PS3 - Released in November at $499 for 20gig model/$599 for 60gig

[pointdablame]

Engadget Live coverage.

This is worth checking out for anyone interested in the next gen wars.  Looks like the PS3 controller is back to the old style (thank god no boomerang), and incorporates motion sensing like the Wii controller does.

Also, prices set - $499 for 20gig, $599 for 60gig.

They're updating every few mins, so keep an eye on the link.

[SNAAKE]

  NEW MGS4 TRAILER !!!!!

http://www.w1n9zr0.deltaanime.net/metalgearsolid4e3.divx

[JoyMonkey]

The PS3 controller no longer looks like a banana mated with a boomerang! Yay!
And it's motion sensitive, like the Wii controller! Yay!

[Hoagie_one]

'spensive

I'd say the controller was more of a tilt sensor, but I hope it works for them.  Seems like an afterthought to steal some of Wii's thunder

[JoyMonkey]

The price is actually a steal when you consider that a regular Blue Ray player will set you back around $1000. They must be planning to loose a lot of money on hardware sales for the first couple of years.

[AtomSmasher]

I'm glad they went back to the old controller design, the ps2 controller is the best designed controller currently out IMO.  The price definately is expensive, but they didn't have much of a choice since it comes with so many bells and whistles (blu-ray, harddrive, wifi, bluetooth, etc.)  The price will probably also help the Wii since its supposed to sell for around $199, making it far cheaper then any other next-gen console.

[versapak]

The 360 controller is by far the best controller to have ever been made for a console. <=PERIOD

The dual shock is a horrible design, especially with the clear afterthought of the analog stick placement.

They could have at least swapped the d-pad with the left analg stick, so that it would be a little more comfortable with current gaming, but oh well. It is at least better than that boomerang design.

As for the tilt thing...

woooooopty friggin dooo


I suppose it could be neat, but it has been done before, and like the analog sticks on the dual shock, seems like an afterthought to (as already mentioned) steal some of Wii(tarded)'s thunder.

I'd much rather have the rumble they they took out.


As for the price...

I'm not looking for a Blue-Ray player to begin with, and though its addition is a factor in that cost, and when compared to those stand alone players, it is indeed a value, I am interested in a gaming console. As far as that goes, the price is insane.

[AtomSmasher]

The 360 controller is by far the best controller to have ever been made for a console. <=PERIOD

The dual shock is a horrible design, especially with the clear afterthought of the analog stick placement.

They could have at least swapped the d-pad with the left analg stick, so that it would be a little more comfortable with current gaming, but oh well. It is at least better than that boomerang design.

so my OPINION was wrong, good to know.  To be fair I haven't played much of the xbox 360 controller, but from the little I did play on it I still prefer the ps2's controller, and the ps2 controller is far better then any gamecube or xbox controller IMO.  I like the placement of the analog sticks on it, but once again, thats just my opinion.

[brained]

For me the price is kinda expensive, and even with the thing that they're releasing 2 models and the difference is not only harddrive related. The 500 buck version wont include wifi, memory card slot and other stuff.... look for more info at slashdot.org

[pointdablame]

For me the price is kinda expensive, and even with the thing that they're releasing 2 models and the difference is not only harddrive related. The 500 buck version wont include wifi, memory card slot and other stuff.... look for more info at slashdot.org

yeah, there is no HDMI port on the $500 version either.  It's the Xbox360 marketing plan... release 2 versions but make the "value" version extremely undesireable.

I agree that the price is insane, and it's in no small part due to the BluRay drive.  The drive itself costs over $300, so it's not a surprise that it's releasing at the prices it is.  I personally am really looking forward to the PS3, but I won't touch one until they are under $300, so I have quite a wait ahead of me.

I really like the Dual Shock controller design, so I'm glad they are keeping it, especially when a boomerang was the alternative.  The tilt sensor may be interesting, but it's not as versatile as the Wiimote IMO.  I'm bummed about the loss of vibration though.

