Car Restoration Questions

[Raleigh]

I inherited a large number of vehicles, mostly older 50's-70's ford trucks, broncos and dodge trucks.  One car is a 1959 Chevy Impala(2-door hard top) that was due to be restored at some point in time, it's been stored in a barn since the 70's waiting to be worked on.  It needs some body work, I would naively give it about a 5 on a scale of 10, and I believe that it needs an engine.  There is a 1976 Monte Carlo that has a bent frame but a good engine that my uncle stated we could drop in it.  I am car ignorant besides changing my oil and other maintenance type things, so my questions are:

1)  Is it possible to use the engine from the Monte Carlo?
2)  How hard is it to do body work restoration?
3)  How hard is it to do interior restoration?
4)  Would a professional restorer cost a fortune?

I don't feel strongly about the car in terms of having it for a car, the only reason I would keep it is for sentimental reasons.  So if it is going to be a major pain in the rear to attempt myself, or if the cost of restoring it is not offset with an increase in value I may just sell it off to someone that would enjoy the project and car.

Thanks in advance for sharing any information or opinions. 

[DrewKaree]

1.  Yes

2.  Depends on how long you want to dedicate to getting it right.  Normally, the answer is "very" for someone with the advanced nature of your experience

3.  See #2.

4.  Depends on the level of resto you want, and what it's worth to you to not do the work and get better results.

You're talking about restoring the Monte Carlo, the Impala, or both?  The Monte Carlo, I'd think it isn't worth that much if you restored it, since it was a fairly common car, IIRC.  The Impala could be worth something, but only to someone who wants that particular car.  Unless it's something super rare or outrageously popular (and somewhat "different", like a Mini Coop or a Willy's or something), I wouldn't think restoring cars is something you'd do to increase value.  I think it's purely a sentimental thing.

You COULD use that Monte Carlo engine in that Impala, if that's what you're referring to.  I wouldn't think it'll be easy with very little skills to just drop it in there though.

Stingray will be by to throw his two cents in sometime soon, I'm sure.  He's gonna have WAY better tips for you.  I heard he has a garage he's carting over to his house for you to store your cars in

[Raleigh]

You're talking about restoring the Monte Carlo, the Impala, or both?  The Monte Carlo, I'd think it isn't worth that much if you restored it, since it was a fairly common car, IIRC.  The Impala could be worth something, but only to someone who wants that particular car.  Unless it's something super rare or outrageously popular (and somewhat "different", like a Mini Coop or a Willy's or something), I wouldn't think restoring cars is something you'd do to increase value.  I think it's purely a sentimental thing.

You COULD use that Monte Carlo engine in that Impala, if that's what you're referring to.  I wouldn't think it'll be easy with very little skills to just drop it in there though.

Definately not the Monte, the only reason it has not been towed down to the junk yard is the possible use of the engine. 

In terms of removing the Monte's engine and dropping it into the Impala, I would definately have help from my uncles who have done such things in the past and are good at those types of things.

[AtomSmasher]

1)  Is it possible to use the engine from the Monte Carlo?

Yes, but probably not easy.  Since the cars are 27 years apart in age, its doubtful they have similar enough engines to just swap them.  It would most likely be more work then just restoring the Impalas engine (or even getting another Impala engine if its gone).

2)  How hard is it to do body work restoration?

Depends on the type and extent of the damage.  Dent repair is usually pretty simple, I'm sure some googling will give you several how to sites.  Small holes or areas you can't get all the dents out can be bondoed over pretty easily too.  Major problem areas would probably be best to just replace that body panel.

3)  How hard is it to do interior restoration?

Once again it depends on the extent of the damage.  Seats can easily be reapolstered, and the floors can be recarpeted.  A slightly messed up dashboard can often be covered with a dashboard cover, but major problems you will probably want to get replacement parts.

4)  Would a professional restorer cost a fortune?

Yes.

Unless the overall damage is minor, it won't be cheap to restore to its former glory.  I'm far from an expert on the subject, I've only restored a '74 Ford truck, but I figure advice from my limited experience is probably better then no advice at all.  I'd look for a classic chevy enthusiast forum for more expert advice.

[AtomSmasher]

Definately not the Monte, the only reason it has not been towed down to the junk yard is the possible use of the engine. 

