We've gone Conservative!

[Zakk]

Ever wake up one morning and wonder "what did I do last night?"

Well I voted Conservative.  So did a fair bit of the rest of the country. My reason?  The Liberal government has made it clear that they want to disarm the country.  Well the law-abiding part anyway.  They propose that they will force people to sell their guns to them, no choice.  Now I give you US brothers hassles sometimes about your over-zealous gun thinking ("even baby has a gun, hyuck!"), however taking guns out of every person's hands (that has gone through the courses and training to legally own a gun), but leave them in the hands of punks on the street is crazy.  I don't even own a gun, but I voted Conservative and signed up for a course that allows me to own long guns, and another one that allows me restricted weapons (semi autos and pistols).  I even visited the shooting range and found out about teaching the children how to respect and fire a weapon.  Next I plan to purchase a gun safe, one of those huge behemoth things.  Safety first with 4 kids in the house.
 With the world in such a state of flux, and the Chinese declaring intent of hostility, it seems absolutely ridiculous that the government wants to disarm us.  It's like waving a bloody hippy peace sign at all our enemies.  Hey, might as well attack Canada, our old Prime Minister pissed off the US president then disarmed the country.  Good move!
 Oh, and if they do manage to take away our guns, I'll meet one of you at the border.  I'll need 2 mp5's, a spas 12, Beretta Px4, and a phased plasma rifle in 40 watt range, er and a pile of ammo. That's the end of my rant, and now I guess I have to go paint my neck red. 

 Oddly enough, the richest and best educated areas in my city still voted Liberal (kind of like the US map on election day).  My rep is a Liberal, even though she was on tv weeks before the election bragging about how there was no way she would lose...guess she was right.

[c64rulez]

Ever wake up one morning and wonder "what did I do last night?"

Why does everybody view this but post nothing ?
Why wouldn't somebody stand like a man and state the simple fact that the best practice is not to wake in the morning, but in the late afternoon, better with a serious hangover and a cheesecake on each side ?

Why does it have to be me every -- insert obscenity here -- time ?

And then I get the blame for derailing. This sucks.

[menace]

yep went conservative here too--I've confirmed that the liberals and NDP are more than adept at stealing money and lining their pockets--i thought I would let the conservatives have a go and see how much they can get before someone catches them--so far the liberals win federally (well over 3 bil pissed away) but the ndp still hold the record for losing the most provincially--(wasn't it like 10 billion or something..)

I guess now that our dollar is on par with the US we might become one of the states after all--just call us the  real beer drinking, full nude show watching, legalized gambling, pot smoking, lesbian loving 51st state-booyeah!

[Harry Potter]

Well the law-abiding part anyway.  They propose that they will force people to sell their guns to them, no choice.  Now I give you US brothers hassles sometimes about your over-zealous gun thinking ("even baby has a gun, hyuck!"), however taking guns out of every person's hands (that has gone through the courses and training to legally own a gun), but leave them in the hands of punks on the street is crazy.

So you guys are gonna be copying Australia in that respect. Good luck.

[fredster]

Only the outlaws have guns    Man, I know I'd feel so much safer having the government having all the guns.  Yep. I'm sure they would be right there to help me so I wouldn't need one.

And Menace, only 3 billion pissed away?  We do that in about 10 minutes in the US.

[DrewKaree]

Well I voted Conservative. 

Welcome to the Dark Side, my imperialist money-grubbing neanderthal friend!

Dammit, where's that evil grin smiley when we REALLY need it?

[Zakk]

 I just cannot sit by and let a government disarm law abiding citizens.  It reminds me of that Simpson's episode where the whole world burned all the weapons, and the aliens came in and took it over with a slingshot. 

 So when fredster sends all the rejects and hooligans up here to Canada, I damn well want to be able to shoot them! 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a bunch of NRA posters to put up before my wife comes home and rips them down again. 

[Scott84]

Conservatives suck.

(end of discussion) 

[patrickl]

I guess the disarming of citizens in Australia was a mess yes, but I still wonder if in the long run you wont save a hell of a lot of casualties if you ban guns. There are still a huge amount less gun related deaths (and actually other crimes too) in countries where guns are banned than when everybody can own a gun.

In the Netherlands only really insane criminals carry guns. You will never stop those and they will kill you (if they want to) even if you do carry a gun. We do have some criminals killing each other (some "mafia" bosses war). Anyway, most "regular" criminals don't carry a gun since the penalties on that are far more severe than the penalties on the crime they actually want to commit (like robbery, breaking and entering or such) So citizens don't need guns and we suffer far less casualties because of that.

I'm glad our gun posession laws have been sane all along. Correcting the mistake of citizens owning guns is indeed almost impossible to correct. At least you will have decades where large numbers of guns are still lingering around. But still I'd say try to go for it. Look up the stats and you will see that guns don't help you. AFAIK you are more likely to die by your own gun than that you will help prevent a crime.

[Zakk]

Conservatives suck.

(end of discussion) 

Well, yes, we will miss the unprecedented corruption of the Liberals, the economy-destroying incompetence of the NDP, and the pot smoking free will of the green party. Hey, what can you do.

[Edgedamage]

Great.

[Zakk]

I guess the disarming of citizens in Australia was a mess yes, but I still wonder if in the long run you wont save a hell of a lot of casualties if you ban guns. There are still a huge amount less gun related deaths (and actually other crimes too) in countries where guns are banned than when everybody can own a gun.

In the Netherlands only really insane criminals carry guns. You will never stop those and they will kill you (if they want to) even if you do carry a gun. We do have some criminals killing each other (some "mafia" bosses war). Anyway, most "regular" criminals don't carry a gun since the penalties on that are far more severe than the penalties on the crime they actually want to commit (like robbery, breaking and entering or such) So citizens don't need guns and we suffer far less casualties because of that.

I'm glad our gun posession laws have been sane all along. Correcting the mistake of citizens owning guns is indeed almost impossible to correct. At least you will have decades where large numbers of guns are still lingering around. But still I'd say try to go for it. Look up the stats and you will see that guns don't help you. AFAIK you are more likely to die by your own gun than that you will help prevent a crime.

