Would it be cruel for me to get a dog?

[vibez]

Well I think this is my 1st post in EE, so lets make it one of morality.

Ever since I was a kid, I wanted my own dog. My parents were too house proud to ever let me have one.

Now that I have bought my own house, I'm planning on getting my own dog, but I have concerns on whether it would be fair on the dog.

I'm a 25yrs old single guy who lives on his own. I work 8hrs a day & i'm not sure if it would be fair to leave a dog on its own for such a long time.

Some nights I will come home, take it out for a walk, then I will probably be out in the pub for the rest of the night.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it to bits & give it all the attention it needs when i'm in. I wouldn't be like one of those owners who ignores their dogs all the time.

I'm just not totally sure if i'm comfortable with the idea of leaving it alone all day while i'm at work.

Are there any types of dogs that would suit being left on their own for so long during the day?

What do you think guys?

[ChadTower]

Wouldn't be fair to a dog.  Get a cat that won't care.

[shmokes]

I agree with Chad.  Get a cat.  For people who care cats are quite trainable and they're much more self-sufficient than dogs.  A cat will care that you're gone, inasmuch as it will run out to greet you and be excited when you're home, but they seem to handle it much better than dogs.  When you leave for long periods of time, like on holiday, your cats will get revenge on you -- getting into garbages, tearing up the toilet paper, etc.  But on the whole cats don't need us emotionally as much as dogs, I don't think.  You might prefer a dog, but a cat would make a good comprimise that would let you sleep at night.

[ChadTower]

Plus no one calls the cops because your cat gets lonely and barks all day.

[Goz]

Dog's take revenge on you if you neglect them. Cats are more free spirit sorts and are every bit as good of a pet as a dog. We have 3 dogs and 1 cat. The dogs are well looked after and payed attention to as there is always someone home. If the proper attention isn't pay'd to a dog it will destroy everything it can. Dogs are also a bit dirtier. They pee on everything (marking territory or their food). Cats are neat freaks.

My cat greets me at the car when I pull into the drive way. I take walks when I'm stressed out and my cat walks along side of me with no need for a leash.

Don't get me wrong dogs are really cool, but you must spend enough time with them. They are like children. Love them and encourage them and they will thrive. Ignore them and you are screwed.

-Goz

[More Cowbell]

Get two dogs. They'll keep each other company. Plus you might come home to find them playing cards like in that one painting.

[Goz]

It really takes 4 to 5 to have a good poker game. Please adjust the number of required dogs to 5.

[ChadTower]

Yes, two dogs, then you come home to find twice as much damage and two steaming piles on your carpet.

[vibez]

Thanks for the reply guys. All humour aside. The general concensus seems to be that it wouldn't be fair on the dog.

That is a shame. I'm not really a cat person. I have enough of the neighbours cats coming & crapping in my garden, sitting on my driveway.

Are they not any types of dogs that can handle being on their own for 8hrs a day?

[ChadTower]

I'm not sure I follow the logic of disliking animals that crap on stuff and then getting a dog.

Anyway, try another type of pet.  Maybe a ferret?

Get a spider monkey.  It won't crap on everything, just have sex with it.

[vibez]

I don't mind my pet crapping on things, I just dislike other people's animals comming into my yard & crapping everywhere.

How does the old saying go.... Never crap in your own back yard

[ChadTower]

Well if you don't like their cats then get a dog.

Oh wait.

[vibez]

Maybe I should get a girlfriend....


Are they easy to train?

Can I leave them in the yard allday while i'm at work?

Do they crap all over the lawn?

Do they need much attention?

Cheap to own?

[vader]

Well if you don't like their cats then get a dog.

Oh wait.

I was too young to remember it, but my dad used to have a spider monkey and he said it was a cool pet, but he had to get rid of it when one year during Thanksgiving dinner it sat on the couch and just starting whacking off, guess that would ruin the mood.

Cheers,

Tim

[dmsuchy]

Cats suck, if your gone only 8 hours you can get away with a hound, beagle, blood, especially a basset. Hounds sleep up to 20 hours a day in thier prime, and you can kennel them until you feel safe about them. If you feed them twice a day, once in the morning and once when you get home thier bodily functions will settle themselves to poop when you're home. There will be occasional accidents but the overall pleasure of having a buddy can't be compared to. I have a beagle I adopted and although he is never alone for more than 5 hours at a time, I have left him alone for 8 hours without trouble. This is just my opinion, specially bout the cat thing.