[Hoagie_one]

Dual shock would of been perfect if they had switched the left analog and d-pad

[versapak]

so my OPINION was wrong, good to know.  To be fair I haven't played much of the xbox 360 controller, but from the little I did play on it I still prefer the ps2's controller, and the ps2 controller is far better then any gamecube or xbox controller IMO.  I like the placement of the analog sticks on it, but once again, thats just my opinion.

Never said your opinion was wrong.

I just implied that my opinion is the only one that mattered.

I have always found the playstation controllers to be too small, and I don't get how anyone on earth could find their analog placement to be good at all.

If your opinion is different than that, then I just naturally ASSume that you are a girlie handed gamer, who doesn't actually play very many modern games that use a lot of analog.






Honestly though...

I am glad they kept the dual shock style over the boomerang. I would have rather seen a new one that improved, but keeping the same is FAR better than a new one that sucks even more.

I am most bummed about the lack of rumble though. 

[MajorLag]

The price is actually a steal when you consider that a regular Blue Ray player will set you back around $1000. They must be planning to loose a lot of money on hardware sales for the first couple of years.

Take that one right out of the Sony salesman handbook did you?  I mean, who buys a game console thinking "What a steal for a BlueRay player!"?

And it's motion sensitive, like the Wii controller! Yay!

Not quite. The rev controller can detect its position relative to the TV screen, allowing it to be used as a lightgun replacement, among other things. And, from what I've read, the Sony version seems to have been a rush job (I'll leave why as an excersise to the reader) and didn't look like it performed very well at the demo.

Dual shock would of been perfect if they had switched the left analog and d-pad

Should have done it with the PS2. Somebody at sony needs to be fired for letting that crappy left-analog placement slip through on annother generation...

[Nannuu]

No wifi on the $500 model too.  Can anyone find an article that confirms that the PS3 will output HD on component cables as well.  I have an older HDTV and am not planning on a new one any time soon so that's a deal breaker if it doesn't.  I ask because I've noticed that the HD players have HDMI only which sucks, hopefully the PS3 doesn't copy this model.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Blu-Ray was announced to be HDMI only to support copy protection somehow.

[shmokes]

Well, I AM a girlie-handed gamer.  I think the greatest controller on the face of the planet is the Gamecube (for size, ergonomics AND differently sized/shaped buttons) but I digress.  I agree, and mentioned it in the Wii thread, that the main and only significant problem with the new dual shockless controller is the lameass decision to leave the D-pad in the primary controller position.  Sony just has a hangup about this (look at the PSP, for example).

[Nannuu]

No no, it's the giant original Xbox controller.  That one rules.

Yeah, I'm serious.  I have RA so the weenie small controllers cramp my hands.

[shmokes]

A couple of other things.  I get the impression that the position sensor inside the controller is pretty limited in scope.  Probably something that would be fun for controlling a game like Super Monkey Ball, but not anything that can begin to function like the Wii controller.  These things must be incredibly inexpensive to integrate, considering games cartridges for the Game Boy Advance have had them built in.

Also, I missed the Sony press conference, but I read something about an innovative Eye Toy thing being unveiled.  Any info about that?  I just heard a MS exec dismissing it as a novelty, but, of course, that's meaningless.  Anybody who saw it care to comment?

[Stingray]

Holy crap! $600 is just too f'in' much money for a game console. DO YOU HEAR ME SONY? THAT'S INSANE!

-S

[farmecologist]

I agree..$600 is WAY out of my price range.  I'm afraid that they won't get the mass sales they are looking for at that price.

[Dizzle]

No wifi on the $500 model too.  Can anyone find an article that confirms that the PS3 will output HD on component cables as well.  I have an older HDTV and am not planning on a new one any time soon so that's a deal breaker if it doesn't.  I ask because I've noticed that the HD players have HDMI only which sucks, hopefully the PS3 doesn't copy this model.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that Blu-Ray was announced to be HDMI only to support copy protection somehow.