My problem with the gun attitude in the States is that you need to take a test and prove you are competent to drive a car, but you can stumble drunkenly into a corner store and buy a gun.  Both can kill easily.  I feel that only trained, licensed people should own guns, but that the training be available to anyone.  If you don't have a driver's license, you will be arrested if you are found driving a car.  Same should stand for gun ownership.  I 100% believe it is a privledge, not a right.  If goofy redneck joe can't write his own name, then he shouldn't be ownin' no dang gun. 
  I'm going to take the courses, I'm going to take the exams, and then I am going to buy some guns and lock them in a vault and hope that I never need them.  The old saying of "I'd rather have a gun and not need it, then need it and not have it" rings true to me. 

[markrvp]

Conservatives Scott84 sucks.

(end of discussion) 

[Dartful Dodger]

I 100% believe it is a privledge, not a right.  If goofy redneck joe can't write his own name, then he shouldn't be ownin' no dang gun. 
  I'm going to take the courses, I'm going to take the exams, and then I am going to buy some guns and lock them in a vault and hope that I never need them.

What should redneck joe be able to do to be able to protect himself, family and country?
You said write his name... but why stop there, when I was in high school everybody had to learn Algebra, maybe that's another thing we should put on the gun ownership test. Since the majority of people in the US are religious we should add some theological questions to it too.  This way the sinners wont have guns. We could also charge people to take the test, and it should be priced high enough to keep the unemployed from getting a gun.

When the constitution was first written the common people couldn't read and write.  But why stop at making reading and writing a mandatory prerequisite to protect yourself we should also make it mandatory for police and fire protection too.  It will be easy to enforce, since we don't let them have guns.

I 100% believe that you don't understand how privileged you are.  I also believe that some people were not taught to hold high value on education, so I will not hold that or the fact that they have a permanent sun burn on their necks from working outside their whole lives against them.  Redneck joe lives over 30 minutes away from the nearest police station. It takes 30 minutes for the police to respond to a crime that's 5 minutes from the police station, redneck joe needs a gun more than you do.

[Zakk]

I hold to Darwinian law.  If redneck Joe is too stupid to read and write (or too lazy to learn to do so), then maybe he shouldn't be able to protect himself with a firearm. 

However, I was being general in that terminology anyway.  What I meant was that redneck Joe should have to take some sort of course on how to properly respect, store, secure and fire that firearm.  Even if it has to be verbal, or he has to respond with gestures and grunts.  If it's the term redneck that is bothering you, please substitute 'Toothless Earl" or " 'married his sister' Jim".

So why is it you need a licence to drive a car, but just breath in your body to buy a gun? 
Give me a reasonable answer to that question beyond "it's our right", and I'll drop the whole thing. 

Wouldn't you feel a whole lot more secure in your fear, if all these people who 'need to protect themselves on a daily basis' were actually trained to do so?  How about the kids that find guns that were improperly stored because the proud new owner never read a word on proper gun storage?

[Dartful Dodger]

So why is it you need a licence to drive a car, but just breath in your body to buy a gun?

I think if you can't spell license you shouldn't get one.

[Luxury]

Redneck Joe, 'Toothless Earl" or " 'married his sister' Jim".

I swear to GOD that you spying on me and my brothers (and sister).  Knock it the ---smurfette--- off!

[Zakk]

Well you do leave the dang curtn's open all the time, dagnubbit! 

[Zakk]

So why is it you need a licence to drive a car, but just breath in your body to buy a gun?

I think if you can't spell license you shouldn't get one.

Touche.  However, it leaves it glaringly obvious that you have no reasonable or even far-fetched notion as to why there is no qualifications put on gun ownership.

 Well, curl up with a copy of the bill of rights, suckle your thumb and hum softly to yourself.   Night night Mary. 

[AtomSmasher]

So why is it you need a licence to drive a car, but just breath in your body to buy a gun?

I think if you can't spell license you shouldn't get one.

Touche.  However, it leaves it glaringly obvious that you have no reasonable or even far-fetched notion as to why there is no qualifications put on gun ownership.

 Well, curl up with a copy of the bill of rights, suckle your thumb and hum softly to yourself.   Night night Mary. 

There are huge differences between driving a car and firing a gun.  The most obvious is that its a lot more likely to hurt someone if you don't know how to drive then it is if you don't know how to properly store a gun.  Another difference is that vehicles are allowed to be in public and around schools and guns are not (in most states at least).  I'm sure there are plenty other reasons, but I know little about our gun laws and am just stating what came to mind after reading your hippy post.  I own several guns and they are all either presents or hand-me-downs so none of them are registered to me

[Dartful Dodger]

So why is it you need a license to drive a car, but just a sperm and/or an egg in your body to have a baby?

Having a gun is a right because our founding fathers saw the need for us to protect ourselves from our own government.  Your testing idea sounds good in theory, but in practice it's letting our government issue tests to see who is qualified to own a gun to protect us from it.

You said you were making a joke about illiterate rednecks, but that's how it starts.  If you tell a joke long enough it becomes acceptable.

What confuses me is, the people who want us to give up our right, are the same people who detest and distrust our government the most.

[Zakk]

So why is it you need a license to drive a car, but just a sperm and/or an egg in your body to have a baby?

Having a gun is a right because our founding fathers saw the need for us to protect ourselves from our own government.  Your testing idea sounds good in theory, but in practice it's letting our government issue tests to see who is qualified to own a gun to protect us from it.

You said you were making a joke about illiterate rednecks, but that's how it starts.  If you tell a joke long enough it becomes acceptable.

What confuses me is, the people who want us to give up our right, are the same people who detest and distrust our government the most.

That's a huge contradiction, you are saying that you want to defend the 'right' to own a gun because you need them for for protection from the government, then you say it's the people who don't trust the government that want to take away the 'right' to own a gun. 

I don't want to take away anyone's 'privilege' to own a gun, I'd just like to make it tougher for riff-raff to get them. 

BTW your founding fathers are long dead and buried, and with them should have gone this archaic thinking.

Oh, and sorry about the redneck joke, but it's okay, they're not a minority or anything, so they're fair game 

[fredster]

Zakk,

In America, it's a RIGHT to own a gun.
It's a PRIVILEGE to Drive.

