I Want to Make My Own Frontend, Help

[ha-Y-n]

For awhile now I've been wanting to create my own frontend, just to see if i could do it.  I have NO programming skillz, but I do want to learn (when time permits).

So, what tools do I need to get started?

thanx

[mhermann]

I am assuming you would use VB or something similar since it has the lowest learning curve. You will need visual studio or some other development environment and a step by step book like VB step by step. That would get you started.

[fatfingers]

I don't know that I condone the use of VB, but if you're thinking of going that way and you have no programming skills then perhaps (and I really mean perhaps) this book might help you out???

[ha-Y-n]

I don't know that I condone the use of VB, but if you're thinking of going that way and you have no programming skills then perhaps (and I really mean perhaps) this book might help you out???

thanx for the responses, the link didn't work btw, but i got to where you meant it to.
is this the one

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0764503707.html

[Howard_Casto]

My best advice is to NOT make a fe.  At least not yet.  Making a front-end that actually does some useful stuff is quite hard, you should start with some simpler projects first.

[ha-Y-n]

My best advice is to NOT make a fe.  At least not yet.  Making a front-end that actually does some useful stuff is quite hard, you should start with some simpler projects first.

that's what i was thinking.  like i said before i want to learn, so i'll start from the basic basic and work my way up. 

do you recommend vb6 or should i use something else?

I should have mentioned that i did take a java programming class about 6years ago, but we did only dos type programs no gui, and i don't remember how to do any of it anymore.
do you recommend java?

anyway thanx for the input, keep them coming thanx

[fatfingers]

Admittedly, I'm a newbie around here, so it doesn't surprise me that the link didn't work (although, it does seem to work when I click on it  )

[Space Fractal]

I used Blitz+ for my AMB jukebox application. Im didden't even like Visual Basic to much (it may been me).

It is a  pretty fast, cheap and very easy language to learn. You even dosen't need any additions runtime files, like Visual Basic, it just made a pure exe file (wich is not very big), alone with the dll's you may use.

The only bad thing is, blitz+ can't wait to the executed applications to been finished. But when Blitz+  support a dll, you can made your own commands in a another language (I even made the missing run/wait command in Pure Basic and compiled to a dll file, so Blitz+ could use it).

Pure Basic is a another fine basic language to learn, but I guess Blitz+ (or blitzmax) is easier to start with.  Pure Basic can made dll too, wich I like very much.

Blitz+: www.blitzbasic.com
Pure Basic: www.purebasic.com

There are limitehed demoes to these languages.

[ha-Y-n]

Admittedly, I'm a newbie around here, so it doesn't surprise me that the link didn't work (although, it does seem to work when I click on it  )

its good now

thanx for the input Space, i'll try those out

[youki]

Hi,

I think it is a good idea to start programming by trying to do a Front End.

Because a simple Front End is very easy to do . And it is something you can make evoluate easily.

Except Howard who seems to have great difficulty to make a Front end ...    it something very easy in comparaison of all thing you could do by programing.  (Howard don't be offense , it is just a joke  ).

Personnaly , i hate Visual Basic.   I had to deal with it in my professional life numerous times  on lot of project of all type. And for me it is a bad tool.  DELPHI is incredibly better and even more easier than Visual Basic.  That 's just my point of view based on my own experience.  Just a question of taste. I hate to be limited by a tool.

AtomicFE engine is coded using Visual C++  , configuration tools are done in Delphi (the new (coming very soon) layout editor is in DELPHI too).   AtomicFE could have been done in Delphi but i wanted to re-use a game-engine i had created few year ago in Visual C++.

But if you are totaly newbie , you could may be think about making your FE  using Flash?  or a very good tool in the phylosophy of visual basic and delphi  called Windev  exists.  That tool is really good for fast powerfull development in all domain.

Blitz basic, is a good alternative too.

I'm looking foward to see your progress!

[mhermann]

I just wanted to make it clear that the reason I suggested VB is because there are a ton of starter books on it and a ton of code examples all over the web more so then probably anything else (besides maybe C). And it is easy to learn although maybe not the easiest.

But someone made a good point that if you do anything in .NET your user base will be required to install the .NET Framework.

[Lilwolf]

You could also consider java.  Mainly because the best java tools out there are all free (Eclipse).  So you can start without spending money.

