CoinDrop v1.3 Released - Now you can insert coins from your front-end!

[headkaze]

CoinDrop v1.3 By Headkaze
=========================

-= DESCRIPTION =-

This program will allow you to send coin drops to Mame from within your front-end. It runs in the background using a very small amount of CPU. When it detects a coin drop it will play a sound effect and store the amount of coins in memory. When you start Mame you can press the start keys and a credit is automatically registerd and starts the game. Dropping coins outside of Mame means you can carry over credits to multiple games.

-= FAQ =-

1. How do I set this thing up on my cab?

Just extract the folder to somewhere on your machine and create a link to CoinDrop.exe on bootup.

2. Where can I change the key settings?

Just open CoinDrop.ini in notepad and follow the instructions.

-= VERSION HISTORY =-

Version 1.3 (13-01-2006) : Now you can carry over credits inserted in Mame
Version 1.2 (12-01-2006) : WhiteList/BlackList added. Now you can say when coindrop is allowed to register credits
Version 1.1 (25-12-2005) : You now press the Start keys to drop coins and can now carry on credits to multiple games.
Version 1.0 (24-12-2005) : First Release

-----------------------------------------------

TERMS OF USE: This program is illegal to use in a commercial setting. If this program is found on a machine in a commericial environment you will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Download Removed This download has been removed. To get a copy you must IM me with a link to your project page.

[Necro]

Downloaded!   Even though I don't have a cab, would be cool to use later.

Only thing, I know Atomic removed this functionality for some reason, does this break some MAME license/whatever thing?

Wasn't sure...just curious.  I personally think it's a great idea!

[Crazy Cooter]

TERRIBLE IDEA...

TERRIBLE IDEA...

TERRIBLE IDEA...

TERRIBLE IDEA...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=31713.0

[brophog]

So you think it's a bad idea, Crazy Cooter?

[Roughy]

TERRIBLE IDEA...

TERRIBLE IDEA...

TERRIBLE IDEA...

TERRIBLE IDEA...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=31713.0

Funny thing about terrible ideas about functionality:

That typically means that someone has an opinion.

Which typically means that someone has a difference of opinion.

Which means that the idea is probably good to provide as an option, so if someone doesn't like it, they just don't download it.

However, I'd be very interested in understanding WHY you think it's a terrible idea without having to go through that entire thread.  Any summary?

[Necro]

I think basically the issue is that it lets people use MAME cabinets in a commercial sense (since it can track coin inserts in the front end, you can have the thing sitting in a arcade/etc. and correctly track coin inserts all the time, etc.).

Don't let people get in your face about it though.  You wrote something to help others, and people will appreciate it.

[Roughy]

I think basically the issue is that it lets people use MAME cabinets in a commercial sense (since it can track coin inserts in the front end, you can have the thing sitting in a arcade/etc. and correctly track coin inserts all the time, etc.).

Don't let people get in your face about it though.

[headkaze]

Just because you see a way someone could exploit something doesn't make it bad. The old saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" comes to mind. That's all I will say on the matter.

Basically, I would like a bit more feedback (if possible) on any problems, or bugs. Also any ideas on how to improve it would be nice. Don't be put off by all the people who bag it because their afraid of the bootleg boogieman.

Finally, I was hoping people could post some cool coin drop wav sounds.

[headkaze]

If there is enough people who agree this program should not be released, I will remove it just let me know. I'm not about encouraging bootleg machines, and I'm not about upsetting a community who I respect. If the feature was removed from Atomic FE, then perhaps I should follow suit. It seems to me (after reading the lengthy post) that there is a great amount of distaste for such a program. Since my intentions are far removed from this sort of behaviour I would like to do the right thing by the community and take this opinon on board. How should I go about making a decision? Who's opinon should I trust? Please post your thoughts and I will remove this program if I believe it to be the right thing to do.

[BobA]

It sounds like a good program for cab builders.  Now if cab builders want to  use it for parties or for their regular use it can probably be used by them but not be those with commercial desires if you put a time limit in it.   Run for a period of time and then loose the coin amounts or stop running.  Not sure what would be most effective but an anoyance would be enough to not have someone try to use it for commercial purposes.

[sharkus]

This is an excellent idea!  I use tokens exclusively, not for commercial purposes, but to limit the amount of games that my kids play.  We also use the tokens as a positive reward system.

Side Note: not releasing software because someone might do something illegal with it is just plain silly.  If software was not released because it COULD BE used for illegal purposes we wouldn't have much software on our computers (including MAME, winamp, bittorrent, etc).

-Sharkus

[youki]

You are the DEVIL!!!

You will kill MAME  and the arcade in general!!!

That's in summary what i heard when i introduced this feature in my Atomic FE....

I'm suprise there is ony few answer to this post...  Christmas , i suppose..

[RayB]

Basically that thread said that:

1. Such a feature enables commercial use of MAME.

2. That's bad because MAME prohibits commercial use of its software.

3. That's bad because there are alot of unethical people out there who will use it for commercial purposes anyways.

4. There are alot of people who will use it for commercial purposes with illegal roms.

5. (coming full circle here) MAME will get blamed for it all.

6. MAME would then be targetted in the same way Napster was in the 90's. Napster had legitimate uses, but it's gone now (talking about the original Napster, not the rebranded music-store Napster).

Then we all lose.

[loadman]

Here is a WAV I am using... It's a sample of a coin being dropped into my cab.....SPOOKY!

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/backwash/mamewav.WAV

[mahuti]

tornado in a teacup.

[DreamWeb]

This is excellent!  Thank you for your hard work!

[brian23]

Good job. I consider this program a novelty.. nothing more.

[brophog]

Basically that thread said that:

1. Such a feature enables commercial use of MAME.

Of course it does. So does putting a normal front end in a cabinet and inserting coins to play the games rather than putting a coin in to select the game in the front end. This doesnt make it any easier to make MAME commercial than MAME itself already does.

From a practical sense, there is no difference either way because both ensure that you cannot PLAY the game without first inserting money.

[markrvp]

Without trying to add gas to the fire,

has anyone actually ever seen a MAME arcade machine running a multigame FrontEnd in a commercial setting that requires money to play?

I don't doubt for a minute that there are some dedicated cabs that are running MAME to simply play one game (for example an op might have a Tempest cab with a broken XY monitor, so he put in a VGA monitor and is using MAME to run Tempest).

[RayB]

Without trying to add gas to the fire,

has anyone actually ever seen a MAME arcade machine running a multigame FrontEnd in a commercial setting that requires money to play?

Isn't that like asking if anyone has seen a car, while the combustion engine was still being invented?

(BTW, what I listed above was a CHAIN OF EVENTS. Not individual arguments against. You have to consider the scenario based on the chain of events.)

[SirPoonga]

Isn't that like asking if anyone has seen a car, while the combustion engine was still being invented?

People have reported seeing commercial mame machines on ebay and at local places.

Personally I don't see the need for a program like this.  If you loose credits switching games just add more.  It's not like it costs you anything.

Well, if you use tokens to limit play for kids then I guess the kid will loose credits.  BUT without a program like this it teaches the kid patience and making the right decision on when to use a token.

[brophog]

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I don't see a reason for this program either. But the argument that it leads to commercialism is a bunch of hooey. Mame can go commercial all by itself!

[lokki]

Without trying to add gas to the fire,

has anyone actually ever seen a MAME arcade machine running a multigame FrontEnd in a commercial setting that requires money to play?

Yes, See them all the time in Mexico, running ArcadeOS and hacked versions of MAME. May not be a big deal in the US, but is big issue in rest of the world.

[SirPoonga]

This doesnt make it any easier to make MAME commercial than MAME itself already does.

Yes it does.  It makes it work more like a commercial multigame system. 

[brophog]

It's pure semantics and looks. There is no reason you need to put coins into the frontend to make it a commercial product.

[SirPoonga]

No, it's the fact that the credits carry over when switching games.  Commercial systems do this.  It's not the fact that you can put in credits at the frontend.

Since credits are free for a home user there isn't a need for a program like this.  But if you want to fake a multigame system using mame a feature like this will make it much easier.  That's the argument against such a feature as it really doesn't do much for the home user but does quite abit for someone using mame commercially.

Also like I said before I don't care if he keeps the program up or not.  I'm just pointing out why people would be against it.

[brian23]

If MAME was concerned about commercialization by allowing coin drops, then there wouldn't be a insert coin feature altogether. CoinDrop is simply a nice add-on to MAME that allows you to transfer your "keystrokes" from one game to the next. I actually find it quite annoying to have to use the i-pac shift function to put coins into a game everytime.

[Necro]

I just brought it up so headkaze would know it was coming.  IMHO, if it's easy to do, some person/company could just do it on their own and sell MAME cabinets anyhow.

I plan on using this once I get my cab together.

[SirPoonga]

If MAME was concerned about commercialization by allowing coin drops, then there wouldn't be a insert coin feature altogether.

Have you seen the EULA?  Do you know about what ultracade did?