There are restrictions on ownership, based on the rights of the person. When you go to prison, you give up certain rights. Like Voting and owning guns.

Reasonable answers for owning guns:

1) Killing small animals that invade your property (rabid raccoons)
2) Killing other animals that you need to kill (like horse/broken leg thing)
3) Protecting your property from those who wish to damage it. (The police are not under obligation to respond to all calls - look at Katrina)
4) Protecting your family from bodily harm (for the same reason)
5) Recreation - hunting / target shooting
6) Maintaining your ability to arm yourself if invaded from Canada
7) Driving nails in wood at long distances
Assisted Suicide
9) Because we should in order to maintain the balance between the government and the citizens.  Just because we have order today, doesn't mean we will always have order. 
10) Training for our jobs (if you are police or security)

An archaic idea is that the government will always be there to help you. No, I take that back, that's a naive idea.

You all do what you think is best up there in Canada, okay? We'll do the same in the States.
Maybe you guys can figure out what language you need to speak and if you need to break up into two countries to achieve it. 

[Zakk]

Oh fella, I know it's a right.  However, beyond that chest-thumping screeching call, there seems to be no argument as to WHY it should still be a right.  People are abusing the 'right' all over the place.  I think if there had been cars tooling around back in the day of 'your founding fathers', it would be a 'right' to drive, and you'd be defending why it's okay to drive a car without a license _{(must check spelling)}.

"You all do what you think is best up there in Canada, okay? We'll do the same in the States."

Well, you mean unless Bush tells you that we're hiding WMD's in our maple syrup and you decide to invade and "fix" us?  Wow, how about some consistency.  Stop invading countries and I'll believe you.


(All said and done, I did get a chuckle out of that 'assisted suicide' point) 

[Dartful Dodger]

(must check spelling)

Spell check is only a must when you misspell while pointing out how more smart you is than others.

[Zakk]

smartass 

[sirwoogie]

Spell check is only a must when you misspell while pointing out how more smart you is than others.

Grammar check is important too. Be nice.

[AtomSmasher]

Ah, now I understand what your saying, you just hate America.  You make fun of the bill of rights, one of our most important documents, and our founding fathers who laid the foundation for this country as great as it is.  Now I know to just ignore any political statements you make since they will also likely be anti-american hippy crap.

[Edgedamage]

America gave us MONSTER TRUCKS!!! Gotta love them.

[DrewKaree]

Ah, now I understand what your saying, you just hate America.  You make fun of the bill of rights, one of our most important documents, and our founding fathers who laid the foundation for this country as great as it is.  Now I know to just ignore any political statements you make since they will also likely be anti-american hippy crap.

I don't believe this to be the case at all.  While I may not agree with what he says, I certainly believe this to be an inaccurate judgement of Zakk, and a seemingly knee-jerk reaction.

[Dartful Dodger]

If Canada is his really his home, I understand what he's thinking and I sympathize with his plight.  Canadians gave up their guns little by little.  The country divided them up into sports men, collectors, defense, hand gun and rifle enthusiasts.  Then they went after the smaller groups.  The larger groups believed they were safe from losing their rights, or in Canada it's their privileges, but in any case once the small groups lost their rights the smaller groups had no reason to defend the bigger groups so eventually there will be no groups.

Americans saw how quickly Canada lost control, and that's why we don't want to give up the rights we have.  I don't see a reason to own a fully automatic, or a .50 cal, but I know if I give up the right to own one, I might as well give up the right to speak too.

[AtomSmasher]

Ah, now I understand what your saying, you just hate America.  You make fun of the bill of rights, one of our most important documents, and our founding fathers who laid the foundation for this country as great as it is.  Now I know to just ignore any political statements you make since they will also likely be anti-american hippy crap.

I don't believe this to be the case at all.  While I may not agree with what he says, I certainly believe this to be an inaccurate judgement of Zakk, and a seemingly knee-jerk reaction.

I think if there had been cars tooling around back in the day of 'your founding fathers', it would be a 'right' to drive, and you'd be defending why it's okay to drive a car without a license

Maybe I judged too quickly, but that quote tells me he thinks little of our founding fathers and the bill of rights which they made.  That the bill of rights aren't actually rights, just a list of stuff our founding fathers liked to have at the time.

[DrewKaree]

He's trying to show that he believes the differences aren't as "different' as we'd think and using exaggeration to make his point.  I don't take it as him making fun of our founding fathers OR our Bill of Rights.

I DO agree with him being a hippy though

At the very least, he's a dirty dirty Canuck 

[AtomSmasher]

I DO agree with him being a hippy though

At the very least, he's a dirty dirty Canuck 

Now that I can agree with

[c64rulez]

I DO agree with him being a hippy though

At the very least, he's a dirty dirty Canuck 

Now that I can agree with

That's not true. Some are lesbians.

[Zakk]

Ah, now I understand what your saying, you just hate America.  You make fun of the bill of rights, one of our most important documents, and our founding fathers who laid the foundation for this country as great as it is.  Now I know to just ignore any political statements you make since they will also likely be anti-american hippy crap.

Or, you might just say that you don't have an intellgent answer to my questions.  I don't hate America, I don't hate your founding fathers, and I don't hate your bill of rights.  I do think the bill or rights could stand a bit of updating since times change.
 You're getting this from "I think people should take a test before they can buy something that can kill themselves, their children, or others".  Period.  That's it.  There's no more to it.  I've probably got more family in the States then you do, I probably have nicer suits, a better car, more money in the bank, a bigger house, etc than you do.  Don't shovel that hippy crap over the issue and dismiss it.  You stood up and made a statement, and then tried to fluff it off as "you're just a hater, so I'll ignore you".  If you don't want to discuss something, then stay out of it.

 You actually cheezed me off pretty good with your nonesense.  I went back and re-read what I typed, and I damn well did not make any fun of your 'founding fathers'.  They were all great men, and you have a great institution there.  I think there could be some tweaking from time to time, but I do not by any means HATE AMERICA.  I don't see where I attacked your bill of rights either, past saying that I don't agree that it is not showing its age when it comes to the concept of 'guns for all'.  


Drew: thanks for the vote of confidence.  You're bloody well right I don't hate Americans (even if I don't agree with everything they say or do all the time), why else would I bother to interact with so many of them?  

