*Breaking News* OMG They were released thanks to public outcry!!

[KenToad]

*Edit* This is already old news.  They were released today.   

My family is still in shock after learning of the arrest and subsequent railroading into a jail sentence experienced by my cousin Giles.  Read more at the links below and please sign the online petition to help get my cousin and his friend out of jail. 

Thanks,
Ian

Free David Siller and Giles Charle

First Local Story

Store owner states that they did not want to prosecute for felony

District Attorney's response (with video link ... watch them squirm)

Partial transcript of meeting at DA's office

Editorial from Steamboat Springs paper suggesting a plea reversal and a more fitting sentence

Rocky Mountain News Columnist Bill Johnson (with a good summary of events)

Direct Link to Online Petition

Steamboat Springs news story detailing their release after 10 total days in jail(with pictures and video)

[ChadTower]

Wait until they see the railroading he gets *in* jail.   

EDIT:  Who is the Rainbow Family?  I'm trying to plough through the second link but there is very little useful info there.

[Stingray]

Wow, and all they took was rotting vegetables? That's just stupid.

-S

[ChadTower]

It is but this really looks like it was a frequent occurrence in the area.  These comments repeatedly say things like "We had to make an example of someone".  You only need an example when something happens often.  The cops probably couldn't catch the people stealing real stuff so when they caught these guys they nailed them to the wall.

[KenToad]

I'm watching the video that is on the link for the District Attorney's Response.  This is crazy.  The store owner is pissed, vehemently claiming that the store was not broken into while the DA and the Assistant DA spin a web of lies based solely on the initial police report.

Insanity!

*Edit* the video cuts off just after the owner of the supposedly burglarized store says "Is it my turn to respond?"   

[ChadTower]

The charges listed in the reports don't say breaking and entering, they say "misdemeanor trespass".  They also say "hopped the fence".

How does "misdemeanor trespass" = "6 months in prison"?  That's the key there.

[KenToad]

The charges listed in the reports don't say breaking and entering, they say "misdemeanor trespass".  They also say "hopped the fence".

How does "misdemeanor trespass" = "6 months in prison"?  That's the key there.

That's really what's crazy.  I know.  That's insane to put some human beings in jail for six months with that kind of plea bargain.  They couldn't take the felony bargain, which had less time, because they both want to go to graduate school and they cherish their voting rights. 

I will not be visiting Steamboat Springs and its Gestapo-style law enforcement community anytime soon.

[ChadTower]

Well, to be accurate, they did commit misdemeanor trespass.  That is stated as fact in every report.

It's the DA and Judge that somehow translated misdemeanor trespass to 6 months in jail.  And who defended them?  A Snickers bar?  What attorney, ever, says "oh, you have no criminal record, and they're charging you with a crime you didn't commit and they have no evidence, but you should go to jail for 6 months to avoid the risk of losing a case that is unwinnable for the prosecution".

Something is being left out here.  Something big.

[Ed_McCarron]

Wait until they see the railroading he gets *in* jail.   

EDIT:  Who is the Rainbow Family?  I'm trying to plough through the second link but there is very little useful info there.

Sounds like a bunch of hippies that missed out on the '60s.

We join together (preferably in a natural setting) to renew our commitment to a better way of life, to be closer to the Earth, and to share Love & Joy with one another.

[KenToad]

No, nothing is being left out.  Giles and David were advised by several lawyers to avoid the possiblity of a trial for a felony in a town full of people who are unsympathetic to the hippies who annually invade the area for their peace, love and unpatriotic activities (like upside-down American Flags ... according the conservatives, that is unpatriotic and punishable). 

Neither Giles or David argues that they trespassed, but a felony basically disenfranchises you for life.  It must go on every application for job or college and kills your right to vote in several states.  Also, they would at least have had a crazy probation for several years where they would have had to apply to leave the state of Colorado. 

Also, I don't think the state would have bothered to call any witnesses.  They had the police report and that was good enough.  The owners really were too little too late in this case.  After they found out about the jail sentence, they became vehement defenders of one point:  that their store was not broken into.  However, the DA and her accomplices do not seem to care.   

[ChadTower]

Also, I don't think the state would have bothered to call any witnesses.  They had the police report and that was good enough.

Right... so, if it really is a railroad like that, and 6 months in jail is NOT a standard sentence for misdemeanor trespass... if the judge tosses that at them, then they appeal since they are given an out of scale punishment based on their crime.  And it likely works since the state judge does not have the same bias against the hippies. 

This sounds more and more like they already HAD a suspended sentence from a previous conviction.  Something hanging over their head already that this was in violation of... maybe already on probation.

[hypernova]

I was under the impression that once something is in a trash can oustide, it becomes public property.