They are all very very similar in how you do things.  You have to worry about different items in each language.

btw, Java isn't the best language for some things but great for others.  Like for instance, its a pain to deal with video, you can do it, but its not as easy (or more, you don't have as many options). 

But JFront is my frontend written in java and its opensource.  Not that you should start off looking at it (since it might effect how you do things... try it yourself first if its really just for fun).  But it can be done and it can be quick.

btw, I also have a full opengl 3d frontend in java and another frontend that I never released... got it working, and put it on my cab... but never got around to packaging it up.

[thorus]

I'm also considering making my own FE the programming language I'm planning on using is Python not a far throw from VB but it is free and with PYGame a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done.  My friend who codes in it frequently got a FE up and running in about 2 hours.  And that one had a DB backend.

[Howard_Casto]

Hi,

I think it is a good idea to start programming by trying to do a Front End.

Because a simple Front End is very easy to do . And it is something you can make evoluate easily.

Except Howard who seems to have great difficulty to make a Front end ...    it something very easy in comparaison of all thing you could do by programing.  (Howard don't be offense , it is just a joke  ).

Personnaly , i hate Visual Basic.   I had to deal with it in my professional life numerous times  on lot of project of all type. And for me it is a bad tool.  DELPHI is incredibly better and even more easier than Visual Basic.  That 's just my point of view based on my own experience.  Just a question of taste. I hate to be limited by a tool.

Yes a simple front end is quite easy to do.  A simple front-end is also quite useless. 

In order for a front-end to at least be functional it requires the loading of pngs, the parsing of mame's crazy, often illogical, list formats, hierarchial searching (for multiple rom paths and clone/parent relationships for artwork) and the good old "shellandwait" command. 

So you are suggesting that for a person with absolutely zero coding experience, learning how to use external dlls, the windows api and advanced text manipulation all in one project is a nice, simple first project?  I think someone has lost touch with the non-programmer.


For the record delphi and vb are virtually the same language.  If anything you can do more with vb than you can with delphi as delphi is a not offically a m$ language but that's just my opinion.   The problem with delphi is its' what I call a "false" language, as are many of the languages you guys have mentioned.  It doesn't use coding syntax, and rather relies on a bunch of pre-defined functions.  Which is great if you want to get things done, but bad if you are trying to teach yourself how to porgram as it's doing things automatically that will require a bit of heavy lifting in other languages.  Also there aren't as many delphi examples out there as one would like.  That goes for a lot of the languages mentioned so far. 

My suggestion is to stick to a "real" language that you can actually find some help for.   C++, Java, Vb... something like that.  Also steer clear of free ripoffs of real languages.  Some of the vb, knockoffs, for example, use widely different syntax then their m$ counterparts.  This isn't an issue until you try to do something and can't find an example because the language is so unpopular/new nobody has done it yet.

[loadman]

I am just learning programming (if you don't count my Commodore 64 back in the 80's) and I am using VB .net.

The only reason I choose that is a few friends use it so I can bounce ideas of them.

I intend to make a very simple front-end for my own education...But not a good one to be any real use to me or anyone. Just for fun

[Howard_Casto]

I am just learning programming (if you don't count my Commodore 64 back in the 80's) and I am using VB .net.

The olny reason I choose that is a few friends use it so I can bounch ideas of them.

I intend to make a very simple front-end for my own education

That seems like a nice choice, especially if you have actual people you can ask questions. 

Personally I hate the .net language like a passion especially vb.net.  However, I'm not stupid enough not to realize that .net is the future and it's a good choice if you want what you are learning to be useful in the future. 


I guess that has to to with the advice we are giving you hayan.  Are you wanting just to build a fe and that's it or are you really trying to learn how to code?

[lokki]

Hi,

I think it is a good idea to start programming by trying to do a Front End.

Because a simple Front End is very easy to do . And it is something you can make evoluate easily.

Except Howard who seems to have great difficulty to make a Front end ...    it something very easy in comparaison of all thing you could do by programing.  (Howard don't be offense , it is just a joke  ).

Personnaly , i hate Visual Basic.   I had to deal with it in my professional life numerous times  on lot of project of all type. And for me it is a bad tool.  DELPHI is incredibly better and even more easier than Visual Basic.  That 's just my point of view based on my own experience.  Just a question of taste. I hate to be limited by a tool.

