Noob help with frontend

[Razor]

I was given an old pc running windows 98 with 128mb ram, and decided to make it into a test mame machine before I make a bartop next year, to familiarise myself with dos versions of mame, as ive only ever used mame32 for just playing games.  The last time I used Dos was years ago, so I dont really know how to work it properly, but my aim was to get the machine booting straight into a frontend, so I could choose my games using a joypad plugged into one of the rear usb ports.

I manged to find out how to stop win98 booting, and have since been testing various frontends to see whats best, (im running dos mame v063b), I can only seem to get one of them to find my roms and have tried looking through loads of txt files, but I cant seem to find anything on it.  The one I did get working was "Femame" which brought up the roms but I couldnt seem to get my joypad working with it.  Is there a frontend anyone would recommend that works with usb joypad, that after playing a game quits back to the frontend? And also how do I get my joypad to work in dos?  The last front end I tried was Arcados which I managed to get to run, but didnt bring up a list of roms, according to the options menu, it was looking in the right folder, so im totally confused.  Any help would be much appreciated 

[Tiger-Heli]

AFAIK, you can't use a USB joypad in Pure DOS.

What I think you want is command-line MAME running under Win98 with a front-end like MAMEwah or EmuLoader or Atomic FE or dozens of others.

[Razor]

Ah okay, that explains why I couldnt get it to work.  Is there a way to boot straight into the frontend?  Or does it have to visably load up windows first? 

[Tiger-Heli]

Ah okay, that explains why I couldnt get it to work.

[Razor]

Okay great, thanks for your help, ill have a search around then

[Razor]

Well I found a lot of info on booting straight into windows, but it all seems to be using XP, not windows 98, I did however see someone suggested putting up a mame theme and hiding all the desktop icons and mouse, then putting a shortcut to the frontend in the startup folder.  Does anyone know what the best command line version of mame to use is, with windows 98, 128mb ram?  Also im still having trouble using a frontend, mamewah just seems to crash the pc, and a few of the others i tried (visual mame/quickmame) cant seem to see my roms.  I just need a simple frontend that uses joypad to select games. cutting out the need for keyboard & mouse.

[Tiger-Heli]

Well I found a lot of info on booting straight into windows, but it all seems to be using XP, not windows 98, I did however see someone suggested putting up a mame theme and hiding all the desktop icons and mouse, then putting a shortcut to the frontend in the startup folder.

[Razor]

I did try Atomic, but couldnt get it to work for me, something to do with me, rather than the software im sure.  In the end I decided on using Dreads Quick Mame, which seemed simple enough, I managed to get it listing my roms okay, but when it goes to launch it, I get a blue screen saying fatal exeption error, then have to reboot.  Im using it with the 063b version of mame, which I tested from Dos and works fine with games in Dos.

***Quick update*** I installed an unnoficial service pack upgrade which I found on the net, im no longer getting the blue error screen, but when QM says its launching a game, the screen goes black for 2 seconds, then quits to desktop 

[Razor]

Also on another note, I cant seem to change windows 98 out of 16 colour mode, there only appears to be 16 or 8 colours to choose from in the display options, surely this cant be so!! 

[Tiger-Heli]

Errrrrm -

Screen going black - Verify the game launches properly from the command line.

[Razor]

Sorry forgot to post, I had already verified from command line, ive only got 5 games in rom folder as a test at the moment, but they are all working fine using command line in dos.  I tried running the frontend in dos too, which loads up fine (minus the control usb controller, which is fine ,as you pointed out doesnt work in pure dos), tried choosing game, same sort of thing happens, frontend quits to dos prompt, no error messages that I can see.

With regard to the monitor, the desktop is awful, its very blocky, I tried installing the monitor drivers again, but to no avail, this was an old pc of my parents, but I seem to remember the desktop not looking that bad.  But ill check out that link you gave me, once again thank you.

