Author Topic: All-in-one-super-console-PC project (Read 3956 times)

Crowquill · « **on:** March 14, 2006, 02:00:47 am »

While it's hardly original, I'm surprised that I can't find many projects on the boards of PCs built for straight console emulation on a TV. Does anyone have some good links to examples of this sort of thing?

I realized as I was trying to clean and organize the house that I have a pretty large collection of systems and games that I love, but I never play them since I have to gather and hook up controllers, power cords, and video cables. I also have a Sega CD that I CAN'T play since I lost the AC adapter the last time I moved. I also have an old HP Pavilion that's just been sitting on a shelf. A light went on above my head and the super-console PC project was underway.

My current plans:
Install windows, emulators, ROMs, and Mamewah. Have the system boot into Mamewah as a shell. Run emulators covering 2600-SNES. I would think these should run fine on this system. The upgraded processor is pretty cheap, and the rest are all parts I have lying around with the exception of a second wireless PS2 pad. Anyone see any problems with this setup?

System:
667 MHz celeron (which I'm swapping out with a 1.1 GHz Celeron)
192MB of memory
20GB Hard Drive
ATI Rage Pro w/ S-Video out
2 RadioShack PS2-->USB adapters
2 wireless PS2 pads (already have one)

Probably the most time-consuming part is going to be making screens for each system for MameWah. I'm planning a common background image/pattern with a header reflecting the logo and packaging for each system (i.e. Genesis will be black w/ a silver grid). The background image/pattern will probably be a different color for each system. I'll be sure to upload them once they're complete.

Any thoughts?

Stobe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2006, 12:45:13 pm »

Sounds like a good plan. I've packed up my boxes and boxes of old sega/nintendo carts and put them in storage, and saved a bunch of room in the entertainment center.

But I think the reason why you don't see more projects like this is because a lot of people (like myself) use the xbox as their "all-in-one" console emulator. I have the upright cab for mame/arcade stuff, with some console emus on it, but when it comes down to pure classic console playing, I like the xbox hooked up to the TV, using a gamepad rather than sticks. (plus you can sit on the couch rather than the bar stool, lol)

But when you come up with some nice MameWAH layouts, please share

-Stobe

MajorLag · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2006, 02:46:47 pm »

I built one... well, a prototype for one. I always planned on making it as console like as possible and never quite got around to it. I call it "The EmuCon".

One thing you want to think about, that you didn't mention, was how the interface is going work. Will it require a keyboard? Alot of the work I did on the emucon was eliminating as much keyboard and mouse use as possible. Specifically, every emulator has its own keyboard exit shortcuts, most of which are different from eachother. I used a windows short-cut hotkey combo (alt-f11) to launch a script that kills any running emulators. There are a few other controls I left on the keyboard for navigating the "frontend" (just explorer running in list mode with high-contrast theme, the navigation bar removed, and a top level folder you can't back out of), and the 2600 switches. 9 Keys in total, if you count alt-f11 as one. I plan on eventually building a remote-like device to take the place of the keyboard.

The reason I didn't use something like Mamewah is that I have full sets for all the consoles I support, and some of those names are really long so I doubt they'd show up well.

I see you also decided to go with PS->USB adaptors. You probably did it for different reasons then I did. I did it because I wanted a versitile range of controlers, where I'd only ever have to configure them once for each emulator. Whats more, old PS controllers are cheap and relatively easy to hack (I'll get to that in a minute). You might want to try and find some 6-button layout PS controllers for use with the genesis emulation though.

The 2600 was the most dificult challenge. I wanted to support as much as possible with it, but stella does not allow you to map analog joystick axis for paddles! Its not even like it'd be hard, the code to support analog paddles via joystick is already present for stelladaptor support. So I hacked up the windows regestry to make my PS->USB adaptors appear as "Stelladaptor", fooling stella into thinking they were the real deal. So now I can use hacked PS controllers for paddle games. I even found ways to make Driving controllers and Trackballs work, but they were supported by so few games I never bothered to do the (much more extensive) hacking.

Now my only complaints are the boot up time and the fact that windows boot screens are visible. I'm sure I can fix the latter with a little hacking if I look into it, but you can't really do much about boot up times.

Good luck with your project. If you have questions, I'll offer any help I can.

Rip · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2006, 03:23:58 pm »

Quote from: Crowquill on March 14, 2006, 02:00:47 am

Probably the most time-consuming part is going to be making screens for each system for MameWah. I'm planning a common background image/pattern with a header reflecting the logo and packaging for each system (i.e. Genesis will be black w/ a silver grid). The background image/pattern will probably be a different color for each system. I'll be sure to upload them once they're complete.

Any thoughts?

Have you seen the MAMEWAH console skins here:

http://localarcade.com/screenshotarchive/skins.htm

There are some pretty nice consistent themes available.

John

slycrel · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2006, 04:26:57 pm »

I'll second the xbox comment above. I actually have an xbox in my cab, so I bought another for general use. I ended up modding both and putting the larger HDD on the general use xbox. I find that I'd rather play the stand-up MAME type games on the arcade machine, but for older consoles I tend to gravitate towards the xbox. Some of this has to do with control layouts, but mostly it's that the controllers feel more natural and the games are made for longer periods of time -- better sitting on the couch than standing / on a high stool.

