I'm never going to get a job...

[ChadTower]

Tell that crap to the people who expect you to pay back your student loans.

Tell that to your kids when they grow up in a tiny little two bedroom apartment in crack central.  Really.  They'll feel much better about their life knowing that daddy loves his job more than he loves them.

[danny_galaga]

Tell that crap to the people who expect you to pay back your student loans.

Tell that to your kids when they grow up in a tiny little two bedroom apartment in crack central.  Really.  They'll feel much better about their life knowing that daddy loves his job more than he loves them.

what a crock...

[danny_galaga]

Education should be its own reward.

Learn to focus on the journey instead of the destination.

Tell that crap to the people who expect you to pay back your student loans.

Try to picture this:  A "journey" that is open to more possibilities due to the financial reward brought about by that education

clever americans who dont want a huge student loan come to australia to study. its cheaper to get board here, go to a top uni and then go back home than to study in the US...

[Grasshopper]

You guys crack me up. You live in such a simplistic black and white world. Anyone would think that academics are paupers. I mean c'mon. No one with a PhD is likely to end up in "crack central".

Tell that crap to the people who expect you to pay back your student loans.

Tell that to your kids when they grow up in a tiny little two bedroom apartment in crack central.  Really.  They'll feel much better about their life knowing that daddy loves his job more than he loves them.

Everything in life is a question of balance. Yes of course you cannot ignore money altogether. But you'll not be doing your kids any favours if you work such long hours that you never get to see them, or you keel over from a heart attack at 50 though overwork, or you come home stressed from work and take it out on them.

[danny_galaga]

I did see a manager position open at the local McDonalds though...I think I'm qualified for that.

interestingly, the current CEO of mcdonalds (american headquarters) is australian. where did he start? makin burgers! who is to say he didnt have a degree? im sure even chad would agree with me that being smart (not necessarily have a degree though) AND working hard will get you somewhere. the only reason you are going to be in 'crack central' is cos youre a bum...

[ChadTower]

He says this like he's the only one who has an education.  I spent years at two top universities studying Computer Science.  I know exactly what he's talking about.  Unforuntately, his haughty "I deserve affirmation and reward" and "I know more than you" attitude are very, very common in people who have spent their lives in Academia without stepping into the real world.

As you can see, you did well in Academia, but that does not yet entitle you to much in the real world.  If you don't like how the real world works I suggest you take up a teaching position like the one mentioned and go back.

You can argue all you want but the fact remains that you are the one who started a thread about the fact that the real world is not jumping at the chance to employ you.

[Necro]

Ok, my first foray into EE and I should have expected things to degenerate.

People are reading too far into my rant.

For the PhD question, 4-6 years is fairly common in Biosciences for getting a PhD without getting a masters ahead of time and starting a new project.  Under 4 years is really, REALLY hard without prior work that you've done that can be thrown into it.  I went onto grad school straight out of undergrad after doing internships over the summer because multiple higher ups at companies I met at a conference told me I would need it later on, so it would be better to get it now, when I wouldn't need to support a wife/family.  So I did...in Biotech it will end up that I can hit a ceiling I can't go past without a PhD.  It will occur when I'm most likely 50-55, but it's past when I can reasonably get a PhD.  So as for biosciences, PhD's are actually pretty important for doing anytype of research job/etc.  I'm aware this isn't true for other fields, especially humanities, but for my particular field it's very important to get where I want to be in 20-30 years.  Phew, anyway.

I'm not expecting someone to 'give me' a great job, great pay, etc.  I want a job that wouldn't relegate me to washing glassware, etc.  Essentially, I have the technical skills many jobs are calling for, but lack 'pharmaceutical experience' in using those skills.  As I said, I had a f-ed up PhD so I got to run a project, etc., so I was hoping that that experience would give me a leg up.

That being said, as someone mentioned I AM working in one of the labs I worked in during my PhD work currently.  However I don't want to stay there and would like a biopharma job.  The basic thing is getting into an office and getting someone to hire me for these positions which I'm kind of shooting at in the dark because I can't tell what I'm over/under/perfectly qualified for.  There seems to be things I'm way overqualified for, or things I'm way underqualified for...so it's making it hard.

When I wrote that email, it was after searching for 2 hours for positions to apply to and finding one.  The next day I located 15 and ended up applying for over 25 positions last week.  Some higher, some lower, so hopefully something will turn up.

Anyway, thanks for those that were helpful, those that just wanted to be mean and stuff...no reason to even reply .  Dont really care about people that need to be mean/etc. online.  Being frank and not an ass about it works wonders, and I understand what people have said and am taking it into account in my search.

