backpain advice requested.

[michelevit]

I installed some sprinklers about two months ago and did
a fair amount of digging and trenching. I have since
developed some pretty good back pain. I thought that time
would make the pain subside. the pain is mostly in my lower back.

I am still in a far amount of pain and I have undergone a basic
physical but the doctor just gave me some basic 'take two
aspirin' and call me in the morning.

some coworkers and friends have suggested some alternatives
like chircractors and also accupuncture.

any advice is greatly appreciated. I have a hard time riding
in my car or on a scooter for long periods of time. This last week I have now
noticed a tingling/numbing of my hands and fingers. it is getting
worse to get out of bed because of the pain.

would anyone recommend a chiropractor? not one in particular,
but chirpractic care in general?

the pain is beginning to make me really irritiable and snappy with others. it is also
begninning to interfere with just general thought.
most of the time spent thinking and daydreaming about projects
is now spent thinking about backpain. i seem to be losing interest in projects
like woodworking and mame because of the pain.

thanks for any advice- it is greatly appreciated.

[DrewKaree]

1.  Never install a sprinkler system.  Pay someone to do that.

2.  You need an X-ray.  If your doctor is unwilling to do this after you go back to him and tell him AGAIN what's happening, and your added symptoms, then you need to go to another doctor. 

3.  Numbness sounds like it could be a nerve problem also.

I've NEVER been to a chiropractor, but almost every one of my in-laws have, along with my wife.  The wife isn't as effusive as everyone else, but no one I've ever come across has had anything bad to say about a chiropractor.  In my mind, it could be because they do very little, but it's a cheap test to try out.  In my area, they're not that expensive for an initial visit and you're never locked into a contract for any "treatment", so give it a shot and if it doesn't help, stop going.  It's that simple.

I'd FIRST get an X-ray though.  You don't wanna have a deteriorating disc or cracked vertebrae being manipulated by someone.

[ChadTower]

A competent chiropractor will TELL you to get an Xray, GIVE you a referral to an Xray place, and READ the Xray for you.  BEFORE they touch you.  That is if they can't do the Xray themselves, and many can.

I've been seeing chiropractors for the last decade.  Let me tell you, it's not the voodoo do nothing crap some people will tell you it is.  It is maintenance of the flexibility and positioning of your spine.  Nothing hard to understand about that. 

[NightGod]

My ex-wife works for a chiropractor and my cousin is one and here's what I'll tell you. There *are* some nutjob ones out there that claim that adjustments will cure everything from childhood bedwetting to terminal cancer-my cousin is one of these, and you need to avoid them like the plague that they are. That said, the majority of them are serious practicioners who do ALOT for their patients, especially in the areas of pain management and rehabilitation. If you meet one that doesn't refuse to touch you without some sort of X-rays or MRI, run away.

Honestly, the numbness is worrisome and you need to get it taken care of sooner rather than later-it might be something as simple as a pinched nerve (which chiropractors excel at treating) or it might be the early stages of a disk herniation, in which case you need medical and possibly surgical treatment (and possibly a chiropractor afterwards to assist in your recovery).

But whatever you do, get something done ASAP-as someone else said, try one more appointment with your normal doc and if that doesn't work, find someone who will take you seriously and order some tests to at least rule out the possibility of disk issues.

[shmokes]

I had some pretty bad low back pain develop after pulling a dolly loaded with computers up a flight of stairs.  I got workman's comp to pay for a fairly intensive chiropractic schedule - 16 visits, mostly twice a week.  It helped quite a lot, but the pain returned shortly after I stopped going to the chiropractor.  What seemed to help me more than anything, though, was stretching, especially stretches that I could feel right where the pain was.  Spend 15 minutes a day doing stretches (ones that targeted my hamstrings tended to be pretty good) and see if that doesn't make a big difference.  Also, it's free and it's a good idea even without back pain.

