Is it safe to buy a 360?

[Dizzle]

Dizzle, that's a rumor and tht picisn;t verified.  it could be a hoax.

Thanks SirPoonga   

Decided it wasn't worth it anyway.. the difference between component and DVI on my TV is not detectable.

[Vigo]

Hey, Is this just a rumor, or did anyone hear this? I heard that microsoft has a marketing strategy to promote the nintendo Wii, basically pointing out that the Wii isn't such direct competition since it is so varied. They are basically saying that the 360 should be able to play most the titles that the ps3 will play and be half the cost, so any avid gamer would be smart to buy a 360 and a Wii rather than a ps3, because it would be a cheaper and a more diverse gaming experiance.

[SirPoonga]

Vigo, no.  There was a spoof going around called the Wii360 which was meant to show that you could get a Wii and 3600 for the price of a PS3.

[Dizzle]

Actually, during E3 I also remember another Microsoft exec (can't remember which one) stating that the public should by a 360 and a Wii and pass on the PS3. 

Might actually be what I do.

[SirPoonga]

Peter Moore said that in jest as his response to the ps3 pricing.

[hypernova]

Peter Moore said that in jest as his response to the ps3 pricing.

There's always some truth in every joke.  You can't deny that Microsoft would LOVE for this to happen.

[shmokes]

It wasn't said in jest and the sentiment has been echoed by other MS execs.  It was said because MS sees Sony as a greater threat to their target market than Nintendo and they are intelligent enough to point out the math to people to illustrate just how crazy expensive the PS3 is.  MS reallizes that they are better off sharing videogame real estate in the home with Nintendo than to lose it completely to Sony.  And it's a compelling argument that's bound to win over at least a few Sony die hards.

[tetsu96]

Peter Moore said that in jest as his response to the ps3 pricing.

Yet that's amusing, because a Premium 360 + the HD-DVD at projected MSRP is just as much as a PS3.

But who really knows or cares how things are gonna turn out in the long run, as long as you can enjoy the ride there.

[Tahnok]

It's funny because Microsoft keeps bringing up the idea that you can buy their console and Nintendo's, while Nintendo seems to not take kindly to Microsoft's console:

Q: Microsoft has made the comment that people can buy an Xbox 360 and Wii for about the same price as a PlayStation 3. Would you mind terribly if that happened?

A: I'd much rather have the consumer buy a Wii, some accessories, and a ton of games, vs. buying any of my competitor's products.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-08-14-nintendo-qa_x.htm?POE=TECISVA

I think Microsoft is showing just how afraid they are of Sony.

[SirPoonga]

I don't want to start a flame war but that's where this will be heading... How does that show Microsoft is afraid.  OH NOES!!!!11 We are afraid that for the price of a PS3 you can buy a 360 and Wii.  RUUUUUUN!

[Tahnok]

Because they are siding with a competitor to beat another competitor. I think it shows that Microsoft is confident that Nintendo is not a real threat to them. But I also think it shows that they consider Sony to be a real problem. There is something very wrong when a company tells you to buy their product and another company

[Howard_Casto]

I think the real thing is that sony is already doomed.  It doesn't matter if the ps3 eats thunder and craps lightning, the damage that is all the bad press is already done.  600 bucks is insaine.... everybody jumped on the ps3 bashing band wagon, because of it. 
(allow me to jump topic for a sec)

Just for the record it is NOT relative to the price of a high end 360 with all the bells and whistles, because, well you get all the bells and whistles for that price.  600 bucks is the price of a bare-bones ps3 with nothing.  And kids, if you think the ps3 blue ray is worth the money or are considering buying a hd-dvd player for the 360 then I've got some swamp land to sell you.  If you want a media player go buy one, but the format for games will be dvds for some time to come. 

Sony's past success hasn't been base on them being innovative or actually putting out a superior product, it was due to them being lucky both with timing, and the mistakes of their competition (namely nintendo holding on to carts for the n64.)  There is nothing wrong with that.  The problem is that after all this success they thought it actually had something to do with the product they sell and got cocky.  They think that there are enough sony loyals out there to buy a product even if the price point is too high. 

