MDF Dust

[johnm160]

So I made my sawboards today using some scrap MDF. I have worked with MDF before but always had it cut to size at the store to make it easy to transport home. So today was the first time I actually took a saw to thist stuff.

All I can say is HOLY  in the time it took me to cross cut a 16" x 8' piece and rip the remaining 16" x 4' to finished size for the sawboard I was COVERED in dust. There was a huge mess on the patio to clean up, and the 3 nearest cars also had MDF dust on the.

Don't even get me started on the smell, I still feel like this crap is in the back of my throat. Imagine if I was not wearing a mask....even though I don't think the paper mask did much.

There is NO WAY I would cut up enough of this crap to make an entire cabinet out of. I can get BC sanded ply for only $3 per sheet more.

I don't know how you guys work with this  . It is nasty nasty stuff.....

/rant

[prOk]

most people that really work with mdf frequently are using dust collection systems to control the dust

[johnm160]

I could see that that would be necessary, but for some reason my cheapo circular saw did not come with a fitting to connect to one.

[GoPodular.com]

You need to dedicate a specific area.  Expect everything within that area to be ruined by dust.  Even with a dust collection system, the dust will get anywhere and everywhere.  If you don't have a dust collector, it's easiest to cut outside.

You don't want to breath this stuff if at all possible.  MDF has chemicals which can possibly cause cancer and/or reproductive issues (it has in lab animals, but hasn't be linked to cancer in humans).  As a "wood", it's perfectly safe.  When you cut it, the dust is as fine as a powder and that's when it's trouble.

For us, we cut a batch of pieces and then clean up everything.  It adds time to ship stuff because we're not cutting stuff everyday, but makes for a cleaner (and IMO safer) work environment.

One thing you can try is to rig up something for a shop-vac.  We have one attached to our small drill press and it works great.  I built a wood backing board that fits against the post of the drill press and used a styrofoam can cooler to change from the round shop-vac hose to an oblong intake system.  For a skill-saw, I think it would be safest to get something from the manufacturer.

If you think it smelled bad while you were cutting, wait for smell over the next couple days as the MDF dust works though your system.  Avoiding that is worth wearing masks and cutting outside. 

[leapinlew]

I cut outside and I wear a mask.

[kingflynn]

Those thin paper masks are not good enough to keep the fine dust from mdf from your lungs.  You have to get one of the multiple layer masks that are rated for such dust.  I get the ones that have the small exhale vent on the front.  They are still only a couple of bucks, and well worth it.

[johnm160]

I only had a paper mask and I did cut outside. Personally I will continue to use it for shelving and getting it cut at the store. For a cabinet, I will cut plywood. Just a personal choice, and I will be able to reproduce! (gulp)

[Xam]

I cut outside and I wear a mask.

me too leap...and not just a mask, I used a respirator and still inhaled some of the demon spawn.

Believe the hype about the dust folks!

Xam

[Xiaou2]

 
 Use a tablesaw + Dust collector = 96%+  dust removed...
 (harbor freight has good prices on dust collectors)

 Use an Ionizer to nullify remaining dust and also it
gets rid of any smells.

       
I recomend:  NeoTec XJ2100  Ionizer 
Ebay Seller "   thewindsurfman"

 The thing is probably the most powerfull Ionizers arround...
Has 25 Ion Pins!    60,000,000 ions per cubic cm!

  Fire that baby up, and in seconds, dust clouds litterally dissapear...
as once the Ions hit the dust, it falls straight and fast, right to the floor,
or get trapped to the collection plates.

 

[johnm160]

Thanks, I will look into that.

[elvis]

I'm gobsmacked by the number of people who cut MDF near or even IN their house.  That's seriously asking for trouble.

Think for a minute what MDF is - Medium Density Fiberboard.  Cutting any sort of fiberboard is going to result in massive amounts of ultra-find sawdust.  Not only that, but it's all held together by glue which is highly carcinogenic.  You don't want that stuff anywhere near your eyes, mouth, house, pets or especially kids.

Work outside, away from your house.  I'm lucky enough to have a large work shed, but for the space-challenged, at least do it out in the back yard.  And if you don't have a back yard, find someone who does.

The 6 P's reign supreme folks: Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.  Do your research first BEFORE you put tool to material.

