Author Topic: New Project: Modified Doc's Modular (Read 9120 times)

dkammer · « **on:** April 17, 2006, 01:18:46 pm »

Hello...newb here.

My friend and I will each be starting a new MAME project in the next few days. We've decided on implementing a modular control system like Doc's (http://www.beersmith.com/mame/). He's been helpful with some questions but I was wondering if anyone else had done this and could help with any lessons learned?

Thank you!

Darren

mhermann · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2006, 04:31:15 pm »

Well let me say good luck.

Can't tell you any thing about a modular system, but since I am close to completing my first cabinet I will say measure twice and cut once.

The other thing I can say is that in the beginning I was dead set on being able to play every type of game. I have since changed my tune. I have a simple control layout with 2 sticks, 7 buttons each, a trackball, spinner, some admin buttons and thats it.

I think this works for most part so I would just make sure you really want all those controls. You could always make another cabinet

markrvp · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2006, 10:42:10 pm »

I have completed two MAME cabinets and 4 other arcade and console cabinets and I encourage you to build the modular panel. I plan to retrofit my home MAME cabinet with Doc's modular build as well when I finish another couple of projects. There is just no other way to accurately play a bunch of games. I will be watching this thread with interest.

dkammer · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2006, 01:35:51 am »

Thanks for the replies!

I'm going to go with the modular panel...not because it is easy, but because it is hard!

I think I've come up with a unique way to positively lock down the modules and still have a very quick change...more on this later after I test my theory.

Today I purchased the MDF, a slot cutter router bit, keyboard slide rails, hinges, cabinet closures, a couple 2x4s, some replacement countersink bits (broken during my last project), and a good jigsaw blade...I think I'm ready to start this weekend!

I drew out my cabinet in TurboCAD...it is essentially the 24 hour cabinet that Doc used. Any comments on the design would be very much appreciated before I make any cuts!

I will lay out the modular CP and the wiring diagram in TurboCAD as well before I get to them...attached is just the cab itself. If anyone wants, I can post a file format other than .jpg....felt this was the common denominator.

Darren

mhermann · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2006, 04:31:59 pm »

I didn't me to deter you. Go for it! I guess the only good point to my post that is everyone is different. Just think about what you want and do it.

Good luck!!

dkammer · « **Reply #5 on:** April 20, 2006, 07:51:04 am »

No offense taken...I'm a newbie in this realm so I'll take all the advice I can get.

I decided to change the design a bit. I was worried about the cabinet not being deep enough to comfortably handle the 21" monitor...added about 6" there. I was also concerned the monitor wasn't angled up enough (it was tilted up 5 degrees) so I made an adjustment there as well...it's at 8 degrees now.

The modular control panel drawing is still in work...going through changes. I'll probably have something early next week but I really like the direction it's heading.

The new version is attached in .pdf format...any and all comments are much appreciated!

Thank you!

Darren

Havok · « **Reply #6 on:** April 20, 2006, 08:24:42 am »

Looks great so far. I have hot-swappable panels, but still had to compromise my controls to fit. I love this setup, you can basically mimic the exact arcade setup - which is what I was going for. Make sure to fully document this, I'm watching with much interest!

What kind of learning curve is involved with TurboCAD? Building my first cab, I just got an idea of what I wanted, eyeballed it, then made it work once I had the pieces. I would really love to completely work it out on the computer first, before even cutting any wood...

dkammer · « **Reply #7 on:** April 20, 2006, 09:34:52 am »

Havok,

CAD can be a pretty steep learning curve if you've never done any kind of technical drawing...it is not anything like a paint or photo editing program. It is by no means beyond you but it takes a while to become efficient. Consider QCAD or some other less expensive (some even FREE!) packages to cut your teeth on before shelling out a few hundred bucks for TurboCAD...you will likely find that the cheap packages do everything you could ever want to do.

I certainly recommend finding a drawing tool that suits you. I find it extremely helpful to "see" my ideas before I build them...catch quite a few mistakes that way.

