Someone has already modified the infamous Target machine

[MaximRecoil]

Don't know if this has been posted yet...

Have you all seen the thread on RGVAC? (I suppose you have all heard that that Target machine was programmed by Clay Cowgill and uses real emulation, right? [link])

He slapped a new control panel with what look to be Happ controls onto it. He has pictures, including some pictures of the inside of the machine here:

[grueinthebox]

Next trick should be a decent 19" TV...

[MaximRecoil]

Next trick should be a decent 19" TV...

Yeah, there is certainly enough room for one if you don't mind ditching some of that beautiful artwork (lol) that is taking up most of the real estate there in the front.

I would brace the hell out of the inside too, like a framework of 2x4's or something, to add both weight and structural integrity. Those panels can't be more than 3/8".

[mr.Curmudgeon]

And here's a jerkoff who is selling the Target machines on eBay for $2000 (buyitnow)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6234561344

How do people get away with this crap?



mrC

[AtomSmasher]

I'm just hoping these things start to fall apart pretty quickly so I can pick up the multigame board it uses for real cheap in a few months.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm just hoping these things start to fall apart pretty quickly so I can pick up the multigame board it uses for real cheap in a few months.

You wouldn't want it.... it's the equivelent of a plug-n-play tv games pcb. 

As a matter of fact, I'd bet my last dollar that the company that makes these cabs' software also make the little tv games units for jakks.

[quarterback]

I'd bet my last dollar that the company that makes these cabs' software also make the little tv games units for jakks.

You mean Clay?

I suppose you have all heard that that Target machine was programmed by Clay Cowgill and uses real emulation, right? [link])

[missioncontrol]

Saturday I was out and about with the family and we went to Target again. I tried it out again.

yep, it's still a peice of crap.

[ChadTower]

Why would you mod one of these?  They cost 3x what they are worth.  Okay, let's overspend on it and put a real CP on it... then we'll upgrade the TV... then we have to give the cab some weight since it wants to flip over when I play Robotron...

...so now I'm up to $1000 for the stupid thing and have what is basically a TV out game in an inferior $50 JAMMA cab.

[Stingray]

I'd bet my last dollar that the company that makes these cabs' software also make the little tv games units for jakks.

You mean Clay?

I suppose you have all heard that that Target machine was programmed by Clay Cowgill and uses real emulation, right? [link])

I think he was referring to the company that actually produces the PBCs, not the person who did the programming.

-S

[Ken Layton]

I think the best modification for this 'machine' is to make it into firewood!

[ChadTower]

It's not wood, Ken... won't burn. 

[missioncontrol]

I bet it would burn, but it would be to quick to produce any real heat

[Grasshopper]

I'd bet my last dollar that the company that makes these cabs' software also make the little tv games units for jakks.

You mean Clay?

I suppose you have all heard that that Target machine was programmed by Clay Cowgill and uses real emulation, right? [link])

I think he was referring to the company that actually produces the PBCs, not the person who did the programming.

-S

Wouldn't it be great though if Jakks or someone produced one of their Plug & Play units incorporating all the classic Williams games accurately emulated.

[MaximRecoil]

Why would you mod one of these?

[ChadTower]

Yeah, I'm jealous that they spent $500 on a cab with a $150 board in it...

[MaximRecoil]

Yeah, I'm jealous that they spent $500 on a cab with a $150 board in it...

$365

[ChadTower]

It has a Clay Cowgill multi-Williams board in it, well, in a manner of speaking anyway.

Clay's website listing of his Multiwilliams kit

Does require an original board, but certainly not at $300+.

[nostrebor]

The MW kit is no longer available. The jamma MW board is also no longer available. The only one that is available currently is the Clay load your own roms board, which is capable of running the MW games that were available on the jamma board.

Price = $365

[MaximRecoil]

It has a Clay Cowgill multi-Williams board in it, well, in a manner of speaking anyway.

Clay's website listing of his Multiwilliams kit

Does require an original board, but certainly not at $300+.

Well, the Target machine has twice the games of Clay's Multi-Williams kit that you linked to, all 6 of them plus 6 more.

I'm not saying it's the deal of the century, but it's not a $20 Jakks in there like some people are claiming either.

[clanggedin]

I wish Clay would sell these boards seperately. I would love to have a Multi-Williams board with Timber and Tapper on it too.

[RayB]

Read up on RGVAC... Though this is emulated, there have been compromises on the sound. I'm also left wondering if the frame rate is 100% or not. The emulation is done on custom ASICs, and who knows maybe he had to keep performance down to 30 fps to keep the costs down??

[markrvp]

Does the Robotron emulation on the Multi-Jamma board (that you can load your own ROMs onto) work correctly or is it fast like it was in MAME prior to version .100?

[RayB]

Follow up to my post... According to the programmer of the emulation, the games are running at FULL frame-rate, and in his opinion is "better than MAME". The exception though is that games that would normally use a vertical monitor have had certain graphical elements moved (for example the radar in Sinistar is no longer at the top, but on the side).

