WG 19K7101 problems

[kyouteki]

I have a 25" W-G 19K7101 (I think, that's what this cab came with stock) that is doing a weird flicker when I turn it on. Does this regardless of if a signal is being applied or not, though the monitor -sounds- different when a signal is being applied. I just got this cab and I've had to replace the fuses both on the power supply and the monitor's PCB.

Anyway, adjusting the vertical and horizontal hold didn't make any appreciable difference. I'm not quite sure what I'm doing or what I should mess with...the flyback, maybe?

[Lutus]

Well, if you had to replace fuses then something is up.  Not necessarily all the time but something cause them to blow.  First things first...

1.  Remove the chassis and examine it for dry solder joints around the flyback

2.  Examine the flyback for cracks or signs of structure damage.

3.  Replace the capacitors (cap kit)

While you are at it take voltage measurements on the input to the monitor.  If this seems fine (around 120V I believe, could be wrong) then check the B+ voltage.

DONT touch the B+ voltage adjustments but DO take a voltage measurement. 

Ok.... Go!!!   

[eccs19]

Can't help you out with the monitor problem, but I've got that same cab, and I must say, your seems to be in REALLY nice shape. Mine needs work, but it does work.  Your will be a nice addition once you get it working.

[kyouteki]

Well, if you had to replace fuses then something is up.  Not necessarily all the time but something cause them to blow.  First things first...

Well, I think the fuses were blown because the monitor's board was touching the frame (and thus was grounded). Somebody removed the screws on the board and it shifted during shipping. The fuses stopped blowing when I fixed that.

[Lutus]

You got those voltages?   

[kyouteki]

Won't be able to until tomorrow...it's at a warehouse I only have sporadic access to.

[SirPeale]

I see that this is a Neo Geo cab, but I also see a PC in the back there.  What kind of signal are you feeding this beastie?

And as said before, cracked solder joints (check the entire chassis, but esp on the flyback and the yoke) and bad caps are a culprit.

[kyouteki]

It does this when no signal is applied, as well as when I have video being passed to it. But when I was passing video to it, it was through a J-PAC...both console, and standard resolution (tried to bring up Puzzle Bobble). Nothing changed when signals were applied, except a slight increase of the frequency of the monitor whine. (The whine was very high frequency, the guy helping me couldn't hear it.)

[SirPeale]

Are you using an ArcadeVGA?

[kyouteki]

Oh, nope, sorry. Forgot to put that in my post. It's a Matrox G400. I'm running Gentoo Linux and AdvanceMAME.

[Lutus]

Wouldn't worry too much about the computer and the signal being applied until you can get the monitor to look right by itself with no signal applied.

[SirPeale]

Wouldn't worry too much about the computer and the signal being applied until you can get the monitor to look right by itself with no signal applied.

That's the thing; proper diagnosis will require a proper signal going to the monitor.  What I'm seeing on that picture looks like the screen voltage is turned up too high among other things.

The J-PAC does have the video amp built in, so that eliminates whether or not the signal is strong enough.  But I'm thinking that unless his Matrox card is putting out the correct frequency he'd be getting crap on screen.

Do you have a game board to hook up to it so you can have a proper signal?

[kyouteki]

I don't have a true game board to test the machine with, nor do I have access to one. However, the lights on the J-PAC indicate that it is getting a proper 15KHz signal.

[SirPeale]

I don't have a true game board to test the machine with, nor do I have access to one. However, the lights on the J-PAC indicate that it is getting a proper 15KHz signal.

Hm...even if it wasn't, you should still see something on screen.  A doubled image, for example.

Well, examine the board for cracked solder joints first, and touch them up.  That's one thing you can do while you're waiting for a cap kit to arrive.  Esp. since K7000s are so easy to install and remove.

[kyouteki]

The B+ voltage is within spec. I just ordered a cap kit/flyback from Bob Roberts, so we'll see if that helps.

What are the chances that it's something other than the caps or flyback? There's a place in town that services W-G monitors, but they charge $50/hr plus parts, and I have a feeling that if the repair takes more than a couple of hours that I wouldn't be able to afford it.

Just for fun, here are some more pictures of the messed up monitor.

[grantspain]

is that the picture without a signal?

[kyouteki]

Yes it is, though as I said, it doesn't appear any differently when a signal is applied - the only way I can tell it's getting anything at all is an audible change.