Darren

dkammer · « **Reply #8 on:** April 24, 2006, 10:08:55 am »

Ok...for those who are watching this thread...

I'm really sorry! I wasn't able to get started this weekend...I got really wrapped up in cleaning the garage (which needed to be done before I could work effectively) so it looks like it will be this weekend.

I do have a question though...I will be cutting out the cabinet sides from MDF and was wondering if I should do the whole thing with a jigsaw or should I make the straight cuts with a circular saw and then do the small details (rounded corners, etc..) with the jigsaw?

Thanks!
Darren

markrvp · « **Reply #9 on:** April 24, 2006, 11:58:05 am »

Quote from: dkammer on April 24, 2006, 10:08:55 am

I do have a question though...I will be cutting out the cabinet sides from MDF and was wondering if I should do the whole thing with a jigsaw or should I make the straight cuts with a circular saw and then do the small details (rounded corners, etc..) with the jigsaw?

You can do it either way. A circular saw with a straight edge to guide it is the fastest, cleanest way to do the straight cuts.

Havok · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:08:41 pm »

You can do it either way, but trust me - use a circular saw as much as you can. I had to re-do a couple of cuts on more than one occasion (or sand it) - I would made the cut ok with the jigsaw, but would angle it in or out. I suppose if you use a straight edge this wouldn't matter, but my recommendation would be a circular saw...

dkammer · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2006, 10:29:43 pm »

Hello again!

I did get started today! A week late but who's counting?

I got the sides cut out and the t-molding slots done...that's about it but I had other family things to do today as well.

My friend and I are still going back and forth about the modular control panel improvements...we have something now but we're not thrilled with it yet. As soon as we've solidified the design, I will share it with all!

Pictures of the first day are here: http://www.kodakgallery.com/thekammers/main/mame_project

Any and all comments/questions are welcome. More to come tomorrow...I should have it standing up.

BTW: I have received all my controls from arcadesrfun on e-bay...GREAT GUY to work with and very fair pricing! I also bought the ezcontrols spinner...looks nice but we'll see when I get it put in.

Darren

markrvp · « **Reply #12 on:** April 29, 2006, 10:50:59 pm »

Looks great. Nice, clean woodworking.

I also like the Easy Share gallery.

dkammer · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2006, 12:00:22 am »

Markvp: Thanks for the compliment!! I've only been doing any kind of woodworking for a little over two years and I consider myself a marginal carpenter at best; so someone complimenting my work really made my day!

Anyway...life just keeps getting in the way...

All I was able to get done today is fastening the "mounting strips" onto the sides...didn't get any of the mdf cut for the front or back; hopefully some evening this week will be productive.

Since no one I could find has said how they got the strips in the right place...I will explain how I did it.

1. Put one of the sides on the table, inside side up.
2. Make a spacer jig to put up against a flat edge...the piece attached should be the distance you want your "mounting strip" to be away from the edge (pictured).
3. Butt one of the mounting strips against the jig in the position you want to fasten it to the side and clamp in place.
4. Drill pilot holes in the strip ALL THE WAY THROUGH the strip AND MDF!
5. Repeat for every mounting strip.
6. Turn the cabinet side over so the outside is on top.
7. Counter-sink all the holes.
8. Put a screw in each hole so it just sticks out the bottom of the MDF.
9. Match up the screws with the holes in a mounting strip and clamp to the bottom of the MDF (pictured).
10. Turn the screws all the way in now so the strip is fastened securely.
11. Repeat for all mounting strips.

I hope that's clear...I had to think of how to do it for a few minutes. There's probably an easier way but that's what I did to ensure that both sides have mounting strips at the identical distance from the edge.

I think we may have the solution for the modular CP!!! I'm drawing it now and I'm going to test the theory...hopefully I'll have something to show you this week!

A few new pictures on http://www.kodakgallery.com/thekammers/main/mame_project .

