How do you do this to your kids?

[DrewKaree]

The lady who lives next door to us evidently is under the assumption that if you don't scream at the top of your lungs at your children at least four times a day so that neighbors TWO HOUSES AWAY can hear you, then they won't grow up right or listen or whatever other dumbass reason she has.

Yesterday, she was taken to the hospital.  Heart problems.

Add to this the fact that she must run about (and I'm NOT kidding) 280 lbs and she's only about 5'6". 

Today, she's home. 

Natch, I get to listen to her yelling at her daughter - AGAIN.

This woman has the gall to yell her that "IT'S BECAUSE OF ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- LIKE THIS THAT YOU ALMOST KILLED ME YESTERDAY!".

What kind of failure at life do you have to be to think solving a problem or making your kids do what you want them to do can be accomplished by laying a guilt trip like THAT on your kids?

This is quite loaded, but please tell me none of you are as retarded as this woman and that you think she's reprehensible for saying something like that to her KIDS!

 

[ChadTower]

It's bad, but I've seen worse.  Much, much, much worse.

[Dartful Dodger]

so that neighbors TWO HOUSES AWAY can hear you

I'm sorry Drew, but just because they're called mobile homes it doesn't make them houses.

[sez]

so that neighbors TWO HOUSES AWAY can hear you

I'm sorry Drew, but just because they're called mobile homes it doesn't make them houses.

 

[shmokes]

It sounds like you're describing my childhood.   

[Arcadiac]

It sounds like you're describing my childhood.   

Me too and I turned out just fine, just fine jstfmne jsushf, ,[
midSPg}hmSNap;a]ffpm,g,b]Sgs]]anfb 

ARCADIAC!

[NightGod]

Women like that are why public flogging should be re-instated in the US. Seriously, I hope those kids have a father who helps balance out the mother's insanity. My ex can get a bit whacked sometimes (but nothing like that woman), but if she was that bad, I'd be filing for sole custody in a heartbeat.

[Bones]

Evolution used to take care of these type of people but now damn science just keeps saving them....

[thebrownshow]

Evolution used to take care of these type of people but now damn science just keeps saving them....

Problem is that stupid people breed faster.  I bet dartful has like 20 kids.

[JackTucky]

I don't do that.  But my kids are pains in the ass.  Maybe I'll try that.

-J

[Dartful Dodger]

Problem is that stupid people breed faster.  I bet dartful has like 20 kids.

My children's intelligence is in your hands.  

Or at least one of my kids.

[ChadTower]

The worst is when you're running an activity for kids and one of the parents starts doing things like that to their kid in the middle of it.  I've had parents yell some of the worst things at their kids during baseball games.  A couple of times I've had to basically root my feet to the ground to prevent walking over and kicking the crap out of a parent.  That day one of my players showed up with a huge black eye, limping, and barely able to lift an arm I had to ask a couple fathers to physically make sure I didn't kill the kid's father.  The kid couldn't even swing his bat.

[fredster]

Well no damn wonder my kid won't listen to me.

Thanks for the tips Drew!

[ChadTower]

That's post 2004 for Fredster.

Bush won!

[hypernova]

If the kids are relatively young, you might want to call children's services or whatever.

If they're teenagers, you're far too late.

[RetroJames]

Hers is the old, "I can't be bothered to head off trouble before it arrives, so I'll wait until it does then blow my to quickly so I can get back to Springer" approach to parenting.

Too bad for her kids, but I guess the world needs ditchdiggers too.

[DrewKaree]

She's got 3 kids.  There are two teenagers, and one who's the spoiled brat. He's the little bastard type who - check THIS out - looks out the window when I pull up, and hides his hand behind the curtain so mom can't see him, and flips me the bird.  I've already spoken to her about him, she told him "knock it off".  That's it.  Now I just lean on the horn when he's doing it.  Dunno why, as it's evident mom won't do a darned thing to him.  I've ratted him out when I've SEEN him actively getting his sister in trouble, and it's almost as if I said the magic word that makes her go calm.

