Could I get in trouble for this?

[USSEnterprise]

So for the past school year, my HS has had a problem with asbestos. They have been cleaning it up with students still in the school, still using the same hallway as where it is being cleaned up. The school district won't release the asbestos abatement reports to the public for some reason, and the school currently has 25 asbestos related citations from the EPA. I contacted the local newspaper and told them about all this BS. They are investigating, and might do a story on it. Am I protected by freedom of speech, or could I potentially get in trouble (within my school) for contacting the press?

[pointdablame]

Officially, you shouldn't be able to get in trouble.  It's also a very sleazy move by your school in the first place since they know the asbestos is there.


It doesn't mean you won't be singled out unofficially though.. and unfortunately, that's probably fairly likely to happen if they (the school) didn't want the information to go out.

[theskuh]

Hopefully your school won't do any thing like come after you.  Document (write down) anything you think is fishy, when it happened etc and see a laywer.

Is it public or private?

I am a teacher in a public high school and if there was anything that put kids in harm in my school it would be on the local news in a heartbeat. In fact the local news likes to make up stuff they would be salivating over that story.

I am not sure how much people pay in taxes for schools but where  I teach school taxes are high and people get real upset to see their tax money being misused. By mishandling a cleanup and injuring their sons or daughters that is a misuse of money and a bad screwup on somebodies part.

The elementary school where I live is shut down now because of a mold problem. They had to close the entire building and start late a month.  The community I live in is not as vocal as the one I teach in though. If that happened in the district I am employed in heads would roll and people would be removed from their jobs.

But if you are in a district where the community is apathetic then it might not make a ripple. If it is a private school just have the parents threaten to pull their kids out if it doesn't get fixed.

Schools are a commodity people are paying for them they should be run right. But sometimes the community isn't able to supply the money necessary to run a school properly and you end up, for example with a elementary school filled with mold becasue the town wasn't prepared to pay to fix the job right the first time.

If you know something is not right you have every right to make your voice heard. 

[TOK]

Pretty messed up if they're doing that. A guy that worked with my father died of asbestoses. They did demolition and construction together for years. My dad just happened not to work on the job where all the old asbestos was ripped out. It takes a long time to get you too, like 20 years.

The real ---smurfette--- of the situation in your case is that the asbestos is basically harmless if left undisturbed. When you start removing or breaking it up is when the dangerous airborne particles are released. This sounds like something your school should be doing over the summer, not when classes are going.
 

[USSEnterprise]

75% of the school was built in '63, therefore, there probably is a good deal of solid asbestos in the floor tile, on the pipes, etc. But when they find it, they apparently have to remove it. They are just ignoring the floor tile for now. But yes, they did start the job in the summer, still haven't finished though.

[danny_galaga]

you arent employed by the school, so theres no way you can get into any sort of legal trouble...

[Glaine]

That is so messed up. It seems like I remember active public buildings still having asbestos as being illegal, if not they should be. Thats like saying, "Lets recycle toilet water into drinking water, only a couple of kids will get sick - so thats OK". And you said they started cleaning it up over the summer so those particles are probably floating around now.

Unless the paper quotes you by name, the school shouldn't know it was you, I would think. You might stress that your name be removed to the newspaper you told this too if you are worried about being found out, though sometimes news teams go ahead and use your quote if you didn't declare this before hand (all depends on the people, most would probably take your name out though).

I'm proud of you for saying something about it.

[shardian]

Asbestos Abatement is a SERIOUS procedure. That is why those contractors make the big bucks. No, this should definitely NOT be going on while students are still using the immediate area. If it is done during the school year, then that part of the building should be shut down and isolated.

My question is this - are you sure it is asbestos they are removing in the hallways? It may just be another contractor doing their work after the abatement contractors have done their part. The number one giveaway if they are doing asbestos work is if the dudes working are wearing full respiration outfits like people use in quarantine areas. If it is a few Joe Schmo's in work boots and jeans, they are not doing asbestos work.

