Gamecube to Whatever adaptors for the wii. (Can't we do better?)

[Howard_Casto]

I'm sure you've all seen these by now. 

http://www.retrousb.com/wii.html

Fantastic idea, but it seems a bit limited, not to mention pricey. 

Don't let the name of the adaptors fool you, these aren't wii adaptors, they are gamecube adaptors. 

My question is, do you think someone around here could devise a chip kit that'll work on all the nintendo controllers for around the same price?

Here is my reasoning......

The nes serial protocol was very slow and very simple.  So simple that back in the day you could basically straight wire a nes controller into the parallel port and with a driver it'd work.  The snes protocol was identical save a "slot" for two more buttons.  I mean so identical that you could straight wire a snes controller to a nes console and have it work, sans any circuitry.  The reason retrozone is offering a nes and snes adaptor is because they are the same kit with a different connector ( you can confirm this by looking at their pc kits and reading the faq). 

The n64 protocol is infinately more complicated, but here is the good part.  Much like the nes/snes, the n64 controller uses the exact same protocol as the gamecube controller. So much so that I bet we could hook a n64 controller straight to the gc/wii and have it almost work.. a few properly placed resistors to block off the missing analog stick and it'd work completely. 


So any ideas? Takers?  Ect?

[MajorLag]

Huh. I was under the impression that the Gamecube ports only worked with actual Gamecube games, not the virtual console.

[somunny]

Nope, the old GC controllers work with the virtual console games, as well (though maybe not 100% of them).  Watch the video here. When the pointer selects the virtual console game, you'll notice several icons indicating which controllers are compatible with that particular game.

[AlanS17]

It's not an elegant solution, but here's a thought (and something that almost anyone could do with the right parts).

Have a series of chained connectors. The first plugs into your GameCube slot on the Wii and ports to a female N64 slot (since you say they're virtually the same). Then have a second adapter for the SNES that plugs into the N64 slot. Then finally have an NES adapter that plugs into the SNES slot. To play any given game, you just remove the appropriate links in the chain to hook the controller of your choice.

This method could probably be achieved by having just one of the Retrozone adapters (to have the chip), and then doing some splicing. Granted, it would be uglier than sin...

Otherwise, maybe you can contact Retrozone and see what they say about making a multi-adapter. Sounds like it would be too hard to do. Would probably be pricey, though.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah, that is probably the best solution, but as you said, it'd be really ugly. 

What'd be nice is if somebody make some sort of all-in-one block that just plugs into the  first 2 gc ports (no need for 4 as nintendo said 4-score isn't going to be supported) and replaces them with a nice looking panel with the three connectors for each player, and maybe a pass-through gc port.  it'd be a really tight squeeze with the size of the wii, but it might be possible. 

I'll do some measuring when I think of it and see what I can sketch up. 


If course there is also the gc wireless protocol.  A smart company would use the wavebird connectors to make a pretty invisible block panel on the top that simply plugs into all the ports and covers them and put the actual ports on the removeable base of the wii. 

[Dave_K.]

The n64 protocol is infinately more complicated, but here is the good part.  Much like the nes/snes, the n64 controller uses the exact same protocol as the gamecube controller. So much so that I bet we could hook a n64 controller straight to the gc/wii and have it almost work.. a few properly placed resistors to block off the missing analog stick and it'd work completely.

Any web references to this claim?  I'd love to try and connect an N64 controller up to a GC, but GC is 5 pins, and N64 is 3 pins.

[Howard_Casto]

There are web references, but I sure don't have em.  I ran across the data several months while searching late at night and I said "hmm that's interesting" and never gave it a second thought. 

This was way before we knew the wii would have gc ports so I didn't find the article particularly useful. 

Can't remember what I was searching for, but it was something like gamecube pinouts. 

[Howard_Casto]

http://www.int03.co.uk/crema/hardware/gamecube/gc-control.htm

The gc controller uses the same shift register system as the n64 controller.  If you look at the chart, I can tell you that the n64 sent the data in the same blocks, just in a slightly different order.  The only real difference being obvioulsy that the n64 controller only sends 3 bytes of data because there is only one analog stick. 

If you go to stephen hans site and look at his chart, you'll see what I mean.  http://www.mixdown.ca/n64dev/


If we compare it'll turn out something like this:

N64>>>>>>GameCube
A                  0
B                  0
Z                  0
Start            Start
Up                Y
Down           X
Left              B
Right            A
0                  1
0                  L
L                  R
R                  Z
C up            D up
C down       D Down
C Left          D Left
C Right        D Right
X axis          x axis
y axis          y axis

Not very similar in terms of order, but digital buttons are still in the same place as are analog.  Also it was my understanding that when the controller initalized itself it sent out data telling the system what kind of controller it is. (Basically a "map" of the button slots)  This is purely speculation on my part, but seeing as how the two are so similar, it might be that the gc supports the n64 layout for backwards compatability and using n64 ports for the gc were dropped in the end and thus it was never documented.  Even if this isn't the case, the same data is here it just needs re-arranged.  anyone with pic experience should be able to do it fairly easily.  (Read not me). 