[ChadTower]

Not much different than having the horny cocker spaniel try do do your leg...

[markrvp]

Wait until you are married to get a dog.  That way you can take it to your in-laws house at Christmas and it can crap on their expensive Persian rug.   

[c64rulez]

Just get a hotdog. It's cheaper.

[Harry Potter]

Wait until you are married to get a dog.  That way you can take it to your in-laws house at Christmas and it can crap on their expensive Persian rug.   

Don't need a dog to do that. Just heaps of beer to wash away any self-dignity.

[dmsuchy]

Vibez, check out bluebonnetbeagles.org, these are rescued beagles needing to be adopted for free. I just checked on my beagle and he has been sleeping on a mexican blanket from the time I first read your post till now, bout 3.5 hours. I'm sure he'll be good for another hour, than hell turn around twice and sleep for another 3 hours.

[ChadTower]

What a life.

[Luxury]

You say you have a house.  Does this mean you have a yard?  Does this yard have a fence around it?

A poster above stated getting a basset.  My friend has 2 of these in his apartment, and they are pretty good apartment dogs, so they should be good house dogs too.  He used to have 1, and that was pretty good, but then when he got a second, they could keep each other company all day, so I do think that is a good option.  He walks them in the morning, works all day, comes home, walks them again, and then can leave again for the night, to walk them a 3rd time when he gets home late.  They bark for about a minute every time he leaves, but then get bored and probably sleep. 

I really want to get a dog too, but I've always stated that I never would until I get a house with a yard.  But the kind of dog I want isn't really an inside all day kinda dog anyways. 

[DrewKaree]

It's not a matter of you being gone for only 8 hours.  You're only looking at that as the major portion of time you'll be gone.  You've completely disregarded (is that a word?) your own statement that you'll be gone for MORE than that amount at times, and if something ELSE comes into your life, like a girlfriend (cats are easier to train than a girlfriend, and I'm pretty sure if the girlfriend craps on the carpet, you'll want to get rid of her ), you'll have one more thing that'll be taking you away from the responsibility of providing for a dog. 

Dogs are pack animals, even lazy-ass beagles.  You are the other "dog" in their pack.  If you're gone for large chunks of time, walking the dog for a half-hour or so and then leaving AGAIN is doing the bare minimum, IMO, and is a recipe for getting something pissed on to extract some revenge.  If you don't like cats, then scrap the idea to get a pet altogether. 

Your own words hint at you not being able to make the time investment.

I'm a 25yrs old single guy who lives on his own. I work 8hrs a day


Some nights I will come home, take it out for a walk, then I will probably be out in the pub for the rest of the night.

[markrvp]

You say you have a house.

[Sephroth57]

the 8hrs isnt too bad if you knew you were going to be home after work all the time but in reality your not. my dog was alone from like 8-3 during the day everyday and was fine cause at least 1 person was always home after that but in your case living alone it would be different. i vote for a cat too but i love cats as much as i love dogs but i know some people just like dogs better

[Daniel270]

Another possibility would be some sort of rodent pet... a hamster, gerbil, or guinea pig (if you can stand the smell).  As long as the cage is kept clean, water is fresh and a healthy supply of food, they're easy pets to maintain and don't require your attention 24/7.  The average lifespan is between 2 - 4 years for a hamster (I've had 3) and they're not expensive to keep.

[c64rulez]

This option is very handy. Instead of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, you get #10 screws.

[shmokes]

Actually, that's not a bad idea.  It's honestly not a replacement entirely, but the Sony Aibos are starting to get pretty damned impressive if you don't mind spending $1500 to buy a pet.  Really that's not as expensive as it sounds depending on what kind of dog you planned to get.  My sister has a couple of Great Danes and in addition to being expensive dogs to begin with, they cost a fortune to feed.  Not to mention that the first time your dog eats/scratches a hole in your $600 sofa you're halfway toward paying for an Aibo.

Aibos learn and adjust their behavior based on the kind of treatment they get.  They learn to recognize the face and voice of various people including their owners and they respond to all kinds of stimuli including voice commands and petting and swating, etc.