M$'s evil scheme is still going according to plan. Expect them to take sony's spot and for the playstation 3 to be the last sony console.  This is a good thing.  Sony has been in the business for over 15 years, and what do we have to show for it?  The eye-toy?  M$ has only been in the console game for around 5 and they have already given us LIVE, the live arcade and the concept of a console with a harddrive.  They are about to change the face of gaming again with the new low-end developers kit for guys like me, allowing me to produce xb arcade games for a few hundered bucks instead of several thousand. 

My point is don't weep for sony, they never did anything for you.  M$ on the other hand is an actual gaming company, with m$ having produced games on the pc since the windows 3.11 days.  Sony is a television company who got into the industry because nintendo ticked off their ceo and he wanted even. 



In closing the reason m$ is being nice to nintendo, is because unlike sony they aren't total jerks and don't hate nintendo.  It also shows how secure m$ is in their position.  You would't see them doing stuff like that last go around becuase they were struggling, now they aren't. Personally, considering how great the wii is shaping up, the reaction sony gave is one of an afraid company.  I mean the wii is gonna be great, everyone universally agrees that the wii is great.  Everyone except sony that is.  Perhaps they are afraid to promote it like m$ did because they already know that their product isn't going to sell as well as they hoped?

[Nannuu]

Heck yeah it's safe to buy one.  I love mine.  I even accidentally left it on all night in a closed wood box (my entertainment center) and it still works fine.  I've been extremely happy with it.

Not sure I agree with Howard though.  The Playstation has a ridiculous fanbase and Sony has what is likely some of the best marketing around (only beat by the equally expensive and less functional iPod by Apple).  I think they'll do just fine.  They also do put out some first rate first party titles.  This is the first system from a major manufacturer I won't be able to buy but that is because of kids that I now own instead .  I do find it funny that Sony will have free online (Sony marketing...).  See how long that lasts.  Heck, MS is free too for the silver package.

[shmokes]

Ah . . . Sony's going to be fine.  They have an enormous marketing challenge in front of them -- convincing people of the value proposition the PS3 presents as a home entertainment device rather than just a game console, but it can be done.  Apple did it with the iPod.  Sony's getting lots of bad press over the $600 price tag, but the combination of rabid fanboys and a helluva marketing campaign (which we know that if there's anything Sony can do right it's marketing) Sony will sell out everything they can produce before the end of the year and into the beginning of next year, just like the 360 did.  There will be a big price cut before the next holiday season and lots of amazing games (remember, development started for the PS3 long before anybody knew that it was going to have a retarded high price so there are some high-profile games coming).

Sony's not going to have the clear victory they had in the previous two generations this time around, but they're going to do well.  I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually catch up and pass Microsoft's market share, but that won't happen until at least 2008 and probably more like 2010 if at all. 

Frankly, I'm more excited about the PS3 than I am about the Xbox 360 (which makes the price tag all the more painful).  Part of it, admittedly, is that the PS2 is the only system I never bought from the last generation and there are games that I'd like to catch up on.  But part of it is the superior specs, with HDMI, Blu-Ray, up to 7 simultaneous controllers per system, much larger hard drive, and at least theoretically more horsepower.  Mostly it's just a gut feeling that the PS3 is a better system, which probably means I'm just a marketing tool.  Also, the case itself is nicer looking.  The Xbox 360 is ugly.  Both the Wii and the PS3 have much better design.

[brophog]

Shmokes,

Name me the last console that was markedly higher in price than it's competitors that did well. All of them failed, despite the fact they were all much better in performance ratio to their cheaper competitors than the PS3 is to the XBOX360.

Maybe.......one could argue our society is more technological than in the past in the role of entertainment. The average consumer is more likely now to spend money on top end TV's, cell phones, MP3 players.....etcetera than it did 10-15 years ago. So, I suppose one could argue that changes the dynamics some. However, the trend is very clear on gaming consoles that were higher priced and consequently, the console of nearly every generation that eventually "won" the war was the lowest priced/performance system.

[SirPoonga]

up to 7 simultaneous controllers per system

I've been wondering about this.  Is that 7 wireless controllers or 7 total?  If so i guess you won't be playing 8 player ps2 games?