That's the problem I have also.. although my HDTV has DVI and I think they have HDMI to DVI converters.  If not, it would be a deal breaker for me as well.  I can't see the sense in them doing that since the installed user base of HDTV's with HDMI inputs would be relatively small in my opinion.

As far as Blu-Ray, I'm not thoroughly convinced as to which format (HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) is going to come out on top so I'm taking a wait and see approach on that.

[Nannuu]

I think Sony will have some nice leverage with an installed base of PS3s in homes.  I think Blu-Ray will win solely because of the PS3.  And I'm not a fanboy, it just seems like it will work given the number of PS fans around the world.  It won't be me helping, it'll be years before I'll be able to afford one.  But if they sell out of their initial 6 million (by March supposedly) just based on hype, that is still a nice starting base.  Much more than the HD-DVD players will be able to sell when they hit the market.

[SirPoonga]

Much more than the HD-DVD players will be able to sell when they hit the market.

Haven't been to Best Buy, huh?

[SirPoonga]

yeah, there is no HDMI port on the $500 version either.  It's the Xbox360 marketing plan... release 2 versions but make the "value" version extremely undesireable.

How is not having HDMI undesirable?  How many people will take advantage of that.  HDTV is not common place.  Let alone 1080p60.

I think price alone is going to make it undesirable.  I know some gran turismo fanboys that are going to pass on the ps3 because of the price.

Does being able to play bluray mean anything?  I know in Japan is does, they have small apartments and love all in one gadgets.  But I remember the first version of the ps2 dvd drive was crap.  I remember the first version of the psx cd audio was crap.  Heck, I wouldn;t use my 360 to play DVDs, it's loud.  I need to find someone at E3 to find out how loud the ps3 his.  3.2ghz put out alot of heat which require plenty of fan power.

[versapak]

I think price alone is going to make it undesirable.  I know some gran turismo fanboys that are going to pass on the ps3 because of the price.

<=====




The ability to play Blue-Ray is going to be a weak selling point I think, because of the format wars. When HD-DVD is actually in stock, its stand alone players are cheaper, and I don't see the Blue-Ray market taking over, because of PS3 sales, because I don't see PS3 sales taking over due to that INSANE freakin price.

[shmokes]

I kind of agree that BluRay will be a weak selling point, but I think it should be a no-brainer to end the format wars.  The cheapest, bottom-of-the-barrel HD-DVD players cost $500, and they get up to $750 and $1000.  Why would anybody want a $500 HD-DVD player that isn't a PS3 when they could have a $500 BluRay player that IS a PS3?

The "Sony Salesman Handbook" is exactly right on that account.  But it's still a hard and complex sell.  The average person doesn't know or care about the format wars.  Not yet at least. 

At any rate, I could see BluRay winning because of PS3 -- that is, if PS3 sells really well initially.  But I can't really see PS3 winning because of BluRay because when the average person buys a PS3 they will be buying it based solely on it's value as a game machine.  If they don't think they'll get a $100-$200 better game experience they'll go with the Xbox.  Or, of course, they'll decide both are too expensive and go with Nintendo.

[Grasshopper]

I agree with most of the comments so far. $600 is an insane amount of money for a games console. You can buy a pretty decent PC (including a flat screen monitor) for that sort of money.

It appears Sony are using the PS3 primarily as a vehicle for establishing Blu-Ray. This is a very risky and cynical strategy IMHO and disrespectful to gamers. I mean seriously, who gives a damn about Blu-Ray? From the consumer perspective it's largely a solution looking for a problem. Sure the extra capacity will eventually be useful for videos but it is irrelevant for gaming.

As to why Sony is willing to risk PS3 dominance in order to push Blu-Ray technology, well it's obviously partly about winning the next-gen DVD format war. But that's not the whole story. It's also about Sony attempting yet again to shove a new allegedly uncrackable DRM standard down our throats. I doubt that it will work in the long term as everything seems to get cracked eventually, but in the short term it probably will if only because Blu-Ray recorders either won't be available or will be insanely expensive.