[c64rulez]

what's canada named after anyway ?

[Zakk]

You're an idiot.  Heaven forbid anyone discuss the bill of rights, but posting a vicious, racist bit of trash is okay?  If that's funny to you, then I don't think I'm the one with a problem buddy.  Go back to your warehouse job, and spouting racial slurs.

[Zakk]

what's canada named after anyway ?

Your mama. 
It's huge, smells like fish, and there's nothing of use at the top.
Evidently it's gay too.

[c64rulez]

Dude, how about some kind of minimum purpose to your posts?  I mean, "Your mama. 
It's huge, smells like fish, and there's nothing of use at the top.
Evidently it's gay too."

W.     T.       F.?

Love, c64 

[c64rulez]

what's canada named after anyway ?

Your mama. 
It's huge, smells like fish, and there's nothing of use at the top.
Evidently it's gay too.

So.... just like your mama but without the gas problem ?

[BobA]

I don't think Candians qualify as a race they are of many races.
Gays are also not a race but of many races.

That poster was hateful but not racial.

Just a clarification from another Canuk

[DrewKaree]

what's canada named after anyway ?

It's named after the favorite request of the country.

"Hey der, bring me anudder canada Molson's, ey!"

Zakk, I think you just like to interact with the dead sexy 'mercans.  It's the only logical conclusion one can come up with. 

[c64rulez]

Sweet dreams boys.
dont forget to dream of gay fish and Canada, the country where everybody CAN ADApt. 

[Edgedamage]

I DO agree with him being a hippy though

At the very least, he's a dirty dirty Canuck 

Now that I can agree with

It's goofs like this that give the USA a bad name. Too bad 99.9% of Americans are really great people.

[AtomSmasher]

Ah, now I understand what your saying, you just hate America.  You make fun of the bill of rights, one of our most important documents, and our founding fathers who laid the foundation for this country as great as it is.  Now I know to just ignore any political statements you make since they will also likely be anti-american hippy crap.

Or, you might just say that you don't have an intellgent answer to my questions.  I don't hate America, I don't hate your founding fathers, and I don't hate your bill of rights.  I do think the bill or rights could stand a bit of updating since times change.
 You're getting this from "I think people should take a test before they can buy something that can kill themselves, their children, or others".  Period.  That's it.  There's no more to it.  I've probably got more family in the States then you do, I probably have nicer suits, a better car, more money in the bank, a bigger house, etc than you do.  Don't shovel that hippy crap over the issue and dismiss it.  You stood up and made a statement, and then tried to fluff it off as "you're just a hater, so I'll ignore you".  If you don't want to discuss something, then stay out of it.

 You actually cheezed me off pretty good with your nonesense.  I went back and re-read what I typed, and I damn well did not make any fun of your 'founding fathers'.  They were all great men, and you have a great institution there.  I think there could be some tweaking from time to time, but I do not by any means HATE AMERICA.  I don't see where I attacked your bill of rights either, past saying that I don't agree that it is not showing its age when it comes to the concept of 'guns for all'.  


Drew: thanks for the vote of confidence.  You're bloody well right I don't hate Americans (even if I don't agree with everything they say or do all the time), why else would I bother to interact with so many of them?  

If you read my later post you would have seen that I said I may have judged to quickly and even gave my reasoning for my post.  I realize now that you were exaggerating to make a point, but frankly your point makes zero sense to me.  The only thing cars and guns even remotely have in common is they both can kill, but many things can kill.  Should we also have to have a license to own or operate knives? boats? cigarettes?  skateboards? 

And I love your little rant about how you think you have more money, family members, etc. then me even though you have no idea who I am.    I guess your trying to prove your not a hippy, but it just makes you look like an ass.

I actually had a long post similar to this one written out instead of my "you hate america" post, but decided not to put it because I figured whatever I write you'll just say the same thing over again, how cars are the same as guns, at least this time I got a unique post from you.

As for the Canadians are gay picture, I used to have a number of canadians friends (ok I only knew then through the internet) and theyre the ones that showed me that, so does that mean they're "racist" again their own "race"?  That picture is an obvious joke, if you can't see that then your more naive and sensitive then I am.

[Dartful Dodger]

It's goofs like this that give the USA a bad name. Too bad 99.9% of Americans are really great people.

That's a high guesstimate, although we know the number is over 50%.

[Zakk]

If you read my later post you would have seen that I said I may have judged to quickly and even gave my reasoning for my post.  I realize now that you were exaggerating to make a point, but frankly your point makes zero sense to me.  The only thing cars and guns even remotely have in common is they both can kill, but many things can kill.  Should we also have to have a license to own or operate knives? boats? cigarettes?  skateboards? 

And I love your little rant about how you think you have more money, family members, etc. then me even though you have no idea who I am.    I guess your trying to prove your not a hippy, but it just makes you look like an ass.

I actually had a long post similar to this one written out instead of my "you hate america" post, but decided not to put it because I figured whatever I write you'll just say the same thing over again, how cars are the same as guns, at least this time I got a unique post from you.

As for the Canadians are gay picture, I used to have a number of canadians friends (ok I only knew then through the internet) and theyre the ones that showed me that, so does that mean they're "racist" again their own "race"?  That picture is an obvious joke, if you can't see that then your more naive and sensitive then I am.

You didn't retract at all in your later post, you said the same thing a different way.  I was in no way insulting America.

I suppose what you were doing was throwing a smokescreen since really, you have yet to give me a valid reason why it is wrong to suggest licensing something as dangerous as a gun.  You've attacked my country (I don't care where you got the photo, it's the vicious manner in which it was intended when you posted it), you've called me a hippy, and you've called me an American hater.  Good for you.  I guess I'll counter with "I know you are but what am I?"

Okay, the spiel about the big house and the big vat of money I swim in may have been a little out of sorts, however, I am as far from a hippy as a person gets.  I don't wear sandals, I don't protest soldiers, I don't hug trees and I like to bathe on a regular basis (so there to you Drew!  )  Maybe I remind you of your landlord, is that it?

