for the thousandth time (front end question)

[clok]

Sorry for the OLD OLD rehash question. Im not looking for a "YES THIS IS BEST" thing, just wondering a few things for you guys that have tried alot of front ends.

Im currently using ARCADE@Home and it works ok, but has a few things i do not like. Anybody tell me a few front ends that support the following:

Scroll through games with joystick (A@H requires a joystick push for each game, much to much work to scroll from a-z)

Groups games by type (fighter, shooters, possibley, all rollerball games, all stearing games, etc..)

Sublists CLONES (like MAME32)

DOES NOT FUZZ THE GAMES UP! (I would use the WIndows GUI mame32, but i hate the fuzzed graphics and cant seem to turn it off)

Shows Screenshots

Lets you set options for each game.

I have been thinking of Lazarus but (no offence to maker, have heard it takes some work to set up, which isnt a problem, if it does the above stuff) anybody know? The joystick game scrolling and the fuzzy graphics are my main things.


OH im running XP so that rules out Arcade OS (correct?).

Thanks and sorry, this isnt ment to start any "this frontend is best" stuff, just wondering which frontends do what im looking for.

Clok

[Odonadon]

Hmm... I think ArcadeOS does everything you listed except sublist clones and group game by class.

Scroll through games with joystick (A@H requires a joystick push for each game, much to much work to scroll from a-z)

Hit left/right to do sort of a page up/page down thing.

Shows Screenshots

ArcadeOS shows screenshots, doesn't it?

Lets you set options for each game.

Yup, ArcadeOS does this too.  Hit player2 start when a game is highlighted to get the options for that game.

And I'm pretty sure ArcadeOS runs on WinXP

Odonadon

[eightbit]

What type of interface are you using? If your using an ipac plugged into PS/2 thats why it won't scroll when you hold the stick. Key repeat is turned off. Its been reported that if you plug in the ipac with the USB adapter then the key repeat isn't turned off and you can scroll the list by holding the joystick. You can also reprogram your ipac so that you have page up/down buttons or program it to shift to access those buttons.

The soon to be released keywiz, http://www.groovygamegear.com, will also do this. It has key repeat enabled so you can scroll the list by holding the stick, also in its default program you can hold the shift and page up/down with player 1 buttons 3/4.

I don't know about other front ends but if you use mame32 as a front end and put it in list view you can do a whole screen worth of names at a time by going right and left with the stick, which is even faster than page up/down. If you hold the stick you can move through all 3500 roms in a hurry.

Mame 32 shows screenshots.

Which game options are you talking about?  Mame can set configuration options for all games independant of the front end.

Mame32 can sublist clones and list by class.

Mame32 gets a bad rap because it looks to much like Windows. Whats wrong with that if it works? Its also intuitive and almost needs no configuration.

[clok]

Thanks for quick responces, and Sorry about posting in wrong forum (see there is one for software, move when ya have time MOD).

Frist, I had heard Arcade OS didnt work with XP, Im guessing that was becuase of DOSMAME not the frontend (should have thought about it more).

I have a Hagstrom 72T for my interface.

Currently with Arcade@Home and DosMame.63 (Yes m going to switch soon) Pushing the Joystick left or right does skip games but not in any order that i can tell.

Im doing some much needed finishing work on my cab (about time over year since i could play on it, and once that happened...i sorta forgot to do all the other little things to finish it up). Im switching to XP (currently 98), putting a 2400XP in (currently a Duron 800) and adding 256Ram (currently 128) and putting in a 120GB HD (currently 10GB), those DAPHNE MPEGS and HD Images have forced me to do some rethinking. I also have a TON of other EMU's that i want to put in the machine (enough to make the 120 drive seem small) soon it wont be a MAME only box, it will be JukeBox/ANY system under the sun Box.

This is one of the reasons i was looking at Lazurus (and still am).

I currently have a Keyboard sitting on top my machine to scroll games and want to get rid of it. And the screen Blur/Fuzz whatever its called with the Win versions of mame Bugs the crap out of me since I use a computer monitor for display (guess that question really doenst hinge on the frontend, more the version of MAME im running) DosMame deosnt do it. Is there a way to turn this off in the WinMame versions?