[Dizzle]

As far as I can remember, Sony's got a pretty bad record when it comes to releasing new formats that are widely adopted by consumers: ie Betamax, the Mini-disc, and now the UMD which movie studios are dropping support for left and right.  This time around might be different as it appears as though Blu-Ray has better backing.

Still, I have to agree with Grasshopper.  I've been following the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD format war for a while now, but the typical consumer who rolls into Circuit City or Best Buy doesn't care.  I'm afraid that when the time comes and the public is faced with the familiar DVD moniker, or Blu-Ray, the majority of folks will go with HD-DVD, primarily if it's cheaper.

Who knows tho!!!   

[Nannuu]

Much more than the HD-DVD players will be able to sell when they hit the market.

Haven't been to Best Buy, huh?

Actually no.  I suppose they are sold out.    This ruins my argument!
I know two guys at work that have been waiting to get a PS3 just for the HD movies and games combined.  But they don't own a single game system right now so I guess I call them the general public.  I would think people will buy what is the cheapest as you won't be able to tell the difference between between the two.  I agree with PDB, why buy a HDDVD for the same price as a PS3/BluRay, generally the public will pick the PS3.  Granted I suspect HDDVD players will be cheaper by November.

[Nannuu]

Just checked the Toshiba HD-DVD player, very cool.  Gotta start working on the wife for that one!  I'd never use my game system as a player, the drives tend to crap out too easy.  Especially not after spending $600 bucks on it.  I still think the average joe will get a PS3 just for it, but I doubt most or any of us will being the kind of guys we are.

[Dizzle]

Just checked the Toshiba HD-DVD player, very cool.  Gotta start working on the wife for that one!  I'd never use my game system as a player, the drives tend to crap out too easy.  Especially not after spending $600 bucks on it.  I still think the average joe will get a PS3 just for it, but I doubt most or any of us will being the kind of guys we are.

I remember using my PS2 as a DVD player... man was it horrible... Not only was it loud and cumbersome, but they had a list of discs that just weren't playable in the thing.  I believe they improved the firmware with the slim version,  but I'm not sure.

Either way, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, I won't be buying the first generation hardware that comes out.  I learned my lesson when I bought a DVD player when they first hit the shelves!

[Stingray]

I mean seriously, who gives a damn about Blu-Ray?

Exactly. I'm all for getting new technology rolled in with a new toy, but not if it nearly doubles the price of said new toy. There's no reason why this thing couldn't have had a DVD drive and sold for considerably less money. I think Sony is really shooting themselves in the foot. I'm a big time Playstation fan, (hooked through the gills on Gran Turismo) and there's just no way in the world I'm buying a PS3 at that price.

-S

[Stingray]

Upon further reflection, I think I get it. Sony has actually created the perfect anti-piracy  system. If nobody can afford the console, they're sure as hell not going to bother with trying to copy the games.

-S

[SirPoonga]

That's a big reason they are going with vbluray.  Biggest reason is to push bluray.  But the other reason is copying a game will be expensive until burners come out.

[Lilwolf]

btw, there was a great article a bit ago about why microsoft went for the HD format.  It was great.  Talking about what microsoft REALLY wants in that NEITHER blueray or HD make it.  Because since windows doesn't matter... and mediaPC's will work with either or with non... and pretty soon being able to stream movies while watching... this is what microsoft really wants.

but people wont care about bandwidth or pay for a per-download movie if they can rent them... but if theres no renting high def movies... and streaming is the only option...  microsoft will be the winner.

[SNAAKE]

sony dualshock 2 is THE greatest controller ever. I have converter for everything and I use this for dreamcast,pc,gamecube AND xbox too. I still cant belive they are ditching rumble funtion though..I dont understand why they cant keep the rumble wtf

[method]

yeah that sucks theres no rumble, but im thinkin sony wil eventually find a way to bring it bak since people will likley be bitchin for them to bring it bak just like they bitched to have the design of the controller changed.