They are obviously still not as advanced as a real, live, flesh-and-blood dog, but there are advantages to that.  They don't try to escape.  They don't know how to poo or pee.  They feed themselves (meaning that when they are low on batteries they will go take a nap on their recharging station).  They also have some pretty cool watchdog features.  For example, since they have built-in wifi, you can access the webcam that is built into their heads from work and you can send commands to them through a web interface.  A border collie won't do that!

Alternatively you could just get a lava lamp. 

[Harry Potter]

Or rent Lassie come home.

[Ed_McCarron]

One of our dogs died about 6 months or so ago, and we finally had to get a puppy to keep the remaining one company.

Granted, we have a Golden Retriever - that dog can't stand to be alone for more than 3 seconds.

We also have a cockatiel.  Pet with a 20+ year lifespan.  My wife wanted a parrot, but I refused to get a pet that had to be provided for in my will.

[ChadTower]

They are obviously still not as advanced as a real, live, flesh-and-blood dog,

Okay, the implications of this statement make my head explode, repair itself, then explode again.

Everyone keeps saying stuff like "yeah, if you're only gone 8 hours, then come back and walk it, it won't kill your neighbors".  Well, sure, it may not go Godzilla on your block, but will it be happy all alone all day?

[Ed_McCarron]

Well, sure, it may not go Godzilla on your block, but will it be happy all alone all day?

Chad has a point.  Dogs are pack animals by nature.  They look to you as alpha, and expect you to be there to make decisions for them.

Every time it thunders, I have 2 dogs in my lap (both ~ 100 lbs) because I'm thier pack leader.

Dogs do not like to be alone.  They do have redeeming qualities, tho.  My wifes parents have cats.  When I go over there and try to pet one, I get the kitty equivalent of the middle finger.  They really have no interest.

My dogs, OTOH, go ballistic when I come home (my wife is home all day) - as if its the best thing thats happened all day.  Great for the ego.

We go away for the weekend, we need to drop the dogs off at a dogsitter or kennel.  Cats will survive fine for a weekend on their own.

Each has its perks.

[ChadTower]

[Ed_McCarron]

You're lucky the cats don't pack their bags and move out.

Au contraire - I'd be lucky if the cats DID move out.

I have as much tolerance for cats as they have for me.

[dmsuchy]

Get a dog, put in a dog door, make the dog get a paper route and BAM extra cash for the house hold.

[RayB]

Crap. I meant to click YES but I clicked NO. Just for the record, the voting results are off by at least one.

NO don't get a dog. It will howl and have so much seperation anxiety it won't be funny.

[cdbrown]

Get a dog, I have one and I work like you.  As long as you've got reasonable space in your backyard for the dog to run around and some toys to play it'll be fine. 

Cats are too arrogant for my liking.

[Nailz]

Sounds to me like you want to play with someone elses dog when it's convenient and go home.  Don't take that as a slam, I am one of those guys too.  Dogs are great when they belong to someone else.

It's not fair to an animal to be gone all day, come home, say hi, walk it, then bail again.

My neighbor just did this, he got a divorce and thought it was a genius idea to get himself a little buddy because he was lonely.  He works 10 hour days, leaves the dog alone and the dog can be heard crying all day long.  What an incredibly horrible thing to do another living thing.  Dogs need love, and tons of it, they are like children.

Do yourself a favor and find a friend with a dog to get your fix, they are a ton of fun, and you can still go out drinking with your friends.  Buying a dog with your schedule and desire to have a nightlife as well would just make you a selfish jerk.

[mccoy178]

I would think in theory that owning a dog would be cruel no matter what the situation, unless you're a freak about it and kiss the dogs ass all day.  But that is not the common thought process.  I think there are plenty of dogs that could survive the day without you around.  Think about it; you get a dog that expects the same thing over and over again day after day, then one day a couple years from now, you get married and bam! the dog thinks it has retired and gone to heaven.  Twice the attention and possibly at more hours.  I wouldn't sweat the load about getting a dog.  I think the bigger issue is if you treat it properly once you get it.  I know plenty of people who have dogs that don't deserve the right to have one.  If you absolutely love the dog and treat it humanely, it will love you.  A puppy wouldn't know what a life full of all day attention was like and probably wouldn't mind.