[shmokes]

Shmokes,

Name me the last console that was markedly higher in price than it's competitors that did well. All of them failed, despite the fact they were all much better in performance ratio to their cheaper competitors than the PS3 is to the XBOX360.

Maybe.......one could argue our society is more technological than in the past in the role of entertainment. The average consumer is more likely now to spend money on top end TV's, cell phones, MP3 players.....etcetera than it did 10-15 years ago. So, I suppose one could argue that changes the dynamics some. However, the trend is very clear on gaming consoles that were higher priced and consequently, the console of nearly every generation that eventually "won" the war was the lowest priced/performance system.

So how, exactly, did the Gamecube fail to unseat the PS2, in spite of being significantly lower-priced as well as being technologically superior?

It's just not as cut and dry as you suggest, as indicated by the last generation.  The only time we've ever had exhorbitantly high-priced consoles in the past were newcomers to the market like Panasonic with the CD-i, or 3D0 or SNK with the Neo Geo.  These weren't household names.  The launches of these consoles for one thing weren't backed by a $100 million marketing campaign (no idea what Sony's budget is, but it's at least that much).  They also did not have fans lining up and spending nights on sidewalks to get ahold of them (PS3 will) on launch day.  They also weren't coming from a company that has been the home of THE preeminent console over the last two generations (11 years).  Buzz is important and it will sell plenty of consoles early on based on buzz alone, just as Sony has shipped over 20 million PSPs world wide in spite of being much more expensive than its competitor  (to put that in perspective that's right about the same number of Gamecubes sold so far, if I'm not mistaken). 

Sony doesn't have to sell 100 million units to be successful.  They only have to sell enough units to hit critical mass.  They will sell EVERY unit they can produce this holiday season, whether they sell them for $600 or $100.  Obviously they're going to need to lower the price to appeal to more casual gamers / non-Sony-fanboys, but that will happen when demand for the unit starts dropping and supply starts picking up.  Sony's not going to just bow out of the console race when the Playstation brings more revenue and profit than every other division of Sony combined.

All I'm saying is that Sony is not going to dissintegrate.  Not only that but they will be successful.  Not only that, but there's a real possibility that they will be the market leader by the end of this console cycle.  Think about it.  What if Blu-ray wins, and Chrismas 2007 rolls around and the PS3 is a much more reasonable $400?  Sony's doing all right cos you couldn't find a PS3 on a store shelf for the first half of 2007 anyway due to demand outstripping their production capacity.  Now there's word of mouth cos you've got a few million people playing a few incredible games.  People have been subjected to a year of heavy marketing, playing up all the ways that the console is superior and will change your life and is actually inexpensive because of it's ability to play Blu-ray movies (I know that's a debateable claim, but you know they will make it and you know that it won't fall entirely on deaf ears).  You have the nostalgia factor, where people owned and loved the PS1 and PS2 and something in them just wants to own and love the PS3 because the Playstation brand has become a part of their tradition and routine.

If people percieve the value of the PS3 to be higher than the other systems it won't matter that the other systems cost less, just as Nintendo could slash the price of the Gamecube all they wanted, but they couldn't dent the PS2 sales.  Sony may or may not outsell its competitors, but the PS3 will not be a failure.

[shmokes]

up to 7 simultaneous controllers per system

I've been wondering about this.  Is that 7 wireless controllers or 7 total?  If so i guess you won't be playing 8 player ps2 games?

I'm too lazy to look this up, but I seem to remember that 7 devices is the built-in limit to a single bluetooth controller.  If that's the case I'd think the limit is only for wireless.

[Nannuu]

I believe Sony had to come back and clarify the 7 player claim.  I think it is now 4 players and 3 "other" devices are allowed on the PS3.  Please look that up, I could be wrong there.

Another example of a higher priced system winning is the PS2 vs Dreamcast.  At the launch of the PS2, the Dreamcast games looked years better.  Even the initial launch titles for the DC (a year previous) looked so much nicer than PS2 launches.  But people held out for the PS2 anyway.  This was all marketing, there was never anything wrong with the DC.  I know three guys here at work that have been waiting for the PS3 to be their new entertainment center.  They are bent on the belief that it is all they need, and they don't even own a previous game system.  Somehow Sony has good marketing.  Though I think they lie no one seems to care.  I say this based on all of the demos they pump out previous to their system launches where the system will never ever be able to live up to these initial videos.  And their specs are always blown out of proportion and then downgraded before the actual release of the system.  But people always seem to believe what they first heard about it and that's what they buy.