Mame is very concerned about commercialization.  But it is a documentation project, inserting a coin is part of an arcade machine.

[markrvp]

Isn't that like asking if anyone has seen a car, while the combustion engine was still being invented?

I don't think so.  Someone answered above that they have seen a lot of MAME cabinets in Mexico.  So the ability for a Front End to manage credits isn't the obstacle keeping MAME cabinets from illegal use.

I understand the argument against coindrop FE management, but I think if operators saw a fortune to be made in classic on-site arcade cabinets we would have already seen it.  It has already been pointed out the Ultracade machines have been poor earners in arcades.

I don't care either way. 

What I would like to see is someone figure out how the game STEPMANIA was written as it seems to be a really flashy type program that would look awesome as a Front End.  It doesn't crash and is very professional looking and allows selection of songs (i.e. ROMS) very easily.  I think a Front End that looks, sounds, and reacts as nicely as the FE that sets up games in Stepmania would be great for our community.

[brian23]

If MAME was concerned about commercialization by allowing coin drops, then there wouldn't be a insert coin feature altogether.

Have you seen the EULA?

[RayB]

I don't think so.

[loadman]

I was up until now resisting entering this discussion instead just providing a link to a wav as the author of Coindrop requested..

[youki]

Funny, it is same discussion we had few month ago when i introduced AtomicFe with this feature.

Concerning MAME Cab in a exploitation context.  There are lot of  in Spain and Italy too.

And i saw one in North Carolina in U.S.

Some PCB are sold including MAME and 400 or 900 roms too.  They are JAMMA board with a Hardrive, you just plug to your Cab  , and you boot up directly on a FE (Arcade OS , i think). And you can choose up to 900 games runing with mame.
The credit management is done by electronic.

These boards are called "900 in 1"  , and "400 in 1" . You can find some of them on Ebay sometimes.

Boards are made in china.

So, i don't think credit management in FE will change something.

Personnally i decided to put in "stand by" the coin management from the FE in Atomic. Just to avoid polemic and be concentrated on others features.

I agree with lot of you. It is not necessary at all to have a coin management from the FE , but it is just for fun and for a little more "arcade" feeling in a mamecab.
And from my personnal point of view , it was more for the technical aspect i wanted to do that.

[Grasshopper]

Headcaze, I think this is a great idea and I appreciate your efforts.

It's true that your program will make life slightly easier for pirates but I honestly don't think it will make a dramatic difference. I've seen a number of almost certainly illegal multigame machines in arcades and some of them already had polished front ends capable of tracking coins. Admittedly I've also seen others that simply had instructions on the bezel warning users that coins entered whilst in the front end would be lost. But let's face it many of the far east pirates are perfectly capable of hacking into MAME for themselves and have probably already done so. The bottom line is that 95% of the pirates' work has already been done by the MAME (and other emulator) developers. This Coindrop program is merely icing on the cake.

Anyway, I've never really bought into the idea that MAME is solely a "documentation project". Obviously that's part of it but I find it hard to believe that the MAMEDEVS don't also want to play the games. I think they stress the documentation side of MAME to try and give themselves some legal cover in the unlikely event they get sued at some point.

I haven't downloaded the program yet but one thing I'm wondering is whether any coins are lost if you enter coins in MAME and then return to the front end.

[dntaskwho]

Im having trouble getting it to work. I have it loaded and hear the coin drop noise when I press 5 or 6. So I select the game I want and mame loads. When the game starts no credits appear. Pressing 1 or 2 player does not do anything. Am I doing something wrong?

[dntaskwho]

I don't understand why some people have a problem with this program. True it can be used for commercial gain which is wrong, but 99% of the people on this board are using illegal roms to play mame. The only difference is that they are not making money off of them.

[SirPoonga]

Anyway, I've never really bought into the idea that MAME is solely a "documentation project". Obviously that's part of it but I find it hard to believe that the MAMEDEVS don't also want to play the games. I think they stress the documentation side of MAME to try and give themselves some legal cover in the unlikely event they get sued at some point.

This is a narrow minded idea.  Just because it can play games doesn't mean that is its main purpose.  There's plenty of software examples of this where the main purpose of the software is not the popular use.
If mame was about playing games it would be more like the kawaks, nebula, zinc, modeller, viva nonno, etc.. emulators.  It would take advantage of computer's hardware.  Mame emulates EVERYTHING, including the graphics engine the arcade game used.  Go ahead, take zinc and play a game like strider 2 on a PIII 500, now play it in mame.  Unplayable in mame at that speed.  You can do the same with neogeo games.  Try playing a neogeo game in mame on a PIII 500, barely get full frame rate.  Now run kawaks or neoragex.  There are many other examples where they could make it much more player friendly.

People with opinions like yours usually don't realize there are other arcade emulators out there that are much better for playing the games.  It's because of this that retrocade stopped.  Since mame is so popular now people didn't want to contribute to retrocade.  But retrocade can run the games it supported better than mame (it didn't need a big computer to play them).

Anyway, here's comments that Haze (http://haze.mameworld.info/) has made on this board.  Haze controlled the mame project for the last couple of years.  He still develops but I think Aaron Giles is now who determines new releases.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=36710.msg337849#msg337849
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37734.msg337151#msg337151
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37734.msg338799#msg338799
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37779.msg340653#msg340653
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38190.msg346650#msg346650
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38854.msg352453#msg352453

[Crazy Cooter]

If there is enough people who agree this program should not be released, I will remove it just let me know.

Besides the MAMEdevs themselves, I also think it should be pulled down.  It's been possible to do this in MAME for quite some time, it's just not worth having it around.  the potential for abuse is too much.

Going with the gun thing... it would be like legalizing full-auto weapons.  The bad things outweigh the good.

[brophog]

Going with the gun thing... it would be like legalizing full-auto weapons.  The bad things outweigh the good.

Or, instead of making silly laws for what amounts to a fancy slingshot, we could teach people to use their brains rather than running around chasing the infinite number of stupid things they could possibly do.

And of course, none of that is related to this program as this thread has sidetracked greatly.

[dax]

I think this is a great idea.   

There are definitely non-commercial uses for this.

For example, I like the idea because for me and my family, I can regulate game use.  If I make the cab accept coins and have everybody put money in the machine to play, I save up money for some sort of OUTDOOR activity, and it keeps people from playing too long.  Part of the fun of playing a real arcade machine is that you never traditionally had limitless time to play it, so playing it was special, and something like this recreates that kind of feel IMO.

[SirPoonga]

For example, I like the idea because for me and my family, I can regulate game use.  If I make the cab accept coins and have everybody put money in the machine to play, I save up money for some sort of OUTDOOR activity, and it keeps people from playing too long.  Part of the fun of playing a real arcade machine is that you never traditionally had limitless time to play it, so playing it was special, and something like this recreates that kind of feel IMO.

You can't do that by handing out some tokens or coins? 

[Necro]

I really don't get why people have such a hard time accepting some people might be interested in a program like this.  If you don't like it, don't use it.  No one's forcing you to use it

Live and let live.

[headkaze]

Im having trouble getting it to work. I have it loaded and hear the coin drop noise when I press 5 or 6. So I select the game I want and mame loads. When the game starts no credits appear. Pressing 1 or 2 player does not do anything. Am I doing something wrong?

Please post your machine specs, version of Mame etc. Anyone else having this problem?

BTW I have removed the download, so if you missed it, too bad. Hopefully only some homebrewer's here have a copy. If you want a copy and can prove to me that you are a genuine homebrewer, then I will give you a url and password (PM me your project page). Hopefully this solves the issue somewhat.

The reason I have done this is mainly because of the comments by Haze. I have to respect the wishes of the Mame developers and that's that. I will continue the development and try to fix any bugs etc. so post any problems you have here.

[dax]

I have a quarter coin door in my machine.  I use it kind of like a piggy bank -- that's why I wouldn't use tokens, which I never liked in the first place.  The whole notion of machines that accept tokens is stupid and annoying IMO. It ranks right up there with "mail-in rebates" as being a sleazy marketing tactic to pilfer peoples' money by counting on them being lazy and adding more, unnecessary steps to the transaction.

Are there really some of the software developers here?

I think it's sad that you've made the program unavailable.  I see nothing wrong with it.  It's just like Bittorrrent or Napster; you can use it for good or you can use it for evil.  If people violate the licensing terms, they deserve to get censured, but not when there are legit uses for such products.

I have a bone to pick on this whole "not for commercial use" thing because I see violations of this all the time.  For example, you can't download MAME32 without signing up for some annoying pay-for-download site -- someone there is most definitely making money off MAME.  What's the deal with that?  The first thing that needs to change is that guy has to dump the commercial scheme he has in place where he's profiting from MAME32.  And if he isn't, then filedepot or whoever they are definitely.  But it's unquestionably a commercial endeavor that is exploiting MAME to make money.  Am I the only one who doesn't like it?

Has anybody checked to see if commercial software like "Williams Arcade Classics", "Nameco Museum" and the plethora of other vintage arcade game releases contain MAME code?  I'd bet every single one of them does.  And if so, who would be designated to take action and what kind of action could be taken?