[Tiger-Heli]

Sorry forgot to post, I had already verified from command line, ive only got 5 games in rom folder as a test at the moment, but they are all working fine using command line in dos.

Ah, but I think your DOS Mame versions and windows command line versions are different, no?

Do the games run from a DOS box (not pure DOS, - the MS-DOS prompt under Accessories), using the same MAME version as the frontend is pointing to, but calling them directly - i.e. "MAME galaga".

With regard to the monitor, the desktop is awful, its very blocky, I tried installing the monitor drivers again, but to no avail, this was an old pc of my parents, but I seem to remember the desktop not looking that bad.

[Razor]

Not at all, youve been a great help, its been a learning curve for me, as even though ill use a much better pc for my actual cab, its nice to understand how it all works in case I should use a pc like this for emulation in the future.  Im not entirely sure about the monitor, all I know is that when I tested a couple of other emulators on the pc, it came up with an error and asked me to change to 256 colour mode, which promted me to think (along with the terrible desktop background) that it wasnt as it should be.  Ill try and find out what graphics card it is and update the drivers.

Okay, I tested using the ms-dos prompt from within windows, ie "DMAMEPP 1942", and the roms work fine,  as they do using Pure Dos too.  Which I guess means its the front-end.  Like I say it lists my Roms fine, and lets me use the joypad to select them, then says its running them, but goes to desktop again.  Ive looked at all the options from within QM, (there arent many) but keep getting the same thing.  Perhaps I should look for a new frontend, again lol.

[DaemonCollector]

To set the shell in Windows 98 you need to go to the Boot.ini. I think its taht one....there should be a line labled 'SHELL=' just change that to the program you want to use and bye bye windows. if its not that file it should be config.sys. If you don't see these files (they should be in the root of the C drive) just go to your run prompt and type "sysedit" that'll bring up a window to edit any of these files.

If ya need anymore help on this front just let me know. I can tell ya how to completly hide any message that windows may throw at ya.

[Razor]

Okay thanks ill try that now!! Will this still allow me to load up my drivers for usb joypad etc, or will they not be able to load?

[Razor]

typed in sysedit. got 5 windows pop up, none of them have any reference to shell, including config.sys, so I tried editing "boot.ini" from the dos promt, in case it was that, but the file is just blank.

[Tiger-Heli]

For Win98, I think it's MSCONFIG you type at the Run prompt, I could be wrong.

[Tiger-Heli]

Not at all, youve been a great help, its been a learning curve for me, as even though ill use a much better pc for my actual cab, its nice to understand how it all works in case I should use a pc like this for emulation in the future.

There's a paradox here - Emulation and 3D Gaming (I know they are different) require some of the most PC horsepower, so you really are better off using a super high-end PC for the arcade and a slow box for word processing and web-surfing, not that anyone does that in real life.

[DaemonCollector]

MSCONFIG is XP for sure...dono if that works in 98. You may have to add the shell line, let me check what file it belongs in.

[edit]:

its system.ini I was off on both counts o.O

If the line dosn't exist already just add it.

[Razor]

Hi that brings up a system configuration utility, that has various tabs at the top "general,config.sys,autoexec.bat,system.ini,win.ini,startup", under the tab "system.ini" there are some folders, one called Boot.  Inside this is, amoung other lines, is the line "shell=explorer.exe", I assume this is the line I need to change?

[DaemonCollector]

Yea, that should do it too. I've never used msconfig with 98 though, so I'm not sure if it'll do anything else. Let me know how it turns out.

[Razor]

Tiger Heli - I use a high end pc (well high end 2 years ago) for mame32 on this pc, and 3d gaming, which is this pc im on now, but thought I might be able to make something out of this old pc I was given, for my upcoming mame project, ill be running mame32, on xp, ive already brought all the system bits/joysticks etc for it, just waiting to move then I can begin work on it.  I would start now, but I dont fancy lugging a machine down 3 flights of stairs when I move 

[Razor]

Okay DaemonCollector, im gonna try that now then...