[DrewKaree]

 Use a tablesaw + Dust collector = 96%+  dust removed...

89.724% of all statistics on the intra-nets are false.

[Xiaou2]

Just a few quick clarifications..
 
 I wouldnt recomend "Only" using an  Ionizer for dust
removal.. as that it a bit too slow a process. 
Tho,  it does work very well for getting smells and many
fine particales out of the air quickly (just not quick enough 'alone')
.. ones that even dust collectors may not pull out.   
This is why its good to use a combination of
technologies.
 It may cost  more,  but your life/health is worth it.

 As for the Dust Collectors..   
1) Dont use a Shop Vac as a d.collector.  They are too loud,  youll
go thru hundreads of dollars in filters..  and it still wont be
as effective as a true dust colelctor.

2) You really want to make an attachment to  the bottom  of the
tablesaw so  that the dust is sucked down the slot as soon
as its cut.   Basically, your table becomes a 'down-draft' table.

 (ive also got a y-splitter on my hoses, where one hose
sucks air from the room as well as the one connected to the
table.  An open/close gate is adjusted so that only
a little is sucking the room air, and most suction is
directed to the tablesaw.  The hoses+hardware package is
sold at Harbor Freight as well.  Do not try to use
adapters for smaller hoses.. as that will not produce
enough air movment.   I know, cause i tried  heh)

 In order to do this, you may need to seal a lot of little  holes
and crevices in the tablesaw base with hot-glue or simular.
Which will give you a massive amount more air movment.

 Building the tablesaw hookup wanst too hard.   I simply
cut a hole in a board,  slipped the adapter into it.. glued and
maybe even screwed in place.    Drilled mount holes that matched
the bolts that hold the saw to the table.. and slid it under the table.

 I can hardly believe I cut MDF without it in the past.  The
MDF would be comming out of my nose/lungs  for days. Very
nasty stuff.   You really cant afford Not to get a dust collector
if you plan to work with MDF lots.

 Not all of us have ability to work outdoors.  Limited because of weather
and other factors.  This dual combo works amazngly well.   And I only have a
1hp system.     No more visibe dust in the air,  no bad smells either.  No
having to keep clearing my glasses off too  heh.   No after effects
the next day(s).   

 

[sealslayer]

Start smoking and you will never be able to smell MDF dust nor notice any difference with your lungs 

[theCoder]

I prefer cabinet grade birch plywood.  9 to 11 plys.  No dust problem here.  Plus it holds screws much better.

[shardian]

 Use a tablesaw + Dust collector = 96%+  dust removed...

89.724% of all statistics on the intra-nets are false.

Shoot, 96% of the stuff hits the ground immediately anyways. FYI, those tool mounted "dust collectors" are pieces of junk. I've used a sander with one, and a miter saw with one. They don't stop airborne dust, and they still let alot of saw dust go flying.

[ChadTower]

I prefer cabinet grade birch plywood.  9 to 11 plys. 

I tried that but kept getting splinters.  We went back to 3 ply Charmin.

[johnm160]

I prefer cabinet grade birch plywood.  9 to 11 plys. 

I tried that but kept getting splinters.  We went back to 3 ply Charmin.

OUCH! 

[AlanS17]

I'm the perfect example of what NOT to do with MDF. Having never worked with it before, I decide to cut it inside. Of course it instantly turned to powder and filled the very large carpeted room (20ft X 30ft) I was working in. I didn 't wear any sort of mask, and I could taste MDF for hours. My only protection was pulling my shirt over my nose. It sucked...

And that was just the control panel! 

[ChadTower]

Ever get it out of that carpet?  MDF dust is probably harder to get out of carpet than bong water.

[AlanS17]

Luckily it was commercial carpet. So it wasn't too hard to get the dust out.

[johnm160]

Luckily it was commercial carpet. So it wasn't too hard to get the dust out.

What about the bong water? 

[theCoder]

I prefer cabinet grade birch plywood.  9 to 11 plys. 

I tried that but kept getting splinters.  We went back to 3 ply Charmin.

Tastes great and less filling.

[johnm160]

I cut a lot of plywood for my Tempest project the other day and not only did I find that plywood makes a lot less dust, but I actually prefer the taste of plywood over mdf.....Now if I could just learn how to cut wood with my mouth shut I might be in business.