[duffjr]

yea, when i think of all the people who own dogs, few give the necessary amount of attention.  dog breeds differ greatly on average, and then dogs can differ even more individually.  your best bet would be to find a dog that likes being alone most of the time even when you are there and doesn't care about attention.  there are also dogs that will play with anything and dogs that will only play with other playful dogs, so the dogs' interests have to match.  they can play with a variety of sizes of dogs, but you have to watch out for how worn out the smaller or fatter dog will be if it's forced to play all the time (i took my 30-lb dog to play with a 100-lb retriever, and after 5 minutes it was running for its life).  i know old dogs usually sleep most of the time.  adopt a dog from a kennel that's at least 10 years old if you can handle paying for whatever meds it needs.  i had a couple chows that always went to sleep, even when i was petting them.  they did love their walks though.  now i have a lab mix that demands attention 90% of the time when he's not sleeping, which he does for most of the day on my lap.

[vibez]

Wow i'm impressed by the responses here.

I'm still in two minds as to whether I would make a good dog owner.

Yes I have a yard surrounded by 10ft fences all the way round. (heterosexual) The previous owners even converted the shed into a kennel with a heater inside.

I will be away for 8hrs a day, but I always pop home for half hour during my dinner, so I could take him for a quick walk during that time.

I was talking to my parents about my idea. My dad thought it would be a good idea & even offered to walk the dog everyday while i'm at work. I know they would also look after the dog if I went away on holiday.

To be honest there won't be many nights during the week that I can't spend my free time with the dog. I only go out maybe one night during the working week to play pool and at the weekends i'm mostly at home during the day.

The one big bugbear I can't stand, is knowing the dog will be at home barking or whining while i'm at work. Our old neighbours used to leave their doberman alone allday & night. It was heartbreaking hearing it cry all the time.

If I got a puppy, maybe that would be fairer as it would learn from an early age to cope with being left for such a long time. Although that in itself could be classed as cruel. Puppy's need a lot of attention & training when they are young & if I'm leaving it alone while I'm at work, who knows what kind of effect that could have.

Another problem could be that I watched a few programs on dog training. They used a reward & punish method. Basically if the dog behaves well, give him a treat/love/attention. If the dag behaves bad, take away love/attention. Now if I use that method of training, what kind of message does it give to the dog if I leave it on its own for 8hrs.

I think the best bet would be, If l pop down to one of our local dog rescue homes in the UK and have a chat with the people down there & see what they think. By the sounds of it, beagles or hounds would be the best breed for me.

[Santoro]

We have two dogs (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels) and they can make it eight hours every so often if we need to take a day trip.  I believe that leaving them every day would be pretty unfair, they really do thrive on attention and companionship.   

[ChadTower]

I tell you what.  Take a couple of weeks and put yourself in solitary confinement for 10 hours each day, where you're not allowed to touch anything, have limited food that's been sitting out for hours, and can't urinate or crap.

That is what the dog will experience.

[duffjr]

is a dog self-aware?

[ChadTower]

Erm, yes, a dog is self aware.

[vibez]

I tell you what.  Take a couple of weeks and put yourself in solitary confinement for 10 hours each day, where you're not allowed to touch anything, have limited food that's been sitting out for hours, and can't urinate or crap.

That is what the dog will experience.

So from that statement, I have concluded that the dog will experience the same miserable existance as I do at my workplace.

That seals the deal for me. There is no way I would let a dog go through what I go through at work.

Cheers guys 

[Santoro]

I tell you what. Take a couple of weeks and put yourself in solitary confinement for 10 hours each day, where you're not allowed to touch anything, have limited food that's been sitting out for hours, and can't urinate or crap.

That is what the dog will experience.

You are quoting the worst case though.

[vibez]

I do agree that there isn't much point for owning a dog if you are only going to see it a few hours a day.

I think that is the main point. The dog will rely on only me for company. I'm not willing to own two dogs. My dad did offer to walk it maybe twice a day. But he is getting old, will he be willing to do it in say 5yrs?

I'm at the age where my life isn't exactly stable. I'm fairly sure my life will change dramatically over the next few years. Maybe I should wait until I'm married & settled down before I rescue a pup.

[Santoro]

I'm not willing to own two dogs.

IMHO owning two small calm dogs is easier than owning any big dog.

[RayB]

Look bottom line is you need to let them out for a piss at least every 4 to 6 hours. That severely restricts what you can and can't do. Hell, you won't even be able to ever go home with a woman for the night, or pass out at a friend's place anymore.