So is there a way to trun keyrepeat back on? for Scrolling?

Screenshots (well I guess pretty much all of do this, but added it to my list cus it is must have)

Options (another thing pretty much all do, but also a must have)

Im currently looking at Mame32Plus and it seems to do all i want except the SCREEN BLUR! I may have to stick to Dos Mame so I dont get that (then NO XP, which I can live with if I have to).

again thanks for the help and Info

Clok

http://clok1.tripod.com/arcade.html

[zirk]

I find gamelauncher to fit my needs very good.
Nice, friendly letters, screenshots etc.

Has it drawbacks, though. I would prefere being able having 'small' snapshots.

You scroll games with joystick, and select with '1P' Further, it is a project in itself to set it up the way you want. I removed all generic 'list all roms', and make my own list of just the games I actually play. You can set individual settings for each game. I use mame32 for finding 'new' games to add to the list.

So, a lot of work, but in the end, I get just what I want, and still have all MAME roms. You have different 'pages' for each emulator, but this can easily be used to categorize the games in CP (if you have multiple) or genre. A few hundred roms are enough for me, so I dont bother (yet)

As a bonus, you can use it to launch all other command-line based emulators (or other software), such as Daphne.

I tried a couple of other loaders, but anything that contains a window with icons is not for me.

[eightbit]

Key repeat being disabled is probably a feature of you encoder. You would have to check with hagstrom if you can turn it back on. If thats not an option you could always remap 2 of your buttons to page up and down.

What is this mame32plus that you speak of? Is it different than mame32?

[clok]

get alot of mame info at WWW.MAMEWORLD.NET

as for MAME32Plus you can read about it here
http://emu.xaonline.com/host/mameplus/

it is sorta a do all mame32 version (autofire, etc..) and some driver fixes/hacks, whatever you want to call um, such as better sound drivers on some things etc... Mame trasnlated into toehr languages.

It is really just MAME32 with some added stuff, from what I see it is just a recompiled version of MAME32.

WARNING its not documented very well, use at OWN RISK  

Clok

[Smack]

Have you tried Advance Menu? Once you get it set up, I find it to be mint.

Pretty configurable in all areas and I think you can sort by game type. (I don't have it set up that way with mine, but I recall seeing parameters for that stuff in the config file.)

As far as setting options for each game, I do that via an ini file for each game I want to tweak (ie: rotate, not rotate for example.)

My 2 cents.

Word.
Smack

[Minwah]

Clok:  I think the 'fuzzed' graphics you refer to is because you have hardware stretch turned on.  Use Windows MAME (not MAME32) and set the'hwstretch' part to '0' in your MAME.INI file.  Do a 'MAME -cc' if you do not already have a MAME.INI.  I agree, hardware stretch sucks  

You could give my fe MAMEWAH a try if you like...I think it fits all your needs except the settings for each game - you'd have to do this using .INI files.  I have got round the key repeat problem though, plus you can move 1 page at a time using left/right, and 100 or 500 games at a time using the P2 stick.

I'd give all the FE's in the software section a go to see which you like best

[SirPoonga]

Though hardware stretching allows the game to be presented how it was presented in the arcade:)

[Sasquatch!]

Though hardware stretching allows the game to be presented how it was presented in the arcade:)

Huh?  Maybe it's because I have a mediocre video card (ATI All-in-Wonder 8MB PCI), but hardware stretching makes my games look like ass.

[Minwah]

Though hardware stretching allows the game to be presented how it was presented in the arcade:)

I have to disagree on this one...OK so it fills the screen better but it looks as though your looking through someone else's 'milk bottle' style glasses.  I've never seen that in an arcade!

[SirPoonga]

Though hardware stretching allows the game to be presented how it was presented in the arcade:)

I have to disagree on this one...OK so it fills the screen better but it looks as though your looking through someone else's 'milk bottle' style glasses.  I've never seen that in an arcade!

