Arcade art library will have to come down.

[mahuti]

I don't have time to go into it, but I've been served notice, and it's time to take the AAL offline for good.

Please don't rush to download everything. Anybody that wants it can have the content can request an FTP address of it, and anybody interested can have the entire thing lock-stock-and barrell to host on another site.

It's been fun. I can't have my life ruined over it, though.

[rohan]

Wow ....Your service to the community has been amazing...I figured this might happen; it's quite a loss for so many people.  Do you still have interest in hosting homebrews, or has being served soured you on the whole thing?  I figure that's going to have to be a rhetorical question, because you said you "don't have time to go into it", but it just such a disappointment.  All things considered, you've made the right choice.  Maybe when I graduate, I'll be willing to host these things in another site.

[mahuti]

Good idea, yeah, I should still host the homebrews, or stuff that's at least MOSTLY not in violation of the DMCA. *damn dmca... grumble*

[Nannuu]

Well that stinks the big one.  I am surprised it lasted that long though.  Please continue to host homebrew stuff.  That is still a great assett.

[Witchboard]

What probably happened is one of the "professional" printers finished downloading all the content then provided an "anonymous" tip. 

[spriggy]

Damn!.....sorry to here mahuti!!   You did an awesome job while it lasted.  Thankyou!!

Maybe we could start a sub-branch of the Artwork forum and compile a list (in the form of a sticky thread) of all the vectored artwork with byoac member's nickname (whom the file was compiled by) next to the file as reference (if the're members?!).  You could PM the member for the file if you need it!  If a new file is compiled... make your usual announcements in 'Artwork'... then pm a moderator to add the file title, with nickname reference, to the list.

Problems is.. the list would be damn huge!.  However, If you had individual sticky's for each artwork sub-heading, ie marquee, cpo, side art etc...it would make it a bit easier to search for files.   Yeh, the sticky list would be fairly long, but this sub-branched forum would only be used for the purpose of file listings and requests anyway.  Hence, no real need for anything other than the sticky threads.  You could make requests for the individual files (if your unable to contact the original compiler) within the artwork sub-headings.

...or maybe I'm just rambling adhock?  Ideas??

[NinjaEpisode]

What probably happened is one of the "professional" printers finished downloading all the content then provided an "anonymous" tip. 

Now that would be stupid wouldn't it? 

Professional Printer: "Hey DMCA, here's where I get my artwork from that I print up and charge money for."  "I'm sorry, what? You want me to stop too?"








Mahuti - PM Sent

[Witchboard]

What probably happened is one of the "professional" printers finished downloading all the content then provided an "anonymous" tip. 

Now that would be stupid wouldn't it? 

Professional Printer: "Hey DMCA, here's where I get my artwork from that I print up and charge money for."  "I'm sorry, what? You want me to stop too?"

anonymous
One entry found for anonymous.
 

Main Entry: anon

[NinjaEpisode]

I understand that....what you're missing though, is, if I'm the professional printer, printing up marquees for a living for instance,  I would consider it beneficial to me to have a site such as AAL up and running.  I get more people interested in creating their own marquees, thus more people needing printing.

Now, if I'm a Kinkos, well, Kinkos blows...there's just no excuse for them, and there's really no benefit that they would gain by doing anything like that.

[Witchboard]

I understand that....what you're missing though, is, if I'm the professional printer, printing up marquees for a living for instance,  I would consider it beneficial to me to have a site such as AAL up and running.  I get more people interested in creating their own marquees, thus more people needing printing.

Now, if I'm a Kinkos, well, Kinkos blows...there's just no excuse for them, and there's really no benefit that they would gain by doing anything like that.

It's not people like MameMarquees or Kinko's that I'm talking about when I mean "professional printers."  They will do custom work and the like.  I'm talking about people who just specialize in restoration artwork.  Do some searches and you'll come across people who have requested artwork be removed from the AAL in the past.

[whammoed]

Crap! 

[mccoy178]

Thanks man.  I appreciate you doing that for us.

[tetsu96]

I understand that....what you're missing though, is, if I'm the professional printer, printing up marquees for a living for instance,  I would consider it beneficial to me to have a site such as AAL up and running.  I get more people interested in creating their own marquees, thus more people needing printing.

Now, if I'm a Kinkos, well, Kinkos blows...there's just no excuse for them, and there's really no benefit that they would gain by doing anything like that.