I will say that that first 85-90% of the xbox setup is more straightforward and boots faster than a windows machine. losing the flexibility of customization (in some respects) that a PC has makes some workarounds difficult. i will say here that all you software developers (and I am one, heh) that make your control bindings non-customizable should be shot. There area couple cool emulators that I'd like to use but can't currently due to control restraints. (i.e. snes9x has a horrible control layout for an arcade machine but it's great for the standard xbox controllers. Not customizable though)

What you're talking about is really the way that I went originally. The thing that always got me was the boot time. I had a hard time making the kids wait 45+ seconds before starting to press buttons. (In win98, pressing some of the keys standard from the iPac during windows start time has caused me activation issues)

There's pros and cons with all the common ways. I think the big thing is to focus your project. Originally I wanted my arcade machine to play everything, including music and maybe some DVD's and movie clips. Now I'm going more for just arcade games, and using the standard xbox for the other stuff and it's working out great.

SithMaster · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:34:30 pm »

i also had the idea for a pc to tv console for emus but i never got around to it because:
pc and case i had to use looked bad and was too large

the same adapters you are going to use would need to be made internal for my purposes

and you'd have to make the controls for everything keyboard and mouse free

seems simple to do but i never got around to it and then i went and got a cab so the pc i was going to use is going inside that instead.
just make sure the case looks good and youll do fine.

MajorLag · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2006, 08:03:29 pm »

I could see why you'd want to use an xbox for quicker boot times and ease of setup, but I think the benefits of using a PC outweigh the costs. PCs have a much better selection of emulators, much more hackability (whats the point in having an EmuCon if you can't play 2600 warlords?), and to top it off the average PC is slightly smaller than an xbox (I kid, of course. But really, a mini-itx can be put into a much smaller case even with 2 PS->USB adaptors).

Just to have it out there, my EmuCon currently supports:
Atari 2600 (theoretically every controller but the lightgun)
Colecovision
Intellivision
GameGear
Sega Master System
Gameboy
NES
Genesis
SNES

And it could support more if I wanted to add them.

Crowquill · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2006, 01:34:16 pm »

The main reason I'm going the Mamewah/windows route is past experience. My MAME cabinet boots into Mamewah as a shell, and then controls completely through the control panel. This has worked well and now that I have some experience figuring out Mamewah it should go fairly smooth. There are probably better options, but this will definitely be the easiest to implement and also gives me decent control of the visuals and menus. I'm sure there will be some compromises and changes to get it to work well with ALL of the emulators.

The case on that Pavilion is about as small as a Micro-ATX case can get. I'm trying to figure out a good way to mount controller ports on the front of the system. A few coats of paint will probably help the look of the case too. It helps that it was all shades of gray in the first place (no beige).

daywane · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2006, 08:22:09 pm »

I am doing this very same thing now.
stared about a month ago.

Tinker here and there. ...
check out software forum
Atomic FE and his Plug and play mods (sweet)
supports AVI files (my movie's)
all main console N64 and older consoles
( I am still working on fine tuning it all....)
(emulators are in the plug and play modules)
I am using a 2 gig CPU
120 gig HD
bumping the ram up next week to 512
pci slot TV out card
XP pro
DVD burner (light on)

He just added a update.... I need to check this one out.
I just started a few days ago on the Nintendo plug and play
tossed in a complet set of Nintendo ROM
took like 2 min to show the list.
I think this has been remade for much faster time.

I have had these pads converted to PC
Atari 2600
super Nintendo
Sega Gen
hope to get the turbo grafix done in a few months
N64 and PSX are with converters
( my NES pads are made to PSX ) (thanks spiffy )
Reason... It might be nes emulator on PSX is great
also dream cast nes emu is great and with a PSX to Dreamcast converter
all my bases are covered

I have this hooked up to a 32" TV Svid.
I went into settings and changed all fonts to 15
a few menues are still small.
I have not had time to perfect this beast yet
but I am finding this to be my favorite project so far

Crowquill · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2006, 12:43:56 pm »

I'll have to check out AtomicFE. From what I've seen it looks nice.

I was trying to make things easy by using MameWah, but maybe I should step outside my comfort zone to make it work better in the end.

One reason I like MameWah is the ability to customize the artwork and layout so much. Attached is a quick mock-up of what I want the screens to look like. I was wondering what size I would have to make the fonts to make them readable on the TV. The mock-up is 18pt. I think the header at the top will probably need to be smaller. I want to try and keep it simple though. This is definitely too simple though. I'm thinking I should at least add a picture of the console.

What do you guys think?

daywane · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2006, 04:23:39 pm »

the plug and play I have used has a console pic.
I have only installed the nes one .
the nes is in the upper right corner of the screen
I went with 15 pts most everything is fine for me.
some menus on windows I have yet to track down and change

I would bet the others have the console pic also
I am sticking to my guns on this one.
get each console a close to perfect as I can before I load any others.
I tend to load it all up at first and play to much.

anyone use component? I think it is called that
looks like regular old audio/video plugins except the collars are differant
green=y
blue=Pb
red=Pr

just what in the heck is this?
one guy at work said it is sharper than svideo

any links to a video card for this.
I will start searching but not sure what to type in.

cabe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2006, 05:17:01 pm »

component video is analog high def video.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video should see you right.