[Tiger-Heli]

Hi that brings up a system configuration utility, that has various tabs at the top "general,config.sys,autoexec.bat,system.ini,win.ini,startup", under the tab "system.ini" there are some folders, one called Boot.

[Tiger-Heli]

Tiger Heli - I use a high end pc (well high end 2 years ago) for mame32 on this pc, and 3d gaming, which is this pc im on now, but thought I might be able to make something out of this old pc I was given, for my upcoming mame project, ill be running mame32, on xp, ive already brought all the system bits/joysticks etc for it, just waiting to move then I can begin work on it.

[DaemonCollector]

Its easy to fix a shell problem if it gets messed up in 98, but damn...when I was figuring out how to do it in XP....damn I screwed something up bad. And of course I recently leared of an extreemly easy way to do it without touching the registry

[Razor]

Well I tried that, but it just boots into windows as normal, I checked back to make sure the file had definatly changed, and it had, but no joy

[DaemonCollector]

copy your system.ini file up here and I'll have a looksee

[Razor]

Okay when I go to DOS prompt and do "edit system.ini" I get this come up....

*****DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE***********

This file was created by the System Configuation Utility as a placeholder for your SYSTEM.INI file.  Your actual SYSTEM.INI file has been saved under the name SYSTEM.TSH

[boot]
system.drv=system.drv
drivers=mmsystem.dll
user.exe=user.exe
gdi.exe=gdi.exe
sound.drv=mmsound.drv
dibeng.drv=dibeng.dll
comm.drv=comm.drv
mouse.drv=mouse.drv
keyboard.drv=keyboard.drv
shell=Explorer.exe
*Displayfallback=0


[386Enh]
ebios=*ebios
device=*vshare
device=*dynapage
mouse=*vmouse, msmouse.vxd
device=*vcd
device=*vpd
device=*int13
woafont=dosapp.fon
keyboard=*vkd
display=*vdd, *vflatd

[drivers]
wavemapper=*.drv
MSACM.imadpcm=*.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=*.acm
wave=mmsystem.dll
midi=mmsystem.dll

[mci]
cdaudio=mcicda.drv
sequencer=mciseq.drv
waveaudio=mciwave.drv
avivideo=mciavi.drv
videodisc=mcipionr.drv
vcr=mcivisca.drv

[drivers32]

MSACM.imaadpcm=imaadpm32.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=msadp32.acm
MSACM.msgsm610=msgsm32.acm
MSACM.msg711=msg711.acm
MSACM.trspch=tssoft32.acm
vidc.CVID=iccvid.dll
VIDC.IV31=ir32_32.dll
VIDC.IV32=ir32_32.dll
vidc.MSVC=msvidc32.dll
VID.MRLE=msrie32.dll
msacm.lhacm=lhacm.acm

[Password Lists]
MATT=C:\WINDOWS\MATT001.PWL

[TTFontDimenCache]
0 12=7 12
0 13=0 13
0 14=0 14
0 15=9 15
0 16=10 16
0 10=11 10
0 20=12 20
0 22=13 22


Thats it for system.ini, now heres the system.tsh file......



[boot]
gemfonts.fon=vgaoem.fon
;Rem Tshoot: shell=Explorer.exe
shell=c:explorer.exe
system.drv=system.drv
drivers=mmsystem.dll power drv
user.exe=user.exe
gdi.exe=gdi.exe
sound.drv=mmsound.drv
dibeng.drv=dibeng.dll
comm.drv=comm.drv
mouse.drv=mouse.drv
keyboard.drv=keyboard.drv
*Displayfailback=0

[keyboard]
keyboard.dll=
oemansi.bin=
subtype=
type=4

[boot.description]
system.drv=Standard PC
keyboard.typ=Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
mouse.drv=Standard mouse