As to getting in trouble, you should have no problems whatsoever. You can always tell the newspaper you want to remain anonymous, and they have to oblige.

[FrizzleFried]

Hell...this is the kind of stuff I'd have jumped at when I was a kid.  I hated authority back then...and would have been ITCHING to tell my story in HOPES the school messed with me.

See...I have a motto:  NO BODY F'S WITH JON....JON DOES THE F'IN!

I'd have DARED the school to mess with me...DARED em.

They won't....nothing to be gained....what are they going to do...FAIL YOU?

[shardian]

That is so messed up. It seems like I remember active public buildings still having asbestos as being illegal, if not they should be. Thats like saying, "Lets recycle toilet water into drinking water, only a couple of kids will get sick - so thats OK". And you said they started cleaning it up over the summer so those particles are probably floating around now.

That is funny. If having asbestos is illegal in existing structures, then pretty much every single older public building would be shut down. Pretty much all of them built before 1970 are loaded with the stuff. My college had it everywhere. It is in ceilings, floors, walls, around piping and ducts. Asbestos was the best insulating material available back then. Unfortunately, no one knew it destroyed your lungs as a side effect.

[Glaine]

That is so messed up. It seems like I remember active public buildings still having asbestos as being illegal, if not they should be. Thats like saying, "Lets recycle toilet water into drinking water, only a couple of kids will get sick - so thats OK". And you said they started cleaning it up over the summer so those particles are probably floating around now.

That is funny. If having asbestos is illegal in existing structures, then pretty much every single older public building would be shut down. Pretty much all of them built before 1970 are loaded with the stuff. My college had it everywhere. It is in ceilings, floors, walls, around piping and ducts. Asbestos was the best insulating material available back then. Unfortunately, no one knew it destroyed your lungs as a side effect.

I didn't say every building, just the ones still being used. I know of lots of abandoned buildings with it, some to be torn down, some not. Like I said, I wasn't really sure if it was illegal (meaning building-code wise), but that it should be if it isn't. I don't want a lung full of crud when I go to the Library.

Why your college doesn't have to remove it I don't know.
Thats like sticking with VHS because its cheaper even though it is no longer a valid option.
I'm not fighting with you on this, we're on the same page. And clearly if it is everywhere like you say, it probably is not considered a threat to building code, etc.

[ChadTower]

As to getting in trouble, you should have no problems whatsoever. You can always tell the newspaper you want to remain anonymous, and they have to oblige.

They do not have to oblige at all.  There are no laws requiring they honor requests for anonymity.  There are ethics that require honoring anonymity but we all know exactly how ethical your average newspaper reporter tends to be.  Local papers divulge their sources all the time against the source's wish.  A woman down the street from me "anonymously" blew the whistle on some contractors that were dumping near her house and not only did they give her name but they gave her address too.

Asbestos is NOT illegal in buildings.  It is illegal, obviously, to put in new asbestos.  Any work done on the building that exposes existing asbestos must remove the asbestos.  Any accidentally exposed asbestos, or asbestos that is not fully sealed in, must be removed.  Asbestos that is still fully housed (e.g. asbestos insulated pipes where the insulation housing is fully intact and is not being disturbed) can legally remain until it encounters one of the aforementioned situations.  There are also situations where rather than remove the asbestos it can simply be sealed in.  Here in MA it is fairly common to find an old house with asbestos shingles.  If they are in good condition they can stay until they are not.  It's common for people, rather than removing them, to enclose them with vinyl siding, though obviously that drives the cost of installation way up.  My house has vinyl siding over asbestos shingles (was that way when we bought it) and my brother in law's house is covered with asbestos shingles.

BTW, those same laws mostly apply to other hazardous outdated materials like lead paint, too.

[shardian]

I did not mean abandoned buildings, I meant in-use buildings. There is a reason why asbestos abatement contractors live in mansions. That reason is they can charge whatever they want, which they do, and people have to pay it.