Dad divorced her a while ago.  Oddly enough, he lives 2 houses away from my parents.  He's a BIGGER loser than SHE is.  Too much stuff to go into, but there's a reason the kids AREN'T living with him

She treats the two older kids like complete dirt.  I've actually called child services WHILE she was in the middle of a tirade (they usually go on for 10-15 minutes) and let them listen to how she acts.  They tell me there's not a whole lot they can do if all she's doing is yelling at them. 

so that neighbors TWO HOUSES AWAY can hear you

I'm sorry Drew, but just because they're called mobile homes it doesn't make them houses.

Once you take the wheels off, they're no longer mobile.  All that's left are "homes".  I win

I don't do that.  But my kids are pains in the ass.  Maybe I'll try that.

-J

I've got yer address, Jersey boy....don't make me pull this car over and...now look what you've done to me!

[Spaz Monkey]

I don't need to yell at my kids; I find waving the gun around works just fine.   

(Paraphrased from Dennis Leary)

[AtomSmasher]

Growing up my dad had a leather belt he would spank us with if we did something really bad, he called the belt the hearing aid because it got us to listen to him.  I think he only used it a couple of times, but it became kind of a standard threat to get us to behave.

A few years ago I found a journal I did sometime around first grade.  Once a week we would draw a picture and write a sentence or two about anything we wanted.  Most of them were about standard kid stuff, playing with friends, talking about my pets, etc.  but one of the pictures was stick figures of my dad rearing back with a belt with a word bubble saying "Rawr!!" and me cowering below him saying "Help me!!", the sentence I wrote was something like "I don't like getting hit with the belt".  Child services would all over that now a days, but back then getting spanked was pretty common.  Looking back, I don't even remember the spankings being that horrible, but that drawing sure was funny to find. 

[NightGod]

You teacher probably called your dad to ask for tips on getting the best swing...

[ChadTower]

My brother made a similar picture in school in the late 80s.  He was probably 5-6 years old.  Mom with a giant metal spoon, him cowering.  The school did call us all in and we had all these tense meetings about it.  I was an early teen at the time.

[J_K_M_A_N]

I went to a Catholic school. I got beat at home AND at school. 

My dad would often yell at us, but not things like that. I try not to do that to my son but I still catch myself doing it sometimes. I usually apologize later for yelling and we talk about it calmly and it works out pretty well. He is a good kid. Much better than I was.

It is kinda weird how you sometimes act just like your parents when you are really trying not to. It it like they are channeling through you. ---daisies---!

J_K_M_A_N

[RandyT]

So....how many of you good folks who had some tough discipline and an occasional butt-tanning went to school and shot your principal and/or classmates?  (sorry, was that too intense for EE?)

But yeah, I hate screamers too.  My ex would do that with the kids.  It wasn't long before the message got lost in the volume and they just tuned her out.  Kids need boundaries today, but they are getting harder and harder to put in place.  About the only option a parent has is screaming it seems, and you see how well that works.

And no, I'm not advocating beating the snot out of your kid.  Just good parenting that might include an occasional display of who's really in charge of a situation. 


Drew, didn't your mom tell you not to let that little bully rile you up?  You're just playing into his evil little bird launchers 


RandyT

*edit* typos

[MYX]

I remember the 3 spankings that my dad gave me. Usually my mom would hand out the enforcement. If it was a situation of extreme seriousness...She pulled out the nuke and my dad would step in. It was the kind of thing that would make your innards turn to jelly to think about. Usually my dads hand (no paddle, or belt or switch, just a bare hand) would swell to about 14 times normal size. It was usually about 4 or 5 smacks on the butt. But, the pain would travel straight from the butt receptors all the way through the body. This was usually accompanied with a sonic boom as well. Lets just say, the fear of this kept my brother and I out of trouble... Well usually... Well, lets just say we learned how not to get caught.