It's not people like MameMarquees or Kinko's that I'm talking about when I mean "professional printers."  They will do custom work and the like.  I'm talking about people who just specialize in restoration artwork.  Do some searches and you'll come across people who have requested artwork be removed from the AAL in the past.

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but if the "pros" use archived artwork for their restoration, wouldn't they be in voilation of copyright / DCMA (if digital) as well?  I can't imagine everyone restoring PacMan sideart doing it from memory and by hand.  Something about pots and kettles comes to mind here...

[Comp1demon]

Download the Whole Lock Stock and Barrel..  I would like the FTP info please...

IDEA:
Buy a Offshore server.

Put it all on there.....

Host it for free..

F&*#$K the People and the DCMA..

It's Art... How can ART VIOLATE DCMA..

Already been tested in court.. Draw a $100 Bill perfectly to put on display It not counterfitting it ART.

Take any Copywritten logo and Put it in a Picture to be displayed (ever been to the Met or to any MODERN art Museum) there is tons of VIOLATIONS OF COPYWRITE in Paitings and Pictures, but Since it art they can't do Jack s%^t about it.

This is art too..

For us to look at, print out and display in our own homes and machines.

Also for those of you RESTORING a OLD MACHINE.. it's restoration, you can LEGALY recreate a Copywritten logo or design  to Restore an Original Work of art or Item..  IF you own a Ford model T (or any classic car) and cannot find a Badge or something.. If you create it from scratch, you cannot be arrested or sued for Violating Fords Copywrite.

This is ---smurf-poop---...

Im sure all this art will find a new home and continue to be freely avalble to all of us..

C1D

Need to add one more thing.... Taking down a site like this just makes it harder for people like us.

If you need art for a machine or for Restoration, a Resorce like this being gone will help Other out there looking to make a profit jack their prices up even more since they will HAVE IT ALL ALREADY and make it hard for you to freely obtain it.  This site coming down is gonna make alot of people alot of money.. while its gonna hurt out pockets and perhaps hinder restoration and new machines from being built.

[ppilot]

The United States has become a disgusting place.

[whatzcrackn]

First Lucas claims no more starwars movies and now this  

Anyway you can make a site only for registared-passworded members?  And of course you dont want to be served with papers, understandable but how do people freely sell back-up games online.  

Is there a way to word it so it is a reference library and only the super kool kids can download .  Last I checked, knowledge was free. (let me tell it)

Sort of like a referral thing.  Meaning only by invite do you have access.  How do screen saver web sites stay up, they are taking film shots and I know permission was not given for everyone.

My thoughts are, someone download close to all of your material.  (look at your download log) This person is about to set up an arcade graphic shop and made sure people would have to go to him/them.  

This just does not make since.  Next question I was always told if they had enough on you they tend to not just ask questions and/or go with the treats....they will just charge you.   (But then again you have a life and family so it is not worth dancing on the mine field either.)

Is there a way to put everything thus far on disc?  I for one would be willing to buy it, well of course not the artwork, but rather your time and effort plus the expensive and rare dvd disc it would go on  .  Just food for thought.

Call it a blank dvd disc with a rare label on it!!  But if possible let me know.

[RayB]

Mahuti, you're letting yourself get bullied.

1. DMCA has absolutely no application to art. The D and M in DMCA stands for "Digital Media". Yeah, your files are digital media, but the ORIGINAL copyrighted media was NOT digital. They are not protected by the DMCA, but by standard copyright. The art existed prior to DMCA so poo on that. DMCA was enacted to cover software, and to an extent electronics that contain software.

2. Any notice you received would be related to one company, no? That would mean you would have to take down art owned by that one company, NOT THE ENTIRE ARCHIVE.

3. I'd also question whether the party that contacted you really has rights to the disputed media in the first place. Twobits for example, has the exclusive license to repro and sell art for Pacman, mspac, galaga and a couple others. So if they or Namco contacted you, I'd take down those files, but leave the rest up.

*I am not a lawyer - this is not legal advice - I am not responsible for consequences if this advice is followed * Do your research *

I just get the feeling you got a typical "cease and desist" notice and are now scared, so you want to take it ALL down. Am I right?

[RayB]

PS: It's always cheaper for companies to send out a legal letter ("cease and desist") than it is to actually follow through with law suits. If you comply and remove the specific items that the company is claiming rights to, then you're fine.

Look at all the copyrighted stuff on YouTube, or EBaumsWorld, etc. They take stuff down when requested to, but only if requested to.

I feel it's important to preserve artwork for the sake of restoration of the real physical machines. This archive must not die!