[Circo]

Yeah I went to a chiropracter once and he was such a quack, I was wondering when he was going to read my palm.  Some folks swear by it, I am not a believer.  Stretching is good advise, also the better shape you can get yourself into the more that it will take care of yourself.  Extra pounds kill your back. 

[missioncontrol]

I used to have chrinic back pains...

I went to a chiropractor for a while... it's not a one time fix it all shop... it takes many sessions.... most will do an x-ray before touching you....

one thing I do reccomend is a lower lumbar pillow in your car that makes a big difference....

I also ended up getting a Select-Comfort adjustable bed, It was the best purchase ever... I went from daily back pains to very little to no back pains....

I would think that since your pains were from too much strain on your back, your doctor should have given you some antibiodics for any inflamatory to your muscles.... since you havn't said how long you've had this problem I'm guessing too long now so you may have done some real damage by not getting it looked at right away.....

[Bones]

Take the pain, take the pain.

[shmokes]

I would think that since your pains were from too much strain on your back, your doctor should have given you some antibiodics for any inflamatory to your muscles...

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for muscle inflamation?

[missioncontrol]

I would think that since your pains were from too much strain on your back, your doctor should have given you some antibiodics for any inflamatory to your muscles...

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for muscle inflamation?

to reduce the muscle inflamation....

I'm pretty sure that's what the doc gave me when I pulled mine severly 2 1/2 years ago, but then again I've slept since then so I could be wrong on what he perscribed, but reguardless the guy should have seen a doctor when the pain didn't go away.........

[cdbrown]

Chiropractors manipulate your spine which may or may not be the best idea.  Physiotherapist will stretch, massage and try to loosen the area and generally will give you exercises and stretches to improve your back.  As drew says - there's something pressing on a nerve or pinching it - could be caused by a compressed disc or cartlidge.  I personnally would favour the physio over the chiro.

[ChadTower]

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for muscle inflamation?

Dude... let that one be.  He HAD to have been hammered when he typed out that 1st grade post.

[shardian]

It couldn't hurt to get checked out by a chiropractor. Most insurances provide at least some chiropractic care. Also, alot of chiropractic offices offer deals like free or reduced x-rays at your initial consultation. They do this because if you stay on as a patient for even a few weeks, they will still make money and can afford to give out free x-rays. Also, my father-in-law is a chiropractor, my wife has 2 uncles that are chiropractors, and we are good friends with two chiropractors in our area.
Here are some notes and opinions on chiropractors:
-Abilities and talent vary widely from chiropractor to chiropractor.
-Chiropractors have a bachelors degree in a biology/pre-med field just like md's. They go to a nationally certified school of chiropractic medicine that is just as intense as a doctor that attends an osteopathic school of medicine. In other words, they get as much medical training as a doctor does, but they specialize in the skeleto-muscular and nervous systems. After graduation from chiropractic school, (which alot of people fail out of, just like medical school) the chiropractor goes and works for an established chiropractor to gain practical experience.
-About treatment - in your case, it sounds like you would benefit from a round of therapy and chiropractic care. When I first went to a chiropractor, I was debilitated by severe pain in my lower back. After two treatments, the pain was gone.
- For some things, chiropractic care is just a temporary fix pain wise - such as my facet syndrome. My chiropractor even told me straight up that there was nothing he could really do and that I should only come in if I really need to.

And now for the little things to save money:
- chiropractic offices will offer you several forms of therapy during your visit. A traction table, electro-therapy for muscles, among other things. These are good for when you are in immediate, sever pain, but I noticed that my chiropractor tries to get everyone to do the traction table. Granted it feels darn good, but it is not neccessary EVERY time, and is NOT worth the $20-$50 they charge your insurance. If you are just in for an adjustment, decline these treatments.
- Chiropractors believe in their form of medicine, and will work with you to get you treatment if you need it - translate this as "their prices aren't set in stone". If you don't have insurance, they will work on a cash basis for much lower rates. Just tell your chiropractor about your financial situation and they will work something out for you.