The point is, I think there is a place in discipline for spankings. It used to be acceptable to get swats from the principal. (Something I know nothing about  ). But there was a limit to what I would do or how I would act at school. I also knew that there was no room for disrespect to a teacher. This would result in the punishment at school and the a follow up at home. Today's kids know that the worst that will happen is that they will be SPOKEN to STRONGLY, but not yelled at at school and usually a yell at home. There are NO consequences to their actions. Unfortunately we are the generation of kids that when they were growing up said "I will never spank MY kids" and actually stuck to it.

I am sorry, but sometimes a kid will get so wrapped up in themselves that the only way to wake em up is a good swap on the butt. There is a good reason why God Padded the butt. You can spank it and it will hurt for a little while, but no damage is done.

A parrent should never hit a kid in anger. When I say hit I am referring to more than the swat on the rear. I am saying HIT  as to inflict damage. There is no parenting in breaking a kid. It does nothing but break their self esteem and their spirit and their heart. Chad, I think it is good that you didn't plow into that guy because you would be in jail, not the jacka$$ that did the REAL damage. But it might be a good idea to confront him with a LOT of other dads accompanying you. Perhaps an ultimatum...Do it again and all of us will be paying you a visit. Or give a call to child protective services.
How can hitting a kid in the eye be teaching a lesson. Ghaw. 

I am not the greatest dad. I do yell at times. Not like your friend over there Drew. I try to build my kids up, not tear them down. There is too many negitives already in the world, they do not need it from the one place that is supposed to be safe.

Sadly, though not true, that kid somehow is going to feel responsible if that lady does in fact end up dying. 

[shmokes]

The point is, I think there is a place in discipline for spankings.

I don't.

[ChadTower]

Depends on the kid.  I didn't really need them (though I still got more than my share).

My brother needed them.  He just didn't listen or learn.

[NightGod]

The point is, I think there is a place in discipline for spankings.

I don't.

I do.

And I've got two children that are so well behaved that they get complimented by strangers to prove it's effectiveness. Haven't had to spank either of them in years, but it was an effective tool when they were too young to reason with.

[shmokes]

I'll see your two kids and raise you the three kids from Drew's original post.

My wife has never been spanked (not by her parents anyway  ).  She's never been in trouble in her life.  When she talks about breaking rules she talks about getting home half an hour after curfew one or two times.  It's hillarious.  My family was exactly the opposite and once we hit teenage years, one-by-one, we rebelled big time.  I've got three high-school drop out siblings, one in rehab, another that is all cleaned up, but was heavily into drugs.  All kinds of problems.

In fact, neither your story, nor mine proves anything.  They're isolated incidents.  I think that spanking is harmful, but that your love for your kids, and the time and devotion you give them, probably outweighs the damage spanking has done and you've got good kids in spite of it.  I'd guess that you'd say that my parents (as well as Drew's neighbor) needed to add some love and quality time and devotion to their kids instead of relying exclusively on the coporal punishment.

But try to find some statistical evidence that parents, in general, who think spanking is okay have better behaved kids than those who think its wrong and you won't find it.  You will find exactly the opposite.

[saint]

Three kids, never spanked them, never will. I get compliments on how well behaved they are on a regular basis.

People shouldn't confuse lack of spanking with a lack of discipline. My kids face consequences if they misbehave, but they don't get smacked.

[shmokes]

Don't get me wrong.  I don't think kids shouldn't be punished.  I think they should have toys confiscated, priviledges revoked, be put in time-outs, etc.  I just don't think that using the physical advantage you have over your kids is acceptable.  I cannot think of a reason why it's not okay for a man to hit a woman, but it's okay for an adult to hit a child, when the size and strength disparity is all the more pronounced.  I think it also teaches children that having a physical advantage over another person gives the stronger a legitimate authority to exert their will over the weaker.

I think of those drawings that Chad and AtomSmasher describe and we're talking about feelings of genuine fear and helplessness.  And how could you not feel that way as a child.  Adults are ginormous.  Think of how helpless a kid feels when he's in 5th grade getting bullied by a sixth grader who's only maybe 20% bigger than him and then think of how they feel when they get violence or the threat of violence, not only from someone who is 500% bigger than them but who also is that little kid's greatest protector and security. 