I'm not a fanboy of any system.  I really wish I could buy the PS3 at launch.  There are sure to be some really great games for it.  But just because I can't buy it, doesn't mean that everyone else can't/won't.

[SirPoonga]

There are sure to be some really great games for it.

This is the thing I am in doubt on.  Unless you absolutely must have sony only game like gran turismo or tekken it won't make a difference.  I saw the list of game in development for the PS3, only a few were PS3 only and they were the ones you'd expect like Gran Turismo, MSG4, anf Tekken.

Funny story, a friend of mine has bought Sony consoles for the sole purpose of playing Gran Turismo.  He played Forza on my 360 and thought it was better.  Another friend just got a 360 because he knows he isn't going to afford a PS3.  Yet another friend said for $600 he's just going to upgrade his computer instead.

This is the problem with the PS3, the price doesn't justify it.  Ok, if you are going to get a Bluray player it will be one of the cheapest.  However, you know it's going to suck.  Name a console that has a good DVD playback?  The PS2 needed a firmware update early on because it couldn't read some DVDs.  The 360's DVD playback is not that good.  And now the PS3 will have an early Bluray drive which will not be that good as first generation drives usually aren't.

I'm not a fanboy of any system, I go where the games are.  I still use my PC because certain genres are better like RTS an FPS.  I'm just being realistic and looking through the hype and what has happened in the past.
Then looking at the specs between the 360 and PS3, I think the PS3 is only going to be a little bit better performance.  It may have a bigger graphics processor but it has less system memory.

I plan on getting a PS2 when the PS3 comes out, should be able to get one for pretty cheap as people replaced it with the PS3.  I was going to get it for Guitar Hero but then a couple weeks ago Activision said Guitar Hero is coming to xbox, so Katamari and God of War might be the only games I have for awhile

But, as you said, it is about marketting.  That's one thing Sony does very well.  Look at the PS3, they've been copying ideas from the other system lately.  I'm not saying the other systems aren't copying ideas, the new 360 camera, someone say EyeToy.  But recently Sony said the PS3 is going to have "Entitlements" which sounds jus tlike the current Achievements on the 360.  Sony's premium model is going to have chrome accents around the cd dive, just like someone else's premium system.
The reason they are doing this is so when it comes out they can say they have the same stuff and more.  Again, good marketting if it works.

I think the number one complaint about the 360 is how "loud" it is.  Though it is no louder than the Dreamcast's CD drive churning away.  It;s just the cooling fans making the noise and once gameplay starts and there is 5.1 surround going on you don't notice it.  I wonder how Sony is going to combat the massive amount of heat their processors are going to put out.

I'm thinking all the reason sony fanboys made fun of the 360 last year (loud, not in stock, etc...) will happen with the PS3 too.

Now, I am also looking forward to the Wii.  it sounds cool.  However there are problems with that too.  i have a feeling there are going to be games that over use the motion sensing.  Remember when Cel shading was a big thing and it became overused.  I think there will be games that put the motion sensing in for the sake of putting it in even though it doesn't make sense.  Of course, as usual, the first party software will probably be rock solid.  New Super Mario Bros for the DS is awesome, just completed the game last week.

[shmokes]

FWIW here's a video showing the final PS3 dev kits that developers have just received.  According to game jounalists who have seen them they run both cool and quiet.

[SirPoonga]

That doesn't mean anything, it's a development kit.  Look at it, it is huge.  Plenty of room for cooling and larger quieter fans.

[shmokes]

Hence the "FWIW".  Nevertheless it's a far cry from the previous dev kits.

[SirPoonga]

Heh, that is true.

I've noticed notice two things with the PS3 vs 360.  Actually 3, Halo fanboys are waiting for Halo 3 to get the 360, WTF!  They are missing out on some good gaming

Otherwise you have the PS3 loyalists that will buy the PS3 no matter what, then you have people who are getting the PS3 because they know know Sony did good last generation so they will do good now.  Out of all the reasons I have heard from people getting the PS3 not one was because they thought the PS3 would have better games (unless it was a sony fanboy hyping MSG4).  Talk about marketting success.