Darren

Stobe · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:06:39 am »

Darren,

I may be mostly wrong, but I think the one of the main reasons for the mounting strips is to limit the number of screws necessary from the outside of the cab. I think most people simply glue and screw the strips from the inside, so there is no countersinking needed. (thus no puddy, sanding, sanding, or sanding needed, lol).

Your way obviously sounds more secure, so more power to you.

Keep up the good work!

-Stobe

dkammer · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:15:34 am »

Stobe,

It's been my (very short) experience that trying to put screws in the edge of MDF is a fool's errand...too many things can go wrong. That's why I felt it necessary to go with the mounting strips.

I will be filling in the holes with wood putty before I paint the cab so (assuming I do a reasonable job of it) they won't show on the finished product.

Darren

dkammer · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2006, 11:52:46 pm »

OK...I have a working prototype of the modular CP system!!!! Pictures will be on my website tomorrow (haven't taken any yet). I am very pleased with this...I have to say it came out looking much closer to doc's than many of the other options explored. It takes some moderately precise carpentry but nothing rediculous...table saw and router table highly recommended!

Anyway...that's the news...drawings and pics tomorrow.

Darren

leapinlew · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2006, 07:57:59 am »

Looking great Darren...

I have a question about your MDF. When I routed mine, I too had some issues with it smoking and burning. But, I figured out before I got too far that I had the slot cutter bit on upside down. It was turning the wrong way. With MDF, it still cut through it, but once I switched the bit over it was like buttah. Was your bit on the right way? It spins clockwise on mine.

Anyhow, keep up the good documentation and good work.

dkammer · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2006, 10:42:43 am »

leapinlew: NOW you tell me! Sounds plenty likely since I didn't even consider the idea that I could have it upside-down! No harm I guess but I'll bet that's it...

Pictures of the prototype are up!! http://www.kodakgallery.com/thekammers/main/mame_project

I really want to hear everyone's comments! There may be some improvements to be made that we didn't think of. Fire away!!

Darren

markrvp · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2006, 03:12:03 pm »

That's really cool. I have a couple of questions.

1.) On your final cabinet, the cabinet sides will take the place of the sides on your prototype box, correct? You are just building the rabbeted back plate, the rails with dowels, and the front swing-down door into the cabinet sides, right?

2.) The sides on your prototype are 3/4" shorter than the top of the panels. On your finished cabinet, the tops of the panels will be flush with the top of CP part of the cabinet sides, right?

3.) Doc used the dowels in part because he didn't have the front swing-down door like you to lock the panels in place. In all reality, as long as you had the CP filled with panels, your method doesn't have to have the dowels. The friction from the front piece, the back fold-down door, and the sides would keep the panels from moving front-to-back or side-to-side. Do you agree with my assessment? The dowels give additional lock-in placement, but aren't necessary due to your fold-down front door which locks it in place.

The only thing that I'm not crazy about with the prototype is the exposed hinges and the lip at the bottom where the hinges attach. It just seems a little "un-finished" I am attaching an image of what I am guessing the side profile of the inside of the finished cabinet will look like. Please confirm if this is what you are thinking too.

I would also really like to see the slimline deadbolt latches as I am having a hard time picturing how they are going to work.

Great job!!

dkammer · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2006, 04:02:22 pm »

markrvp,

1) Originally, the idea was to have the cabinet sides as the side of the box, however, I think now I will build this box outside the cabinet and put it in at an angle. This will make it easier to make changes or replace anything later...just pull the whole box out. I will be making the sides out of 1/2" mdf instead though.

2) Because of the answer in #1 above...the sides will be flush with the bottom of the modules so they can go all the way to the side. The cabinet will actually be higher than the CP by about 1/4" - 1/2" (plus t-molding) creating a finished look.

3) I was thinking about not using the dowels but I like the extra stability and it's not difficult to do, however, you are right...I don't think they are completely necessary anymore. If for some reason your modules don't fit perfectly, the pegs will ensure they don't move at all.

As for the hinges...they are not what I will be using in the final product! The ones pictured were used because they were cheap. The final ones will be mounted on the inside of the box so they will be hidden. It will likely be a piano hinge as well for extra strength.