I'm not taking sides except noting that this whole deal seems to be a sticky situation.

[brophog]

"Williams Arcade Classics", "Nameco Museum" and the plethora of other vintage arcade game releases contain MAME code?  I'd bet every single one of them does.

Why would they? They've been making remakes of those games for consoles and PC's long before MAME was ever thought of.

[markrvp]

For example, you can't download MAME32 without signing up for some annoying pay-for-download site -- someone there is most definitely making money off MAME.

[Roughy]

JohnIV should get into touch with me; might be able to work something out a little different since I host...

[SirPoonga]

I think it's sad that you've made the program unavailable.  I see nothing wrong with it.  It's just like Bittorrrent or Napster; you can use it for good or you can use it for evil.  If people violate the licensing terms, they deserve to get censured, but not when there are legit uses for such products.

You see, bit torrent is different.  There are tons of legit uses.  Companies and the government are using bit torrent for legit reasons.
This program has no legit use outside of what a home user will use it for.  Also, it really isn't needed.  Like I said earlier, you can just add a credit when you select a new game.

Has anybody checked to see if commercial software like "Williams Arcade Classics", "Nameco Museum" and the plethora of other vintage arcade game releases contain MAME code?  I'd bet every single one of them does.  And if so, who would be designated to take action and what kind of action could be taken?

They are either remakes or use their own emulation.  Why is it whenever people  see an arcade game on a pc they think there MUST be mame code with it?  Does it ever occur to people that mame isn't the only arcade emulator and since it is a commercial product the company didn't hire someone to make an emulator?
Here's a good example.
http://www.microsoft.com/games/arcade/
This came out before atari was even in mame.  I have it on floppy somewhere.  I was curious once if it had mame code.  I read the read me and it does mention emulation, but obviously it couldn't be mame.
Even when the 1999 Hasboro Atari collection hit the market mame was just adding Atari stuff (and not even .36 final yet).

[dax]

For example, you can't download MAME32 without signing up for some annoying pay-for-download site -- someone there is most definitely making money off MAME.  What's the deal with that?  The first thing that needs to change is that guy has to dump the commercial scheme he has in place where he's profiting from MAME32.  And if he isn't, then filedepot or whoever they are definitely.  But it's unquestionably a commercial endeavor that is exploiting MAME to make money.  Am I the only one who doesn't like it?

You are incorrect.  You have to pay for the ZERO WAIT TIME downloads.  If you have enough patience to wait a minute or so you get to download it for free.

JohnIV uses that site because they will host the download files for free, i.e. he doesn't have to pay for hosting.  Since he isn't making any money off of Mame32, how can you be so arrogant as to demand that he pay for his own domain/server so that you can more conveniently download a free product?

There are alternatives to getting in bed with a corporation that charges for download bandwidth.  If you don't know that, then you haven't been around much.

It's a marketing scheme to make money for somebody using the MAME files.  There are a hundred sites that would host the files for FREE without engaging the user in some sort of commercial solicitation.  That is a COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR.  Period.

That this guy needs to team up with a commercial operator trying to solicit subscriptions is just lame.  That's totally not necessary.  He's either making money, or he has a deal with those guys to help their business using the software, or he's naive and hasn't spent ten minutes looking around for other places that would freely host the files without the annoyware.

You can rationalize however you want, but that hosting company is profiting off MAME.  End of story.  They are requiring every single person who downloads the software to "sign up".  This mailing list is worth money, and of course they try to convince the people to upgrade to the pay services.  That's called a commercial operation, and MAME draws people to that site. 

You can argue about it, like you can argue that charging someone $25 for a copy of the ROMs on DVD is not actually charging for the ROMs per se, and merely the costs involved, but we both know the ROMs are the value which drives the transaction, and if someone operates this as a way to make money, it's a commercial operation, plain and simple.  That's the way it is.  I'm sorry the guy is a friend of yours, but if you all are going to be high and mighty about not exploiting MAME for comercial purposes, don't be hypocritical and look the other way half the time.

[dax]

I think it's sad that you've made the program unavailable.  I see nothing wrong with it.  It's just like Bittorrrent or Napster; you can use it for good or you can use it for evil.  If people violate the licensing terms, they deserve to get censured, but not when there are legit uses for such products.

You see, bit torrent is different.  There are tons of legit uses.  Companies and the government are using bit torrent for legit reasons.
This program has no legit use outside of what a home user will use it for.  Also, it really isn't needed.  Like I said earlier, you can just add a credit when you select a new game.

I don't want to be argumentative, but... I think the software would be useful and I have no aspiration to exploit it commercially, unless you consider me using my MAME cabinet as a piggy bank and rationing my play with available quarters to be some sort of commercial operation.  I don't think so.  Therefore there's at least one application of the software in a non-commercial environment so it IS legit.

Has anybody checked to see if commercial software like "Williams Arcade Classics", "Nameco Museum" and the plethora of other vintage arcade game releases contain MAME code?  I'd bet every single one of them does.  And if so, who would be designated to take action and what kind of action could be taken?

They are either remakes or use their own emulation.  Why is it whenever people  see an arcade game on a pc they think there MUST be mame code with it?  Does it ever occur to people that mame isn't the only arcade emulator and since it is a commercial product the company didn't hire someone to make an emulator?
Here's a good example.
http://www.microsoft.com/games/arcade/
This came out before atari was even in mame.  I have it on floppy somewhere.  I was curious once if it had mame code.  I read the read me and it does mention emulation, but obviously it couldn't be mame.
Even when the 1999 Hasboro Atari collection hit the market mame was just adding Atari stuff (and not even .36 final yet).

I actually have an original copy of that MS game.  However, I don't recall whether or not MAME was around then or not..

I'm just saying... MAME is an incredible body of work.  Anyone who would be in that business and who would want to develop a commercial emulator would be very tempted to look at the MAME code and probably at the least, learn from it.  I am a software publisher (I received "Editor's Choice" from PC Magazine in 1991 for a program I wrote, so I'm not just a casual coder).  I do not pirate other peoples' code for my own projects, and on the rare occasion where I use third-party code, I get explicit permission to do so, but I come across "commercial" apps almost every day that are ripped off from derivative code of dubious sources, so I know this is rampant in the industry.  I'm just saying, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the emu code that's commercially running can be traced back to some of these OS projects - I wouldn't be surprised a bit... too much advancement has been made, and I don't think many of these big corporations are as reputable and ethical as they once used to be.  Call me cynical, but I'm also a realist.  YMMV.

I just think that it's kind of a double standard to assume the commercial emu code that is released is not exploitive of MAME, and then chastize indy developers who release complimentary code that does not violate the licensing terms, conversely assuming that since the product CAN have the potential to be exploited, it must have no legit purpose.  This doesn't seem consistent to me.

[SirPoonga]

I think it's sad that you've made the program unavailable.  I see nothing wrong with it.  It's just like Bittorrrent or Napster; you can use it for good or you can use it for evil.  If people violate the licensing terms, they deserve to get censured, but not when there are legit uses for such products.

You see, bit torrent is different.  There are tons of legit uses.  Companies and the government are using bit torrent for legit reasons.
This program has no legit use outside of what a home user will use it for.  Also, it really isn't needed.  Like I said earlier, you can just add a credit when you select a new game.

I don't want to be argumentative, but... I think the software would be useful and I have no aspiration to exploit it commercially, unless you consider me using my MAME cabinet as a piggy bank and rationing my play with available quarters to be some sort of commercial operation.  I don't think so.  Therefore there's at least one application of the software in a non-commercial environment so it IS legit.

I'm not saying putting quarters into your arcade is commercial.  I'm saying since it doesn't cost you aynthing to push a button for a credit how is a program like this useful?  Couldn't you just add more credits when you switch to a new game?

[dax]

I think it's sad that you've made the program unavailable.  I see nothing wrong with it.  It's just like Bittorrrent or Napster; you can use it for good or you can use it for evil.  If people violate the licensing terms, they deserve to get censured, but not when there are legit uses for such products.

You see, bit torrent is different.  There are tons of legit uses.  Companies and the government are using bit torrent for legit reasons.
This program has no legit use outside of what a home user will use it for.  Also, it really isn't needed.  Like I said earlier, you can just add a credit when you select a new game.

I don't want to be argumentative, but... I think the software would be useful and I have no aspiration to exploit it commercially, unless you consider me using my MAME cabinet as a piggy bank and rationing my play with available quarters to be some sort of commercial operation.  I don't think so.  Therefore there's at least one application of the software in a non-commercial environment so it IS legit.

I'm not saying putting quarters into your arcade is commercial.  I'm saying since it doesn't cost you aynthing to push a button for a credit how is a program like this useful?  Couldn't you just add more credits when you switch to a new game?

The problem is.. if you are using quarters then you have to make sure you put the coins in at the right time or else they don't work.  Maybe this software isn't completely fool-proof because it doesn't transfer unused credits back out if you exit a particular game, but I think that would be a neat feature.  Granted, most people wouldn't see a use for it, but I like the idea of regulating my game usage with real money, and it also serves as an incentive to maintain a piggy bank of spare change that, for example, you could use to upgrade your cab or something.