It's nice that your dad offered to walk it, but after a while that's going to feel like a "job" to him. It's the type of thing that HAS to be done every day, for the rest of the dog's life.

I own one of the most easy-going, laid back dogs in the world. She sleeps all day and rarely wants my attention. I work from home. But if we should happen to go out somewhere on the weekend for a few hours, we come home to find her crying and chewing up furniture. So even with a good temperment, dogs need to "know" they are not alone.

**you just posted as I was writing this...**

[vibez]

Yeah that definitely settles it. I want a dog that fits round my life, not the other way round. That is all wrong. As you have mentioned, the dogs must come 1st.

Jesus, if I put this much thought into having a dog, imagine what I will be like when I consider kids!1!!!

[Santoro]

I my experience kids can go 8 hours without food, water, companionship, or bathrooms.

Just Kidding People, Relax

[DrewKaree]

Just Kidding People, Relax 

Good disclaimer.  I was about to bash you for that comment.  Mine have gone WAY longer than 8 hours!

[Harry Potter]

I my experience kids can go 8 hours without food, water, companionship, or bathrooms.

Just Kidding People, Relax 

Tried and tested.

Go for it.

[ChadTower]

I my experience kids can go 8 hours without food, water, companionship, or bathrooms.

That's what school is for...

[shmokes]

They are obviously still not as advanced as a real, live, flesh-and-blood dog,

Okay, the implications of this statement make my head explode, repair itself, then explode again.

Everyone keeps saying stuff like "yeah, if you're only gone 8 hours, then come back and walk it, it won't kill your neighbors".  Well, sure, it may not go Godzilla on your block, but will it be happy all alone all day?

I'm totally lost here.  I honestly cannot fathom how your response relates to my post.  The whole point of my post was that getting an Aibo (a $1500 robot dog) would give him some of the benefits of having a dog and relinquish him from worries about his pet becoming depressed or unhappy after being left alone for 8-hours.

[RayB]

Robosapien is cheaper.

[dmsuchy]

Find a dog that hates you and it will be happy when you are not at home!

[duffjr]

or a dog that's so old it's lost its olfactory and doesn't have enough strength to lift its head to care who is around

you should go to the pound and get one of those mean dogs that is likely to be beat by a mean owner.  get all of them while you're at it.  then buy a couple of pos cars, so the dogs have somewhere to sleep in the backyard.

[whammoed]

Hmmm, I have a 13 year old dalmation.  All she does is sleep and fart and snore.  Want her?

[ChadTower]

I'm totally lost here.  I honestly cannot fathom how your response relates to my post.  The whole point of my post was that getting an Aibo (a $1500 robot dog) would give him some of the benefits of having a dog and relinquish him from worries about his pet becoming depressed or unhappy after being left alone for 8-hours.

The concept that you would compare a technological feature to a living being is scary.  I suppose it's coming, but living beings don't have "features".  You can't say that the AIBO is "almost as advanced as a real dog" because a real dog is not advanced, it is a real blipping dog.

[shmokes]

Well...now, "almost as advanced" is an uncharitable way of intereting, "obviously still not as advanced," but I think you're reading into my post.  The fact the dog has real emotions that could be hurt by someone who doesn't have sufficient amount of time to spend with it is exactly what makes me suggest an Aibo.  I suggested the Aibo, not because I consider technology a perfectly good replacement for living beings (though it is, of course, in many situations), but because I care about the living beings.

Judging by your position in this thread, I'm pretty sure that in your heart of hearts you also support him getting an Aibo over a real dog.

[dmsuchy]

Just get a dog, with your family close and willing to help you out this is a no brainer. A dog that gets to see you a couple times a day is better off than being stuck at a animal testing facility.

[ChadTower]

Judging by your position in this thread, I'm pretty sure that in your heart of hearts you also support him getting an Aibo over a real dog.

If he spent $1500 on a little mechanical dog I'd drive over there and insert it in him.

[duffjr]

and you won't look weird in front of the neighbors if you're into any kinky animal games.

[ChadTower]

That's not kinky it's violent.

[Stingray]

Amazing. Most people here seem to think that if you have a job you don't have time for a pet. Nonsense.

I agree with the suggestion about getting two. They'll keep themselves company, and when you're around, that's a bonus.

-S

[duffjr]

get 4 as goz suggested.  they can form their own pack and way of life.