I know you said it has a broken frame so I could see taking that one to the junk yard, but please don't take any of them with a good frame and decent body to the junk yard, theres already not enough classic cars around.

[Raleigh]

Thanks for the responses.  Atom, let me know if you are in the market for another '74 ford truck, I may have a couple to offer you.   

Here is a picture of the Impala, don't let the overwelming clutter thow you, the car is pretty solid, the only real damage is the left front quarter panel which there is already a replacement panel to take it's place.

I already took the crappy cars(escorts and other pieces of crap) to the junk yard, no intentions to unload the others there, will just sell off cheap to someone that can use them.

[Crazy Cooter]

http://www.impalas.com/departments.asp?dept=12&last=8

I'd keep it.  Fix it just enough to drive and then work from there.  Most of the time you can get them running for under $500.

Check the motor that's in it.  If it's "loose" as in not seized, I'd use that.  It *might* be a 283.  The Monte *probably* has a 305.  The problem with using the "old" engine is that the valve seats in the heads are not set for running unleaded gas.  You'll need to use lead additives (not recommended), get the seats hardened, or swap heads.  The heads from the 305 I *think* fit the 283, but you'll have to check to make sure you have a reasonable compression ratio.  If they can swap, it's much much easier than a full motor swap.

http://www.hotrodhill.com/59__impala_348_engine.htm
One "restored" and for sale.  Prices for restored vehicles are all over the place.  Would I restore it to sell?  No.  I'd get it running with the original motor and sell it.  You'll get a better return on investment that way.

If you find a gearhead, they may take the Monte and the Impala depending on what the Monte has.  It may have a better rearend, tranny, etc.

[AtomSmasher]

Looks like its in pretty good condition, a little minor rust damage, but the fact that it still has all the chrome and hardware it would be a good candidate to restore.  Where are you located?  I doubt it's near me, but if you I'd definately take a look through your junkyard and try to find a new project

[Raleigh]

Looks like its in pretty good condition, a little minor rust damage, but the fact that it still has all the chrome and hardware it would be a good candidate to restore.  Where are you located?  I doubt it's near me, but if you I'd definately take a look through your junkyard and try to find a new project

My junkyard "project vehicle inventory" is in Illinois, I currently reside in Ohio.

[Raleigh]

http://www.impalas.com/departments.asp?dept=12&last=8

I'd keep it.  Fix it just enough to drive and then work from there.  Most of the time you can get them running for under $500.

Cooter, thanks for the links and info, should come in handy.

[nostrebor]

Speaking from 20 years of auto restoration and race car fabrication here...

Are you "obsessive/compulsive" about restoring it or just "in the moment sentimental"? If the former, yes you can learn to do the work. Yes the Engine can be made to fit. (if it is a small V8 in the Impala, it will be quite a simple swap) Yes you can get it back in shape. If the latter... I would turn it loose and put your new-found resources into something that you are OC about.

The real question is what do you have in time and dollar resources to invest. Car restoration, done correctly, can run into the multiples of thousands of dollars. I have invested ten of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into a single resto, only to later sell said wet dream at half of what I had invested. Car resto is fickle, the guys involved are "cliquey" and no matter how good your car is, there will always be someone with a nicer one to show off. I didn't drop out of the car-build scene loving the experience. I was tired of the costs.

Bottom line. If you love the car, have the $$ and the time, and want it, do it. My best advice if you do is to take it like eating an elephant. You've got to take it one bite at a time.

My .02 cents

[DrewKaree]

take it like eating an elephant.

Bones is starting to look A LOT more normal!     

[ChadTower]

The car resto scene sounds EXACTLY like the pinball collector/resto scene, FWIW.  The costs involved, the hours involved, the cliques, there always being someone with a ridiculous collection or amount to drop on any machine at any time...

[Crazy Cooter]

Exactly the same.  That's why it's best to just get it to work and then decide if you want to keep it or not  .

[Stingray]

1)  Is it possible to use the engine from the Monte Carlo?

Yes. Swapping a Chevy V8 is one of the easier engine swaps you'll find. Some of the accessories may not work and will have to be replaced, but it's still a very easy swap.