Seriously, I look at my MAME cab as basically a piggy bank with an incentive system.  If I want to play, I cough up cash (most of the time. ha ha)  If people come over, I open the cabinet up, but right now I don't have an easy way to rack up credits without having the coin door open and I'd like to generally leave it closed -- eventually I'll put a credit switch somewhere but I don't have that now, but even if I did, I'd have a toggle inside the cab to turn it on or off, because I like the idea of forcing myself and my family to cough up quarters to play, so they don't necessarily sit there all night playing endlessly with nothing to show for it but blisters.  (And we all know how that is!) 

[Crazy Cooter]

...some of these OS projects

MAME is not open source.

code that does not violate the licensing terms

The MAMEdevs have said they do not want to see this kind of app.

There are a hundred sites that would host the files for FREE without engaging the user in some sort of commercial solicitation.

MAME32 is available all over the place for "free" download if you do not want to go through fileplanet (I personally hate fileplanet for reasons similar to yours).

If you don't like it, don't use it.  No one's forcing you to use it

Same could be said about MAME.

Napsters downfall was because the "bad" far outweighed the "good".  I would like to have this program as well, but the "bad" FAR outweighs the "good".  It lends zero to the goal of the MAME project (I know some disagree with the legitimacy of said goal), and gives more reason AND makes it easier to make a con-cabinet.

I just don't see the sense in offering software where you might get sued for coding it (ala napster).

[SirPoonga]

The problem is.. if you are using quarters then you have to make sure you put the coins in at the right time or else they don't work.

Then you learn quickly when the right time is.  Just like you learn quickly that you need to put the oil plug back in the car BEFORE you put oil in it   After a couple of times it will not be a problem.

...some of these OS projects

MAME is not open source.

Actually it is.  Here's the source code for you
http://mamedev.com/source.html

[Grasshopper]

Anyway, I've never really bought into the idea that MAME is solely a "documentation project". Obviously that's part of it but I find it hard to believe that the MAMEDEVS don't also want to play the games. I think they stress the documentation side of MAME to try and give themselves some legal cover in the unlikely event they get sued at some point.

This is a narrow minded idea.  Just because it can play games doesn't mean that is its main purpose.  There's plenty of software examples of this where the main purpose of the software is not the popular use.
If mame was about playing games it would be more like the kawaks, nebula, zinc, modeller, viva nonno, etc.. emulators.  It would take advantage of computer's hardware.  Mame emulates EVERYTHING, including the graphics engine the arcade game used.  Go ahead, take zinc and play a game like strider 2 on a PIII 500, now play it in mame.  Unplayable in mame at that speed.  You can do the same with neogeo games.  Try playing a neogeo game in mame on a PIII 500, barely get full frame rate.  Now run kawaks or neoragex.  There are many other examples where they could make it much more player friendly.

People with opinions like yours usually don't realize there are other arcade emulators out there that are much better for playing the games.  It's because of this that retrocade stopped.  Since mame is so popular now people didn't want to contribute to retrocade.  But retrocade can run the games it supported better than mame (it didn't need a big computer to play them).

Anyway, here's comments that Haze (http://haze.mameworld.info/) has made on this board.  Haze controlled the mame project for the last couple of years.  He still develops but I think Aaron Giles is now who determines new releases.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=36710.msg337849#msg337849
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37734.msg337151#msg337151
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37734.msg338799#msg338799
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37779.msg340653#msg340653
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38190.msg346650#msg346650
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38854.msg352453#msg352453

The reason that MAME is slower than other emulators is simply because the Mamedevs have focused on accuracy and portability (both things I approve of incidentally). But that doesn't mean that MAME is solely a documentation project. It would have been perfectly possible for the Mamedevs to "document" the games hardware without creating a fully functional emulator. There are many many ways they could have crippled MAME in order to make it unsuitable for use in a commercial environment. For example they could, as someone else here suggested, have set all games to always run on freeplay.

All emulators are documentation projects, even the ones optimised for current hardware. But ultimately the whole raison d'etre of any emulator is to enable the games to continue to be played. Calling MAME a "documentation project" doesn't change its legal or moral status in any way whatsoever.

I've read all of Haze's comments you linked to and I fully understand and respect his position. If he was the only person involved with MAME then his comments might, just might, be justification for headcaze to withdraw his program. But it's not that black and white. What about the other developers who have chosen not to comment? Maybe they're not even in a position to speak freely anymore after having "negotiated" with Foley. What about the many people who have dumped ROMs, reported bugs etc? Don't they have a stake in the project?

Even if most of the people involved with MAME feel the same way as Haze, it's still not a black and white issue because it's possible that headcaze's program could used with other emulators. Who knows, maybe it could even be used with some of the legal game compilations that are available. What I find particularly intriguing is the possibility that, with a little modification, the program could be used to add coin drop functionality to modern games or emulators that don't currently have that facility such as console emulators. So this is not just a MAME issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for what the Mamedevs have done for this hobby and their views should be accorded a lot of weight because of that. But they don't own the entire retro-gaming scene and they certainly shouldn't be in a position to veto programs written by other people.

According to the logic of some people here, perhaps we shouldn't have front ends at all because they are not absolutely necessary. And even without coin drop functionality they still make life easier for pirates.

At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinions and I can see both sides of this argument. But what disappoints me is seeing certain people here (who almost certainly have a shed-load of illegally acquired roms on their hard drive) taking a holier than thou attitude and passing judgement on others. Headcaze has gone to the time and trouble of writing a program that potentially makes our hobby more pleasurable. Even those people who feel strongly about the piracy issue should recognise this.

[dax]

...some of these OS projects

MAME is not open source.

Huh?

code that does not violate the licensing terms

The MAMEdevs have said they do not want to see this kind of app.

That's kind of ambiguous.  In the same spirit, let it be known that I am saying I do not want to see war, poverty or famine on this planet.

Show me where it says in the license that someone can't run another piece of software on the same computer where MAME is running.  Then and only then would your argument have any relevancy.

From what I gather, this program basically sits resident and messes with the keyboard buffer.  If the MAME developers don't like it, they have about as much right to stop it as I do calling President Bush and demanding that he step down for being a crappy president.  Come to think of it, I believe I have more right to perform the latter than I would, if I were a MAME developer, to have any authority to stop the use of this add-on program.

There are a hundred sites that would host the files for FREE without engaging the user in some sort of commercial solicitation.

MAME32 is available all over the place for "free" download if you do not want to go through fileplanet (I personally hate fileplanet for reasons similar to yours).

We agree on something at least.

Anyway, the "official download site" of this type of project is important.  It shouldn't be in bed with some sleazebag bandwidth vending machine like fileplanet.  It looks bad for MAME to even be associated with operations like that.

Napsters downfall was because the "bad" far outweighed the "good".  I would like to have this program as well, but the "bad" FAR outweighs the "good".  It lends zero to the goal of the MAME project (I know some disagree with the legitimacy of said goal), and gives more reason AND makes it easier to make a con-cabinet.

I just don't see the sense in offering software where you might get sued for coding it (ala napster).

Are you kidding?  MAME could get shut down for almost the exact same reasons as Napster got shut down.  The program exists almost exclusively to facilitate copyright infringement.  Period.  The only reason MAME still exists is because:  a) It's not that well known in mainstream, b) the program is not appearing to make a dent in the revenue of any influential corporation.  However, it is just a matter of time...   All we need is for CNN to run some story on how MAME is infringing upon xBox or Playstation profits and there will be some sort of lobbyist-motivated congressional hearing or other media circus and the whole deal with go *poof* like Napster.

Let's not be so idealistic that we don't see the forest through the trees here.

[Roughy]

So, to summarize:

Some people find CoinDrop to be a good, useful program for their own personal usage.

Some people find CoinDrop to be not so good because of the potential for Commercial (mis)Use.

Cool.

Someone point me to the next poo-flinging contest, please. :-)

[dax]

You forgot:

Some people have double standards, some don't.

Some people seem to think that using unlicensed roms is perfectly ok, but get all uppity at the idea someone might use the software for commercial purposes, which is just as much a violation of the copyright.

Where I come from, that's called hypocritical.

[markrvp]

Dax = Subzero.

[DrewKaree]

You forgot:

Some people have double standards, some don't.

You forgot people who can't take a simple wrap-up of the idea and let it drop without adding their two cents because they got their panties caught in the Sit-n-Spin and didn't realize it until too late.

You've attached your ideas to many things and have all but stated that there are people lying about their reasons for doing/creating/working on something because that's how you see it.  Are we supposed to use the same logic towards you and come to the conclusion you want this program to profit from others' hard work and "to facilitate copyright infringement."?

Don't talk about being "idyllic" and then turn around and claim you want to use this for your kids.  Talk about forests and hypocrisy and all that other tree crap.  Do you even realize when you contradict yourself?