So again, add to the conversation, or get out.  You might as well start spouting gibberish like c64, however I will say at least yours is coherent enough to irk me

[Zakk]

what's canada named after anyway ?

It's named after the favorite request of the country.

"Hey der, bring me anudder canada Molson's, ey!"

Zakk, I think you just like to interact with the dead sexy 'mercans.  It's the only logical conclusion one can come up with. 

That's right, I love all 'mercans.  Alive or dead.  Well unless they were criminals.  I don't miss them that much.  Oh and Andy Warhol.  Was he American?  Don't miss him much.

[markrvp]

Zakk:

I know you're a good guy.  Don't get upset.  Remember, a little over 50% of us Americans are excited you guys went conservative


Fred and Dartful Dodger made the correct point:

Owning guns (bearing arms) is a right guaranteed in our constitution, driving is a privilege.


Now, I agree with you that it makes great sense that gun owners need to know how to operate and store their firearms.  However, to require subjective or selective conditions for ownership would be a violation of the constitution.  What most people don't understand is that people like me who are against most gun control measures are simply trying to preserve our rights.  And that is not specific to guns.  If a compromise were made that changed who could own guns, then a precedent would be set to alter other rights as well such as free speech, the right against unreasonable search and siezures, etc.

Please keep in mind that people who support gun rights are not wacko extremists, but rather persons who support all the freedoms we are guaranteed by our constitution.  People who believe that compromising on this right will not affect other rights are naive.

[CartmanDP1]

guns dont kill people, gang members do.
Liberals Suck
Gay Marriage is for Homos
Guns and Rock and Roll
End of Story

[DrewKaree]

Nothing worthy of ACTUALLY quoting was here

Not bad.  Not even a quarter of a hundred posts and you've managed to exhibit the qualities that make you a tool.  Oh, and some of those people you'll be asking for help, those folks are the ones you think "suck".  Way to be a disgrace to conservative-minded people.  Mebbe re-register and try again.  You scuk at teh kewl, tewl.

[Zakk]

Zakk:

I know you're a good guy.  Don't get upset.  Remember, a little over 50% of us Americans are excited you guys went conservative


Fred and Dartful Dodger made the correct point:

Owning guns (bearing arms) is a right guaranteed in our constitution, driving is a privilege.


Now, I agree with you that it makes great sense that gun owners need to know how to operate and store their firearms.  However, to require subjective or selective conditions for ownership would be a violation of the constitution.  What most people don't understand is that people like me who are against most gun control measures are simply trying to preserve our rights.  And that is not specific to guns.  If a compromise were made that changed who could own guns, then a precedent would be set to alter other rights as well such as free speech, the right against unreasonable search and siezures, etc.

Please keep in mind that people who support gun rights are not wacko extremists, but rather persons who support all the freedoms we are guaranteed by our constitution.  People who believe that compromising on this right will not affect other rights are naive.

Yeah yeah, I hear you.  I suppose I just didn't look at it that way.  Here we change laws and 'rights' all the time, and generally we aren't hard done by.  We're not terrified of our own government, and paranoia here is almost non existant.  Maybe that's naive, time will tell.

 I don't know how it got turned around into me attacking the US constitution (well I do see where that happened, but I'm pretty tired of the argument so I won't name names), but that wasn't my intent.  In fact, around here I am a bit of a radical on the subject.  Most here agree that guns should be removed from the general populace.  I guess I'll just curl up with some rum and listen to some Ted Nugent.  Ted knows where it's at. 

[AtomSmasher]

You didn't retract at all in your later post, you said the same thing a different way.  I was in no way insulting America.

True, I did not retract it I just explained why I said it.  I am an American and I took it as an insult, and then you call me an idiot for thinking it was an insult.  The second amendment was not designed on a whim.  Much thought was placed into it (and all amendments), and I thought you were saying otherwise.  I understand what you were trying to say now, I just disagree with your reasoning.

I suppose what you were doing was throwing a smokescreen since really, you have yet to give me a valid reason why it is wrong to suggest licensing something as dangerous as a gun. 

And you haven't given a valid reason why it should be require a license.  Your car comparision just doesn't work, and just because a gun is dangerous doesn't work either.  Besides, its not like requiring a license would change anything, it would just keep honest people honest and the unhonest ones would get guns anyways, just as theres plenty of people driving cars without licenses (figured I'd keep with your car comparision)

You've attacked my country (I don't care where you got the photo, it's the vicious manner in which it was intended when you posted it), you've called me a hippy, and you've called me an American hater.  Good for you.  I guess I'll counter with "I know you are but what am I?"

Just as I thought you attacked the foundation my country was built on (not to mention the jab at our president) and called me an idiot.  

Okay, the spiel about the big house and the big vat of money I swim in may have been a little out of sorts, however, I am as far from a hippy as a person gets.  I don't wear sandals, I don't protest soldiers, I don't hug trees and I like to bathe on a regular basis (so there to you Drew!  )  Maybe I remind you of your landlord, is that it?

Fair enough, but I call all liberals hippys  Maybe I just watched too much southpark or something.  And since you seem to think I'm a poor (or maybe your just hoping), I make over $100k a year, am in the process of buying a brand new house (its currently being built), and own a 2004 pontiac GTO which is my dream car (a modern muscle car superior to both the new mustang, charger, and to me even better then a vette...ok not the new 500hp vette).  Not bad considering I've only been out of college 2 years  But then this is the internet and could be making it all up, just as you could still be living in your mothers basement, theres no way to know.

So again, add to the conversation, or get out.  You might as well start spouting gibberish like c64, however I will say at least yours is coherent enough to irk me

You do realize this is the EE forum right?  99% of the replies you get will not add to the conversation.   I thought I learned to stay out of political threads on this forum since I usually get pulled into pointless debates, unfortunately that slipped my mind when I started posting here.  So here I am again in another pointless debate.  

And markrvp was right one the money with his post.

[AtomSmasher]

You didn't retract at all in your later post, you said the same thing a different way.  I was in no way insulting America.

True, I did not retract it I just explained why I said it.  I am an American and I took it as an insult, and then you call me an idiot for thinking it was an insult.  The second amendment was not designed on a whim.  Much thought was placed into it (and all amendments), and I thought you were saying otherwise.  I understand what you were trying to say now, I just disagree with your reasoning.