[386Enh]
ebios=*ebios
woafont=dosapp.fon
mouse=*vmouse, msmouse.vxd
device=*dynapage
device=*vcd
device=*vpd
device=*int13
device=*enable
keyboard=*vkd

[drivers32]
msacm.lhacm=lhacm.acm
VIDC.VDOM=vdowave.drv
MSACM.imaadpcm=imaadp32.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=msadp32.acm
MSACM=msgsm610=msgsm32.acm
MSACM=msg711=msg711.acm
MSACM.trspch=tssoft32.acm
vidc.CVID=iccvid.dll
VIDC.IV31=ir32_32.dll
VIDC.IV32=ir32_32.dll
vidc.MSVC=msvidc32.dll
VIDC=MRLE=msrie32.dll

[NonWindowsApp]

TTinitalSizes=4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 20 22

[power.drv]

[drivers]
wavemapper=*.drv
MSACM.imaadpcm=*.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=*.acm

[iccvid.drv]

[mciseq.drv]

[mci]
cdaudio=mcicda.drv
sequencer=mciseq.drv
waveaudio=mciwave.drv
avivideo=mciavi.drv
videodisc=mcipionr.drv
ver=mcivisca.drv

[vcache]




Thats all of both files.....

[DaemonCollector]

Have you rebooted the PC since we last tested the MSConfig change? if so change the shell line that is in the system.ini and not the .tsh if not reboot and then do so. Let me know how it turns out.

[Tiger-Heli]

Also - Dos Prompt Edit is saying something about saving the original as system.tsh - Try just editing it in Notepad (Wordpad) and saving it.

[DaemonCollector]

From what i understand the current .ini was created from MSCONFIG and it backed up his old one in the tsh. Which is why I inquired about the reboot, cause it shouldn't be like that anymore, it should have reverted to his origional file.

[Tiger-Heli]

From what i understand the current .ini was created from MSCONFIG and it backed up his old one in the tsh. Which is why I inquired about the reboot, cause it shouldn't be like that anymore, it should have reverted to his origional file.

Ah - that must have been posted while I was typing.

[RayB]

Crapy colors in Windows is a sign you don't have the right VIDEO drivers installed (not Monitor drivers).

[Razor]

Okay ive done that, now its attempting to boot into my front end, but saying "Loading QuickMame..........  QM.DAT not found in current directory or path statement"  So I believe this would have worked, but problem is obviously something to do with my frontend.  What keys do I need to press at boot to take me to the DOS prompt, so I can re-edit the system.ini file? 

[Razor]

Okay RayB, im gonna find out what card it is (I havent got a clue) and see if I can update drivers

[DaemonCollector]

Ok, easy fix there, press F8 just before you the windows logo would appear, go to safe mode. your system.ini is fine now, the issue is your emulator directory needs to be added to the PATH enviromental varible. This guy should be in the autoexec.bat. Just add the full path to the directory to where it says PATH=. I think you need to add a semicolon between directorys...im at work so I can't check right now.

edit: found hwat i was looking for

add this line to the end of your autoexec.bat

set path=%path%;[whatever you want to append]

[Razor]

Okay well thanks for your help, I dont really have a clue what to do with the path things, in my autoexec.bat, theres 2 lines that the front-end put there when I installed it, and im not sure what to do with them.  They arent pointing to where the front-end is (c:\mame063b\), and also the error im getting is something to do with QM.BAT, perhaps I should point them to the mame directory, where QM is unpacked. 

They look like this:

PATH=C:\QM
PATH=C:\QMLAUNCH;%PATH%

[DaemonCollector]

If they're in that order it can be a problem...I'd delete those, and at the very end of the Autoexec file put

path=%path%;[Type the path to where the frontend is unpacked here]

[Razor]

Wohooo, it boots fine into the frontend, but im still having trouble with the front end, as I posted earlier, it lists the games fine, but for some reason when it launches them, it just goes to desktop.  I guess its a question of finding someone else whos used this frontend perhaps.