2)  How hard is it to do body work restoration?

Extremely. Don't let anybody lie to you on this. I've restored several cars. It's hard work, and you could have bought the same car for less money by the time you finish. The only reason to do it is just because you love it, or you have a sentimental attachment to the car in question.

3)  How hard is it to do interior restoration?

This question is too loaded to even try to answer it, but what the hell, I'll try to answer it anyway. Any idiot can install a new pre-cut carpet set or pre-made seat cover. Making these things from scratch is significantly harder (but also significantly cheaper).

4)  Would a professional restorer cost a fortune?

Yes. We're talking about a restoration now, not a cheap "sand it & shoot it" paint job.

That Impalla will bring some serious coin in restored condition. Judging from the not great picture, it looks like a candidate for a real restoration.

-S

[TheCaptain]

TURN IT INTO A CAB.

[ChadTower]

A TAXI CAB.

[Raleigh]

Thanks all for taking the time to answer my questions.  I guess my biggest problem is the time factor, I have none and don't forsee having any real "spare" time for projects of any magnitude for a few years.  The only reason I started pondering this is due to the man (the county) coming down on me about getting some things in line on the property I own in Illinois so I am trying to figure out what to keep and what to liquidate.  My only decision for now on the car would be whether to keep it for a possible future resoration or sell it off with most of the other things.  Since I have the space and don't need the money I think I am leaning towards keeping it and improving the storing conditions as I clean up around it.  I will take better pictures of it when I get it freed up from all of it's surroundings.  So this leads me to these questions:

1.  When I said it needs an engine, I mean I believe but am not 100% sure that there is no engine in it currently.  So would it make most sense to either try and at least get the Monte's engine dropped in it this summer or if I can't get around to it keeping the Monte around for now?  I mean if I end up trying to do a good resoration should I look for a better engine or would this one be relatively as good as another?  I know this one is 100% good in terms of function, but I don't want to put in an engine that later someone will look under the hood and look at me like I am some dumb --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.

2.  This is not verified, but according to my uncle the VIN number on the car and the VIN number on the title are 1 digit off, I believe there is some story there about the guy that my dad bought it from had a couple and he ended up with the wrong title and didn't notice it for years later since it was just stored.  Is it going to be a pain to deal with once I decide to sell or do something with it?  My uncle said something about a classic car title, blah blah blah and since it hasn't been registered since the 60's or something that it wasn't going to be a difficult process but I wouldn't be surprised if he is full of it.

Thanks again.

[danny_galaga]

what drew said! i would add that really to get a really nice looking car you will either have to pay a fortune (more than the cost of a new car) to get someone to do it OR do what a lot of restorers do- start learning about it. will no doubt take a long time but most stuff you can do yourself so long as you get the right info. one of the few things you wont be able to do properly (because of expensive equipment and special skills) is the paint job and the head liner/ upholstery. to get a really good paint job costs thousands...

[clok]

Everybody has some good advice, as an old car lover (and a person who has restored a couple of cars, and have alot more to restore) here is mine:

59 chevy is worth it,  take a look here http://www.manheimgold.com/ for a rough Idea ( don't think you have a gold mine after reading that).


the Engine swap will be pretty simple, it will require some motor mount adapters which are relatively cheap (older Chevy small blocks mounted father back on the engine then the newer ones). Also if it has a late model automatic tranny, that would be worth swapping also. Somebody mentioned the fact that older engines wont last long on the fuel we use today (do to lack of lead  content). Depending on budget and such the motor form the monty should be an Ok choice, ok milage and should last .

bodywork, simple to do , hard to do correctly. It is hard work, but the finished product and the fact that "you" did it can make it all worth while. Bodywork can be the cheapest part f the restoration if you do it yourself (again cheap is probably not the correct term as sandpaper, tools, and time all do add up). Its what I went to school for, I love to do it, so it doesn't seem like work to me, but I know others would (and did) say it was hard work, it is. But it can be fun too if you enjoy making something out of nothing. The biggest things to look at is quite simply RUST, not in the visible spots, but in spots you don't look for, under the carpet, int he seems of the trunk, jack it up and look behind the door sills, lower part of the fenders (behind and in front of the wheels). Is the chrome all there? Most stainless chrome (all the side chrome on those cars) can be shined up with a kit you can buy and use on a bench grinder, again it will take time (and I would recommend some junk practice pieces) but the cost wont overwhelm you if you do it yourself.