I just think it ain't right, it gives unhealthy, mixed messages, and that any possible good that can come of it can be accomplished in ways that don't carry with them the negative baggage that corporal punishment does.

[horseboy]

I just don't think that using the physical advantage you have over your kids is acceptable.  I cannot think of a reason why it's not okay for a man to hit a woman, but it's okay for an adult to hit a child, when the size and strength disparity is all the more pronounced.  I think it also teaches children that having a physical advantage over another person gives the stronger a legitimate authority to exert their will over the weaker.

Now I think you might be getting spanking confused with hitting. I don't think anyone on here is going to tell you it is right to hit a child. I am quite sure that there are varying degrees of force that some people may use in there spankings, and I am sure that some of them cross that fine line into abuse. My parents spanked us, but 20 minutes later you could pull my pants down and not find a mark on me. They certainly tried many other forms of punishment before spanking. When they had to, though, they would do it, and I would learn my lesson in the end (pun intended).

I don't think there is anything wrong with spanking if you aren't crossing the line. I also think it is a little ridiculous to compare spanking a kid to hitting a woman. When you hit someone you do it hard, usually just about as hard as you can. I think most parents that spanked their kids would probably use about 5% of their total force.

To be fair, though, my daughter is 8 months old and I couldn't even begin to fathom spanking her.


--edit--
That 5% is just a ridiculous estimate since there is absolutely no way to quantify that, but you get the point. 

[ChadTower]

Three kids, never spanked them, never will. I get compliments on how well behaved they are on a regular basis.

Let's say you have a 5 year old who runs into the main street.  Often.  Chasing balls, not paying attention, once in a while just to hear the screech of tires.  Does it after being yelled at, being grounded, being talked to, knows it's wrong, knows it will get him killed.  Still does it.  Thinks it is funny.  I have known kids like that.

What do you do?

Some kids respond to nothing else.  Sometimes the result is just more important than communication.

[RandyT]

The point is, I think there is a place in discipline for spankings.

I don't.

Dear Santa Claus,

Please bring shmokes's another child.   One of those who, at 5 years old, kicks strangers and hits him, calls him names and tells him "I hate you, Daddy" in public, like many I have personally witnessed.  I don't want him to suffer, only to have a point of reference.  You can take him back when he gets one.

Thank you,
RandyT

[saint]

Whatever you as a parent think is appropriate of course, including spanking. I'm not going to try to tell someone they shouldn't spank -- but I've never found it necessary with all the other tools I have available to me as a parent. I have heard of situations where nothing else works, and if the only way you have to get through to a child is to spank then by all means do what you have to do... I do firmly believe people spank way too often and too easily as a first resort instead of a last resort, but I don't advocate banning spanking.

I don't believe I will ever spank my children. In ten years of parenting so far it has not been necessary.

--- saint

Three kids, never spanked them, never will. I get compliments on how well behaved they are on a regular basis.

Let's say you have a 5 year old who runs into the main street.  Often.  Chasing balls, not paying attention, once in a while just to hear the screech of tires.  Does it after being yelled at, being grounded, being talked to, knows it's wrong, knows it will get him killed.  Still does it.  Thinks it is funny.  I have known kids like that.

What do you do?

Some kids respond to nothing else.  Sometimes the result is just more important than communication.

[shmokes]

If I walked in on my son sexually molesting my daughter or in the process of cutting the throat of the nieghbor's toddler as a sacrifice to a pagan god, I would beat the living ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of him. 

Painting me into a more extreme position than the one I am actually presenting, or in Randy's case just being a drama queen in general, is a convenient, but not very constructive debate tactic.

A kid that finds himself alone in his room (or his parent's room if his is too much fun) for an hour every time he runs into the street is going to learn just as well or better, 99 times out of 100, than a kid that gets swatted by his parent.