At least that's how it is in Ohio when it comes to residential trash.  When it's set out for pickup, it's fair game.  That's what I remember from government in high school.  Where the trash can had to be, I'm not sure.

[KenToad]

Also, I don't think the state would have bothered to call any witnesses.  They had the police report and that was good enough.

Right... so, if it really is a railroad like that, and 6 months in jail is NOT a standard sentence for misdemeanor trespass... if the judge tosses that at them, then they appeal since they are given an out of scale punishment based on their crime.  And it likely works since the state judge does not have the same bias against the hippies. 

This sounds more and more like they already HAD a suspended sentence from a previous conviction.  Something hanging over their head already that this was in violation of... maybe already on probation.

You'll find the answers to all this in the multitude of comments at the end of those articles, but the sentence was determined beforehand by the DA's office.  That was clarified by someone and I'll try to find the comment again because he explained it better than I can.  I can certainly attest that they did not have anything prior or any kind of probation.  My cousin has a degree in social work and, he is a hippie and certainly doesn't follow all the laws that he disagrees with, such as legality of the widespread dumping of perfectly edible food to keep the prices high. 

This is a product of the screwball plea bargaining system we have here in this country and one of many reasons why so many tax dollars are wasted on overcrowded jails full of minor drug offenders and the like.  I really don't know how well an appeal would work in this case or if the state really considers this punishment out-of-scale.  It seems that you and I and probably a lot of other people do, however. 

One thing's for sure:  Steamboat Springs depends upon tourist revenue and I hope this one comes down hard economically.  I'd hate to think what else might be a misdemeanor with jail time in that town ... i.e. jaywalking, loitering, missing the trash can (littering), running a red light will probably get you a year on the chain gang if you don't smell nice. 

So I'll get off it now.  Please take a moment to sign the online petition if you're as disgusted by this travesty as I am.

Thanks,
Ian

[SirPeale]

Posted here:

http://www.dumpsterworld.com/index.php?topic=3943.from1085273168#new

[ChadTower]

I was under the impression that once something is in a trash can oustide, it becomes public property.

Not when it's still on private property.  They jumped a fence to get to it.

[DrewKaree]

My cousin has a degree in social work and, he is a hippie and certainly doesn't follow all the laws that he disagrees with, such as legality of the widespread dumping of perfectly edible food to keep the prices high. 

First, that's not a law he has to worry about following.  Second, your issue with dumping food has nothing to do with keeping prices high, it has to do with people who get the slightest bit ill from something that, WHILE EDIBLE, is said to require disposal, and then they turn around and sue the store owner.

It's happened in the past (divers getting sick and suing the owners).

Then we get to see Dateline stories about "perfectly edible" meat getting relabeled and sold, something that, according to your view, would be keeping prices LOWER, and everyone is up in arms over that store/company NOT THROWING AWAY "perfectly edible food".

There is no winning when you determine the rules as you go along, and people have problems with defining those rules as you go along.  It's why we have elections every so often.

Oh yeah, and those elections also help change the people in charge of the screwball plea bargaining system you have in place - in that STATE.  Why you're confusing that with a FEDERAL plea bargan, I have no idea, other than your emotions are running high.

There is no gauging "how well" an appeal will work.  It either will, or won't.  If you feel as strongly about it as you're appearing to be, it'd be worth it to you.  Why are you even hesitating a second on whether or not it'd be smart to appeal?  That hesitation is what GETS you the screwball system you're talking about - someone is indecisive, and a decision has to be made.  Compromise comes into play, and you don't like the particular compromise in this situation. 

It certainly appears that Chad's instincts are leading in the right direction.  There's something that seems to be missing.

[KenToad]

True, old and/or improperly processed meat does make people sick.  Vegetables, even rotting ones, are a thousand times safer, but I see your point.  Anyway, Drew, do you see the point in giving some non-violent offenders six months in jail for a misdemeanor like trespassing?  Even the owner, the so-called victim, is offended by this.  I would have thought that you, of all people on this forum, would be as incensed as I am (I remember your keen sense of justice, even if our politics may differ). 

You're right, though, my emotions are running high.  I also updated the list of media links on the first post, if anyone's interested.  It's a lot to digest, but all the answers to this troubling case are there, so I'll try to let those articles speak more for themselves and not let my emotions get in the way.

Thanks,
Ian

[KenToad]

Double post here, but my cousin and his friend were just released from prison today.  How's that for the effects of public outrage on a flawed system!!  Here's the quote also available on the first link posted on the first post of this thread:

   This is David and Giles... This email is the breaking news! At 3:30pm this evening we were informed of our release from jail. We were released 3 hours later and now for the first time I am viewing your website!