That's where the Wii is different, people are getting that because they know the games will be good, not because of it's specs.  I think time around Nintendo is going to do better.  They still will probably not beat microsoft or sony but I don't think the Wii will be as bad as the gamecube.

The other thing is networked games.  Ok, the PS3 will have free networking.  The question is will the experience be as good as the Live system?  There are pros and cons for both.  The pros for the PS3 networking is it is free to the user.  But then again so was the PS2's networking.  That's all the PS3's networking is but add gamespy on top of that.  If you have used the gamespy network on a  pc it sucks.  I hate games that are gamespy only.  The other pro is you can have MMORPGs where the developer sets the price of online play.  The cons are what makes the Live system better.  All networked games use the same post which makes dealing with firewalls easy, just open 3074 tcp and udp.  There's alot of things I think you will be able to do on the PS3 that have always been available on Live, the question is how good is it going to be since Liv ehas had a 4 year head start.

Let me put it this way, one of my friends that just got a 360 the first hing he siad to me when we hooked up for a multiplayer games was "wow".  It is a very slick system, better than anything currently on the PC.  Xfire and Steam are close.  One thing you can do with Live (and you should be able to do ont he PS3) is have voice communications seperate from game audio.  The voice goes to a headset.  Unless you have a game designed for it along with two sound cards in your PC you can't do that.  This is more of an argument on why to console game over PC, communications is better.  It's pretty cool to be able to talk to a friend when you both are in different games.

Backwards compatibility isn't a huge issue with me, though I can see how it is an issue with many people.  Since I got my 360 I have bought three back compat games that I found used or in a bargain bin.  I have Forza, Redcard2003, and Star Wars Battlefront 2.  Forza I had to get, I love racing sims and I knew Forza 2 was not going to be around for some time.  I just got Battlefront 2 because it became a Platinum hit and is now under $20.  So, I understand why one would want backwards compatiblity.  However, if you already had the previous system what is the big deal?   Unless you sold it to make up some of the cost.  Though I see PS2 is going for $50 used on ebay.

Ther eis something else the 360 has that people don;t talk about that much.  It is a MCE Media Extender.  I've been playing with Vista Beta which has MCE in it.  Being able to controle MCE from the 360 is awesome.  I plan on using that feature.  I am going to upgrade my computer when Vista comes out.  The left overs will be used to upgrade my arcade cabinet.  I will throw a TV tuner in there and install MCE.  The cool thing is while someone is playing a game (I play mostly classics so CPU power isn't an issue) I can control the MCE software on it from the 360.  I don't know why microsoft would not show that off some more, expecially with vista coming out.  It is an awesome feature.

The other thing I am excited about is there will be cross platforms games between games running on vista and the 360.  Huxley and Shadowrun look pretty cool.  I was talking to some people who went to E3 and tried it out, they loved playing console vs pc.  This is what I don't get, why doesn't a big company like EA tell the consoles that they are going to make their games cross platform.  At least EA sports.  The sports games are generally the same across platform, netcode would at least be the same even if the graphics are different.  Those games aren't exclusive to any console so they aren't a big selling point.  EA uses their own servers anyway and not the live system since they keep track of alot of stats.  Maybe they are planning it.  Frankly, I could care less if you have a 360 or PS3, as long as we could play Madden or Tiger Woods together.  The only problem I see with that is voice communications, on the 360 it is handled by live, not the game.

I think Sony will still win this generation but it is going to be a bit tougher for them.

[BenderTheGreat]

Dude, the only reason to get a PS3 right now is the faint possibility of Kingdom Hearts 3. Seriously. Wii has better games and is the ORIGINAL motion sensitive system. Nintendo INNOVATES, it doesn't just use what the competition uses.
KH was pretty much my reason for a PS2. It may end up as my reason for a PS3, but not now, not while it's just a faint possibility.

[SirPoonga]

Seriously. Wii has better games and is the ORIGINAL motion sensitive system.

Hate to burst your bubble but it isn't  a new concept, even in the gaming world.  PCs have had motion sensing mice and gamepads for many years.