So...thanks all, appreciate it.  I won't rant again...I learned my lesson ...I'll stick to the arcade stuff.

[ChadTower]

What lesson?  That going where people disagree with you is a bad idea?  Discussion is about variety of viewpoint.  If you do not like that, yes, coming here was a bad idea.  This has been a pretty good thread, IMO.

[Necro]

Discussion and variety are great, attacking someone personally on the other hand is never helpful and just makes whatever point a person was making be completely lost.

And, as I said, a lot of the advice was helpful.

[ChadTower]

Wow, I bet that was a hella party.   

[jbox]

how much was he paid? who cares? he did his degree because he loves physics. so then he was being paid to do what he loved. whatever it was

Hippy.

[danny_galaga]

how much was he paid? who cares? he did his degree because he loves physics. so then he was being paid to do what he loved. whatever it was

Hippy.

in my time i have been called a number of things...

[farmecologist]

Frankly, most employers in the bio sciences DO require extensive post-doc experience.    That's just the way it is.   My wife went through a long PHD program in pharmacology ( hence the user name..long story ), did multiple post-docs and THEN decided she didn't like lab work.   Ha!

It all worked out ok though.   She ended up getting a job doing intellectual property / patent  investigation and is MUCH happier now.   The thing is, she would NOT have gotten the job without her PHD.   

The point here is that there are employers looking for PHDs in areas other than your degree.    Unfortunately, I think the post-doc experience is probably still necessary.   It almost seems like a 'paying your dues' type of thing.

 

[mahuti]

We americans have to worry about the "money is everything" because we work in the country with the fewest national holidays, least amount of vacation and one of longest work weeks in western civilsation. If you don't get a high-paid job, it's usually a low-paid, long-hour, bad benefits job. Even without the money... a high-paid job provides more freedom in many cases.

And realistically... not everyone can do the job they love. Somebody has to work in sanitation.

That being said, we Americans do have plenty of our priorities out of whack, but we're not the only one.

[fredster]

Money isn't everything.

Drinking and trolling late night for loose women is everything.

Isn't it?

[Necro]

After my last post, I swore I wouldn't read this thread again because I take things personally too easy then get all pissed or whatever and say something stupid. 

However, after today I wanted to come back and post again.  Farm and pinball - dead on.  No one...NO ONE told me this.  People always said 'Oh yeah, industry you can get a job without a post doc.  It's not like academia'.  They were academics. :/

Should have known .

Well, this being said, I've read a few things and am going to start cold calling/emailing people for informational interviews tomorrow and try to get some more info on the best course of action for me, and how to find an biotech industry postdoc.  If anyone knows a good way to get one, lemme know.  

The sad thing is I'm resigned to the fact of the money...I can deal with it.  Hopefully some day ti will pay off, but I can deal.  I want to get into management/project oversight anyway, so this is all towards that someday.

Pinballjim, uh, can I come to the next party?  I wont ask for a job...I'll 'informational get smashed'.    (Plan on trying to try to set up some of those tomorrow).

What makes things great is the Prof. Im working for now knows people (at least 2) at places I applied to.  He didnt know why I was like 'Oh...my god...why didnt you tell me earlier when I asked if you knew anyone in biotech?'

Again, thanks all...Keeping on a happy face, realizing getting a PhD was...more then I expected .  Didn't realize it was at least a decade (phd+postdoc(s)) commitment. 

Time for another rum and coke to dull the realization.

[ChadTower]

You'll find once you get into the field, any field really, that project managers are not the skilled, educated workers.  They are 45 year old MBAs with well groomed hair.

That's all it takes to move way up the ladder with velocity.  An MBA and well groomed hair. 

[Necro]

...and $200,000 paychecks.  

Honestly, I'm think part of the reason I'm freaking out is getting a job fast would have lessened me actually thinking about what I want to do.  As it is now, I don't KNOW if I want to do research forever, run my own lab, etc.

I like the overarcing idea of being a Chief Science Officer...overseeing all projects, not having a specific specialty but getting involved in everything a bit, having people inform you about different aspects of tons of things, consulting where you can, etc. but I know there's no way for me to do that now...it's frustrating not know how to get there, if there's even a way to do that. 

Ah well...guess I better make sure I get keep some hair .

(Grad School = few year delay in figuring out what to do with your life.)

[RayB]

I like the overarcing idea of being a Chief Science Officer...overseeing all projects, not having a specific specialty but getting involved in everything a bit, having people inform you about different aspects of tons of things, consulting where you can, etc. but I know there's no way for me to do that now...it's frustrating not know how to get there, if there's even a way to do that. 

