uses!  After that is a look at one of my sides with dowel holes drilled, then a board awaiting dowel implantation.  The next pic is when I started to get a little giddy!  Finally!! 3D!!  The placement of the dowels in the base board weren't perfect...put with a little persuasion from my rubber mallet...it fit fine.  Lastly, a couple of looks from the back and front after fitting the other boards with dowels.

(I'm considering editing my first post to include a list of items needing to be completed and their deadline...I think it might help me pick up the pace a little to see exactly where I am...and it is always a good feeling to cross something off that list!)

Jouster

[leapinlew]

Looking good! 11 days to go.

My drill has a level built in - how high tech is that!

[spacies]

I love bartops.

I have a spare LCD screen here at the moment and I think I will build one soon.

Jouster, I seriously hope you put an extra joystick in.
Playing Joust by yourself isn't half the fun as playing 2 players.

Keep at it!

[Jouster]

I'd love to put another joystick in...but the unit is only 17.5" wide...just wide enough for one person.

I can't tell you how many years I wasted...er...spent playing Joust on my Atari 5200 with a friend of mine.  I played so much I ended up with "Atari hand"...carpel tunnel...as a kid!!  But it sure was fun.

I won't be able to work on the cab at all today...between house work and work, I'm gonna be busy.  Although I think when I get home I might work on the computer some more.

I made a really stupid mistake...I assumed the actual diagonal of the LCD screen I planned on using.  I guessed a little short.  So at least I don't have to debate whether I will make it rotate or not...unless I can figure a way to install a track that will make the screen tilt back to turn....hmmmm.

I did think of something else though...and I haven't researched it at all...but I also don't recall seeing it anywhere.  I'm going to have to paint some of the cab anyway.  What type paint do most people use?  Latex, enamel...something else?

Jouster

[leapinlew]

I'd love to put another joystick in...but the unit is only 17.5" wide...just wide enough for one person.

Heres my 16" bartop!



Do what you got to do, but I thought I'd just say that 17.5" is enough!

I used latex on all of mine.

[KenToad]

Yeah, you should have no problem getting 2 players to stand side by side on a 17.5 inch wide CP.  I even have a two player 6 button modular panel for my 20 inch wide Multi Williams themed Bartop. 

Good luck.  Looks like a good start so far.  Your construction pics remind me of my own build.

Also, Leapinlew, cool bartop, love the theme.   

[spacies]

Go on, add another stick. You will thank us in the end.

Here is mine:





One thing I did do to save room was rotate the joystick so the longest side is up and down. I also cut off the excess on the bottom mounting plate so I could mount the reverse and hyperspace buttons as close as possible. This worked extremely well.

Come on Jouster, do it!

[Jouster]

All this peer pressure...I just don't know what to do!!

Where's GI Joe when you need him?

I think the 2nd joystick will have to wait until the first revision...I've already ordered one 360...can't afford a second one and buttons right now.  Although...when I can, I will need to make a two player CP...I'm now convinced of that.

It's been a slow couple of days on the project, I've had very limited time to work on it...my sister is leaving town tomorrow, so I should have more time after that.  She has been in town for about a month...she was in Tailand for about three months...and then Alaska before that, and then Hawaii before that...etc.  When she comes home...it isn't for very long, and then she's off again.  So I gotta see her while I can!

All I have really accomplished these last few days was purchasing some hinges for my cab's back door...I also cut the MDF to have the hinges recessed.  I'm thinking that I'll use some putty to cover them and then paint over that...I'm thinking it should look nearly invisible...time will tell.

I should be able to get a few things marked off my list tomorrow...more pics then.

Jouster

[spacies]

 

No pressure.

Stick to your budget otherwise you will never get it done!

And building another control panel won't be too hard later on.

Also don't worry about us lot hurrying you up, spend some time with your sister.

 

[Kaytrim]

Was just looking at your latest build pics.  That is going to be one solid cabinet.  All those dowels and the drilling by hand.  My hand isn't as steady or accurate to get that kind of work done.

Looks Great, Keep it up, when you can

[Jouster]

Today was a productive day...I was able to cross off a few things from my punch list.

I got the hinges recessed, screwed in & puttied over...although one side will require some sanding to fix.  I started to fill the right side and then added more putty to the mix...then it started to firm up much better.  The left side looks much smoother.  I will probably need to mix up some more tomorrow and even out the right side.