[GGKoul]

Dax = Subzero.  Or is it BlueOakleys?

Floyd10?

[Crazy Cooter]

...some of these OS projects

MAME is not open source.

Actually it is.  Here's the source code for you
http://mamedev.com/source.html

"Source Available" vs. "Open Source".

http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php

MAME isn't Open Source.

[SirPoonga]

"Source Available" vs. "Open Source".

http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php

MAME isn't Open Source.

Tomato, tomayto.

I can quote definitions to that support what I said
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/O/open_source.html

[DrewKaree]

SirP = subzero
CC = blueoakleyz

Cage match!

[Roughy]

You forgot:

Some people have double standards, some don't.

Some people seem to think that using unlicensed roms is perfectly ok, but get all uppity at the idea someone might use the software for commercial purposes, which is just as much a violation of the copyright.

Where I come from, that's called hypocritical.

No, I didn't forget any of that.  I very clearly avoided that, yet you felt it very necessary to bring it up--and why?

Why are so many people taking this thread and applying their beliefs--instead of opinions or insights for the author--and turning it into some sort of oddball territorial pissing contest?

Let it go; he pulled down the program and some of us have it, some of us don't.  If there needs to be a moral / ethical debate, start a thread somewhere; I just don't see why it's important to perpetuate whateve has been going on here lately.

[dax]

And you guys call me argumentative?

Whatever.  I see there's another double standard.   You can express your opinion but new people can't?  And I guess you think that anyone who disagrees is just the same guy using different screen names?  Sheesh.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with pointing out what I think is a double standard.  Am I entitled to an opinion here?

It's further ironic that most of the people here are enjoying the fruits of independent developers who have donated their time to make this project better, and some here, while sucking at that teat, discourage others from adding to the project.  And this is a great example... this guy pulls down his software.  It has less to do with the specific software and more to do with the irrationality of discouraging development.  The same arguments one could make for this program could be made for any other element that's part of MAME.  It just seems crazy and ridiculous.

This reminds me of a project I was involved with relating to a company called Akai.  They had a few indy developers working on enhancements to some hardware that expanded the capabilities, and the executives maintained this online forum that was dominated by a few heavy posters who bullied the new people and destroyed the forum and discouraged the developers from donating their time and resources to the project.  Eventually the hardware floundered because there wasn't enough support.  But because some of these bullies were good buddies with the Akai people, they weren't told to tune things down and the company lost in the end.   Sad.  I wouldn't discourage anyone who wants to donate time and energy towards making any aspect of MAME more functional.

[headkaze]

Maybe this software isn't completely fool-proof because it doesn't transfer unused credits back out if you exit a particular game, but I think that would be a neat feature.

Version 1.1 allows you to carry over credits. Instead of automatically dropping all the coins in at once you now press the start buttons to drop a coin & start. Perhaps you have the first version.

[markrvp]

It's further ironic that most of the people here are enjoying the fruits of independent developers who have donated their time to make this project better, and some here, while sucking at that teat, discourage others from adding to the project.

[dax]

What are you adding to the project?  All I've seen from you so far is that you're upset because you had to wait a little while for your FREE MAME program.  Oh, and you're upset that even though you got it for FREE, a webhost might have made a couple of cents for facilitating your FREE download.

Please don't mischaracterize things.  I think I made a valid point.  If you disagree, you can disagree, but nobody, least of all you, has shown my point to be invalid.  You can cloud the issue by getting into personal attacks, but that says more about you than it does me.

I also never claimed that ArcadeOS was a windows program.  Again, you're stretching to go out of your way to make me look bad - I'm sorry if you've taken some kind of virtual hit to your virtual pride or something, but it's irrelevant.  I actually do have ArcadeOS running from Windows 98 now without any problems.  I don't know if you're aware, but Windows can run DOS applications.  Have you heard about that?

I participate plenty.  In fact I have provided code (via the Apache Project) that this web site uses to serve you guys, among many others.

If I can help anybody else with my knowledge I'm only too happy to oblige. 

I can see obviously there's a hierarchy of old-school posters here who have their feathers ruffled.  If I'm not welcome, I'll gladly go elsewhere.  You don't have to say it twice.  I didn't mean to bust in on a private club here.

[D5A1AC]

I'm also experiencing the problem where the program causes the coin insert sound to play when I press 5 but nothing happens in mame (I tried it in robotron) when I hit 1, unless I hit 5 while I am in mame.

EDIT: I'm using fastmame 0.98, and although I doubt it is really important my specs are: Nvidia A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard, AMD Athlon XP3200+ cpu, radeon 9800 pro, 2X256 hyundai ddr400 ram, an 80GB barracuda as well as a 120GB, and then some optical drives which obviously wouldnt conflict with your program.

[DrewKaree]

I don't want to be argumentative, but...

THERE IS NO "BUT".  YOU EITHER DO OR YOU DON'T WANT TO BE.  CLEARLY YOU DO WANT TO BE.  TAKE A LOOK AT WHO'S SAYING THIS.  IT'S YOU, GENIUS!

Again, DO YOU EVEN REALIZE HOW MUCH YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF?

And you guys call me argumentative?

No, YOU CALL YOURSELF ARGUMENTATIVE! 

There's no way to point it out to you other than to show you your own words, since you don't believe factual points brought up by members here and refuse to acknowledge it when it's demonstrated to you.

The martyr role doesn't fit you well when your words continue to be used against you.  See if Pepto Bismol can stop the diarrhea of the keyboard.

[markrvp]

I can see obviously there's a hierarchy of old-school posters here who have their feathers ruffled.

[SirPoonga]

And I guess you think that anyone who disagrees is just the same guy using different screen names?

Since you are new you didn't get the joke

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with pointing out what I think is a double standard.  Am I entitled to an opinion here?

Nothing wrong with it.  But you have to remember many people have legal cabinets.  Mame may have led you here but you will realize there's more to an arcade cabinet than mame.  I think that's why many people here think everyone must be running illegal cabinets as most people started out with mame.

There's shareware, freeware, ports, remakes, compilations, legal emulation like epsxe with real psx discs.  Mame only makes up a small part of what you can do with a cabinet.  I think many people don't realize that there's a PC in their cabinet, meaning they can do alot of stuff other than mame.  That's why there are many frontends that can handle more than just mame.

In fact mame didn't lead me to a home cabinet, though it did lead me to this forum.  My first experience with home arcade was in high school seeing a person put a nes into a cabinet in Nintendo Power.  Then in college the guys across the street put a nes, snes, andd genesis into a cabinet.  That's what started me looking for an arcade cabinet, which eventually led to mame, which eventually led to this site.  Emulation is only a small part of my cabinet, which is legal emulation.  I got in on starroms when they had a bunch of atari games.  But I also play many ports, remakes, compilations, epsxe with real psx discs, shareware, and freeware.  In fact that why I have a voodoo3 in my cabinet, many of these older ports and remakes had 3dfx acceleration, like nfl blitz.  So you see why I don't think something like this software is useful.

It has less to do with the specific software and more to do with the irrationality of discouraging development. 

I didn't discourage it, look, I even said he could keep it up but said it was going to be frowned upon. 



I do have a question about the program.  If you continue to develop it are you going to handle the credit requirement difference in some games or just assume 1 coin 1 = 1 credit?  Plus there are many older games that didn't have coin and start, just coin, the game started once you put the coin in or hit button 1.  I assume you would stick with 1 coin 1 credit as that should cover 80% of the playable games?


Ok, now the bickering is getting to the point where I will have to prune the thread.  Please stop.  We have the right to our own opinions.  Many people are going to clash, but don;t put someone down if yours is different.

[headkaze]

Thanks SirPoonga a thread prune may be in order Unfortunately this thread has become a bit of a stomping ground. But back to the matter at hand...

I'm also experiencing the problem where the program causes the coin insert sound to play when I press 5 but nothing happens in mame (I tried it in robotron) when I hit 1, unless I hit 5 while I am in mame.

Perhaps CoinDrop is not finding Mame... it searches for the "MAME:" part of a window when Mame launches. I have no experience with fastmame, perhaps it uses a different way to name it's window. As I have only tested this with Mame32 and Mame32fx (I'm assuming it works with standard Mame if that uses DirectInput too). Can anyone confirm that it is actually working for them? I havn't had any feedback saying it's actually working. Until I get a bit more of a feel for what may be happening or going wrong, I don't know how to go about debugging this. The actual coin insert part of the program works separately (the part where it detects a coin drop key press and makes a sound), so it seems the problem may lie in the DirectInput injection code. You could also test to see if it can auto-skip the disclaimer screens. But if it can't find a window named "MAME:*" then it won't find Mame. If you can run your version of Mame, then Alt-TAB out to the desktop, check if the name of the process on the taskbar is called "MAME: *name_of_rom*", and get back to me.

I do have a question about the program.

[Grasshopper]

Unfortunately I can't get it working either. The coin drop sound works when I press '5' outside MAME but when MAME is running you only hear the game specific coin drop sound when '5' is pressed and any coins entered outside MAME are not remembered i.e. normal MAME behaviour.

