Why I hate Super Mario 64

[brophog]

I've given this game it's last chance. I generally buy every new console a few years after it's released. Most of the time I'm just catching up on a previous generation when the current one begins.

So about 6 years ago I purchased an N64. One of the first games I bought was Super Mario 64 because it got tremendous reviews from basically everyone on the planet. I had owned all of the previous Mario titles on systems past, so I was pretty happy to have the chance to play the newest of the series.

And I played it, and immediately hated it. To be fair, about once a year I break it out, hoping I've just overlooked the fun factor somewhere. There have been games in the past that I liked, but dislike now, and games in the past that I didn't give the time of day towards, but I appreciate now.

Mario 64 is not one of them. Why? Well, it's pretty simple.

Every Mario game is pretty similiar; your goal is to go through a level until you find the end of it. After doing so, you go to the next level, until finally you finish the game by completing all of the levels. That's it, a nice simple goal of finishing the level. Sure, there are likely other things to do in the level, but they are optional.

Yet, Mario 64 is completely different. When did the object become to collect crap? The previous games had the option to collect coins or other items as a means to improve yourself. Want that extra life? Then collect the coins. Perfectly content otherwise? Then don't bother. It was not the GOAL of the game to collect crap. The goal is to complete the level.

What does Mario 64 do? It actually kicks you OUT of the level multiple times.

Worse, the beloved platforming genre is now defined by this atrocity. Every platformer after that was merely an excuse to run around and collect things like the garbage man at city park.

Anyone else completely befuddled how this game is tolerated, much less embraced as a Mario title?

[duffjr]

this game is awesome.  i don't like any other 3d platform games besides zelda.

[brophog]

Zelda is not a platformer. 3D platformers are unfortunately games where you collect crap (by definition). Zelda is an action adventure game, just as it's 2D predecessors were. To be a platformer, your goal would be to collect rupees, but it's not. Your goal is to complete the dungeons USING the rupees to buy things, much the same way that coins essentially bought a life in 2D Mario games.

They did a good job with Zelda. It's the same game as it was prior, just in 3D.  Mario is not a 3D version of it's predecessors but rather a completely different game using the universe created prior.

Zelda is a GREAT example on why I hate Mario 64. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Minwah]

I liked pretty much all the Sonic games until Sonic Adventure...pretty much the same reason.  They tried to change the game and add RPG sections (thus 'Adventure' I guess) but frankly it was complete ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[duffjr]

i'm not sure i understand where the collecting part comes from in sm64.  you basically have to accomplish tasks and defeat bosses.

[ChadTower]

Quite possibly the best console game ever written.  The largest technological leap over predecessors of any game.  Pushes the limits of the hardware like no other (granted, they half designed the console around Mario 64).  Incredible game you could play for months without going 100%.

[Stingray]

It's not often that this happens, but I am in complete agreement with Chad. It's not only the very best 3D platformer, it's one of the very best games in any genre.

-S

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Mario Sunshine for the Gamecube was pretty sweet...Nice mix of action/adventure and platformer.

I have never finished it because I have A.D.D. when it comes to video games...if they don't move fast enough, I'm on to the next one.

Anyhow, I remember being hooked on Sunshine for quite a while. Lots to do in that game, plus it encourages O.C.D in children, which is fun to watch.


mrC

[Sephroth57]

It's not often that this happens, but I am in complete agreement with Chad. It's not only the very best 3D platformer, it's one of the very best games in any genre.

-S

same here, strange that we all agree on something other than cheesecake

[brophog]

i'm not sure i understand where the collecting part comes from in sm64.

[Stingray]

i'm not sure i understand where the collecting part comes from in sm64.  you basically have to accomplish tasks and defeat bosses.

The entire game is collecting enough stars to defeat Bowser. Not completing levels, but collecting stars........

Uhm, but when you collect a star, you've completed the level.

-S

[ChadTower]

No, there are like 7 stars on every level.

[Stingray]

No, there are like 7 stars on every level.

I'm considering each star to be a level. Seven (or however many) levels per world.

-S

[Sephroth57]

when you change the objective its the same world but sometimes the entire stage layout changes. i consider mario 64 one of the greatest games period, would be in my top 5

[ClubNinja]

Oddly, this is one of the few times I've *disagreed* with Chad.  I've tried to get into SM64 numerous times.  I just can't do it.  The game doesn't engage or captivate me.  I've never been able to understand the charm.

Super Mario World, however, is super top notch in my book.

[ChadTower]

I feel shame when I say I have never completed SM64.   

[shmokes]

All the collecting is optional.  In Super Mario World or Super Mario 3 you were physically blocked on the map and couldn't progress past a certain level on the map until you beat it.  The map in Super Mario 64 accomplishes EXACTLY the same thing with stars.  You get a star when you defeat a boss.  You can go through the entire game and just beat every level and you will collect enough stars to beat the game. 

There are other stars that can be collected on a level, such as by collecting all 100 coins in a level, but this is completely optional, just like the collection stuff has always been.  Chad's right.

[ChadTower]

[Stingray]

I feel shame when I say I have never completed SM64.   

I've finished it, but nowhere near 100%

-S

[shmokes]

I got 100% on that game ages ago, back when I had time to do such things.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, I got up to like 65 stars when I had time for such things... now, I restart, get to 23 stars, and forget to play for three months.