[RayB]

PS PS: I don't suppose the company that contacted you is merely a re-seller of repro and NOS artwork?

[patrickl]

Hey that sux man. Must have been scary to get a letter like that.

[mahuti]

I actually haven't been given the notice yet. I was contacted by an AAL sympathizer at my hosting company to give me the heads up that they had received a DMCA notice. On the same day my hosting company sent out a general notice that they'd been fielding a large number of DMCA notices and were going to cancel the accounts of anyone with copyrighted material in the near future.

I host stuff for clients. I don't really make money off of my hosting for them, it's more of a value added service to get and keep business. I can't afford to have my account bumped, though. Talk about pissed... man, clients get mad when their email is down for 5 minutes.

That being said, I may see what I can do to move everything to another account that I can afford to get bumped.

I'll keep you all posted.

[Patent Doc]

1. DMCA has absolutely no application to art. The D and M in DMCA stands for "Digital Media". Yeah, your files are digital media, but the ORIGINAL copyrighted media was NOT digital. They are not protected by the DMCA, but by standard copyright. The art existed prior to DMCA so poo on that. DMCA was enacted to cover software, and to an extent electronics that contain software.

It's Art... How can ART VIOLATE DCMA..

Already been tested in court.. Draw a $100 Bill perfectly to put on display It not counterfitting it ART.

RayB and Comp1demon- you're right that DMCA probably doesn't apply here.  The problem is that copyright law does.  EVEN if you recreate something, if it is a derivative work then you are still in violation of the copyright.  For example, I take a picture of the Eiffel Tower and unknown to me there is a commercial post card of the Eiffel Tower taken at the same angle with the same lighting, etc.  Since my picture though identical is original to me, there is no problem.  If, however, I take the postcard and use it as a reference to take my own picture at the same angle, lighting, etc then I did violate the copyright.  Here, people were using the original art as a reference to make a near exact copy.  Even if the copy isn't exact the copyright is still violated.  There must be "enough" difference between the original and the new work that the average person (can't remember the actual standard, but we'll say its the average person for arguments sake) can distinguish the difference without being told what the difference is.  Even still there may be problems.

Best advice Manhuti, is do as your doing...take it down.  A C&D is often a precursor to a suit.  Yeah they're trying to scare you, but I wouldn't want to role the dice.

Buy a Offshore server.

Put it all on there.....

Host it for free..

Interesting idea...of course no one would suggest that you evade the law by going where you can't be reached... of course, no one here could stop someone else from doing just taht and we'd probably never notice the difference with respect to download times.  Of course it would have to be a country where there wasn't an enforceable copyright, or at least no worries about potential enforecement.  But then no one here would do something like that.  I would certainly never suggest this was a good idea and should be followed through with.   

[mahuti]

And there are so many countries out there with a lack of copyright that I would trust my credit card to. No thanks.

[SirPeale]

Mahuti -

See if you can get a copy of the original complaint.  In it should be the originator. 

I betcha it's Namco.

[mahuti]

I haven't even received it yet. I was just (unofficially) notified that they received one. For all I know it could have been a very well executed prank. When I got the notice, I first thought it might be a prank. Since I had been expecting something like that for a while, though, i just took it at face value.

Looking back on it... and seeing how I haven't been contacted officially about it, I'm guessing it was a prank, which just happened to coincide with an official and related notice from my hosting provider. It still stands that I could lose my hosting account(s) which would piss off my clients, so I still need to either a. shut it down, b. buy another account that I don't care about losing, c. something else. I'm considering my options.

[RayB]

You shouldn't "lose your account" if you stay in touch with your host and let them know you will cooperate with any complaints. You know... make it clear to them to work with you first and not just yank the rug out from under ya.   It's not like you're hosting modern MP3 music or movie files, which the RIAA and MPAA are actively targetting.

[patrickl]

How much bandwith does the site need?

[JLR2000]

Before you took it I had emailed KC from www.mameworld.net  and he said at that time that he was willing to host the site....

Please let him know, I'm sure they can help.

[MYX]

Wow Mahuti,
I love that site. I have used it as refference a lot. CRAP!
I respect your decision to yank it, but I agree that it should somehow continue.
At present time, how big is the site? Most of the art is vector right?

[sodapopinski]

That certainly sucks, i've used your site for art many times. The thing that burns me is 99% of us use it for personal use and thats it.
Perhaps they can be considered backups of our images on our original machines.