I'm using MAME32 on XP and the window name is:

MAME: Ghouls'n Ghosts (world) [ghouls]

It occurs to me that perhaps your program has to be run on startup to work properly. I just clicked on the icon. Is that a possible source of the problem?

[D5A1AC]

Headkaze, I checked the mame window and it is titled "MAME: rom". None of the press Ok screens are automatically skipped 

[SirPeale]

File appears to be gone now, was it taken down?

[headkaze]

Hmm, I'll have to check out these problems soon. I've been working hard on my cab recently and havn't had time to do more testing. I'll get back to you.

File appears to be gone now, was it taken down?

Yes, it's been removed. Check one of my previous posts for explaination why.

[SOAPboy]

Im having trouble getting it to work. I have it loaded and hear the coin drop noise when I press 5 or 6. So I select the game I want and mame loads. When the game starts no credits appear. Pressing 1 or 2 player does not do anything. Am I doing something wrong?

Please post your machine specs, version of Mame etc. Anyone else having this problem?

BTW I have removed the download, so if you missed it, too bad. Hopefully only some homebrewer's here have a copy. If you want a copy and can prove to me that you are a genuine homebrewer, then I will give you a url and password (PM me your project page). Hopefully this solves the issue somewhat.

The reason I have done this is mainly because of the comments by Haze. I have to respect the wishes of the Mame developers and that's that. I will continue the development and try to fix any bugs etc. so post any problems you have here.

Its a shame that people cant just say "thanks" instead of "OMGWTF THATS BAD"

Id love something like this, would make my machine feel more "real" instead of like some PC inside a cabinet..

Oh well, crybabies ruined it..

[headkaze]

Actually, you can still get a copy, you just have to message me in this forum with a link to your project page and I will give you a password and url to download.

[SOAPboy]

Actually, you can still get a copy, you just have to message me in this forum with a link to your project page and I will give you a password and url to download.

And i thank you alot for that, and still trying to give to the community by doing so..

Its just a shame you have to do that

Ill PM you when i get around to getting my cade running again, currently the PC is being used by my GF and is now loaded with tons of spyware.. thanks gf.. :-|

[iwillfearnoevil]

i still find it ironic how some people get so upset at this idea yet are playing with roms when they don't own the pcb. i just don't get how what they do is okay but try to come down on other people.

[Spartan]

I'm also experiencing the problem where the program causes the coin insert sound to play when I press 5 but nothing happens in mame (I tried it in robotron) when I hit 1, unless I hit 5 while I am in mame.

Perhaps CoinDrop is not finding Mame... it searches for the "MAME:" part of a window when Mame launches. I have no experience with fastmame, perhaps it uses a different way to name it's window. As I have only tested this with Mame32 and Mame32fx (I'm assuming it works with standard Mame if that uses DirectInput too). Can anyone confirm that it is actually working for them? I havn't had any feedback saying it's actually working. Until I get a bit more of a feel for what may be happening or going wrong, I don't know how to go about debugging this. The actual coin insert part of the program works separately (the part where it detects a coin drop key press and makes a sound), so it seems the problem may lie in the DirectInput injection code. You could also test to see if it can auto-skip the disclaimer screens. But if it can't find a window named "MAME:*" then it won't find Mame. If you can run your version of Mame, then Alt-TAB out to the desktop, check if the name of the process on the taskbar is called "MAME: *name_of_rom*", and get back to me.

I am having the exact same problem.  My window says:

MAME: Ms. Pac-Man [mspacman]

[headkaze]

Ok, please tell me the version of DirectX you have (Start->Run->"dxdiag"). I'm thinking about releasing a "debug" version of CoinDrop that will output dialog boxes of what is going on to help me figure out what is happening. Also, please tell me the the version of Mame you are using and Operating System. There is also an issue if you are running a unicode version of Mame which means the actual language settings could effect things. On a final note, I did notice that Mame had a backup input system if DirectInput fails. This means CoinDrop will not work, as it intercepts DirectInput traffic only and injects keystrokes to DirectInput. I will release the debug version soon, stay tuned.

[D5A1AC]

I have DX 9.0c. I also have english (United states), (Australia) as well as the Japanese language packs installed on my computer. Thanks for trying to sort this out.

[headkaze]

Make sure there is only one instance of CoinDrop.exe running. Press CTRL-ALT-DEL, run task manager, then sort the process list alphabetically (click the area above the list). Make sure you only have one CoinDrop.exe running at one time.

1. Run Mame32 GUI from explorer rather than from a front-end (perhaps it dosn't work with MameWah, I don't know I only tested with GameEx).

2. Press '5' a few times to hear a chime meaning CoinDrop is counting credits.

3. Launch a mame game (something simple like 1942)

4. Once it's loaded press '1' to start (it should drop a coin and start).

No go? Ok, wait for the debug version

[loadman]

Hi I just followed your instructions and it worked fine playing 1942 through mame32.

However it didn't work using MaLa Fe

:-(

[youki]

I suppose it is because Mala already uses Hooks for something , and does not manage well the hook queue. Or it is the coin drop tool.

[swindus]

Hi I just followed your instructions and it worked fine playing 1942 through mame32.

However it didn't work using MaLa Fe

:-(

just rename the file malakeyhook.dll from the mala dir to malakeyhook.dl_, restart mala and try again. mala don't uses any hooks then. the hook is only needed on win98 systems to quit fullscreen directx apps.

[Spartan]

Ok, please tell me the version of DirectX you have (Start->Run->"dxdiag"). I'm thinking about releasing a "debug" version of CoinDrop that will output dialog boxes of what is going on to help me figure out what is happening. Also, please tell me the the version of Mame you are using and Operating System. There is also an issue if you are running a unicode version of Mame which means the actual language settings could effect things. On a final note, I did notice that Mame had a backup input system if DirectInput fails. This means CoinDrop will not work, as it intercepts DirectInput traffic only and injects keystrokes to DirectInput. I will release the debug version soon, stay tuned.

OS: XP Pro
DirectX: 9.0c
MAME: .101 (custom built winmame so that all dip switches default to cocktail)
Frontend: MaLa

Edit -- I just saw the post about the MaLa keyhook.  I'll rename that dll and try it again.  This app won't work over VNC, will it? 

[neomause2003]

CoinDrop v1.1 By Headkaze
=========================

-= DESCRIPTION =-

This program will allow you to send coin drops to Mame from within your front-end. It runs in the background using a very small amount of CPU. When it detects a coin drop it will play a sound effect and store the amount of coins in memory. When you start Mame you can press the start keys and a credit is automatically registerd and starts the game. Dropping coins outside of Mame means you can carry over credits to multiple games.

-= FAQ =-

1. How do I set this thing up on my cab?

Just extract the folder to somewhere on your machine and create a link to CoinDrop.exe on bootup.

2. Where can I change the key settings?

Just open CoinDrop.ini in notepad and follow the instructions.

-= VERSION HISTORY =-

Version 1.1 (25-12-2005) : You now press the Start keys to drop coins and can now carry on credits to multiple games.
Version 1.0 (24-12-2005) : First Release

-----------------------------------------------

TERMS OF USE: This program is illegal to use in a commercial setting. If this program is found on a machine in a commericial environment you will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Download

** Please post links to your favourite coin drop wav sounds. **

How to download the program??
the link no found

[headkaze]

So is the problem only related to MaLa? Or should I still bother with a debug version?

[Spartan]

So is the problem only related to MaLa? Or should I still bother with a debug version?

I haven't had a chance to look into it -- my parents are in town this weekend.

[Grasshopper]

So is the problem only related to MaLa? Or should I still bother with a debug version?

No, I can't get it to work and I don't use MaLa.

[Spartan]

So is the problem only related to MaLa? Or should I still bother with a debug version?

I haven't had a chance to look into it -- my parents are in town this weekend.

Ok, had a chance to look at it and no luck.

[cbcellman33]

I agree totally with grasshopper...he said it all and very well..this is a good idea and i think its stupid for people to disagree when they are using ILLEGAL roms. I guess all the pople that think its bad buy 1500 roms lol

[SirPoonga]

I agree totally with grasshopper...he said it all and very well..this is a good idea and i think its stupid for people to disagree when they are using ILLEGAL roms. I guess all the pople that think its bad buy 1500 roms lol

Will you guys give this a rest.  You assume everyone uses illegal roms.

[headkaze]

I think i may have found the bug in the code causing it to not find the Mame window on some machines. Please IM if you can't get it to work and I will give you the new one to test. Thanks.

[headkaze]

New version 1.2.

I have added "WhiteList" and "BlackList" options to the ini file. The WhiteList is used to specify executables of that must be running to process a coin drop. The BlackList is used to specify executables that must not be running to process a coin drop.

Eg.
WhiteList=GameEx.exe
BlackList=VisualBoyAdvance.exe;ePSXe.exe

[headkaze]

Some people are misinterpreting how CoinDrop works, since version 1.1 it has changed.