Lastly, at least you can get some cheap/free x-rays out of the deal, if nothing else. You own the x-rays that a doctors office takes. You can have them transferred to any doctor you want.

Hope this big windbag of a post helps you.

[mrhowell]

An old man gave me the cure for most of lifes problems.  Get some old rags and soak them in some kerosene.  Tie the rags around your ankles.  This will keep the ants off your candy ass.

[missioncontrol]

I would think that since your pains were from too much strain on your back, your doctor should have given you some antibiodics for any inflamatory to your muscles...

Why would a doctor prescribe antibiotics for muscle inflamation?

o.k. It was some kind of muscle relaxers..... 800mg of Skelaxin and 500mg of Naproxen...

[shmokes]

 

By the way, ALL chiropractors are quacks.  I've never known a chiropracter that did not have crazy ideas about what can be cured with chiropractic.  The first chiropractor I went to even seriously believes that Jesus was a chiropractor and that's how he healed people with the "laying of of hands", but that over time it has been mytholigized (to make up a word).

But I don't care if they are quacks and basically believe that they have magic powers.  What I do care about is that I feel damned good after going to a chiropractor.  I'm on the fence about chiropractic having long-term benefits for many issues.  But it feels great, so . . . whatever.

[ChadTower]

o.k. It was some kind of muscle relaxers..... 800mg of Skelaxin and 500mg of Naproxen...

Skelaxin (generic:  metaxalone) - Muscle relaxant.  Exact mechanism is unknown, theoretically it uses the CNS.  Used short term to treat muscle spasms.  Usual dose is 800mg taken four times daily.  Most common side effects are drowsiness and headache.  No known notable interactions.


Naproxen - non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID).  Used to treat mild to moderate pain.  Available over the counter in 220mg tablets as Aleve.  Similar to Ibuprofen.  Most common side effect is upset stomach, nausea, or constipation.  Take with food.  May interact with Lithium, blood pressure medications, aminoglycosidesm, and anticoagulants.


I've been working for a major pharmacy chain too long.

Admit it, he gave you horse suppositories too.  Ribbed.  For your pleasure.

[shmokes]

God I love horse suppositories.

[ChadTower]

I hear the best are the ones that give you a 20 second fuse and spin clockwise when they go off.

[shardian]

Dang. It must be really strange that I happen to personally know 9 chiropractors, who all have bachelors degress in science fields from major universities, and all went to Palmer Chiropractic school, graduating at, or near the top of their respective classes. I would not consider any of them to be quacks by a long shot. Go figure that I would make my post based on 9 personal references. I am sure your 5 minute search, and experience with most likely 1 or 2 chiropractors puts you right even with that. I beg your pardon for assuming that most practicing chiropractors also have similar credentials. After doing some research after your post, yes you can get into chiropractic school with a lesser degree in some chiropractic schools. That does not mean you will graduate. I went to school with alot of retards in the engineering department. Not very many of them stuck around to get degrees. Those that flunk out after a year are basically free money for the school. I notices that the Logan school you mentioned currently has roughly 1000 students. They have been around since 1935, and only have 6,000 alumni. Hmmm...yep they sure do hand out degrees like candy out there don't they? Have you met a practicing chiropractor that affectionately displays his degree in interior decorating? I don't think you will.

As to the variance of abilities, this has nothing to do with their knowledge of their practice. This has to do with technique. Some doctors excel in adjusting the lower back, while others do a so-so job with the low back, but are excellent with the neck region. One chiropractor I know is missing a finger on a hand that effects his ability to adjust an area of the back, so he uses an activator. Alot of people do not like the activator, so I would say that his technique varies, wouldn't you. I would also say that you could go to several different doctors, and get a different diagnosis every time. You aren't quick to go criticising doctors who have varying skill levels though are you? Nope, only chiropractors are automatically discredited because they have varying skill levels.