I suppose what you were doing was throwing a smokescreen since really, you have yet to give me a valid reason why it is wrong to suggest licensing something as dangerous as a gun. 

And you haven't given a valid reason why it should be require a license.  Your car comparision just doesn't work, and just because a gun is dangerous doesn't work either.  Besides, its not like requiring a license would change anything, it would just keep honest people honest and the unhonest ones would get guns anyways, just as theres plenty of people driving cars without licenses (figured I'd keep with your car comparision)

You've attacked my country (I don't care where you got the photo, it's the vicious manner in which it was intended when you posted it), you've called me a hippy, and you've called me an American hater.  Good for you.  I guess I'll counter with "I know you are but what am I?"

Just as I thought you attacked the foundation my country was built on (not to mention the jab at our president) and called me an idiot.  

Okay, the spiel about the big house and the big vat of money I swim in may have been a little out of sorts, however, I am as far from a hippy as a person gets.  I don't wear sandals, I don't protest soldiers, I don't hug trees and I like to bathe on a regular basis (so there to you Drew!  )  Maybe I remind you of your landlord, is that it?

Fair enough, but I call all liberals hippys  Maybe I just watched too much southpark or something.  And since you seem to think I'm a poor (or maybe your just hoping), I make over $100k a year, am in the process of buying a brand new house (its currently being built), and own a 2004 pontiac GTO which is my dream car (a modern muscle car superior to both the new mustang, charger, and to me even better then a vette...ok not the new 500hp vette).  Not bad considering I've only been out of college 2 years  But then this is the internet and could be making it all up, just as you could still be living in your mothers basement, theres no way to know.

So again, add to the conversation, or get out.  You might as well start spouting gibberish like c64, however I will say at least yours is coherent enough to irk me

You do realize this is the EE forum right?  99% of the replies you get will not add to the conversation.   I thought I learned to stay out of political threads on this forum since I usually get pulled into pointless debates, unfortunately that slipped my mind when I started posting here.  So here I am again in another pointless debate.  

And markrvp was right on the money with his post.

[Zakk]

You didn't need to post that all twice, I read it the first time

I think maybe we did get off on the wrong foot.  However the only thing I might ever be guilty of is poking fun at your president (and hey, we're all entitled to our opinion on that one).  If Jeb ever gets in I'll support him, I find him to be intelligent and an effective leader.  HOWEVER, I'm not anti-Republican, anti-American or anything remotely related. 

Also, sorry about the poverty jabs. I see too many posts about "I'd love to order one of those fancy $20 encoders, but I sure can't afford that kind of cash!" and assume most arcade enthusiasts are poor.  I figured you had a grade 6 education and worked at Denny's (heh okay maybe not).   

I just did not care for being painted an American-hater.  There's enough of them around here, pick on them

We'll let the gun thing drop as a difference of opinions(?).  I DO think it's a good idea to be trained (if not licensed) before buying a gun, but I do see how that might be impossible for you guys.  Remember, I'm a Republican Conservative now, and soon to be a card-carrying restricted weapon owner.  Let's tip back a Molson Bud  and watch some hockey football together

[markrvp]

Let's tip back a Molson Bud  and watch some hockey football together

Didn't you guys replace hockey with curling?

[Zakk]

That's it.  You're a Canada-hating jerk and I won't pay any attention to anything you have to say from now on! 


Curling indeed.

[CartmanDP1]

Nothing worthy of ACTUALLY quoting was here

Not bad.  Not even a quarter of a hundred posts and you've managed to exhibit the qualities that make you a tool.  Oh, and some of those people you'll be asking for help, those folks are the ones you think "suck".  Way to be a disgrace to conservative-minded people.  Mebbe re-register and try again.  You scuk at teh kewl, tewl.

wow way to take a joke, funny how no one else left an angry reply, just thought I'd break up all the "serious" political banter with some humor, maybe i didn't come off as sarcastic as I thought, but jeese this isn't a political message board its a freaking arcade message board, last time i checked that fell into the entertainment category and I thought people could take a joke. If I offended anyone I retract my statements and I will edit them now.

[CartmanDP1]

guns do kill people, gang members dont.
Liberals are good hard working people
Gay Marriage is still for Homos, just by definition people take a joke
Guns are dangerous, be careful. Rock and Roll is for the devil
Beginning of Story

[Zakk]

Nothing worthy of ACTUALLY quoting was here

Not bad.  Not even a quarter of a hundred posts and you've managed to exhibit the qualities that make you a tool.  Oh, and some of those people you'll be asking for help, those folks are the ones you think "suck".  Way to be a disgrace to conservative-minded people.  Mebbe re-register and try again.  You scuk at teh kewl, tewl.

wow way to take a joke, funny how no one else left an angry reply, just thought I'd break up all the "serious" political banter with some humor, maybe i didn't come off as sarcastic as I thought, but jeese this isn't a political message board its a freaking arcade message board, last time i checked that fell into the entertainment category and I thought people could take a joke. If I offended anyone I retract my statements and I will edit them now.

You were trolling, most here realized it and ignored you.  Drew, he's easily baited.  There was nothing funny in your post, it was hateful and insipid.

Now you tell me, am I joking, or not?

[AtomSmasher]

You didn't need to post that all twice, I read it the first time

Heh, I hit the wrong button, I meant to hit edit and change a minor typo, but I guess I hit quote.  If you notice the last line is different, changed "one" to "on".  Maybe I am an idiot

We'll let the gun thing drop as a difference of opinions(?).  I DO think it's a good idea to be trained (if not licensed) before buying a gun, but I do see how that might be impossible for you guys.  Remember, I'm a Republican Conservative now, and soon to be a card-carrying restricted weapon owner.  Let's tip back a Molson Bud  and watch some hockey football together

Agreed.  Although I also agree that you should take a class on gun safety or at least have someone knowledgable show you gun safety before handling a gun, I just don't think it should be law.

[CartmanDP1]

Wow I think I stumbled into the dryest place on earth, I really didn't plan on causing any trouble, what happened? This will be my last post in this section, i don't want any trouble.