The bolts I am considering are:
http://tinyurl.com/fwv2q
http://tinyurl.com/f7dzl

Both are finished and look attractive but I am leaning toward the second one. They will push into holes in the side of the cabinet. I will mount them so I can move the receiving hole front-to-back to adjust the tightness.

If anyone has a good idea/experience with other types of latches or hinges...I'm definately listening!! These will work but I'm not convinced they are the best thing out there.

Darren

markrvp · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2006, 04:11:57 pm »

Hey Darren:

I didn't see your signature until just now. I live down in Granbury about an hour and a half from you. When you get this baby finished, I'd love to come take a look at it.

dkammer · « **Reply #22 on:** May 07, 2006, 04:35:54 pm »

Sure!! You're welcome whenever you want to come and help!

Seriously...feel free to stop by whenever you're in the area.

Darren

dkammer · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2006, 04:26:17 pm »

Finally getting some work done today...pics later! I have the cabinet standing on its own and I hope to have the modular CP installed (no wiring yet).

Darren

dkammer · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2006, 04:21:01 pm »

New pics are up!! http://www.kodakgallery.com/thekammers/main/mame_project ....new ones start at pic 34.

I still have to put the locks on the door and pretty a few things up but it is essentially done. The locks I will be using are the same bolts you use on a door at the top and bottom when you want to keep it stationary. These will be oriented sideways and push into the side of the cabinet where there will be appropriate holes to lock them into place.

As always...any and all comments, suggestions, kudos, constructive criticism, insults, heckling, and flaming are all welcome!

Darren

markrvp · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2006, 08:15:11 pm »

Nicely done.

Be sure you paint it before you make it playable - otherwise you might not ever finish.

xkrylonx · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2006, 04:54:06 pm »

only had a chance to skim through the thread (as i'm at work!), but i checked out the pics of your modular locking design. VERY nice woodwork indeed! i like the idea of the door holding everything snug, very cool. i made my CP seperate from my cabinet so i could eventually come up with a modular solution. perhaps i'll adapt your methods eventually

keep up the good work.

dkammer · « **Reply #27 on:** June 07, 2006, 05:40:56 pm »

Thanks for the nice comments!

Work has been moving slowly...just very little time. I have been making some progress though:

Locking bolts are now on the CP door
The keyboard drawer is installed
Put on the final top and top-back pieces of the cabinet
Created and installed the speaker panel

It's getting close to being in paintable condition at this point...might get that done this weekend.

On another note: had to use the slot-cutter bit again for the speaker panel and one peice of the CP...I turned the bit over so it was rotating the proper direction but still had a LOT of smoke. It could be that I dulled it considerably by having it installed backward.

Also...Kodak changed the gallery url (added a level in the directory tree). I changed it in the earlier messages in the thread but the new url is: http://www.kodakgallery.com/thekammers/main/mame_project .

I will update pictures within the next day or so...no new ones right now.

Darren

dkammer · « **Reply #28 on:** July 27, 2006, 10:45:21 pm »

OK...I am back!!! Been making little progress here and there but not enough to write about until now. Got the cabinet painted, modules prep'ed, and the main wiring completed!

Read all about it in the gallery...please let me know what you think!!!!

Darren

BlinKY1337 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 28, 2006, 11:25:42 am »

WOW this project is coming out great cant wait to see it completed.

dkammer · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2006, 12:29:32 am »

Played my first games today!!!!

I had it all wired Friday and built a couple of modules...however...when I plugged them in, nothing worked

. It was so bad I thought I might have a bad IPAC....I just couldn't figure out what could possibly be causing the complete weirdness I was seeing.

We had a party at the house on Saturday so I was kind of bummed I didn't have it running...we were getting the house ready most of the day so I had no time to trouble-shoot. Worked on it today and found rather quickly that the patch panel isn't wired as I thought...if I had thought about it for a minute I would have realized but I didn't.

I mapped out the pins and changed the connections on my modules to match and voila!! they work beautifully! I now have joystick and 6 button modules working...they aren't painted but it's nice to see!