You can do it, but you have to start somewhere low and work your way up. How old are you? That kind of position goes to really seasoned people. Unless you're already in your 40's, what are you worried about? Plenty of time to gain the experience and work up the ladder.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, I see that too.  He seems to be thinking about positions that are 15 years off.

[farmecologist]

Necro,

Any chance you could stay put for a while longer and do a post-doc?  You might get more opportunities in the furure that way. 

[RayB]

I like the overarcing idea of being a Chief Science Officer...overseeing all projects, not having a specific specialty but getting involved in everything a bit, having people inform you about different aspects of tons of things, consulting where you can, etc. but I know there's no way for me to do that now...it's frustrating not know how to get there, if there's even a way to do that. 

You can do it, but you have to start somewhere low and work your way up. How old are you? That kind of position goes to really seasoned people. Unless you're already in your 40's, what are you worried about? Plenty of time to gain the experience and work up the ladder.

You know what, I'd like to ammend my opinion here. Truth is you COULD bullshoot your way into a top job like that.  But everyone below you will grow to hate you. 

[Necro]

Farmecologis, I'm thinking of post-docs and now I'm scared I'm going to pick the 'wrong one'.  But I am looking.  I need to move into more human centric stuff from what I was doing in flies (developed a model system for studying innate immune responses in flies, novel work and first one to show a viral response in flies.  Kind of cool...)  So I want to get more adaptive immune response experience and direct human research experience as well instead of model systems. 

Basically, I'm having sleepless nights, etc., worrying about not being able to have a career in 10-20 years.  I'm 28 now...so, not 'young' but not insanely old for a PhD.  On the youngish edge...I just see all these people that graduated 5 years ago with their BS's that are established and it scared the bejusus out of me because now I'm 'over qualified' for their positions, but can't get a PhD level position because I'm underqualified (this was what people told me over at a big science careers website forum - basically, they won't hire PhD's for BS/MS jobs because of prior experience where most PhDs get very bored in the jobs and quit because they can't 'lead' anything at all.  That and if you do get one, your going down a path where you can't become a 'big researcher' later on...double edged sword. :/

That was basically what induced my original post...


...so...when DO you figure out what you want to do when you grow up?

[danny_galaga]

...so...when DO you figure out what you want to do when you grow up?

about 50. several middle aged people have told me that. don't panic. there are many really good jobs out there where they look for highly educated people but not necessarily related to that field. the brother of an ex of mine did a degree in engineering or something and now is the director on the board of a company that is into IT. there's no way he would have known that was how things would pan out. I myself have no degrees and less options than you. but i'm quite positive about the future and i know i will find something i like (eventually).

[rugby1]

I'm just waiting for all the damn baby boomers to retire in the next few years.... there will be plenty of job opp's and good salaries to go with them

28 is pretty young ... and you have knocked out your PHD already......   Ever think of becoming a contractor and going to Iraq?  They are always looking for people to help rebuild everything over there and you can easily walk out with 125K+ in your pocket after a year....  gotta watch out and not get blown up though.   

[DrewKaree]

Is this horse dead yet?

[Necro]

No, it's one HELL of a horse.

I think I saw it in a video with some queen or something.


And Iraq, who would have thought hehe.

[DrewKaree]

I gotcher horse.

[DrewKaree]

THE HORSE!   OHHHHHH!   IT JUST KEEPS BOUNCING EVERY TIME THEY STRIKE IT!  OH THE HUMANITY!

[missioncontrol]

can this thread just die allready?

[Goz]

can this thread just die allready?

Doesn't look like it....

[jbox]

OH THE HUMANITY!

[Necro]

THE HORSE IS BACK!!!

Well, not really.  I gots me a jobey job. 

So it all worked out in the end.

*beats on that horse some more*  It's not dead yet!

[ChadTower]

What's the job?

[PCtech]

THE HORSE IS BACK!!!

Well, not really.  I gots me a jobey job. 

So it all worked out in the end.

*beats on that horse some more*  It's not dead yet!

Well, welcome back to the world of the Zombies Working Class

[missioncontrol]

What's the job?

5 words


"may I take your order"


and


"Would you like it super-sized"

well is super-sized one word or two? it's got a hyphen so I'm thinking it's two words formed to make one word...

ba,h well anyway... One Big Mac, fries and a large coke.... to go.............


congrates... I'm sure you'll make Ronald proud

[ChadTower]

BTW, MC dun like them college boys.

[Havok]

What's the job?

Male Gigolo...

 

[ChadTower]

My man will stick he d1ck in a he-monkey.

[missioncontrol]

has a job too