[kyouteki]

Okay, I was able to discharge my monitor and get the PCBs out of the back of the cabinet, and...wow. This is a mess. Sloppy soldering, and on the bottom...are those wires and capacitors supposed to be there? It doesn't really look like it.

Anyway, please look at these pictures, o monitor gurus, and let me know if there is anything I should do/watch out for.

Click on the links to get to the flickr pages, where you can get super-big versions

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyouteki/250109247/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyouteki/250115606/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/kyouteki/250115607/

[grantspain]

its a long time since i worked on a 7000 chassis,two things-have you checked your adjustments(contrast,colour gains etc) because the info you have supplied points to one of three problems;
1-badly adjusted monitor(screen volts too high,contrast/colours too low,horizontal hold)
2-missing signal input(r,g,b)
3-blanking problem(is there a i.c lm1309 on the neck card)
start in this order,but i really have a feeling your adjustments are just out-it is a very rare thing to get a monitor which shows a raster but does not show a picture when signal is applied
get yourself a mirror and start by turning down the screen volts on the flyback until the lines go,then turn up your contrast and the colour gains on the neck card,then check you hold adjustments

[SirPeale]

...are those wires and capacitors supposed to be there? It doesn't really look like it.

Yes.

[Ken Layton]

What you have is a fine example of typical Wells-Gardner factory soldering! Yes, all those resistors, capacitors and wires are SUPPOSSED to be there on the foil side of the board. They are part of the undocumented factory changes during the production run. DON'T TOUCH THEM---LEAVE 'EM ALONE!

[kyouteki]

What you have is a fine example of typical Wells-Gardner factory soldering! Yes, all those resistors, capacitors and wires are SUPPOSSED to be there on the foil side of the board. They are part of the undocumented factory changes during the production run. DON'T TOUCH THEM---LEAVE 'EM ALONE!

It's very professional-looking. :p I replaced the caps and flyback yesterday, I'm reinstalling the chassis today. Wish me luck.

[kyouteki]

Success! At least, now, I have an image.



Now, here's another question - how do you adjust convergence on these monitors?

[SirPeale]

Now, here's another question - how do you adjust convergence on these monitors?

So, what did you do to fix your problem?

edit: caps and flyback.  Just re-read the thread.

And to adjust convergence, you have to adjust your purity rings.  But what makes you say convergence?  Can you show a close-up of an area that the convergence is off?

A lot of monitors have convergence is off a tiny bit in a corner.  I wouldn't play with it unless the convergence is severe.

[kyouteki]

Replacing the flyback transformer did the job. Let's see if I have any pictures of the convergence problem...





Also, I have these annoying lines at the top of my screen. This is at minimum V.Size, it gets even worse if I increase it. It's like the image is scanning past the monitor and back down on itself, except I can't get rid of them (except by messing with settings in some games).

[SirPeale]

Replacing the flyback transformer did the job. Let's see if I have any pictures of the convergence problem...

That's it?  That's not bad.  I wouldn't screw with it, if I were you.

Also, I have these annoying lines at the top of my screen. This is at minimum V.Size, it gets even worse if I increase it. It's like the image is scanning past the monitor and back down on itself, except I can't get rid of them (except by messing with settings in some games).

That's an easy one.  Adjust your 50/60Hz pot.  It's right smack in the middle in the back.

[Ken Layton]

Visit www.jstookey.com/arcade/WG_25k7191/ for more information and pictures of your chassis. It shows the 50/60 pot location too.

[kyouteki]

I have a feeling part of the problem is my display config...games are playing in modes way higher than they should be. For example, Street Fighter II is playing in 832x240 with a pixclock of 18MHz. I have a Matrox G400 and a J-PAC...what should my settings look like?

[MonMotha]

The G400 has a lower limit on its dot clock of (I think) 16MHz.  You can fudge things around a bit by multiplying the horizontal resolution by N and displaying each pixel N times in succession.  The net effect is to do nothing (the monitor has no clue what the horizontal resolution is) except raise the dot clock up into the range of what the card can do.  I do this all the time to get a TV compatible signal out of my old G100.  I usually end up at 1440x480 or so.  I'm guessing that MAME is doing the same to hit a mode that your card is capable of.

[kyouteki]

Any ideas on why I can't get the picture any larger without the picture rolling over on itself?