[markrvp]

I used to love the PS2 dualshock controller until I started playing the Burnout games on Xbox.  I really like the dual analog triggers on the Xbox controller.  In Burnout, I can hit the brake while holding down the gas and get into a good skid.  How do you do that with the PS2 controller?  Isn't the right analog stick up for gas and down for brake?

[delta88]

I dunno about all of you (posters) but working for the cable co means I am in a lot of homes and there are  a TON of HD sets. I go to houses where the  kids are barley fed and bathed and there a samsung plasma or toshiba DLP in the family room. All of our new DVR boxes use component and hdmi. Most use Component but there are a lot of HDMI users out there. The only thing I see happening is a fight over the HD jacks on the tv. most have 1 hdmi like 3 sets of component and a few composite and a s-vid jack. Now with the amount of dvd players and HD cavle box owners out there thats like 2 sets of component jacks used up and or 1 hdmi and 1 component. Little billy is gonna open his new ps3 up and have nowhere to plug it into.

my 2

-d88cents

[SirPoonga]

sony dualshock 2 is THE greatest controller ever. I have converter for everything and I use this for dreamcast,pc,gamecube AND xbox too. I still cant belive they are ditching rumble funtion though..I dont understand why they cant keep the rumble wtf

1 of 2 possible reasons.
Either what they are saying is true, the rumble interferes with the motion sensing.  This could be, especially if it is magnet based.

Or losing the lawsuit cost them too much and they are already loosing money on making the console.

It's a toss up ont he real reason.  Microsoft and Nintendo have rumble and they settled out of court.

[toyfiend2004]

I personally foresee the "little people" re-incorporating rumble when they can like MadCatz, Pelican, etc.  Unless of course the reason IS the magnets, etc.

[shmokes]

I used to love the PS2 dualshock controller until I started playing the Burnout games on Xbox.  I really like the dual analog triggers on the Xbox controller.  In Burnout, I can hit the brake while holding down the gas and get into a good skid.  How do you do that with the PS2 controller?  Isn't the right analog stick up for gas and down for brake?

FWIW, two of the shoulder buttons on the PS3 controller are analog like the Xbox/Gamecube triggers.

[markrvp]

I used to love the PS2 dualshock controller until I started playing the Burnout games on Xbox.  I really like the dual analog triggers on the Xbox controller.  In Burnout, I can hit the brake while holding down the gas and get into a good skid.  How do you do that with the PS2 controller?  Isn't the right analog stick up for gas and down for brake?

FWIW, two of the shoulder buttons on the PS3 controller are analog like the Xbox/Gamecube triggers.

That will be awesome!

[SNAAKE]

I used to love the PS2 dualshock controller until I started playing the Burnout games on Xbox.  I really like the dual analog triggers on the Xbox controller.  In Burnout, I can hit the brake while holding down the gas and get into a good skid.  How do you do that with the PS2 controller?  Isn't the right analog stick up for gas and down for brake?

uh..for ps2 controller its R2 button for gas and L2 for brake and all ps2 buttons are analog. you have an xbox racer cabinet..what you doing playing burnout with a controller ??

[markrvp]

I used to love the PS2 dualshock controller until I started playing the Burnout games on Xbox.  I really like the dual analog triggers on the Xbox controller.  In Burnout, I can hit the brake while holding down the gas and get into a good skid.  How do you do that with the PS2 controller?  Isn't the right analog stick up for gas and down for brake?

uh..for ps2 controller its R2 button for gas and L2 for brake and all ps2 buttons are analog. you have an xbox racer cabinet..what you doing playing burnout with a controller ??

Burnout 3 and Burnout Revenge are the two driving games I prefer to use the controller on.  I stomp too much on the pedals trying to slide around curves.  It's just something I got used to.  The driving cabinet is still new. 

So the PS2 buttons are pressure sensitive?  I just got Gran Turismo 4 and I didn't read the instructions.  Do the R2 and L2 buttons automatically map to gas and brake or do I have to set that up in the game?