Yes a simple front end is quite easy to do.  A simple front-end is also quite useless. 

In order for a front-end to at least be functional it requires the loading of pngs, the parsing of mame's crazy, often illogical, list formats, hierarchial searching (for multiple rom paths and clone/parent relationships for artwork) and the good old "shellandwait" command. 

So you are suggesting that for a person with absolutely zero coding experience, learning how to use external dlls, the windows api and advanced text manipulation all in one project is a nice, simple first project?  I think someone has lost touch with the non-programmer.


For the record delphi and vb are virtually the same language.  If anything you can do more with vb than you can with delphi as delphi is a not offically a m$ language but that's just my opinion.   The problem with delphi is its' what I call a "false" language, as are many of the languages you guys have mentioned.  It doesn't use coding syntax, and rather relies on a bunch of pre-defined functions.  Which is great if you want to get things done, but bad if you are trying to teach yourself how to porgram as it's doing things automatically that will require a bit of heavy lifting in other languages.  Also there aren't as many delphi examples out there as one would like.  That goes for a lot of the languages mentioned so far. 
pular/new nobody has done it yet.

OK for the record it has been a few years since I have used Delphi (last version I used was 4.0 but I used 2 and 3 for a couple of years) But i can't belive you are calling it a false language. it is a fully object oriented programming Language.

It is a very good beginner programming language (based on Object Pascal).  People usually compara Delphi with VB. but Delphi was a fullblown development environment before VB was ever a serious development language (I would say around vb 6). Unfortuntaly VB has grown and delphi pretty much remained where it was.

Also Anders Hejlsberg who was one of the architects of Delphi and is now the main C# architect. And some of the features of Delphi have been adopted by C#.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg

False language is a little harsh. It is not a very popular language. So you are right that there is not as much online information on it. But it does a tight loyal fan community. But it is a very good beginner language. I would say it is a better beginner language thatn VB. Mainly because it is a little stricter than VB. I have serious issues with VB (I still have been using it regularly for the past year or so). But my main issues is not that VB is bad. My main problem is that VB does not penalize bad programming practices. (A good VB programmer can write great programs in VB, but a Bad programmer can write awful programs) . Not sure if this makes sense...

[Howard_Casto]

It makes sense, but that's the very reason I reccomended vb.  Unlike the others you program isn't going to crash and burn if you say, forget to predefine a variable.  It keeps beginners from getting frustrated that nothing works when they are really making minor mistakes that don't effect the functionality of the program anyway.  Oh and there's "on error resume next"  all bow down to "on error resume next".

[Pi]

I have to add my own opinion about Delphi. Delphi is, contrary to the old VB, fully OOP from the beginning. It uses strict syntax (not loose like VB) with very powerful twists, and you can do way more things with Delphi than with VB. Like writing your own components in a breeze. All Delphi components are written actually in Delphi, and you can get the source, and expand them as you want. And it's FAST. The Delphi compiling technology is as good as any C compiler. I've used Delphi since 3.0, I've been using Delphi 7 lately and I'm greatly pleased. Pascal was always my favorite language, but Delphi is much, much better.

Also remember that Delphi is just a product. The language is Object Pascal, and there are free compilers available, a great community, lots of tools and components for it, and it can be used to write cross-platform code quite easily, either if you go thru the "official" course with Kylix, or use any of the free compilers.

The only gripe people have about Delphi is that the human-like syntax makes it look like a too-high level language. Pascal was also developed as a learning language. And that is also one of its good things. You can write complex code and one year later you can read it and understand instantly what it does. But that doesn't mean you can't do low-level stuff easily. And that is one of the big differences it has with VB. I find VB quite limited, but Delphi isn't.

I also consider Delphi a very good first language, specially with the free tutorials available for it.

However, all this is just my opinion. Others will pest or praise at C, or at Java, or at VB, Fortran, Cobol, whatever.... As always

[Space Fractal]

I have seen a lots of great Delphi applications (but I have not tried Delphi), and it may only require one runtime files.

Otherwice all language have god and bad points (even when I recommed  Blitz+ and/or Purebasic, Blitz+ can been too simple, but like its speed).

It the same as Linux VS Windows thing.....

[Pi]

I agree with you, each language has virtues and defects. I used to totally HATE VB  but now I also recommend it for people new to programming if they want to walk a broader path than Delphi and easier than C.