This is a message I got from someone, as you will note you have to press start to drop a coin. Also, it will not carry over credits once you have inserted them within a game. Perhaps I could add the feature that if you quit a game before using all your credits I could add this to the CoinDrop credit total - but for now, just don't drop in credits in a game unless you want to use them.

How I thought it worked:
-> enter a coin from frontend
-> start game
-> game would come up with 1 credit showing

How it does works:
-> enter coin from frontend
-> start game
-> game shows 0 credits
-> pressing 1 or 2 player start enters coins and starts game

[headkaze]

Version 1.3. Okay, now you can carry over credits you insert in Mame but do not play.

Eg. If your in a game, you insert a coin, you can exit, select another game, and use the coin in that game instead.

[loadman]

Actually, you can still get a copy, you just have to message me in this forum with a link to your project page and I will give you a password and url to download.

Thanks I got it. With MAME 32 it worked perfectly.

With MaLa it didn't work at all until I applied the tip from SWINDUS of renaming a .dll file. After that within the MaLa FE I could add credits (by the sound). But when I launch 1942 it didn't work and to make things worse game controls were very sluggish.

As instructed I used the test version as well. It had the same results:
As requested below is a list of windows that came up:
-'Dihook checking process x 2 windows (when 1st launched coindrop)
-'Dihook checking process x 1 window

[headkaze]

Ok, I don't know what exactly is happening here, but you are not getting the critical messages. The following should occur...

The messages I am looking for are:

- "DIHook Checking Process" (should appear a few times)
- "MAME Found"

Now you launch 1942 from Mame32

- "DirectInputCreateA Trapped" (if you don't get this message it's not using DirectInput)
- "MAME: 1942 (set 1) [1942]"
- "Ready Status OK"

If you don't get the "DirectInputCreateA Trapped" message then it's not finding DirectInput. This is the method I use to intercept and inject keys into Mame. Ok, I've just updated CoinDrop again, this time it also intercepts the Unicode version of DI called DirectInputCreateW. Try this out and if you still don't get the message that DirectInputCreate is being trapped then DI is not being used on your system. I breifly looked at the Mame source and it looks like it has a backup method of reading input using GetAsyncKeyState. Perhaps this is what is happening here. Anyway try the new version and get back to me. Appreciate your help, thanks.

[loadman]

Hello again,

[MikesMame]

Headkase, I don't have a project page yet. Can I still get a copy of your CoinDrop? Thanks, MIKE

[whatzcrackn]

How can I get the link?

[headkaze]

To all the people asking for CoinDrop without a project page... no I will not send you CoinDrop. Your missing the whole point of why I'm not making it freely available. Only if you can prove to me you are a homebrewer by providing a link to a project page will I send you a copy. Sorry, but the debate about this is over and it's my final decision.

[SirPoonga]

You know I am not fond of the program but if you are going to be working on it you might as well release it.  What says that the link they send you isn't a random one pulled off the project announcements forum?

[whatzcrackn]

To all the people asking for CoinDrop without a project page... no I will not send you CoinDrop. Your missing the whole point of why I'm not making it freely available. Only if you can prove to me you are a homebrewer by providing a link to a project page will I send you a copy. Sorry, but the debate about this is over and it's my final decision.

Boo.....Boo.......

[headkaze]

Hey look, it's the right thing to do when you look at it. I'm trying to respect the views presented by some of the BYOAC crew. I'd like to see them post now and back me up on how I'm dealing with this, or should I just make it public again? Comon it's easy to tear an idea down, how about supporting me in my decision to limit it's distribution?

You know I am not fond of the program but if you are going to be working on it you might as well release it.  What says that the link they send you isn't a random one pulled off the project announcements forum?

Your not fond of it, but think I should release it? I don't get that statement, kinda like a contradiction. Ok, people might give me a bogus link, so what, I can't possibly traffic cop every request I get properly right? At least I'm doing something to ease the mind of people who bag the program. Look, I'm only trying to make everyone happy here.. the Mame developers, the BYOAC people against it, and all that. This is my attempt at making CoinDrop available without pissing everyone off. It's the best I can do sorry..

[JoyMonkey]

I think you should leave it as it is, since CoinDrop is only morally useful if used in a home environment. I think you're doing an excellent job of keeping CoinDrop legit, so many other people would have just posted it on an anonymous website.
It shouldn't be a big deal for anyone here to have to post a link to a project, it's not really a lot to ask from any of us.

[Farmboy90]

Honestly bro, I would just post it.  If people on this board get bent out of shape they are being silly in my opinion.  A bit hipocritical at least. 

They don't need to download it if they don't want it.  You aren't doing anything remotely against the forum rules.  So I say post it.

This is a religious debate and you can't make head way with the issue either way, so just do what you feel is best for you and your contribution to this great community.


Abruptly switching gears....

What does your software do in this case:
- I load up a bunch of credits while in the game.  I only use one or two of them and then exit back to the front end.  I select another game and play that.

Will the unused credits (entered in another game - not via the FE), be available in the new game?

[DrewKaree]

Comon it's easy to tear an idea down, how about supporting me in my decision to limit it's distribution?

The common theme behind people AGAINST it is that it shouldn't be done, period.  Why would someone who thinks in such a way wish to support you limiting its distribution? 

That's like saying "I know you don't want me to sell ANY crack, but if I just sell it on this one corner instead of all over the city like I wanted to, then you should support that"

And what SirP is saying is that CLEARLY, you aren't going to stop working on it, so go all out with it.  Don't "pretend" you're being some "traffic cop", since you yourself acknowledge it's a futile effort. 

Let EVERYONE speed if you aren't going to stop EVERYONE. 

You're being pedantic by putting up "rules" you admit you can't enforce.

[MikesMame]

To all the people asking for CoinDrop without a project page... no I will not send you CoinDrop. Your missing the whole point of why I'm not making it freely available. Only if you can prove to me you are a homebrewer by providing a link to a project page will I send you a copy. Sorry, but the debate about this is over and it's my final decision.

Fair enough. I will conply with your request.

MIKE

[headkaze]

Abruptly switching gears....

What does your software do in this case:
- I load up a bunch of credits while in the game.  I only use one or two of them and then exit back to the front end.  I select another game and play that.

Will the unused credits (entered in another game - not via the FE), be available in the new game?

Yes, thats the new feature of CoinDrop v1.3

[headkaze]

Comon it's easy to tear an idea down, how about supporting me in my decision to limit it's distribution?

The common theme behind people AGAINST it is that it shouldn't be done, period.  Why would someone who thinks in such a way wish to support you limiting its distribution? 

That's like saying "I know you don't want me to sell ANY crack, but if I just sell it on this one corner instead of all over the city like I wanted to, then you should support that"

And what SirP is saying is that CLEARLY, you aren't going to stop working on it, so go all out with it.  Don't "pretend" you're being some "traffic cop", since you yourself acknowledge it's a futile effort. 

Let EVERYONE speed if you aren't going to stop EVERYONE. 

You're being pedantic by putting up "rules" you admit you can't enforce.

So what your saying is that it's "all or nothing". So the legit portion of people who will use this on their own home machines to teach kids how to value credits without confusing them, or so friends who drop coins in at the wrong time make your cab look mediocure should suffer as well. Because there is a chance that someone will abuse it for commercial gain. Well, such a program will never work flawlessly so I don't believe it could be used in a commercial setting anyway. There is a moment between the game start and when it actually accepts coins. If you drop coins in at this time you will lose them. What does this mean? Well it means people won't tollerate a system that dosn't work 100%. Like if you have instructions on your "commercial Mame machine" saying "only insert coins after a game starts". It dosn't work (apparently), so I believe it's not viable anyway. You can't commercialise a system that only works some of the time. For the kids or friends that this is designed for, a few credits lost is just tough luck.

[SirPoonga]

So the legit portion of people who will use this on their own home machines to teach kids how to value credits without confusing them, or so friends who drop coins in at the wrong time make your cab look mediocure should suffer as well.

I like comments like this.  Without this program people will have to learn to pay attention   especially since the credits don't cost them anything.  Either way people learn something.

Your not fond of it, but think I should release it? I don't get that statement, kinda like a contradiction.

Right, I am not fond of it but I didn't say you shouldn't release it.  That's up to you.  You can see my first couple of replies on this thread on why I think a program like this doesn't add anything to the cabinet.  Especially since the credits are free.  You loose them just add more.

My point was if you are going to do security make it something worthwhile.  It's like those stupid DRM copy protection programs on CDs.  Just disable autorun and you can now copy the CD.  Basically there is no security.  And that's what I am saying about your post a project link idea.  That really isn't security, so either not make it available or make it available. 

[SirPoonga]

So the legit portion of people who will use this on their own home machines to teach kids how to value credits without confusing them, or so friends who drop coins in at the wrong time make your cab look mediocure should suffer as well.

I like comments like this.  Without this program people will have to learn to pay attention   especially since the credits don't cost them anything.  Either way people learn something.  Actually, in a reward system I'd find that having the ability to loose credits would teach the kids about spending wisely.