[SNAAKE]

yeah all buttons on ps2 controller are pressure sensative but I dunno anything about GT. that game is whack..little TOO real

[shmokes]

PS2 buttons are pressure sensitive, but they don't have the travel and tactile feedback of a good analog trigger.

[farmecologist]

I think the reason the Blu-Ray tech won't be a really big selling point is because it seems like more of an *evolution* of the DVD rather than the *revolution* that the DVD format was.  Frankly, a good majority of folks that currently have PS2s probably just don't have the resources to shell out $600 for the system/player AND the proper setup to take advantage of it.   It seems targeted to more of the high end market. 

Of course, I have been proven wrong many times before :-).

I'm also appalled a the price of the 'next gen' games.  Luckily, my kids are happy playing used GBA games..for now.   .  Has anyone heard what sony is targeting in terms of price?  I assume similar to the X360?
   

[SirPoonga]

PS2 buttons are pressure sensitive, but they don't have the travel and tactile feedback of a good analog trigger.

'They are pressure sensative, but not analog.  They have two "levels" of setecting.  For example.  If you play GTA Vice City and press a button half way down your car will go slow.  If oyu press it all the way down it goes fast.  But it is just two speeds, not varyinf levels of speed.  That's how they can detect how hard you pushed the button, by how fast you trigger both button states.

Actually, there aren't many game that take advantage of it.  Some of hte fighting games do.  The harder you push the button the harder your punch is.  GTA uses is.  But otherwise you don't see it being used too much.

Glad Sony finally desided to copy everyone else on the analog triggers.  I love the triggers on the dreamcast and 360.  Perfect for racing games.  I like controlling the gas and brake with those versus the analog stick.  I think the cube's triggers are analog too.  I don't have any games that use them as analog though.

[AtomSmasher]

PS2 buttons are pressure sensitive, but they don't have the travel and tactile feedback of a good analog trigger.

'They are pressure sensative, but not analog.  They have two "levels" of setecting.  For example.  If you play GTA Vice City and press a button half way down your car will go slow.  If oyu press it all the way down it goes fast.  But it is just two speeds, not varyinf levels of speed.  That's how they can detect how hard you pushed the button, by how fast you trigger both button states.

I'm not sure about the shoulder buttons, but I know thats not true for the rest of the buttons.  I believe their all capable of detecting 256 different levels of pressure, granted it doesn't have the same feel as an analog trigger but it has the same functionality.

[Grasshopper]

I don't actually see pressure sensitive buttons as a good thing from our perspective because it makes it harder to hack controllers to arcade controls. Of course if very few games actually use the pressure sensitive facility then I suppose it doesn't matter.

[SirPoonga]

Computer sees the buttons just fine.   But not the pressure sesative part.  I have a PS2 to usb convertor and have had no problems with my ps2 controller on a pc. 

[shmokes]

Yeah....IIRC it detects far more than two different pressures, but I just don't think it translates well into a game when they feel just like regular on/off digital buttons.  I wonder if the PS3 controller will keep the feature.  If you ask me it's pretty worthless and hardly used.

To be perfectly honest, I'm really excited for the PS3.  I really hope it succeeds and the price comes down a bit cos I don't have a PS2 and I was counting on going back and playing the gems like God of War and Shadow of the Colossus, etc.  Also, I've just not been that excited about the X360 and really don't like the controllers very much.

Of course, I'll own a Wii on launch day.  Hopefully PS3 will come down to the $300-$400 range within a year or so. 

[SirPoonga]

If the price comes down I woul dbe willing to get it.

I want a PS2 and I am thinking of getting one when the PS3 comes out.  Hopefully they will be cheap then.  There's a program called HD Loader which will run games off a PS2 hard drive without a mod chip.

If the PS3 was cheaper I'd get that instead since it is suppose to be backwards compatible.  I could still do the HD Loader thing but still play the new stuff.