Just for the record, Delphi can compile with or without the need to runtime files (IIRC most Windows C compilers have the same ability). The overhead is about 300kb more in the EXE if you compile without needing runtimes, there's no other difference (other than the DLL hell hassle). I've never done a Delphi app which would really benefit from using runtimes (i.e. with multiple EXE's).

[ha-Y-n]

thanks for all the inputs!

I guess that has to to with the advice we are giving you hayan.  Are you wanting just to build a fe and that's it or are you really trying to learn how to code?

yes pretty much, but if i have to start off small to learn something big then that's fine.

I'm thinking i might go with vb, is it free to use?

thanx

[Pi]

I'm not aware if there are free versions of VB for students and such. Delphi has free versions, or you can use any of the open source IDE with compilers. Java is free, although there's no official IDE. However there are many free IDEs for it.

I'd try to stick with VB or similar for beginning, so you get the fundamentals of programming, and then try to move to other language. Learning new languages can be as fun and satisfying as coding with them. Don't limit yourself to one language.

[danny_galaga]

Hi,

I think it is a good idea to start programming by trying to do a Front End.

Because a simple Front End is very easy to do . And it is something you can make evoluate easily.

Except Howard who seems to have great difficulty to make a Front end ...    it something very easy in comparaison of all thing you could do by programing.  (Howard don't be offense , it is just a joke  ).

Personnaly , i hate Visual Basic.   I had to deal with it in my professional life numerous times  on lot of project of all type. And for me it is a bad tool.  DELPHI is incredibly better and even more easier than Visual Basic.  That 's just my point of view based on my own experience.  Just a question of taste. I hate to be limited by a tool.

Yes a simple front end is quite easy to do.  A simple front-end is also quite useless. 
blah, blah...

why useless? if making teaches a few things about the process then thats great! when you are a youngun and you build a crystal set radio, you dont NOT build it because its not as useful as huge stereo system with surround sound...

[Howard_Casto]

Because there are tons of useful first projects you can make, even related to the emulation community and then you have something to show for each project you do AND you learn as you go. 

[ha-Y-n]

A friend of mine thinks she has a vb6 lying around her house somewhere, so if she can find it that'll save me some bucks.  been busy at work so haven't had time to do my research (not too much anyway).  found this site seems interesting

http://www.martin2k.co.uk/vb6/

So once i get started up again I'll let you guys know.

thanx again for all the help

[headkaze]

If you manage to get a copy of VB6 then I recommend the Xtreme VB Talk forums for getting help with your coding.

[lokki]

You could try the VB Express Edition.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/vb/



http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

Good Luck

[youki]

Humm.. it seems howard  never tried delphi seriously..

I used visual basic from version 1.0  (even VB DOS!) to 6.0  due to my job (not by personnal choice)
I used Delphi from version 1.0 to 7.0  ( now they are at version Delphi 2005 based on .NET too).

I don't see any point where VB could be better than Delphi. And believe me , i have a huge experience of both on very various project and application domain.

Now, i never tried the .NET feature of both. I can not judge.  My current company is more JAVA oriented. So despite some training i had few year ago on .NET, i don't have real experience in it.

I share some points of view than Pi , i think. 

And Delphi 7 personnal version is free.  I got mine in a book i bought , but you can find it on the web.

Tons of forums exists on the web about delphi , and tons of source file can be found.  There is a very great and active community.

Delphi is very good to learn programming, due to his pascal language based on algorithmy rules. There are strict rules that force you to code right , clean and Readable.  VB is far too permissive and you can get very bad habits.

[ha-Y-n]

while i wait on the vb, i'll check out delphi.

thanx

[Space Fractal]

I point I never liked Visual Basic. It was not really basic like AMOS and basic on C64. The syntax is special. The another problem is a lots of runtime files (.net example require a whopping about 21MB download).....

Even I have seen good applications on both language, I would prefer Delphi of these 2 languors.

And Blitz+ and Pure Basic doesn't use any runtime and all. Special Pure Basic create very incredible small exe/dll files as they was made in c++. Pure Basic can even compile to Linux & Mac as well (Blitzmax does the same). dll's is for me never easier to made in Pure Basic. It pretty simple to made them.

However they are made to create homemade games or such, but again. Some games is very good....

This is my own points.