You want to see it?  Borrow a battletoads pcb:)  Then get the rom:)  Now run it in hardware stretch and not in hardware stretch.  Notice when stretch is off it look like letterbox?  BUT the game was shown on a standard arcade monitor.  Hmmm, guess what, the game did hardware stretching!

The majority of the vertical shooters are like this too.  You may notice with some vertical shooter when stretch is off they are very wide.  Again, the game did stretch to work on an arcade monitor.

Now, do the graphics look pixelated?  (blocky)  I bet you are looking at them on a PC monitor, huh?  Now, go put them on an arcade monitor that smooths things out.  Wow, doesn't that look nice:)

You gotta remember you are running these games on hardware it was not intended for.

[Minwah]

Though hardware stretching allows the game to be presented how it was presented in the arcade:)

I have to disagree on this one...OK so it fills the screen better but it looks as though your looking through someone else's 'milk bottle' style glasses.  I've never seen that in an arcade!

You want to see it?  Borrow a battletoads pcb:)  Then get the rom:)  Now run it in hardware stretch and not in hardware stretch.  Notice when stretch is off it look like letterbox?  BUT the game was shown on a standard arcade monitor.  Hmmm, guess what, the game did hardware stretching!

The majority of the vertical shooters are like this too.  You may notice with some vertical shooter when stretch is off they are very wide.  Again, the game did stretch to work on an arcade monitor.

Now, do the graphics look pixelated?  (blocky)  I bet you are looking at them on a PC monitor, huh?  Now, go put them on an arcade monitor that smooths things out.  Wow, doesn't that look nice:)

You gotta remember you are running these games on hardware it was not intended for.

OK I see, I take it back somewhat...I wasn't aware that hwstretching was fairly common in arcade games - I guess I haven't played any/many that do it.  And yes atm I use a PC monitor so I'm sure it looks worse than it should do.

BUT I also own a Galaga cocktail so I know exactly how it looks, and no matter what screen you see that on in MAME with hwstretch it is REALLY BAD!  You must agree with that surely??!!  And IMO this probably applies to more MAME'd games than not.

Following on tho, is there any way of knowing if a game should use hwstretch?  I mean sure I'll use it if the original did!  

[SirPoonga]

Hmmm, not sure how you can tell other than the resolution in mame is not in the aspect ratio of the game.


As for galaga, I just tried it.  I didn't see a difference in hwstretch and no hwstretch for that game.

[Minwah]

Hmmm, not sure how you can tell other than the resolution in mame is not in the aspect ratio of the game.

As for galaga, I just tried it.  I didn't see a difference in hwstretch and no hwstretch for that game.

OK well maybe your video card does something different to mine (Radeon).  It goes smooth (less pixely) but real blurry on my system at least.  I accept that without hwstrech it's not exactly arcade perfect either on a PC screen, but with scanlines it's not too bad.  I think I got it running most 'real' using AdvMAME and one of the filters.

(Damn I was determined to get you to agree on 1 game at least!)

[SirPoonga]

Hmm, I have an ATI 128

[Howard_Casto]

Just to interject.. there isn't a single game that uses hardware stretch in the arcades.  Now the horizontal and vertical area is adjusted (like you can do on your computer monitor) but that's not hardware stretch.  

Also battletoads had a letterboxed ratio in the arcades, as did all capcom games made after 1991 and several other games.  Unfortunately this was an adjustment that's made at the monitor and several operators (no offense) weren't familiar enough with teh games to realize that they were adjusting the picture to fill the whole monitor (which is the right thing to do on several games)  and ruined the aspect ratio that the games are supposed to be in.  

Hardware stretch has a bug about using the proper ratio, many people think it's not a bug (there is much debate over the "proper" aspect ratios with the mame devs)  but it is indeed a bug.  How to I know?  Because when capcom and other company's released screenshots of thier arcade games they were in letterbox format, unlike at some arcades where they were improperly adjusted.  

So they are debating and each have a vaild point as you could actually see them both ways in teh arcades.  Unfortunately those who have seen the stretched one's have just been denied a proper picture in their arcade experiences.  My local arcade was run by a capcom fan, and thus the aspect ratios were always correct.  