As to comparable training to a doctor, chiropractors are certified to take and interperet x-rays and other diagnostic tests. Sound familiar? How about having a working knowledge of the entire human anatomy? Hmmm...everyone knows that stuff, right?

If I have to, I will get a copy of a comparison chart my father-in-law keeps framed at his office that shows the hours of college and chiropractic school he took compared to a medical doctor. As I said earlier, they specialize in skeleto-muscular and nervous systems. They do not prescribe medicine, fix broken bones, or treat common colds.

[ChadTower]

- Chiropractors believe in their form of medicine, and will work with you to get you treatment if you need it - translate this as "their prices aren't set in stone". If you don't have insurance, they will work on a cash basis for much lower rates. Just tell your chiropractor about your financial situation and they will work something out for you.

My chiropractor does this.  I've been seeing him a long time and get charged based on whatever my current insurance is... when the insurance is good, he gets his normal rate of like $60 per visit.  If my insurance is not as good, like right now, I get charged $30 cash.  That's his break even point.

[Quarterhorse]

Thought I'd chime in.  I'm very qualified.  We'll leave it at that.

If you're having nerve problems in your upper extremities, that is cervical (neck) origin and doesn't have much to do with your back.  Most likely it is secondary to inflammation of your trapezius (muscles on the back above your clavicles) that is compressing your brachial plexus.  Get a good massage.  Chiropractor won't hurt, but agree with above to avoid the ones that say they will "cure all".

General rule -- 80% of all lumbar or thoracic muscle strains will improve on their own in 3 weeks, and 90% in 5 weeks.  If this has been going on for more than 5-6 weeks you may actually have an actual problem.  I would recommend starting with plain film  radiographs.  Any physician can order these.  Be careful of a chiropractor's evaluation of these.  Get REAL radiographs.  If we're thinking about nerve compression, we must step up to an MRI.  Again, ordered by a physician (although some chiropractors can order these).  

What to DO about it.....get some good back stretching exercises.  I'm sure you can find them on the internet.  Do these EVERY DAY AND NIGHT until your pain improves.  Take some over the counter Aleve (unless you can't take this for some reason)....1-2 pills twice a day.  Take those whether you are in pain or not.  They're the same as the naproxen somebody mentioned above.  Therapeutic massage won't hurt.  Neither will heat or ice.   Take over the counter Tylenol (unless you can't) for pain break-throughs.  

Hope I helped.  

[shmokes]

Dang. It must be really strange . . .

Quit being a baby

[Bones]

God I love horse suppositories.

I many can you take?

[shmokes]

four

[ChadTower]

In parallel.

[DrewKaree]

rectally

[NightGod]

Is there some other way to take suppositories?

I think you've been doing it wrong Drew.

[DrewKaree]

Is there some other way to take suppositories?

I think you've been doing it wrong Drew.

You have NO idea how random a cross-posting can be.  I'm about to show you.

".....and I told the Doc "Suppository shmository, for all the good it did me, I may as well have shoved it up ---my bottom---!"" 

[Jabba]

Back pain is the suxors! Been there, done it. Happens to me usually every 1.5 years . Usually after over doing it. I personally am scared of chiros. Went to one when I was in severe pain, he did the xray thing, pushed on me a few times, told me I was too stiff to do anything, come back in two days. That'll be $85 please.

I tried physio. Much better for me. They had this crazy heating/electo-pulsating pad they put on my back every session for 20 minutes. This thing was magical in how much better I felt. That plus they recommended a lot of back exercises which I followed.

I bought a heating/vibrating pad that I lie on for 1 hour when my back pain got real bad. That too takes the edge off.

But I agree with a previous poster that back exercises, slowly at first where you feel stretching in the area where the pain is REALLY helps.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=44465.msg418788#msg418788

Tylernol 3 will also help navigate some of the real bad pain, but that is a band-aid. Celebrex is a anti-inflamatory that really helps to manage the pain.

But exercising is the key IMHO. Sounds crazy when you're in all that pain, but slowly over time it will get better.