I did run into another problem though...I have a USB spinner that I connected through a hub in the CP. When in Windows, it moves the mouse left to right (the actual mouse is connected and works fine too). However, I cannot seem to get Tempest (or any other game) to respond to the spinner. Tempest responds to the mouse and joystick....any ideas?

Thanks!!!
Darren

Havok · « **Reply #31 on:** July 31, 2006, 10:05:59 am »

Congrats! Keep those pics coming.

As far as the spinner not working, make sure you have enabled mouse support in Mame. Check your mame.ini file for this entry:

### Input device options ###
mouse 1

dkammer · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2006, 02:50:49 pm »

Thanks for the idea but that didn't work...already set.

Like I said...Tempest will respond to moving the mouse...just not the spinner even though the spinner will move the pointer on the screen left to right in Windows.

Darren

Havok · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2006, 03:24:21 pm »

Have you tried opening the admin panel (Tab) and setting the default interface as the spinner ?

dkammer · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2006, 06:11:43 pm »

Not sure what you're talking about...I'm using PowerMame and I've specified Mouse everywhere I can. I think this is telling me that I can't have a regular mouse hooked up at the same time as the spinner.

BTW: it's an EZ Arcade Solutions Spinner.

Darren

Havok · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2006, 09:13:56 pm »

What version of PowerMame are you using? I believe it is a fairly recent development where Mame now supports multiple mice?

Dudeman · « **Reply #36 on:** August 01, 2006, 09:57:10 am »

Quote from: dkammer on April 20, 2006, 09:34:52 am

Consider QCAD or some other less expensive (some even FREE!) packages to cut your teeth on before shelling out a few hundred bucks for TurboCAD...

I used Alibre Design Express. It's free, came with many tutorials, and works like a charm. My only other experience with CAD programs is with AutoCAD (which has a steep learning curve, IMHO), and I like this one much better.
http://www.alibre.com

dkammer · « **Reply #37 on:** August 01, 2006, 10:54:12 pm »

I'm using the latest (105.01).

I was able to get things working by removing my mouse and rebooting. Now I don't have a mouse in Windows but the games work fine with the spinner.

Any way I can have both at the same time??

Darren

dkammer · « **Reply #38 on:** November 09, 2006, 05:49:44 pm »

Wow...it's been a while!

New pics up...still not done yet...might be the longest project in history....
http://www.kodakgallery.com/thekammers/main/mame_project

Modules completed: Joystick (2), 6-Button (2), Q*Bert stick, Spinner, Flight Stick, Spacers (3).

Modules in-work: Track Ball, Control Buttons

Modules planned: Light Guns, Steering Wheel (with pedals)

Left to do: Monitor Bezel, Keyboard Drawer, Marquis, and I think that's it...

Thanks for looking!

Darren

theCoder · « **Reply #39 on:** November 09, 2006, 09:26:41 pm »

How have you/do you deal with admin buttons with this approach? I didn't see any in your photos.

Looks good.

dkammer · « **Reply #40 on:** November 09, 2006, 09:41:12 pm »

Yeah...that's one more thing I have to do. I've already cut and painted the piece for it but it's not installed yet.

It's a peice of MDF that goes essentially where the keyboard is now but is permanently mounted facing the player. There are six buttons on it. It will cover the very top of the control panel and give a place for the monitor bezel to dissappear into.

Not sure if that made sense...but I will have time to work on it this weekend so I'll likely have new pics.

dkammer · « **Reply #41 on:** November 20, 2006, 11:18:44 pm »

Hey all,

New pics are up on the website! I finished the keyboard drawer and put on the door as well(not completely finished, but close). Also wired up and placed the control buttons (though not mounted permanently yet), and installed the marquis light and an on/off switch for it on the back of the cabinet.

Coming together little by little...everyone should really listen to those warnings about not making your game operational until it's done!! Once you can play it...there not as much motivation to finish!

Comments are encouraged as always!

Darren


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