But that's not the issue.... That "fuzz" as you call it is made by your video card.  Btw I'm assuming you are using a pc monitor.  Well what did you expect then?  The only way arcade games look accurate is if they are viewed on a tv or arcade monitor.  You don't see the "fuzz" on those displays and actually some blurring on a pc monitor makes it look more accurate as it gets rid of some of the pixelization.  

[x-wing]

HC is 100% right on this.

Hardware stretch has no meaning in regard to arcade pcbs.  They did not work in this way.  Hardware stretch is a result of a pc video card gpu's ability to manipulate & render graphics.  Arcade pcb's actually have a direct graphics "map" that was read from the board and displayed on the monitor.  I'm not nearly as eloquent as Andy W in describing this, but if any of you have been following his new video card threads, then you know what I'm talking about.

SirPoonga, I would bet that the Battletoads you were used to seeing had the monitor out of adjustment, just like HC said.

[clok]

"But that's not the issue.... That "fuzz" as you call it is made by your video card.  Btw I'm assuming you are using a pc monitor.  Well what did you expect then?  The only way arcade games look accurate is if they are viewed on a tv or arcade monitor.  You don't see the "fuzz" on those displays and actually some blurring on a pc monitor makes it look more accurate as it gets rid of some of the pixelization.  "

Yes im using a 21 Veiwsonic P180 (much too good of a monitor for the res  vid games run in), and yes I plan on putting a 25 TV in "SOMEDAY" hehehe.

Where Im running into my problem (and also why im talking frontends) is Im running DOS MAME .63 and getting ready to Update (frontend and newest version of mame, was hopeing to put XP on my machine but it appears that may not be an option becuase of DOS MAME?) and DOS MAME doesn not have this "FUZZ", so far it appears this is a WinMAME feature, I was hopeing it was something I could turn off.
On a TV im sure this will look great, but till i get one, i prefer the Sharp as a razor picture.

I guess I need to try some stuff, but chancign an OS and finding Ineed to swap back is a pain, and sicne this is a CAB i dont have a Keyboard hooked up so it makes trying stuff a pain in the BUTT!

thanks again for all the info guys

Clok

[Minwah]

I'm sure the 'fuzz' is caused by the hardware stretch in Windows MAME - it is on by default, but you CAN turn it OFF!

So don't rule out Windows MAME for that reason

[SirPoonga]

Also battletoads had a letterboxed ratio in the arcades, as did all capcom games made after 1991 and several other games.  Unfortunately this was an adjustment that's made at the monitor and several operators (no offense) weren't familiar enough with teh games to realize that they were adjusting the picture to fill the whole monitor (which is the right thing to do on several games)  and ruined the aspect ratio that the games are supposed to be in.  

I know I hate arguing with you about this.  But battletoads in the arcades was also shown in normal.  You said you saw a prototype that used letterbox.  plus ever play battletoads in mame with no stretch.  The text is squished, like it was meant to be stretched.

[Howard_Casto]

Also battletoads had a letterboxed ratio in the arcades, as did all capcom games made after 1991 and several other games.  Unfortunately this was an adjustment that's made at the monitor and several operators (no offense) weren't familiar enough with teh games to realize that they were adjusting the picture to fill the whole monitor (which is the right thing to do on several games)  and ruined the aspect ratio that the games are supposed to be in.  

I know I hate arguing with you about this.  But battletoads in the arcades was also shown in normal.  You said you saw a prototype that used letterbox.  plus ever play battletoads in mame with no stretch.  The text is squished, like it was meant to be stretched.

Your only half right.  The monitor is adjusted for battle toads, but it's adjusted to capcom aspect ratios which are slightly taller.  The monitor is adjusted for several games, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you adjust it to the full limits of the screen(which is what hardware stretch incorrectly does).  This was done in battle toads to make the sprites smaller and save memory from what I understand, but the true reason is unknown.  Battletoads is a bad example for this discussion as it's the exception to the rule.