[BackAgain]

Cartman, don't take this too hard.
It's just that Drew, Zakk, et al are regulars here in the political threads and can take the sarcastic comments when they know the person's intents.  It'll take a few more postings on your part before we can tell if you're being sarcastic, mean no harm, etc.

It's kind of like a bunch of guys at work calling each other jerkoffs, and the new guy walks up and says, "hey jerkoff!".  You kind of need to be accepted first.

[Zakk]

Cartman, don't take this too hard.
It's just that Drew, Zakk, et al are regulars here in the political threads and can take the sarcastic comments when they know the person's intents.  It'll take a few more postings on your part before we can tell if you're being sarcastic, mean no harm, etc.

It's kind of like a bunch of guys at work calling each other jerkoffs, and the new guy walks up and says, "hey jerkoff!".  You kind of need to be accepted first.

Yeah?  Well, then...er...there's a lot of irony in the fact that you are posting this, however...good point! 

:cough: :cough: however it IS quite dry in here!

[BackAgain]

This is not the first time I've deleted my account and started over.  I've sworn off getting involved in political debates, but I still like to watch.   (and here come the sex innuendos - come on, I know you got 'em!)

[duffjr]

The story goes that Canada was actually named by drawing letters at random out of a hat. The letters were drawn in the order C, N, D. The man drawing the letters was recorded as saying, "C, eh... N, eh... D, eh..."

Without guns, the Prime Minister of France could just walk into your house and start shoving you around anytime he wanted.  Do you want that?  Huh, do you?

[AllisterFiend]

From what I have noticed over the years is that every country that started to register their citizens guns for so called safety reasons or "keeping guns out of the hands of the criminals" eventually winded up using that information to confiscate their guns.  I think this was the case in Australia and Great Briton, I could be wrong so someone from those countries please let me know.

The statement that our Bill Of Rights is outdated is just plain wrong, Our Bill Of Rights as well as our Constitution are as relevant today as they were when they were first written, those old men were way ahead of their time, too bad we here in the United States ignore it most of the time, A few things have been changed over the decades that have weakend those documents and it is a shame.

I have always believed in the right to bear arms, even when I did not have any guns, at least I knew I could get one when I decided it was time.  I have now inherited a few from my father when he passed away.

I have never seen the police arrive before a crime has happened so I do not depend on them or the government to protect me and my family, I will leave that up to me.  Criminals do not register guns anyway, so you can stop selling them to law abiding citizens and it will not stop the criminals from getting them. 

You would be surprised how many people each day stop crimes against them with a firearm, of course, I would expect the media to inform us on that, hmmmm, but that is another story for another day.

I'm not against taking classes though, every one should, but it should not be a law.  I believe that if everyone took classes, including young children we would not have nearly as many child deaths each year, if they know how to handle a firearm and understand the whole bullet in the chamber after the clip has been taking out rule, and know and respect what it can do to people, we might prevent some accidental deaths. 

We have made guns so taboo over here that most people have never seen a real gun much less touched one, so that when a child comes across one it is like he found some mystical object and they then have to play with it as they have never seen one before.

Anyway, just some thoughts from me old head.  I'll stop the rambling now.

P.S. Welcome to the other side, I'm a recovering democrat . er I mean liberal/socialist. going on 5 years now, and every time I turn on the news I do not regret the switch!

Well, you mean unless Bush tells you that we're hiding WMD's in our maple syrup and you decide to invade and "fix" us?  Wow, how about some consistency.  Stop invading countries and I'll believe you.

Oh yea, do not worry about us invading Canada over WMD's, just like in Iraq, we would not do that unless France, Germany, Isreal, Russia, United Nations, and just about every democrat here said you also had them. 

Allister Fiend

[Edgedamage]

If the goverment gets up your nose then picket.

[Dartful Dodger]

Daley(and Canada) was on a kick to punish the people that were involved in selling guns gone bad...Last year a guy in Chicago bought a gun and shot up the store that fired him.   He bought the gun from a Vietnam vet, who bought he gun from an Illinois State trooper, who bought the gun from another Illinois state trooper.  Also your example of a kid finding a parents gun ... last year a kid in Wisconsin found a gun his grand parent left lying around and shot up his school, that grand parent was a police officer.

You can't train or test a person for common sense. If they are mentally unstable or a felon they can't own a gun(but that doesn't stop them), and that's the best you can do.  What scares me about state run testing is that under 100 years ago they would test people before they could vote.  And the state did rig the test so that certain people would fail.
----
Canadians = homos
rednecks = not good enough to own a gun
inbreeders =  not good enough to own a gun
the toothless = not good enough to own a gun

These are all said jokingly, but you get upset when Canadians and homos are referred to each other.  I get upset when guns and the above are put in the same sentence.

For future reference only South Park refers to Canadians as g@y.  It's funny because Canada isn't g@y.  The world knows that Brazil is the g@y country.

[fredster]

Zakk,

Relax, the US and Canada are good trading partners. We haven't went to war with a bordering country since the Mexican / American war.  We did thump on Cuba, but we use it as a base now.

If we invade we will rebuild you.  I've been to Guelph and places around. You might want to screw with us just so you can upgrade.  I don't like Canada, it's way too cold. I can't see how people want to live any further north in this land mass than Kentucky. I hate snow, and worse than snow, I hate people who like snow.

But I am just rambling. Back to the point.

The important thing is that the liberal party has continued to forge some kind of new Canada that conflicts with what the average Canadian wants. And they had been in power so long that they got greedy.

Honestly, that's what happens everywhere. The republicans and the democrats make machines in regions that do the same thing. The only thing you can do is kick them out and remember why you put them there in the first place.

It's human nature to do that. There is just too much money and too much power to be handled responsibly for very long. No one party can represent all the people.  Eventually the divisions become so large that the political balance changes.

I hope it works out. Even your conservatives are liberals to us.

[Zakk]

If it makes you feel better, I'm none too fond of cold either, but it seems to be our major export 6 months of the year. 

As for Guelph...take it.  Please!  That's a nasty bit of work, Guelph.  If there is a Canadian equivalent of rednecks, they reside in Guelph

Don't hate me for my cold! 

[markrvp]

If it makes you feel better, I'm none too fond of cold either, but it seems to be our major export 6 months of the year. 