I don't know if the gc is gonna except having only 3 bytes though is the thing.  The snes protocol was similar and it did (with corrupted values for the two buttons not on the nes pad) but there is no telling.  Stephen mentions at the bottom of the n64 page that the last bit on the n64 is a "stop bit" so maybe the gc would have enough sense to stop reading after that. 

Btw regarding the pins issue, the gc just has more grounds is all. 

[Dave_K.]

  Thanks for pulling that info together!  Unfortunately I'm not a pic programmer either, but certainly sounds do'able.  I think we would have herd by now if the GC serial protocol was backward compatible, since its a no brainer to hookup the voltage and data lines.

[Howard_Casto]

Not necessarily.  Most people hate the n64 controller, at least compared to the gc one.  Mind you I'm not one of those people, I'm under the opinion that aside from the xbox controller, it is the best layout ever made, but still. 

If I had some gc extension cables, I'd give it a shot, but I'm not willing to hack up my pads to test. 

[Dave_K.]

The reason I was asking, is because I have a Seta Alek64 control panel with analog/digital sticks that use the same protocol as N64.  3 wire hookup per player.  It would be cool to try playing a GameCube as well as an N64 in a cab with this panel.

http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img20327uq.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img20346qn.jpg

[Howard_Casto]

Damn it's scary when my educated guesses are so right.  Now I don't know how well it's implemented, but apparently the gamecube (and probably the wii) can detect n64 controllers. 

I found this gamecube doc site....

http://hitmen.c02.at/files/yagcd/yagcd/chap9.html#sec9


Note the n64 controllers with a ? mark in the device list.  My guess is they never did anything with them because the n64 controller is so similar to the gamecube one.


Since you have a controller that can have another cord put on it easily, I suggest you splice one in and get back to me.   

[Dave_K.]

Resurrecting this old thread since there has been a resurgence in N64 controllers to work with the Wii (due to the N64 virtual console games).  Apparently its not as plug and play (or backward compatible) as initially thought.  The solution requires a programmable pic.

You can buy pre-made cables+embedded controller cable here:
http://shop.raphnet.net/products/n64_to_wii/index.php?category=Cable

Or just the project board to make your own cable here:
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/x2wii/index_en.php

[danny_galaga]

Resurrecting this old thread since there has been a resurgence in N64 controllers to work with the Wii (due to the N64 virtual console games).  Apparently its not as plug and play (or backward compatible) as initially thought.  The solution requires a programmable pic.

You can buy pre-made cables+embedded controller cable here:
http://shop.raphnet.net/products/n64_to_wii/index.php?category=Cable

Or just the project board to make your own cable here:
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/x2wii/index_en.php

cool idea! bit pricey, but still...

[MajorLag]

Speaking of N64 controllers for different systems, does anyone know of a PC gamepad modeled after the N64 controller?

P.S.: I know about the N64->USB adaptoids. They won't work for the project I have in mind.

[Howard_Casto]

Speaking of N64 controllers for different systems, does anyone know of a PC gamepad modeled after the N64 controller?

P.S.: I know about the N64->USB adaptoids. They won't work for the project I have in mind.

Why won't they?

[Howard_Casto]

cool idea! bit pricey, but still...

Actually... that isn't that pricy.  The amtel chip generall retails for around 6 bucks.... he's selling them for 6.99 pre-programmed.  The pre-assembled ones obvioulsy are a bit higher, but it's costly to do small batches of pcbs. 

We can work with this though.  The source-code is available to all three controllers.  Assuming of course there is enough space on the chip, the ideal thing to do would be to combine them all into a single chip. Snes/Nes are easy, as they use the same code.  Probably the easiest way to do it would be to poll the controller upon connection, as the n64 is going to have a bit of a "startup" and the others won't.  If that isn't possible, then simply looking for a button combo upon startup would work as well.  Perhaps defaulting to the nes/snes code unless the z-trigger is held.

Regardless, the work would involve designing a more affordable pcb, one that we could build ourselves.  I think some aussie built one on a breadboard in the picture gallery of that site.  It looks far more doable. 

Anyone have an amtel programmer?  I can't program assembly to save my life, but for what little needs to be modified I could probably muddle through.

Unfortunately though, the VC has expanded to include other systems.  Now we need a chip that can do nes, snes, n64, master system, genesis, tg16, and neogeo.