SawStop - stops cutting in 5ms if your finger is in the way! Anyone use this?

[javeryh]

This could save a lot of fingers...

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/4532/Table_Saw_that_Stops_in_five_ms

[Teebor]

So simple and yet totally practical.  Damned good idea.

Only problem is it can only be used with non-conductive materials, no metals then

I liked this quote from the FAQ's

7. Can I get a serious injury on a SawStop saw?

Yes. If you come into contact with the spinning blade, the brake system will stop the blade in 3 to 5 milliseconds (thousandths of a second). In the vast majority of cases, this will result in only a minor cut. For example, if your hand is moving toward the blade at 1 foot-per-second, the depth of the cut would be approximately 1/16th of an inch or less. However, if your hand is slapped into the blade at a very high speed, you will likely receive a serious injury.

[mahuti]

For close to $3000 I can just have my finger sown back on... or pay somebody else to make all of my cuts.

[MikeQ]

For close to $3000 I can just have my finger sown back on... or pay somebody else to make all of my cuts.

Try $25,000 and they didn't sew them back on.  I just have stubs.

[mahuti]

Ouch. Stick to programming.

I guess I'll revise that to;

for close to $3000 I can just pay somebody else to make all my cuts.

[Doc Thirst]

The inventor was on NPR several months ago.  What I really found interesting was that this was pitched to the big 3 saw makers.  All 3 said that they didn't believe the extra cost to add the device would be worth it to the end users.  Finally the guy opted to start his own saw manufacturer.  I'm sure you can find the interview on npr.org if anyone is really interested.

[MikeQ]

Manufacturers don't want to assume the liability.  If the device fails or someone still figures out a way to hurt themselves with the device enabled, guess who gets sued?

[kelemvor]

I've seen these things before.  Been around for a few years now.

Notice on the video they don't actualyl show you what the hot dog looks like where the saw touched it.  And if it works so well, why don't they demonstrate it with their own finger.  heh heh.

[ErikRuud]

Watch the other video, not the close up, it shows the nick in the skin.

At high speed it looks kind of strange because you cant see the blade drop, it just appears to vanish.

I originally read about this a few years ago, and I believe there was a photo that showed a live finger test.

[ErikRuud]

I haven't found the photo yet, but I did find ythis:
http://www.physicscentral.com/people/people-01-10.html

[kelemvor]

Watch the other video, not the close up, it shows the nick in the skin.

At high speed it looks kind of strange becuase you cant see the blade drop, it just appears to vaish.

I originally read about this a few years ago, and I believe there was a photo that showed a live finger test.

I wonder how many times it can do that before something inside breaks.  that sure flies down fast and stops the blade fast...

[mahuti]

What if you are cutting round wood dowels???

Useless?

[jjd]

Watch the other video, not the close up, it shows the nick in the skin.

At high speed it looks kind of strange becuase you cant see the blade drop, it just appears to vaish.

I originally read about this a few years ago, and I believe there was a photo that showed a live finger test.

I wonder how many times it can do that before something inside breaks.  that sure flies down fast and stops the blade fast...

Per the site:   The brake mechanism and saw blade need to be changed after each 'use'.

[pointdablame]

What if you are cutting round wood dowels???

Useless?

It's not the roundness that triggers it... its the conductivity found in human skin.  That's why you can't cut metal or conductive materials with it unless you disable the safety mechanism.

[javeryh]

What if you are cutting round wood dowels???

Useless?

Nope.  http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm

The SawStop safety system includes an electronic detection system that detects when a person contacts the blade. The system induces an electrical signal onto the blade and then monitors that signal for changes. The human body has a relatively large inherent electrical capacitance and conductivity which cause the signal to drop when a person contacts the blade. Wood has a relatively small inherent capacitance and conductivity and does not cause the signal to drop.

[Kremmit]

Jeez, next this guy will be selling some kind of harness to tie you to your car seat in the event of a crash.  Madness!

[mahuti]

Yeah, or some kind of device that protects you in case of a car crash that is only good for one use.

[Necro]

Want to know something seriously messed up (and in reference to above):
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20050701/disruptor-gass.html

Why they aren't making more of them/everyone's using it. 

It's a lawsuit reason, but a WEIRD reason that only evil...evil lawyers would think up . hehe.

[XtraSmiley]

Actually, having seen this in person, and worked with people who have cut their fingers off, here is my reason why it's worthless.

People who cut their fingers off, don't do it slow, they get caught on the wood and pulled into the blade fast.  This doesn't work if it's fast.  Not that many people slowly cut their finger off.

See the problem?

[DrewKaree]

The inventor was on NPR several months ago.  What I really found interesting was that this was pitched to the big 3 saw makers.  All 3 said that they didn't believe the extra cost to add the device would be worth it to the end users.  Finally the guy opted to start his own saw manufacturer.  I'm sure you can find the interview on npr.org if anyone is really interested.

They did testing on this.  The amount they used in their survey that they figured they'd have to add to the cost of the saw took the amount of people who'd buy a saw with this feature down to about 3%. 

It'd have to be an industry-wide mandate for the actual cost to drop.  Like seatbelts were forced on the public, this thing will have to have the same push behind it. 

[ArcaMan]

I feel sorry for the guy they tested it on:

(from the site):

"This drawing [chart] shows the changes in the electrical signal when a finger touched the teeth of a spinning saw blade during an actual test."


I don't care if it is only 1/16" of an inch, no way I am volunteering to be a test slicer for that machine!

[Necro]

Actually, having seen this in person, and worked with people who have cut their fingers off, here is my reason why it's worthless.