I also drilled my button holes for the front panel and sides.  While I was working with the putty, I painted the front, speaker board and one of the sides' inside.  After I painted the side, I realized that I still needed to cut out my marquee slot.  You can also see where I had to fill in a space from a skill saw mishap on the painted side.

I've marked my CP, but not cut anything yet...I guess this first CP will have three player buttons, the 360, P1 start & coin, and P2 start & coin.  Some may ask, "if you have only a one player setup, why do you need P2 start/coin??"  I plan on putting some pinball games on here as well, and many older games allowed for multiple players...but only 1 could play at a time.

Jouster

[Zeosstud]

No Robotron, seems criminal to me.  How about this for a button layout??  Plays Defender, Stargate, Robotron and really, a damn fine game of Vanguard if you were ever so inspired. 



Zeosstud

[Kaytrim]

You might have problems with the glue not sticking to the dowels now that they are painted.   They might not even fit now with the thickness of the paint on them.  Take some time to sand that off and tape them prior to any additional coats of paint.  Or if you are able replace them with fresh dowels after you are finished with the paint.

[Jouster]

Luckily, the dowels aren't that covered in paint...I was trying to be careful about getting them.  I will try to fit them first...if they don't fit, I will sand them down some.

I do have a question for those with the Ultrastick 360...how much clearance is needed under a 3/4" CP??

I've put in the door stop for the back door.  I bought some wire for the CP...but I need to get the 360 in first, it shipped yesterday.

I sanded the front panel and painted a second coat...did the same to the speaker panel.  Also painted one coat on the angle/fan board.

As far the 'puter setup, I got ahold of a copy of Tiny XP...I will need to install that.  The specs: AMD K6-III 450MHz with 256 MB RAM...I have a 3GB & 40GB drive (one for OS, one for apps).

Jouster

[blueznl]

what's tiny xp?

[Kaytrim]

what's tiny xp?

Tiny XP is a slimmed down version of the Windows XP Operating System.   Someone out there should be able to point you where you can learn more.

[blueznl]

(Should have known, sigh. Oh well...) Googling... thx...

[Jouster]

I'm running short on time to meet my first milestone!  6 days to go!

I have the system setup...it is at least workable right now.  I'll need to make a skin and do some other personalization to the OS and all, but for now it will run.

I'm nearly done painting the pieces that I plan on painting...just need to sand and apply the last coat to the back and top piece.  Once I glue all of the pieces together, I'll spray some more paint in the joints to help hide some of the errors...er, I mean to make it more sturdy!   

I'm really waiting on the 360...it is in Ohio as of last scan...hopefully it is on its way south!  Once I have that, I can determine the exact height that I need to have my CP, and then I can mount my side rails & velcro.  After the side rails are on, I'll glue all the pieces together and start fitting in the system...then I'll need to wire the CP.

I think I've come up with a theme for the unit.  As I was searching for a font to use on the marquee...since I'm waiting on the 360, I decided to start on the artwork...anyway, I came across a Gaelic font that I really liked.  I'm leaning toward the name "Irish Luck".  My marquee will consist of about 10 mini-marquees with Irish Luck in the middle surrounded by Celtic knotwork.  For the CPO, I had three thoughts for art: 1. a 4-leaf clover in the middle with green lightning shooting out from around it, 2. a 3D Celtic knot on a background TBD and 3. a picture of green, rolling Irish hills with a Celtic knot border...and knot border for buttons.

I'm leaning toward the landscape pic, but I might do a version of all three...just to be sure.  I have VERY limited Photoshop skills, I've made a few desktop wallpapers for a few companies I have worked at...mostly abstract stuff.

I haven't decided on side art yet...although it will probably depend on the CPO I end up going with.

Jouster

[Jouster]

3 days to go...

I got some more done the last couple of days...basically down to sanding & a final coat of paint...then mounting the system inside, and final hookups.

I should be able to make it in time.

Here are some shots of my CP...I was going to use quick disconnects, but couldn't seem to find a bag of just the female end...so I thought screw it, I'll just solder it.  I never used to be very good with the soldering iron...but after learning to heat the parts, not the solder - it turned out to be much easier.  It doesn't look half bad.

I'm gonna work on my artwork some more tonight.

Jouster

[Mr. Greenjeans]

Nice wiring ....

[Jouster]

Thanks.

Here is a look at my marquee...any thoughts?

Jouster