Because of this, it is not possible to remove all the asbestos. Doing that would require a complete strip down of a building - done by specialized asbestos contractors that charge 3 times as much as a standard contractor. The cost would be outrageous.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, they pretty much pull asbestos as they have to and leave the vast majority of it there.

[divemaster127]

When I was in college some of the old dorms had this in it, cleanup crews came in & sealed off these dorms with plastic over everything & you had to stay so far away from the areas, this is serious stuff
dm

[ChadTower]

They only have to do that if it is exposed or disturbed.  If it's going to float in the air, and it's a fine powder, then yeah they have to keep everyone way out and go in like there is uranium in there.  If they're just working in the area near sealed asbestos they don't have to do that.

[shardian]

I remember walking by Davis Hall one day and seeing the guy in the HAZMAT suit walking out of the side door. I decided I would never be walking in Davis Hall again.

[USSEnterprise]

I wouldn't be complaining if the asbestos was solid. My house has asbestos shingles for siding. The problem is, during abatement, dust is inevitable. The sections of the school where there has been abatement were not sealed off or isolated during. In fact, in "c-wing", where the majority of the construction is going on (nicknamed "cancer wing"), people are still using their lockers, and have been since the beginning of the year.

[Glaine]

Good posts. Color me informed. 

[ChadTower]

I wouldn't be complaining if the asbestos was solid. My house has asbestos shingles for siding. The problem is, during abatement, dust is inevitable. The sections of the school where there has been abatement were not sealed off or isolated during. In fact, in "c-wing", where the majority of the construction is going on (nicknamed "cancer wing"), people are still using their lockers, and have been since the beginning of the year.

Make sure it's not something similar looking like drywall dust.  The concept of the school just letting airborne asbestos float around is almost unimaginable.  The litigation alone resulting from that would bankrupt a town and send officials to prison.

[USSEnterprise]

If it is just drywall dust, why doesn't the district release the abatement reports to the public, while everyone (Students, parents, teachers) is demanding to see them? Its damn fishy

[danny_galaga]

you need to find out for sure. as chad said, the danger is only in floating particles.  the fibres arent 'poisonous' as such. rubbing it on your skin or eating wont hurt you for instance. it causes a physical reaction. asbestosis is caused when the particles get lodged in your lungs. they are JUST the right length that when a cell in your lungs tries to do grow over it to destroy it, the particle is a fraction longer than the cell can handle and it causes it to mutate (or stay deformed, i cant remember now).

[USSEnterprise]

http://tinyurl.com/2no6af
Here's a newspaper article from the reporter I spoke to telling the public about the meeting. Leaving for it in a few minutes. Should be interesting. They are still denying there is a problem in that article, yet they won't release the reports.

[boykster]

If it is just drywall dust, why doesn't the district release the abatement reports to the public, while everyone (Students, parents, teachers) is demanding to see them? Its damn fishy

Because "the public" sees the word asbestos and has a cow.  Just like if they see the word "cancer" or other inflammatory words that people fear but don't really understand.

[ChadTower]

Erm, if all you guys have is rumors, odds are high that it's drywall dust or something even less hazardous.

[boykster]

Allison Erwin, a school district spokeswoman, said: "Throughout the construction process, the district had an outside agency perform multiple air tests on multiple occasions, in multiple locations to make sure we were providing a safe environment. Those tests showed no cause for alarm." She also said the state's Public Employees Occupational Safety and Health Program agreed that there was no evidence of an unsafe environment.

 

Sounds like the school district has followed standard practices:  3rd party monitoring in multiple areas as well as a sign-off by a health and safety group that represents the state employees. 

What is it you kids want?  No school until they're done with construction?   

[ChadTower]

What is it you kids want?  No school until they're done with construction?   

That's probably pretty close to the actual motivation here.

[shardian]

Violation, or no violation, I'd like to commend you again for speaking out on this. In college, our student body was so bogged down with apathy that noone spoke out against anything. Even if someone did, noone would back them up.