[Howard_Casto]

Follow up to my post... According to the programmer of the emulation, the games are running at FULL frame-rate, and in his opinion is "better than MAME". The exception though is that games that would normally use a vertical monitor have had certain graphical elements moved (for example the radar in Sinistar is no longer at the top, but on the side).

In other words... they are hacked up messes just like the jakks boxes that modified the layout of games like digdug and pacman. 

[versapak]

In other words... they are hacked up messes just like the jakks boxes that modified the layout of games like digdug and pacman.

As long as the gameplay is intact, I could care less about a few layout changes.

I'd actually rather they alter the layout, so as to make use of the horizontal display, than leave it with black bars and a smaller playfield.

The greatness in classics like Pac-Man was definitely not in the fact that the number of lives was indicated below the playfield.

[RayB]

In other words... they are hacked up messes just like the jakks boxes that modified the layout of games like digdug and pacman.

[ChadTower]

How exactly does one EMULATE a game that has a CHANGED layout and thus CHANGED source code?

What is the difference between CHANGED and REPROGRAMMED?

[SirPoonga]

Did anyone notice that there is a cartridge above the tv on the machine?

[versapak]

Emulated implies to me that the game is still running as if on the original hardware. Meaning you should be able to put the rom to the original hardware, and it should work.

Reprogrammed would imply to me that it was built for new/different hardware, and it would not work on the original hardware.

[versapak]

Did anyone notice that there is a cartridge above the tv on the machine?

Yep, it was pointed out in another thread about these cabs.


I dunno if any info has come out about it though.

[ChadTower]

Emulated implies to me that the game is still running as if on the original hardware. Meaning you should be able to put the rom to the original hardware, and it should work.

Reprogrammed would imply to me that it was built for new/different hardware, and it would not work on the original hardware.

Not quite that black and white... it can also be changed and still capable of running on the original hardware.  A simple layout change would rearrange the display but if done correctly remain runnable on the original boards.  That could be what was done here.

If that is the case, it is emulated, but it is not the purely original binary.  It would be both changed and emulated...

[versapak]

Not quite that black and white... it can also be changed and still capable of running on the original hardware. A simple layout change would rearrange the display but if done correctly remain runnable on the original boards. That could be what was done here.

If that is the case, it is emulated, but it is not the purely original binary. It would be both changed and emulated...

Ummmmm

That is exactly what I was saying.


Never said it was the original running unaltered. I was just stating that emulation implies that it was designed to run as if on the original hardware.

Reprogrammed is too general a term to be using anyway. It could mean something as basic as changing a line or two of text, to altering every bit of code.

Either way...

If the game is emulated, regardless of any layout or other code changes, it is still designed to be running on different hardware, then it is actually being run on.

So my main point is...

Layout changes could be made, while still keeping the actual gameplay identical to the original, therefore I fail to see any problem with the changes, and actually welcome them, since we are talking about better utilizing screen space.

[MaximRecoil]

Did anyone notice that there is a cartridge above the tv on the machine?

Yeah, that cartridge seems to contain all the hardware and software. Not really a cartridge in the traditional sense. The only thing you see in the depths of that cartridge bay if you remove it are the pins for the A/V outs. It is like a self-contained preloaded-with-games game console with a housing shaped like a cartridge. I'd imagine that they had future expandability in mind, like a whole new set of 12 games or whatever that you just plug in, which may or may not ever be used.

[ChadTower]

Layout changes could be made, while still keeping the actual gameplay identical to the original, therefore I fail to see any problem with the changes, and actually welcome them, since we are talking about better utilizing screen space.

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to RayB.

This all implies that they somehow got the original source, anyway, or else did a nice little hex hack or decompile.

[versapak]

Layout changes could be made, while still keeping the actual gameplay identical to the original, therefore I fail to see any problem with the changes, and actually welcome them, since we are talking about better utilizing screen space.

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to RayB.

This all implies that they somehow got the original source, anyway, or else did a nice little hex hack or decompile.

I see.

Carry on then.


Though, for the record...

You did quote me.


Though I guess you were just adding on to my more black and white reponse.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, I was elaborating on your response... unclear chain of events.

 

[RayB]

Chad,
It's a combination of things. There's a couple ways to do it. First, it's not too hard to disassemble the code of those games. If you are an ASM expert, it will all make sense. Then you need only tweak a few numbers here and there in the original [rom] code.

Other technique is to "trap" output. What that means is the emulator is running the code exactly as original but you can add "traps" that look for certain things such as video output. You then render portions of it in different locations as you want.  Or heck, the easy way would be to simply monitor the score registers and draw your own score wherever you want, using the exact same font data the original uses.

"Reprogrammed" means coded from scratch to look and play the same, but then you're left at the mercy of the coder's skill and faithfulness in reproducing the same experience on a different set of hardware. A programmer who doesn't care, or isn't paid enough, or who has an ass-hat supervisor might not bother to get every little nuance of a game programmed right.

[Stingray]

unclear chain of events.

 

I think I just found a name for my autobiography.

-S

[ChadTower]

See the fish thread for a better one.