[romperwomb]

localarcade.com is temporarily offline. An announcement regarding its return will be made by March 28, 2006.

 

I was literally seconds away from getting a file I wanted when it went down.  Understand your situation, hope a new host can be found!

[Nannuu]

This makes me wonder how www.brandsoftheworld.com is still online as well.  There are way more copyright problems on that site, and with MUCH bigger names than Namco.  Heck, it's a great resource for some logos and cartoons.  I hope the site can come back up somehow.  I hate to think that we all work on art and have no good way to share it.  Some people don't have the luxury and time to work on such things.  Same as I don't have the time or skill to program for Mame.

[RayB]

There's something called fair use. It especially applies to journalism, educational and other specialized areas.

For example, if a journalist is reviewing a book, or an academic is critiquing a paper, it's next to impossible to do so objectively without quoting from those works, even though those works are copyrighted. So under "fair use" portions of those works can be reproduced without permission or compensation.

Similarly, if a car enthusiast is restoring a classic car and the Ford logo badge is no longer being made, they have limited rights to reproduce it in order for the guy to complete his car restoration.

I think if LocalArcade put up a disclaimer that the art is up for educational and archival purposes, they'd be fine for 95% of the stuff there. I'd still take down anything that was specifically requested to be taken down, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.

NAL, Ray

[arcadegeezer]

Hey mahuti

What a loss to the whole arcade cab restoration community. your site has helped me recreate so many of my memories from my childhood.
I really hope you manage to sort this out.

I really want to say a big thank-you to everyone who has also posted and worked so hard on the creation of so much quality artwork.

I would still like ftp access if that's alright with you.

This site will be such a loss for thousands of people around the world  .

Best of luck !

arcadegeezer - UK

[mahuti]

Re: fair use. It's fair use to copy something for your personal use. Essentially, though, I'm not copying for my personal use, I'm copying for OUR personal uses. Copying the front page of the the Saint Charles Gazette to put on my wall is one thing, but photocopying Harry Potter and posting it online is not.

My feeling with the AAL, is that, from an ethical standpoint, it's a legitimate site, a place that classic artwork is stored away to save it from loss. From a legal standpoing though, I'm sure it's not kosher, but probably not a high priority as long as no one's losing money. As for brandsoftheworld, they're hosted on a russian network. Russia is much looser in its concern for copyright, especially when not dealing with digital entertainment, and based on the amount of ads, the owners of botw may have their own servers.

For my part, trying to get a server in russia and doing an end run around copyright isn't an option because 1. it's probably not legal anyway for me to use a russian server JUST to avoid copyright, 2. Russia still considers something like the AAL to be in violation, they just tacitly ignore it.

As  for hosting it, its not the bandwidth that's a killer, its the processor power. The site is an application, php with a mysql backend, without caching turned on, so it churns through processing time like crazy. That makes it hard to host on shared servers.

Anyway, I'm still considering my options.

[GoPodular.com]

Could it just become a torrent?  People could still ftp files to your site and then the torrent could be updated once a month or something.

 

Of course any files requested for removal would have to be removed.

[zorg]

I hope the site can come back up somehow.  I hate to think that we all work on art and have no good way to share it. 

it's not a complete backup and not with a nice interface as AAL used,  but vectorlib dot free dot fr holds the vector stuff that was available from AAL. (NB it was the starting point for the AAL rebirth, after the first library came outline) I will keep it up as long as possible

if you whish me to add some stuff contact me and I will add it

[Duster72]

Just make it a torrent.  Then, people can grab it as needed and you can do updates if you wish every few months with smaller torrents.  BTW, you should listen to Patent Doc.  He's right.  The site was clearly in violation and you would definitely be putting yourself at risk by not complying with their request.

[Crowquill]

Whether or not the threat was real or can even be justified, I'd do the exact same thing in your position.

Thanks for putting all of the time, effort, and money that you have into the AAL.  It's been an invaluable resource and I'm sure it'll find a new home soon.

[elvis]

RayB and Comp1demon- you're right that DMCA probably doesn't apply here.  The problem is that copyright law does.

Then he should be served notices under copyright law, and not the DMCA.

Thank the stars I live in a country that has thus far had the common sense to reject such stupid and archaic ideas as the DMCA.  Oh, and if I can help by hosting the content in said sensible country, fire a PM my way.

I wonder when common sense will once again prevail, and people will once again remember the actual purpose of copyright, why it was invented, and what it intended to do before it was bastardised into the shitpile it is today?