SithMaster · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2006, 05:51:06 pm »

if you include a pic of the system go for model 2 of the genesis.

MajorLag · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2006, 12:36:07 am »

About the front ends mentioned, do any of them have rom name scrolling? The reason I went with the "frontend" I did was because I use full sets so the names get rather long and the few frontends I tried couldn't display them readably in their entirety. I'd much rather have something that doesn't look like... well, explorer.

youki · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2006, 10:42:21 am »

Hi All,

AtomicFE seems a good choice for what you want to do.
And thanks to his plug'n play module you can have something working very fast. No configuration required.

Of course, then , you can customize Module , to change sking or adjust as you want. Modules for lot of console exists already and others will come soon. For instance, a Sega Saturn module should be ready for next week. Dreamcast and PSX are planned too. Check modules already available on : http://www.atomicfe.com

concerning the Scrolling of game names, you can do that with Atomic ,but you have to use script in the current version. The next version will have improved layout possibilities and should include that without having to use script and a brand new layout editor very easy to use and very powerfull.

Crowquill · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2006, 12:31:40 am »

I've had limited time to work out the software and front-end, but I have been thinking a lot about the case. The Pavilion cases are fairly small and it really isn't that ugly by mass-marketed-PC standards, but it still looks like a PC. I decided to scratch-build a more console-looking case.

I had some free time at work today so I roughed out my favorite of the sketches I have so far. It's still very subject to change, but I was taken aback by how cool it turned out. The only accessible drive on the front will be a slot-loading CD-ROM drive. The grate-looking metal panel I already have the material for (it's also the speaker grill for my MAME cabinet), and the outer shell will be either bent plexiglas or sheet metal. I'm hoping to have room in the case to mount Playstation controller ports on the front.

It kind of reminds me of a hybrid between an electric razor and a mailbox. But it doesn't look like a PC.

SithMaster · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2006, 03:40:25 pm »

Could always use a non working console's case, like dreamcast, and just paint it and remove the logo.

i like the front of the one you designed but i dont really care for the curve. it is original though no other console has that shape so if you can pull it off yey.

Crowquill · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2006, 04:38:12 pm »

I could use the shell of a console, but I'm trying to avoid buying a lot of new hardware and the smallest Mobo I have is a MicroATX in the HP.

I'm thinking it's easier to build a case around the hardware than to make it fit into an existing shell. The materials to build the case are cheaper than buying a new case too.

This guy used an NES:
http://zatch.brazoslink.net/Nintendo/NintendoPC.html

MajorLag · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2006, 04:55:06 pm »

Case looks nice. Much better than the Pavilion case at any rate.
If I ever manage to find time to finish mine I'm planning on using a Mini-ITX in a custom air-brushed acrilic case.

daywane · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2006, 10:08:34 pm »

I just used a desktop case
I wanted the 2 drives. DVD and DVD burner
card reader and usb hub in the floppy drive bays

I figured I would not hide the fact it is a PC.
All the time,effort, and funds spent on converting my gamepads over.

I am showing it off. I went with the desk top so it would fit in a shelf like my DVD player and other consoles, Satelite receiver and stereo.
all black except my PC it is white. Behind a black door when not in use
Crystal track ball and wireless keyboard.

Jubal · « **Reply #20 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:47:35 am »

Quote from: daywane on March 31, 2006, 10:08:34 pm

All the time,effort, and funds spent on converting my gamepads over.

I am modding an xbox currently for this purpose

having orig retro console controllers is a must for my project.

I currently want to wire up ports from consoles into the xbox, so i can use unaltered retro controllers.

xbox controller ports are just an altered usb port, so if i can convert the retro ports to usb using someting like the chips from http://www.retrousb.com, then it may work =)

for atari 2600 emulation I am definitely getting 2 stelladaptor ports (they support paddle controllers)
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=0&products_id=7899&

for NES, the retrozone chip is one option,
tho i found this on ebay, but i haven't found much about it
http://cgi.ebay.com/NES-Nintendo-Game-Controller-to-PC-USB-Adapter_W0QQitemZ9713314997QQ

2 genesis ports via retrozone chips, anybody know any other options, or a good source for 9 pin connector ports?

2 SNES ports via retrozone chip, or maybe this converter
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=183&products_id=4234
this converter already has the ports, which is a plus.

N64 I am a little stumped on, I would love to get ahold of an "Adaptoid"
http://www.jandaman.com/adaptoid.shtml they seem rare as hens teeth these days
but I see there is another option with http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=&products_id=93&
this one doesn't support rumble, but I'm not sure the xbox version of the emulator supports the adaptoid anyhow.

ps one converters are very common so i have options there, does anybody have a preferred PSone to USB converter, that supports rumble and such?

anybody have any thoughts, or any links that i have missed that will help? =)

-Jubal-


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