Take Care man!

[USSEnterprise]

My father went to a chiropractor ONCE. He wanted my father to wear a "special healing magnet" around his back. Enough said.

[NightGod]

I tried physio. Much better for me. They had this crazy heating/electo-pulsating pad they put on my back every session for 20 minutes. This thing was magical in how much better I felt. That plus they recommended a lot of back exercises which I followed.

Tylernol 3 will also help navigate some of the real bad pain, but that is a band-aid. Celebrex is a anti-inflamatory that really helps to manage the pain.

The chiro my ex works for uses those same pads and prescribes exercises and therapeutic massages for his patients-in fact, all the good ones do. It's the nutjob magnet types that give them all a bad name.

Basically, chiropractic adjustment should be PART of your healing process, not the entire thing-if you do decide to check one out, make sure that holds true or just walk out the door.

[USSEnterprise]

Wasn't Celebrex taken off the market because it was causing strokes?

[NightGod]

What's a little brain bleed next to a sore back?

(I think read something about them letting it back in certain dosages over short periods of time, but I honestly don't care enough to confirm or deny that.)

[thebrownshow]

I actually screwed up my back about two years ago playing racquetball, sciatic pain and everything, got to the point where I was taking about 800mg of iburprophen daily just to get through it... now I'm no stranger to pain, football and wrestling taught me to "tough it out" through sprained ankles and tweaked rotator cuffs -- but this scored pretty high on the pain-o-meter. 

I agree with everyone else, get back to your doctor after a few weeks if it's not better and get either an x-ray or MRI, that's what worked for me.  Thanks to some advice from my doctor, what has actually helped me more than anything has been getting the heck out of bed and running in the mornings.  If you don't have any disc issues, and it's all muscular, just sitting around and not moving is just about the worst thing for back pain.  You also need to do some back exercises two or three times a day.  The best one I've found is just to lie on your back with your knees bent and hands behind your head, and try and flatten out your lower back.  Then try and use your stomach muscles to push your back down towards the ground.  Do that for like 5 minutes, or heck, lie on the floor like that while you're watching TV or playing videogames... works for me.  Haven't taken anything for pain in about a month now, as opposed to every day for a year.

[rohan]

Do NOT go to a chiropractor.  They're scam artists of the highest order.  Go to your doctor, and they may tell you to take a muscle relaxant and/or anti-inflammatory, or refer you to P.T., or possibly surgery. Moderate low-impact exercise is also good in many cases and it improves posture.  I know many people who buy into the chiropractic scam, and they go all the time and spend way too much money.  Their problem is "fixed" but seemingly only for a day or so and it comes back.  Manipulation of the spine has not been proven to permanently fix any back-pain problems as far as I know.
No real medical doctor actually believes that chiropractic techniques really work.  They can cause permanent harm, though.
My grandfather is an M.D. and has explained to me in detail how manipulation of the spine does not fix anything.  It MIGHT feel good in the short-term, but that's about it.

[ChadTower]

Yes, just as stretching of the muscles does not permanently loosen them... or exercising of the heart does not permanently improve it... manipulating the spine does not permanently "fix" it... many, many things we do to our bodies as we age need to be maintained to be persistent.

[NightGod]

No real medical doctor actually believes that chiropractic techniques really work.  They can cause permanent harm, though.
My grandfather is an M.D. and has explained to me in detail how manipulation of the spine does not fix anything.  It MIGHT feel good in the short-term, but that's about it.

Funny, going to have to talk to all of those fake doctors that keep refering patients to chiropractors then. And the thousands of patients who have been able to learn to properly manage their pain without the need for medication thanks (at least in part) to chiropractic treatment.

As I said, it works well as a PART of your treatment plan, not as the only thing. And the good ones do alot more than just spinal manipulation.

[ChadTower]

it works well as a PART of your treatment plan, not as the only thing.

Just in case people missed the key point.