    First and most important, thank you so much! The outpouring of support is amazing. If you get this email tonight, you can update the site, and also in the morning a news report will be in the steamboat pilot with our release story.
    Again, thank you so much. I will be in touch tomorrow with more thanks. Now, since I just got out less than an hour ago, it is time to celebrate a little.

    Give a hip hip horrah for the truth being out and freedom for us, the LITTLE guy. ITs good news for dumpster divers everywhere. I am glad that the one person who didn't see the reality of this situation finally gave in or began to see what commotion he was causing.

    Yours,
    David

This is really excellent and makes my day!!  More good news tomorrow.       

[NightGod]

For future reference, they should try going up to the store owners and saying something like "we run a chicken farm and would love the chance to purchase your outdated vegetables for use as feed-even if you won't accept money, we'd appreciate the chance to take it from your dumpster and throw it in our truck"

You'd be suprised how accomadating most store owners would be about it. I worked for a place that made fresh food and we gave away about 200 pounds of outdated but otherwise good food (cooked meat and fresh veggies and fruit) to farmers for that very use twice a week. Even helped them load it in the truck. It meant we didn't have to pay the trash bill on it, since that is done by weight. For all I know, they took it home and fed a commune of 50 people with it-all that mattered was the purpose they stated for it and the fact that they showed up on time to pick it up.

[DrewKaree]

Anyway, Drew, do you see the point in giving some non-violent offenders six months in jail for a misdemeanor like trespassing?  Even the owner, the so-called victim, is offended by this.  I would have thought that you, of all people on this forum, would be as incensed as I am (I remember your keen sense of justice, even if our politics may differ).

I don't see the point, neither do I understand all the facts in the case (or believe they are all out on the table).  It certainly seems screwy, but once you start bringing your emotions into it, you lose all perspective and possibly your ability to reason something out. 

It seems like it'd be a no-brainer to me to appeal, since there's nothing to be gained by NOT appealing, other than a 6-month sentence. 

To me, it appears as if there is an abuse of power, and the appeal not only could and would make news if it was overturned due to the evidently trivial nature that they were hauled off for, but you might get enough attention that the people responsible for the problems they're going through are removed from office.

If the place is nice enough (and obviously it is, since your relatives chose to be there), then why let the people "in charge" get away with what you view as wrong?  Isn't that why we vote in this country?  We the people and such?  Cooler heads generally prevail, and you tend to make a better case when you don't go off on tangents because it distracts from the original message (at least it did for me), and solutions or steps for you to take come quicker than when wading through all that.

Just sayin' is all.  Tell me to piss up a rope

[jbox]

It meant we didn't have to pay the trash bill on it, since that is done by weight.

I suspect that if you were nice, prompt & reliable about it you would almost certainly get the "waste" for free from most every owner-run business for this one fact alone. In fact, I recall reading something about a market for a hybrid oil/rodant engine in another thread. 

[shardian]

When I worked produce at Kroger's, I gave scrap lettuce and other misc. non-sellable produce to a few farmers and rabbit breeders in the area. They asked first, and I filled them up a big box of stuff.

As to public domain of trash, I am pretty sure that dumpsters are not included in that. They are considered property, and the trash is collected by a private firm.

One last note.. there was an episode of King of the Hill when Hank and Bobby went camping and their campground was invaded by the Rainbow Family hippies. The hippies kept stealing all of Hank's stuff, and Bobby became a convert. That was a funny episode.

[ChadTower]

I suspect that if you were nice, prompt & reliable about it you would almost certainly get the "waste" for free from most every owner-run business for this one fact alone.

A LOT of owner-run businesses would flat out refuse because of liability.  A smart owner would at the very least make you sign a complete waiver of liability so they can't get sued if something bad happens related to what you took.  No one wants to lose their hard earned small business because you took some old veggies, ground them up to feed to pigs, and then the pigs died later that week.

[shardian]

I suspect that if you were nice, prompt & reliable about it you would almost certainly get the "waste" for free from most every owner-run business for this one fact alone.

A LOT of owner-run businesses would flat out refuse because of liability.  A smart owner would at the very least make you sign a complete waiver of liability so they can't get sued if something bad happens related to what you took.  No one wants to lose their hard earned small business because you took some old veggies, ground them up to feed to pigs, and then the pigs died later that week.

...or if you got sick eating some rat-grease fried doughnuts. 

Accountability - Ya gotta love the lack of it in the world today. 

[ChadTower]

...or if you got sick eating some rat-grease fried doughnuts. 

Accountability - Ya gotta love the lack of it in the world today. 

I made an extra $5 that day.  The owner gave me a fiver to taste one of those donuts to make sure they didn't taste like chicken or something.

[hypernova]

Now that they're out of jail, can we make fun of 'em again?

Damn hippies!