And spanking is hitting.  It's assinine to suggest otherwise.  Hitting is a generalized term that encompasses spanking, just as it encompasses slapping, punching, judo chopping  , running into something with your car and striking a baseball with a bat.  Spanking is generally less severe than slapping (probably for no reason other than the butt has more padding and is sometimes separated from the hand/wooden spoon/willow/Hotwheels^TM bendy racetrack segment/belt/spatula by up to three layers of fabric), which is generally less severe than punching, which is less severe than running someone over with your car.  But you've gotta be crazy to say that spanking isn't hitting when doing the exact same thing to the face or a countertop would clearly qualify as hitting someone in the face or hitting a countertop with your hand.

If you have to redefine the verb "hit" to make you feel better about your actions you REALLY should reconsider whether or not you should be spanking your kids.   

[shmokes]

Also consider, when deciding whether spanking is hitting, that the purpose of spanking is to inflict pain.  You don't want to inflict permanent damage, and you apparently want the mark to be one that will disappear within 20 minutes, but there's no point to it if pain is not inflicted.  Spanking without pain would be like grounding your kid from riding bikes when he doesn't own a bike or know anybody who does.  It's only a punishment if it hurts.

[horseboy]

I never said it didn't hurt. When you are kid most things like that are gonna hurt. My point was that they did it hard enough to make a point, but not hard enough to do much else (like cause permanent damage or leave a bruise).

[ChadTower]

Also consider, when deciding whether spanking is hitting, that the purpose of spanking is to inflict pain.  You don't want to inflict permanent damage, and you apparently want the mark to be one that will disappear within 20 minutes, but there's no point to it if pain is not inflicted.  Spanking without pain would be like grounding your kid from riding bikes when he doesn't own a bike or know anybody who does.  It's only a punishment if it hurts.

You should revisit stuff like this when you have more experience.  Spanking, on many kids, has a far stronger emotional pain than physical pain.  It's all individual.  Some kids won't listen unless they think they're going to get their ass tanned.  Other kids will cry if you whack them lightly in the back of the head.  It's all about how it is received.

As someone who got spanked a lot as a kid I don't spank my kids much at all.  I've pretty much only done it when their safety was at risk, like when my son decided it was a good idea to pull pots from the stovetop.  Repeatedly, maybe 7-8 times.  I haven't ever done anything like the stuff I got pretty often as a kid. 

Those beatings that do leave marks, the ones you mention, aren't all that painful after a while.  The kid just stops caring much about it.  It's gonna happen, you're gonna have a black eye or bruised ribs, and they'll go away.  Not that those are the types kids should ever get but I can tell you from experience that aside from the actual moment the pain isn't as much as people would think.  At least not in the way people think.

[shmokes]

Chad, that's just another position of convenience.  I'm automatically wrong because I only have one two-month old baby. 

Drew's neighbor has more experience than me.  The ladies who drowned their kids, the one in the bathtub, the other by pushing the car into the lake, have far more experience than me.  There are millions of Americans who don't spank their kids ever.  This isn't some wacky, unheard of position that I'm bound to renounce once I understand the realities of parenting.  And if I did renounce it, it wouldn't be any more or less valid.

FWIW, I have fourteen siblings (I'm number 9), the yougest of which are currently 10 and 12.  I've seen a lot of parenting.  I may not be right, but what makes spanking, or name-calling, or grounding, or rewarding, or reasoning, or any other behavior modification tactic good or bad isn't whether I grow up and decide to use it.  I don't mean to say that my childhood qualifies me as an expert in parenting, but I also see no reason to think that the idea of never spanking your kids is some kind of impossible fantasy that only a person who's never raised his own kids could possibly dream up.  Millions of people do it.  Everywhere.  And their kids seem to turn out at least as well-balanced as the kids who get spanked, and probably quite a bit better than most kids who get the severe stuff.

Also, for the record, I figured I had already made clear that it's the emotional damage that concerns me with spanking.  The discussion about pain was meant mainly for the side-argument about whether spanking and hitting are two different things.

[ChadTower]

Chad, that's just another position of convenience.  I'm automatically wrong because I only have one two-month old baby. 

Sigh.  I didn't say you're wrong.  I am saying that I have seen many situations where your comments didn't work given the parties involved.  They are too narrow, IMO.

You are way too quick to find a reason to disqualify a person's comments entirely if they disagree with your opinions.