Kidding aside, the ply did produce a lot less dust, but somehow it does not feel as smooth as I remembered in the store. So I will see how much work finishing it will be. If it is too much work I may have to re think this and try mdf on my next cab. At least then I will have some experience with the pros and cons of each product. If I decide to do that I will be researching respirators before hand though.

[spacies]

John,

Even though ply does taste better, MDF requires a lot less work for a great finish. More like none.
I would invest in a decent respirator and use MDF if you are going to build a few more cabinets.

Time is important these days and now you have the air nailer and glue/block thing going on which is saving you from filling, you are probably going to have to skim the whole side of the cabinet for an above average finish on ply. Which sucks.

I have tried ply on a cabinet and will never use it again for a paint finish. It just wasn't good enough for me. I like it perfect and thats what you get with MDF, unfortunately.

If Tempest has artwork then the art is going to 'sink' into the grain in the ply.

Time to get out the filler mate, sorry 

Another thought is to use a high build surfacer and block that back until its flat.

[johnm160]

Yep tempest has full side art, maybe if I get it printed on a thicker vinyl.....Well I am getting ahead of my self now.

[spacies]

Woah,

Just had a look at a Tempest cab.
That is definately FULL artwork alright. You will probably get away with a lot with that much art! LOL

Can't wait to see it finished.
Are you going to clear coat that art?

[ChadTower]

When I cut MDF I usually do it outside on the edge of my yard with a fan blowing to the lot next door.

[johnm160]

Woah,

Just had a look at a Tempest cab.
That is definately FULL artwork alright. You will probably get away with a lot with that much art! LOL

Can't wait to see it finished.
Are you going to clear coat that art?

Nope not gonna clear coat it. Gonna just peel and stick...LOL The side are will be last I am afraid, I had to make the cabinet a little deeper to hopfully fit in the 19" pc monitor. The place that will custom size the side are for me is gonna cost $181.

That will put a serious hurting on a couple of other projects. I need to build my DK and get the 4 player CP done for my Rampage conversion. When those are done I can think about blowing $200 on side art. Ouch!

My other option is to buy the art from arcadeshop which is only $99 and paint a 1.5" white strip down the back edge. The edge of the art is white anyway, probably no one would notice.....Who am I kidding, I have to keep explaining to people what a tempes is....I could make it green and they would not know the difference.

[johnm160]

When I cut MDF I usually do it outside on the edge of my yard with a fan blowing to the lot next door.

Chad,

Nice idea!

I have a drunk neighbor that I am not too fond of.......Not that I have anything against drunks, I just don't care for him.....

Has anyone tried a wet saw?   

[ChadTower]

Next door to me until recently was a defunct restaurant... thus no harm in MDF dust over there.  Now they're building something new but still, I don't care anyway.

[Xiaou2]

 Use a tablesaw + Dust collector = 96%+  dust removed...

89.724% of all statistics on the intra-nets are false.

Shoot, 96% of the stuff hits the ground immediately anyways. FYI, those tool mounted "dust collectors" are pieces of junk. I've used a sander with one, and a miter saw with one. They don't stop airborne dust, and they still let alot of saw dust go flying.

 Thats Absolute BS.   After cutting MDF sheets,  the airborn dust stays airborn for a good deal of time.
The particales are Very fine, and float a long time... much much longer than any other wood.

 I have no clue about what type of dust collectors you have used..  but the one I have is a
cheaper one and virtually No dust even makes it airborne.   

 Maybe you are talking about tools that supposedly have dust collectors built into them...
that is Not the same as the dust collectors I speak of. 

 Also, the dust collector must be set up properly.  Using the correct diameter hoses..  as
well  as creating as best an airtight sealing as possible.   This forms what is called
a  Down-Draft  table.   Sucking the particales down as they are cut so they can not
float into the air.

  For a Tool such as a Sander,  I have doubts that the dust  can be captured
from a port off the sander itself.   This is why people  build 'down-draft' tables
and sand  over the table. 

 You can also put the 4" collector hose near where you are sanding,  and it should
collect much of the dust..  as dust collectors move Tons of air.   Something
like 600 cubic feet per minute for the cheap ones.