Your not fond of it, but think I should release it? I don't get that statement, kinda like a contradiction.

Right, I am not fond of it but I didn't say you shouldn't release it.  That's up to you.  You can see my first couple of replies on this thread on why I think a program like this doesn't add anything to the cabinet.  Especially since the credits are free.  You loose them just add more.

My point was if you are going to do security make it something worthwhile.  It's like those stupid DRM copy protection programs on CDs.  Just disable autorun and you can now copy the CD.  Basically there is no security.  And that's what I am saying about your post a project link idea.  That really isn't security, so either not make it available or make it available. 

[mahuti]

I agree with SirPoonga

...make it available

He demands it... I think the rest of us should back him on this.

How's that for taking something out of context.

[Howard_Casto]

My 2 cents.... if you truely wish to respect the wishes of us who think it is a bad idea, then you would cease development.  Unfortunately you were already foolish enough to make a release so it is too late for that.  We live in a digital age, once the "genie is out of the bottle" there is no way of putting it back in.

I'm sorry but I just can't see a legitimate use for such a program.  If you are using coins in your home cab then you are illegally gaining funds from it (in most cases).  If you aren't then it really isn't a big deal if someone tries to insert coins in a fe and "loses" some.  If you are trying to teach your kids the value of a dollar, give them a piggy bank.  If you wish to limit your childs play time simply spend some time with the little monster and make him/her quit playing when you see fit. 

I'm not ranting either way.. I'm just saying, this isn't an issue you can ride the fence on, just take a side and stick with it. 

[MikeQ]

My 2 cents.... if you truely wish to respect the wishes of us who think it is a bad idea, then you would cease development.  Unfortunately you were already foolish enough to make a release so it is too late for that.  We live in a digital age, once the "genie is out of the bottle" there is no way of putting it back in.

I'm sorry but I just can't see a legitimate use for such a program.  If you are using coins in your home cab then you are illegally gaining funds from it (in most cases).  If you aren't then it really isn't a big deal if someone tries to insert coins in a fe and "loses" some.  If you are trying to teach your kids the value of a dollar, give them a piggy bank.  If you wish to limit your childs play time simply spend some time with the little monster and make him/her quit playing when you see fit. 

I'm not ranting either way.. I'm just saying, this isn't an issue you can ride the fence on, just take a side and stick with it. 

This is awfully hypocritical for someone who ask for compensation for modifying MAME code:
This is clearly a no-no.

Name: Dual Screen Mame Hack


Description: For you 2k/xp users, this is the holy grail of all mame variants. I've managed to hack mame to span its output across two monitors! This means that playchoice 10 and punchout can be played they way they were meant to be. This also means that the annoying second monitor that wastes space on some games can be moved off screen. Shown in the picture is the pc10 version of contra on my computer and the pch10 menu on my psone screen.

Level of Completion: 15%... Right now this is just a crude hack. A lot of work needs to be done to make it configurable and user-friendly.

Suggested Donation: A referral to a free Xbox 360. Click the Preview to Sign up.

Number of Completed referrals: 0

Referrals Still Needed: 8

Release Priority: Low... The project is still in active development, but my psone monitor isn't installed in my mame cab, so I have no real use for it. I am aware, however, that this may be a popular item, so I have linked it to the best "motivation." A free 360 will REALLY motivate me to finish this hack.

[SlyDog]

wow this sounds like something i have been looking for.   

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=49816.0

Not to make money but just curious how much I would have spent had i actually used real quarters to play the games.   I have a key logger right now and in one week i pressed 5 (coin 1) 387 times which is about 97 bucks.

It sounds like another little app for personal use.

[jelwell]

Thanks for this! I can't wait to try it out.

You just have to ignore the naysayers. They don't understand that some of us are trying to recreate nostalgia. We spend a whole lot of effort on an "Illusion of Credibility" this is very similar to a good movie's "Suspension of Disbelief". If we can mimic everything down to the Coin Door, the atmosphere, it's like we're transported back in time to that Arcade in 1982, or into a Galaxy far far away. As soon as you see the man behind the curtain the illusion is broken and you're playing a crappy recreation rather than reliving a wondrous memory.

We could just push a button to get an extra credit. But we don't want to break that illusion. I don't recall a fury of naysayers when people posted on how to boot straight into Mamewah. Or when someone figured out how to wire a coin door to trigger MAME.

Anything to keep the illusion real is useful in my book.
Joseph Elwell.

[boykster]

Thanks for this! I can't wait to try it out.

You just have to ignore the naysayers. They don't understand that some of us are trying to recreate nostalgia. We spend a whole lot of effort on an "Illusion of Credibility" this is very similar to a good movie's "Suspension of Disbelief". If we can mimic everything down to the Coin Door, the atmosphere, it's like we're transported back in time to that Arcade in 1982, or into a Galaxy far far away. As soon as you see the man behind the curtain the illusion is broken and you're playing a crappy recreation rather than reliving a wondrous memory.

We could just push a button to get an extra credit. But we don't want to break that illusion. I don't recall a fury of naysayers when people posted on how to boot straight into Mamewah. Or when someone figured out how to wire a coin door to trigger MAME.

Anything to keep the illusion real is useful in my book.
Joseph Elwell.

Nothin personal, but I don't remember any classic arcade games in '82 that ran a frontend....and took quarters and transferred em to any other game.

But otherwise, cool program...just use it responsibly

[DrewKaree]

Sammaz,

While I didn't send you a virus, I still acted foolishly and dragged others in to help me be an even bigger ass

I didn't stop to consider what I was doing or the end result of my actions, and what I did was too harsh. 

I shoulda been the bigger man in the end, and I ended up being the smallest of all.  I have no good excuse for what I did. 

I'm sorry.

[markrvp]

I'm sorry.

And fat.

[boykster]

wth am I doin posting here anyway...I don't even have a cab

me <-----------POSER

 

[DrewKaree]

Anyway...I got v1.0 with no .ini file...not working with mamewah

*Will trade for v1.3* Obo!

lol

Good times...good times.

To get a copy you must IM me with a link to your project page.

A picture of your two cabs is not a project page.

I have removed the download, so if you missed it, too bad. Hopefully only some homebrewer's here have a copy. If you want a copy and can prove to me that you are a genuine homebrewer, then I will give you a url and password (PM me your project page). Hopefully this solves the issue somewhat.

The reason I have done this is mainly because of the comments by Haze. I have to respect the wishes of the Mame developers and that's that. I will continue the development and try to fix any bugs etc. so post any problems you have here.

Since the author has stated as much, I will assume that in his mind, you HAVE NOT proven you aren't going to bastardize his project for monetary reasons. 

The author's second point is that he is attempting to respect the wishes of the MAME developers.  In working to circumvent the author, you have demonstrated you don't feel the need to respect ANYONE'S wishes, and are therefore no longer worthy of MY time other than to respond to:

• Your continued pleading to others to ASSIST you in circumventing the author
• Your earlier statement that when you thought you obtained the program, you immediately forwarded it to several others looking to do the exact same thing - ignore and disrespect the author
• Your continued spamming of the board and its members in PM's despite being told be AT LEAST three people that it's EXTREMELY TACKY and UNWANTED - and TO STOP IT
• Your continued ignorance of visual verification and admonishment for your actions to circumvent the author's wishes
• The definite appearance of you quite probably doing something illegal with this program - since you WON'T respect the author's wishes, there is NO reason for anyone to believe you WON'T use this illegally

Just because I did something wrong didn't mean I wasn't going to comment on the sheer stupidity of your actions.  I suspect you are a friend of a former troublemaker, or the troublemaker himself.  I took you OFF of my ignore list when I realized I did something highly inappropriate.  After your current actions, I realize you are deserving of your place back on my ignore list, where you will go.  I also have nothing more to say to you - EVER.

Your CURRENT PM to me that demonstrates YET AGAIN the issues with you isn't done, and won't be done until you are no longer a member of this place. 

[Lilwolf]

anyone ever wonder if the mame developers don't worry about original real hardware (720,  49way, SNK rotatries, ect) because it IS so easy to utilize their code for bad use? 

When it would be so easy to hack mame into a multi cab because of programs like this (and there are others).  They just aren't realy interested in helping anyone with a cab?

just curious.  Seems like many mame devs don't care about working with real hardware.   And that seems like the first thing they would do for nearly all drivers. 

[markrvp]

anyone ever wonder if the mame developers don't worry about original real hardware (720,  49way, SNK rotatries, ect) because it IS so easy to utilize their code for bad use? 

When it would be so easy to hack mame into a multi cab because of programs like this (and there are others).  They just aren't realy interested in helping anyone with a cab?

just curious.  Seems like many mame devs don't care about working with real hardware.   And that seems like the first thing they would do for nearly all drivers. 

After reading the interview with Aaron Giles, I think it's probably because they don't own any real arcade controls, just a few pcbs.  They work with a keyboard and mouse and that's all that exists for them.

[headkaze]

This program is no longer supported. Please do not PM me anymore. I will be locking this thread. Sorry.