As for Guelph...take it.  Please!  That's a nasty bit of work, Guelph.  If there is a Canadian equivalent of rednecks, they reside in Guelph

Don't hate me for my cold! 

So what do you have against curling?   

[fredster]

Zakk, then move south. God I don't know how people can live under 40

[markrvp]

Markrvp, Curling what? WTH is Curling?

In the last Winter Olympics you may have seen it.  It's where they put a big pot on the ice and then a bunch of guys with broom sweep the ice really fast to make the pot slide down the ice.

It's the sport that when everyone saw it they went, "WTF are they doing?"

[AllisterFiend]

Markrvp, Curling what? WTH is Curling?

In the last Winter Olympics you may have seen it.  It's where they put a big pot on the ice and then a bunch of guys with broom sweep the ice really fast to make the pot slide down the ice.

It's the sport that when everyone saw it they went, "WTF are they doing?"

WOW, strange you should mention this, my neighbor and I were trying to think of the name of that sport the other day and we could not come up with anything, thanks.

Allister Fiend


P.S. I'll give you full credit, TRUST ME. 


Allister Fiend

[Zakk]

Zakk, then move south. God I don't know how people can live under 40

[fredster]

That's just wrong. That curling thing. How bored do you have to be to come up with something like that?

Zakk, what do you think of this article about the election from the US perspective?

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=c6671bd6-570c-4e6b-8752-bc9fcf57c12e&k=27679

[Zakk]

Well, that's from a Canadian news source, and quoting Gore, I highly doubt that's from an American perspective.  Sounds like fear mongering to me.  To be honest, we're not sure where Harper sits.  His track record is nonexistent, so we'll just have to wait and see.  However I'm quite sure he will seek to improve relations between our countries, which I do see as a positive step.  Martin was very belligerent to the US, for his own gain, and many of us didn't much care for it.  MOST of us know how beneficial it is for our two countries to rely on each other over certain things, and have a good working relationship.

 To be honest with you, I'm at the point where I think we need to close the borders to immigrants for a while, until we get a better screening process.  I'd also like to see much greater security at our ports and borders.  We ARE a bit ineffective at keeping undesirables from leaking into the country.  We are also far too forgiving when we catch these people.  I'm not quite to the point of saying "we should wall up the country and keep everyone out and just look out for our own interests", but I'm swaying further into that camp than ever before.  I just don't think the government has a real grasp at how serious the threat is getting, what with overpopulation and world opinion.  Hey, we've got enough oil, and food, wood and fresh water up here to do us  indefinitely.  Maybe I should get started on that wall...

Dammit, I've become Ultra Conservative! 

[AllisterFiend]

Dammit, I've become Ultra Conservative! 

Oh boy, can I call you a fascist pig now?



Allister Fiend

[CheffoJeffo]

To be honest, we're not sure where Harper sits.  His track record is nonexistent, so we'll just have to wait and see. 

And we're not sure WHICH Harper will show up to Sussex Drive ... I think that Mr. Harper personally can be seen as Ultra-Conservative. His early mailings when he sought leadership of the combined party caused me to turn in my membership card (I know that some folks here will find it surprising that I was actually a member of a conservative party ... I've actually never voted for another party, despite those who have recently called me an elitist liberal ... elitist, certainly, but liberal ?).

The Steven Harper that campaigned for and won the spot of Prime Minister was not the same man who hammered on the evils of same sex marriage and how he would stop it at any cost. Hey, I almost like the new guy.

As I see it, there are two questions:

1) Which Harper is going to show up as PM ?
2) Can he maintain one "personal" viewpoint and one "party" viewpoint when the two diverge ?

It will be interesting.

Cheers.

[c64rulez]

Dammit, I've become Ultra Conservative! 

Oh boy, can I call you a fascist pig now?



Allister Fiend

Just plain pessimistic will do.
I mean this guy just sees evil doers on every corner with rocket launchers sticking out their pockets. China is after him also, and he's saying he's just taking all this gun courses for what ?

Strike "pessimistic".

 A Pessimistic paranoid will be better.

[Zakk]

Oh, I'm sorry, did I ignore you the first time, so you thought you'd fire a few more volleys?  How about GET OVER IT.  So I picked on your stupid post...what was it..."duh, does bleach make girls stupid?".  Let it go.  Go open a window and look outside or something. 

Look. We can continue on like 2 8 year old's if you'd like.  Why not be a man and PM if you've got water in your panties instead of airing it out here in the public.  Or, you could take some advice and GET OVER IT (there's an echo in here).

[fredster]

Zakk, he was just funnin' ya. Don't get so worked up over it.

After all, it's Canadian politics. I mean who really cares? It's not like it has any impact to anyone

[Zakk]

Eh, I ignored the first couple of barbs.  I just wanted to put a stop to it.  However I guess a guy with 400+ posts in one month is bound to irk some people the wrong way.  I don't mind a conversation or even an argument, but when it gets to name calling, well stand up and be counted.  (I call it 'poking at the bees nest) Next he'll be making fun of this tinfoil hat I wear, or the fact that I can't sleep in a bed that isn't facing 'true north'. 

Oh...wait...hey!  I just caught that!  Canadian politics are very impactful!  Yes, you look up impact in the dictionary, and you'll see a picture of Canadian politics!  What?  Sure impactful is a word! Oh I can't win! 

 

[fredster]

LOL.

He's still just trying to joke with you.

It doesn't matter who is in charge, after a while the whole thing gets into a "good ol boy" system and you have to sweep them out from time to time.

I hope it works out.  Canada is a good partner to everyone it allies with.

I was just joking too.

[Dartful Dodger]

I think this thread was about a Canadian who believes in the ideals of the liberals, but understands the practicality of the conservatives.

c64rulez is just steps away from the spot you are at now, and he's just as confused about the realization as you were.

[Zakk]

I think this thread was about a Canadian who believes in the ideals of the liberals, but understands the practicality of the conservatives.

You know, I'll actually take that at face value, and agree.  Yes, that is exactly the point.  At this point in time anyway.

[c64rulez]

Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity. They seem more afraid of life than death.

[Dartful Dodger]

Too many people are thinking

That's all you needed to say, because that's all you're actually saying.