People who cut their fingers off, don't do it slow, they get caught on the wood and pulled into the blade fast.  This doesn't work if it's fast.  Not that many people slowly cut their finger off.

See the problem?

Read the article on how the thing works.  It stops fast.  I mean really...REALLY fast. That's how it was designed.  I think as said above, about 1/16th of an inch is how far it will go into a finger.

1/16th of an inch vs. entire finger....

I'm going to go with the 1/16th of an inch.

[XtraSmiley]

Well it's fast, but not super fast.  They way I saw it, the actually threw the hot dog into it (as well as pushed it in) and the thrown one was pretty cut, but hey, you're right, it's better than losing the finger, I guess!

[Flinkly]

GO BEAVERS!!


not like i support the device, but he is alumni, i've got to support him.  i'm also a woodworker and have chopped into my pinky with a bandsaw.  i think that human reflexes are fast enough, which is why i only cut into my finger a little bit.  i think it took 3 stitches and it's impossible to tell that i'm an idiot.

now if you combined human reflexes with a saw that stops, i guess you would always come out better, but to me, it's more cost effective to pay attention than to pay for this.  and to think of it, my family has never had a table saw with one of those safety guards around the blade.  heh, and we always took it off during class in middle school too.

i will have to note that my brother did stick the ends of his middle three fingers into a table saw blade (when he was about 21), but he was being very stupid.  and like my finger, his are perfectly fine now.

SUMMARY:  if it cost less, than sure, but at the moment, paying attention works and it's free

[ShinAce]

5ms is MUCH faster than anyone's reaction time...about 40x faster.

At the end of 5ms, the blade isn't spinning. When you react, it's always spinning just as fast.

[Necro]

Look at the healthcare money saves with the device though...should be enough reason to mandate their inclusion .

That would make sense though

[DrewKaree]

I feel sorry for the guy they tested it on:

The guy who invented the thing tested it on himself.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Look at the healthcare money saves with the device though...should be enough reason to mandate their inclusion .

That would make sense though

I'm afraid it doesn't in the real world.... It might seem to, but the fact is that in relation to the number of power saws in use the actual numbers of accidents from them is effectively a very very nominal number.

On a pure risk assesment insurance basis, it's pretty much a non starter. If the price of fitting it could match or only just outstrip the cost of a saw then there might be a case, but at $3000 for this, the numbers just don't add up.

What is it that you're proposing at the end of the day.... Legislate to force the protection of a terminally stupid and very small minority? 

While genuine accidents do happen, the majority of injuries are caused by people not doing the job the right way in the first place. That, you can't legislate for, because someone who doesn't take the right precautions will always find a way to injure themselves and others.

It's a great idea, which works, and if it was affordable I'd buy it straight away, but the price kills it when you can buy a small table saw for $100.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Avery]

Remember that this is a cabinet saw, not a contractors saw, much less the $100 special.  Comparing the two is like comparing a Ford Escort with something with a name that sounds like an impotence drug that's made by hand in the Italian Alps by elves.

It's about $1000 more than what a Jet or Delta cabinet saw runs, but, well, after my shaper bit me I plunked down $500 for a power feeder.  I doubt he'll get rich, but I think he could sell a couple of them.

[mpm32]

$100 for a table saw?  Any table saw that you can get for that would be nothing more than a cheap circular saw mounted upside down in a tinfoil table.

Please provide links to such a saw.  I clearly have been paying too much for my tools.

[MikeDeuce]

I don't think he implied any quality with the $100 saws... For quality you want the 10" companion TS at sears for $89.99

[Kremmit]

Computers, mobile phones, pagers, microwaves, PDAs, cars, fax machines, internet connections, dictaphones, pocket calculators.

All really neat products that were so expensive, nobody would buy them.

[boykster]

Computers, mobile phones, pagers, microwaves, PDAs, cars, fax machines, internet connections, dictaphones, pocket calculators.

All really neat products that were so expensive, nobody would buy them.

Absolutely true on all accounts...

HOWEVER...

Like someone has stated previously, this technology works great when someone is cutting something slow and steady and in a straight line, etc...basically using the tool as it was designed to be used.  Eh...last time I injured myself with a tool...I was NOT using the tool as it was designed for...(circular saw above head while on a single plank scaffold?)

[leapinlew]

This is the kind of product you want AFTER the incident. It falls in the same category as prenuptial agreements and birth control....

[Kremmit]

...last time I injured myself with a tool...I was NOT using the tool as it was designed for...(circular saw above head while on a single plank scaffold?)

Clearly, you are a wise man who knows what he is talking about.

[boykster]

...last time I injured myself with a tool...I was NOT using the tool as it was designed for...(circular saw above head while on a single plank scaffold?)

Clearly, you are a wise man who knows what he is talking about.

When you spend a summer building decks...you find yourself using tools in "creative" ways...trust me.

[ChadTower]

No product can save you from using it incorrectly.  Asking that is unreasonable.

[DrewKaree]

No product can save you from using it incorrectly.  Asking that is unreasonable.

I have a formerly corded saw that is now cordless that I can't use incorrectly.

Problem solved

[Gambit]

Why does everyone keep saying this costs $3000?

An entire table saw with this device runs for $700. A high end table saw with this device runs for $2500.

[Dreamwriter]

And also realize that those are the prices of a very small company with a total of 8 employees.  The deal that the big tool companies claimed was too expensive was 3% of the wholesale cost of the tools that included the feature, going up to 8% if the majority of the industry adopted it.  So, they raise the price by about 8% - meaning that $400 tablesaw would cost you $432.  Or that $1000 would cost you $1080.  I don't think anyone would find that too expensive for the extra safety.

Edit:
Wow, this was an old thread resurrected from the grave...