[JackTucky]

I used to own a home where USSE lives.  I paid $7500 per year in taxes.

That town is growing so much that they have no place for students to go.

-J

[ChadTower]

Asbury Park?  Can't they all stay with Jon Bon Jovi?

[USSEnterprise]

Allison Erwin, a school district spokeswoman, said: "Throughout the construction process, the district had an outside agency perform multiple air tests on multiple occasions, in multiple locations to make sure we were providing a safe environment. Those tests showed no cause for alarm." She also said the state's Public Employees Occupational Safety and Health Program agreed that there was no evidence of an unsafe environment.

 

Sounds like the school district has followed standard practices:  3rd party monitoring in multiple areas as well as a sign-off by a health and safety group that represents the state employees. 

If that is the case, why can't we get an abatement report? We already have the sheet citing over 20 violations from the EPA against our school.

[Glaine]

Time to pay one of those kids who sticks stuff in the electric sockets for fun to go breath in real good whatever that stuff is so he can file a suit and make this stuff get cleaned up.

 

[USSEnterprise]

Only problem with that plan is that it would take 15-20n years for the cancer to set in 

[mccoy178]

So, what ended up happening at the meeting?  Spill the beans kid.

[ChadTower]

Only problem with that plan is that it would take 15-20n years for the cancer to set in 

10-20 years applies to asbestosis, which is scarring of the lung tissue as a result of the overactive (and ineffective) immunoresponse to asbestos fibres inside the lungs.  That's not cancer.

The cancers commonly linked to asbestos exposure are lung and larynx with some studies suggesting slightly increased risk for a few others (stomach, pharyngeal, colorectal, gastrointestinal).  There are no consistent numbers I've ever seen on latency periods for asbestos related cancers since it is so heavily dependent on things like exposure levels and exposure durations.

[Hawkypro]

File a third party suit with an Attorney who will work on contingency. If you think that you and other students have been exposed to the stuff, get all of them to sign on to the case. That way, Ten years from now when your lungs are bleeding out from exposure, you and all the other students will get nothing and your Attorney will walk away with a bundle of money. Moral of the story is: Dont bother with this, you might open up a bad can of worms you cant get rid of.

[ChadTower]

All they have to do is capture the dust and have it analyzed for asbestos content. 

[USSEnterprise]

Only problem with that plan is that it would take 15-20n years for the cancer to set in 

10-20 years applies to asbestosis, which is scarring of the lung tissue as a result of the overactive (and ineffective) immunoresponse to asbestos fibres inside the lungs.  That's not cancer.

The cancers commonly linked to asbestos exposure are lung and larynx with some studies suggesting slightly increased risk for a few others (stomach, pharyngeal, colorectal, gastrointestinal).  There are no consistent numbers I've ever seen on latency periods for asbestos related cancers since it is so heavily dependent on things like exposure levels and exposure durations.

I was thinking of mesothelioma, a form cancer which affects the linings of the internal organs, but the waiting period on that is 20 to 50 years, as opposed to 10-20

[DrewKaree]

File a third party suit with an Attorney who will work on contingency. If you think that you and other students have been exposed to the stuff, get all of them to sign on to the case. That way, Ten years from now when your lungs are bleeding out from exposure, you and all the other students will get nothing and your Attorney will walk away with a bundle of money. Moral of the story is: Dont bother with this, you might open up a bad can of worms you cant get rid of.

Wow....just.....wow!

[shardian]

File a third party suit with an Attorney who will work on contingency. If you think that you and other students have been exposed to the stuff, get all of them to sign on to the case. That way, Ten years from now when your lungs are bleeding out from exposure, you and all the other students will get nothing and your Attorney will walk away with a bundle of money. Moral of the story is: Dont bother with this, you might open up a bad can of worms you cant get rid of.

Hey, did you go to my college? I ask because you have that defeatist apathy thing down pat! You could, like, be an unmotivational speaker or something.