Interior: This may be the easiest or toughest, depending on your budget. Another thing that is really easy to do, hard to do correctly. I liked the little time we where taught upholstery in school (its required to take a general in it when you do Auto Body) that I went to school for it also and did it for 10 years as my only job. Doing this yourself isn't easy as it requires a heavy duty machine (not your moms or wives).. some home machines can do the work required, they just wont stick close enough for most jobs. Most interior stuff is available to purchase, but a complete interior could cost easily $2000+ for all of it.


After all that, you think you have something... well you really don't.. You will most likely need to rebuild the suspension, and if you really want to DRIVE the car, I would re comend late model brakes (again, not horrible as there are kits and such to make it fairly easy). Rebuilding the undercarriage is another problem as it takes a few special tools. the parts are fairly cheap, but this is something I would not suggest to the backyard guy.

then there is stuff like Fuel lines and gas tank (probably just fine but if its been sitting?), brake lines (the steel lines are probably OK, but the rubber (one on each wheel) will need replacing), electrical wiring, have mice been in the car? How do the windows and door locks work? The heater system, are any of the controls broke?... most of this last stuff is frailly easy to fix, but it all adds up.

its a project i would recomend anybody with the ambition to try, but dont think its a quick thing, and if you honestly dont have the time, it wont retore itslef.

here is a link to some of my projects, a few finished ones and alot to be finished.
http://clok1966.tripod.com/id3.html


All i have to say is  59 2door chevy, nice car, wish I had one.

Clok

[Stingray]

1.  When I said it needs an engine, I mean I believe but am not 100% sure that there is no engine in it currently.  So would it make most sense to either try and at least get the Monte's engine dropped in it this summer or if I can't get around to it keeping the Monte around for now?  I mean if I end up trying to do a good resoration should I look for a better engine or would this one be relatively as good as another?  I know this one is 100% good in terms of function, but I don't want to put in an engine that later someone will look under the hood and look at me like I am some dumb --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.

You'll want to have it rebuilt either way. One is as good as the next if you're having it rebuilt anyway, provided there are no cracks. While you have it apart, you'll probably want to go ahead and have new valve guide seals put in the head, go ahead and ask them if the heads you have will do okay on unleaded, if not, they can install hardened valve sleeves and it wiil be good to go.

-S

[dirt]

hey raleigh would you happen to have a 49-54 studebaker truck? i need some small parts for one. that 59 is f'n cool. i almost bought one about 10 years ago, i wish i had now. i think you should get it running and drive it around to make sure you want to keep it before throwing a bunch of money at it. trust me i have been building 50's customs since the 80's. if your not into it, it is a waste of time. if you are into it, it will become a great passion and be worth every penny and minute spent.


dirt

[Raleigh]

Thanks for all the imput guys, much appreciated.

dirt - sorry, can't help you with the studebaker.

[Raleigh]

I stopped by today and looked more at the car.  The body is in very good condition.  The only serious body damage is to the driver side front quarter panel that is peeled back, but there is already one to replace it that looks like new(it isn't but it is in perfect condition).  Other than that there is a minor dent in the passenger door, the front windshield has a crack and the passengers little vent window is busted out.  There is very little rust on the car, small surface rust here and there(I would guess less than 5% coverage) and nothing that is rusted through with holes or anything.  Everything else appears to be complete and present besides a few letters of "Impala" that is on the side crome.  There is no engine like I had thought.  I am really starting to dig the car.  My camera was acting up when I tried to take some pics but I will take some good ones when I pull it out later this spring or in the summer.

Thanks again for all the info thus far, hopefully I don't get in over my head in the process.  As long as the cost doesn't hit into or much into the 5 digits I won't lose much sleep over it.

[Stingray]

There is very little rust on the car, small surface rust here and there(I would guess less than 5% coverage) and nothing that is rusted through with holes or anything.

Rust is like icebergs. Often what looks like nothing on the surface will take down the entire ship. Hopefully this is not the case, but just letting you know that there may be more there than you can see without taking the car apart.

-S