Hello World -- Monitor Safety Q

[atarikari]

Hello -

My name is Mike, and I am both a noob to these boards as well as constructing a MAME cab in general. Apologies in advance for any breach of etiquite or innane requests for basic info I am bound to commit and request as I bumble through my first project of this sort.

Moving forward, how do I safely navigate around the CRT in back of my cab (Tri-Sports, trackball, 1989) without killing myself? I have found info on a decharging device which is essentially a grounded cable with a screwdriver attached, but my enthusiasm for the project is balanced by my general lack of understanding as to what I'm doing.

Does this work? How do I test that it is safe after having used it (or anything another device)?

Thanks,
Mike

[atarikari]

Or, to ask the question more diplomatically: where can I go to find these answers? This page is very informative, but I'd like to make sure.

Again thanks,

mwgilliard@atari.net

[crashdmj]

Tech and Tips page on this site then lok under monitor and discharging etc. Hope that helps a little. Good luck dont kill yourself.

[atarikari]

Thank you very much for the response.

I can understand that someone would either be bored by or cautious of giving out this type of info, but the Monitor tech section only goes so far, although the links are helpful. I'd just like to hear someone say "this is what works for me; in my opinion this is how long a monitor carries a charge and this is how to be careful," or something to that effect.

Is there a better forum where I could ask these questions?

- Mike

[rampy]

your in the right forum... I don't have experience to share but you can find some more detailed threads in this forum via the search feature.  

The basic jist (YMMV, I am not responsible for your actions, etc) is that you need to respect the monitor.   The tube/crt itself acts like a giant capacitor and can potentially have many thousands of volts stored up (and enough amperage to kill/maim/knock you across the room).

You can take steps to lessen this risk by wearing appropriate clothing, taking necessary care, and discharging the annode (?) rubber cap thingie using the instructions you've been finding... my understanding is that it's always nerve rackign the first time but becomes less so after you get used to doing it.  The procedure is to basically short out that "current"/energy stored in the tube to ground using a tool like the one fashioned out of a screwdriver and grounding clamp thingie...

I'd just do a search for discharge on this board and forum and find a much more specific HOWTO =).  I'd also check out the RGVAC (there's a google groups link for RGVAC at the top of this board somewhere) where you can search for discharge and see how the arcade collectors/pro's do it =P

Rampy

PS It may just be that the usual monitor guru's haven't checked this board in a couple of days or don't feel like re-answering the question... brb w/links

[atarikari]

Beautiful, thanks very much

I plan on using the zillions of resources out there to do this project on my own, but this portion of it I figured it was worth as much effort as possible. Your info was exactly what I was looking for.

Sincerely,
Mike

[rampy]

Beautiful, thanks very much

I plan on using the zillions of resources out there to do this project on my own, but this portion of it I figured it was worth as much effort as possible. Your info was exactly what I was looking for.

Sincerely,
Mike

why does that scare me? =P

here's a thread that may confuse you a bit,but has some general info including some thoughts from the respected andy warne (of i-pac fame)

discharge thread

[atarikari]

 

I take full responsibility for any damage I may do to myself on this. Thanks for the info.

Now to get a jpac (or K72?), some controls, andy's arcade card (?) and get to work. Any preferences?

[rampy]

I take full responsibility for any damage I may do to myself on this. Thanks for the info.

Now to get a jpac (or K72?), some controls, andy's arcade card (?) and get to work. Any preferences?

Most people don't use hagstrom's stuff since it's too expensive... plus Andy Warne has a great reputation with BYOACer's as a vendor/support.

It's hard to recommend without knowing your goals of your project

I'll assume a few things and state some generally accepted conventions.

The J-pac is nice if you have a Jamma compatible cabinet and are using an arcade monitor that came with it and want an easy(ier) way to interface a PC to the JAMMA cabinet.  The nice thing about the jpac is that it won't let you output more than 15khz to the arcade monitor (which is handy) and it slides right in to the Jamma edge connector which makes hook up a breeze.

IMHO I think the Jpac is a GREAT option if you have a Jamma cabinet which already has or is close to the control panel layout that you'd want/need AND/OR you want to preserve the ability to swap in/out real boards and preserve the cabinet's wiring n' stuff (i.e. to revert back from a MAME cabinet to a dedicated game cabinet at a later date)  

since yours is a trackball layout you'll have to do some extra wiring anyways, I'm thinking you don't really need the J-pac...  You could buy an ipac or the new key wiz encoder (I suggest the middle tier one ... I just ordered one but haven't recieved it yet)  wire up your new control panel however you'd like... and get Andy's new VGAarcade card which outputs at 15khz anyways (although you'll need to get some sort of adapter/hack a VGA cable I believe)

Those are just my thoughts and how I think i'd approach it if I were in your shoes... YMMV and others may disagree =P

I have an open frame pc monitor in my cabinet and no experience with arcade monitors 'cept for reading this forum, so keep that in  mind.

Rampy

[atarikari]

Cool, am ordering the encoder, controls and card tonight.
Here is the set up I am starting with:

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=T&game_id=3466

[Trisports (KLOV)]

It worked fine for a few days, now the game craps out after a few min. The monitor is fairly nice, with some bunching on the left side. Here's what I'd like to do. Given what I've been able to glean so far it seems feasible:

-- MAME32 running classic vertical (only?) games through a p233 with 256+ megs of RAM

-- Andy's Arcade Card, Key Wiz-midrange encoder --> 2 Happ super 8-way's w/8-button layout, one 4-way joystick, trackball (I can use the one that came with the cab, right?), etc. buttons

This list will likely get much longer.

- Mike

[rampy]

Cool, am ordering the encoder, controls and card tonight.
Here is the set up I am starting with:

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=T&game_id=3466

[Trisports (KLOV)]

It worked fine for a few days, now the game craps out after a few min. The monitor is fairly nice, with some bunching on the left side. Here's what I'd like to do. Given what I've been able to glean so far it seems feasible:

-- MAME32 running classic vertical (only?) games through a p233 with 256+ megs of RAM

-- Andy's Arcade Card, Key Wiz-midrange encoder --> 2 Happ super 8-way's w/8-button layout, one 4-way joystick, trackball (I can use the one that came with the cab, right?), etc. buttons

This list will likely get much longer.

- Mike

You can use the trackball that comes with it, but you'll need to interface it with your pc either by hacking mouse guts or by buying an opticpac (which comes in handy later if you decide to get a spinner too )  I just did a mouse guts hack for my trackball because I'm on a budget =P  Oscar sells a USB only mouse for 9 bucks that is super easy to wire up to t-balls spinners etc...

Just a silly question, but ... did you intend or want to play horizontal games with that setup ...?  Just wondering, I know you said "classic vertical games" but doing the 8 (!) button 2 stick layout makes me wonder if you'd rather play SFII than galaga...  This is just my opinion, and a true vertical screen person would disagree, but I'd try to re-mount the screen horizontal, so I could play horizontal AND slightly smaller screen vertical games.... but that's really just my opinion... (it helps if you can dedicated a cabinet to vertical and make a separte cabinet for horizontal =P but I don't have that luxurary)

Another random thought is to make one of your sticks a "T" or "J" stick from ultimarc to make it switchable from 8 way to 4 way... Were you going to make all this fit on one panel, or swapable panels?  Since I wanted a trackball 2 sticks/6 buttons, a spinner, and a 4 way I ended up having to branch out from the original control panel's dimensions...

You may want to stick with DOS and possibly either dedicated/faster emus or older versions of MAME like .36 is a supposed sweet spot for older machines...  it'll be more work, but will help you get the most mileage out of your old PC.

Just my thoughts on how i'd approach things/consider approaching things if I were in a simliar position...

Rampy

[atarikari]

Hmmm...food for thought. Now that I can get in there I suppose why not, right? I'll need to make a list of what I'd really like to put into the machine and then make the decision. Is KLOV the best place to start?

I'd want to keep this to one panel. The spinning super model will have to wait for a while. Thanks for the tip on the ultimarc sticks; that, then will be the way I go.

That 8-button layout arose from looking at too many project pages  ...I'll likely be sticking to 4-6 per I guess.

The control panel is currently metal. How do most ppl. proceed on this: drop some particle board in there or dremmel the beast? Come to think of it, what would you recommend as necessary non-standard tools, outside of a dremmel, ratchets, etc, solder kit?

Again, thanks in advance,
Mike

[rampy]

Hmmm...food for thought. Now that I can get in there I suppose why not, right? I'll need to make a list of what I'd really like to put into the machine and then make the decision. Is KLOV the best place to start?

I'd want to keep this to one panel. The spinning super model will have to wait for a while. Thanks for the tip on the ultimarc sticks; that, then will be the way I go.

That 8-button layout arose from looking at too many project pages  ...I'll likely be sticking to 4-6 per I guess.

The control panel is currently metal. How do most ppl. proceed on this: drop some particle board in there or dremmel the beast? Come to think of it, what would you recommend as necessary non-standard tools, outside of a dremmel, ratchets, etc, solder kit?

Again, thanks in advance,
Mike

Well...  hmmm... if you have access to a drill press and can get a good forstners 1 1/8" drill bit or have a metal shop near by you could get a new piece of steel and have em make ya a fresh panel (or attack the existing one)  Not sure if the dremel could cut it (ha!)

I wouldn't recommend particle board... most people use either MDF (medium density fiberboard) or plywood.

Some people take 5/8ths thick MDF/plywood and printout custom artwork and then put 1/8" clear lexan/plexi over the top.

I happen to have used 3/4" plywood cuz it was laying around and will be putting laminate on it.

Everyone swears by a router...  I wish I had a table saw or a circular saw (a 20 dollar jig saw made crappy cuts as did the handsaw) A GOOD drill will make your life easier (as opposed to a crappy one - see a pattern here?  my crappy cheapo rechargeable would drain down after like 4 buttons - no torque)

quick disconnects for button/joy wiring.  A multimeter for troubleshooting or just to have...

REgardless of what you do... make mockup(s) of your panel... cardboard works nice... if it comes out right you can then use it as a template of sorts (or not)... I laid my CP out in Visio using the excellent stencils in the byoac download section and printed out a life size diagram...  *shrug*  I made my prototype in plywood, and never made the "final" CP yet... only after I made it did I realize that I didn't like my curved/ergonomic button layout (shoulda did straight SFII layout)

http://Mame.dk has screen shots and searches based upon types of games... and they are just the games that are in MAME - and you can sort by screen orientation , I think...

Again these are just my thoughts...


good luck,

rampy

[atarikari]

Just wanted to say I've bitten the bullet and ordered all of the above (Andy's Card, 2 J Sticks, 8 buttons and the KeyWiz encoder). Thanks again for your help, and I'll let you know how it turns out.

If only I could find the time to assemble this as easily as the time to buy it all

- Mike

[delta88]

To discharge take a screwdriver with an aligator clip on it and ground the other clip to the chassis and then slide the blade under the  suction cup. if the monitor was powered recently then it will make a pop noise. do this 2 or 3 times and them check for voltage with a DMM or analog meter. which ever is prefered.  

As long as you are not chewing on or playing around with the 2nd anode wire and flyback then you will not get zapped. Along with this take into consideration common sense.....if unsure test for voltage with a DMM.