[RayB]

It's an amazing game. Very groundbreaking when it came out.

If you really want to be literal and say it's all about collecting stars, then you might as well also say that previous Mario games were only about touching finish lines.

[melarky]

This is definately one of the greatest games ever made.  I finally got all 120 stars a while back (emulated on my xbox).  That game is also why I bought a DS, for the Mario 64 remake.  I haven't beat the DS game 100% yet (haven't played it in a while), but I know that after  I let it sit for a while, I'll be able to pick it up and play it and get tons of enjoyment out of it again (most recent games can't claim that).

[SOAPboy]

I liked pretty much all the Sonic games until Sonic Adventure...pretty much the same reason.

[Scott84]

Super Mario 64 Made Analog Control The Next Big Thing.

So much so Sony had to go back and add it to its controllers.... 

[brophog]

I always thought I was the only person to hate this game, so it's official. Believe me though, I've tried to like it, but I just don't. Apparently I'm the only one.

[ChadTower]

Reading is not your friend.

You're not even the only one in this thread to dislike it.

[ClubNinja]

I always thought I was the only person to hate this game, so it's official. Believe me though, I've tried to like it, but I just don't. Apparently I'm the only one.

Apparently I don't count.  Oh well.

[RayB]

By the way, it's one thing to look back and try to like this game, and completely another to have experienced it when it came out...

[ChadTower]

He makes a good point.

[brophog]

By the way, it's one thing to look back and try to like this game, and completely another to have experienced it when it came out...

No doubt that's a huge reason for the descrepancy between my opinion and the vast majority of others. I didn't experience it until several years after the fact.

[MaximRecoil]

I played it briefly, several times when it was brand new; when it was on display at the video rental place and later at someone's house; both times very briefly. I hated it. For the record, I love SMB, SMB2 (both the U.S. and the Japanese version), and Super Mario World (not a big fan of SMB3 but it is OK.

I didn't play it enough to dislike it for the reasons you state, but I simply don't cotton to 3D. There has only been one 3D game that I ever got into, and my cousin had to twist my arm because I hated it at first. That was Syphon Filter (and the sequels by extension) for the PlayStation.

Maybe I should give it another try. It is not 3D in itself that irritates me, it is the lack of a clearly defined path requiring effort on my part just to figure out what in the blue hell I am supposed to be doing. That was what made me change my tune about Syphon Filter; my cousin explained a few things, like to check the map and the mission statements. With the ambiguity out of the way, I could sit down and have fun with the game. I still find myself getting lost a lot in 3D video game environments, even when I know exactly where I am supposed to go and what I am supposed to do...even in Syphon Filter + sequels, games I have beaten several times.

[TalkingOctopus]

Unfortunately, Mario64 was just the beginning of the item collection quests.  Almost all modern platformers require a rediculous amount of item collection -- much more than mario64 did.  I recently played through Psychonauts and I couldn't even figure out why I'd want to bother collecting some of the junk.  Here's a comic that has similiar complaints:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/09/27

As a counter example, I really like Rachet & Clank.  The only collecting required consists of weapons and gadgets that have immediate utility.  Who doesn't want to collect a lavagun that will burn enemies?

[RayB]

Item collection started a LONG time before Mario64, back in the 2D world.

[hyiu]

I would also like to voice my $0.0002 cents of personal opinon...

I LIKE MARIO 64 !!!!!  Its a great game !!!!

Yes, on each world (level), you can get star by collecting coin, but that's not all, you have some races, puzzles, and beating bosses, tasks to do.... etc.

Its been yrs, but I think you can finish the game... beat the last bowser after 70 stars.... and there are like 110+ stars....

If my memory serves right, I think I have got all the stars (maybe left one 1 or 2).... that's it..... (but I did visit gamefaqs.com....)  call me a cheater, but some of the places that they hide the stars are quite unique !!...


I think this really is a game where adults and kids can enjoy, and also the player, and the ones watching can also enjoy...
(of course, like all puzzle games... once you beat the game like 100 times, it'll get old...)

but the design of each world.... I really think they have put some serious thoughts about it !!!.... like those water levels...
the swimming.... the view angles... the jumps....

I really think this game is TRULY UNIQUE.....

and I think Mario 64, and Mario Cart 64 (multi player mode), these 2 games alone is already worth the N64 Console....

[shmokes]

Is this a veiled insult about my Pez Dispenser collection?   

[KenToad]

I agree with most of the opinions already mentioned and would have to say that the collecting angle is exactly what bored me about Banjo-Kazooie N64 series and Spyro.  Mario is a bit different in its focus, I believe, although admittedly I've never seemed to get absorbed by the game. 

What gets me is Mario's voice: 

Ya-Haaa!

Wee-Hee!

That makes me want to jump off the highest mountain in the game and maybe that's the reason why I've never really gotten into the game.

Cheers,
KenToad

[nipsmg]

I'm going to have to go with the PRO Mario 64 sentiment here.

I also believe Mario 64 is:

   

• The best 3d platformer ever developed.
• One of the best games ever released on the N64
• Did an AMAZING job of translating the mario feel into 3d from 2d.

I remember hearing they were going to make a mario 3d type game and all I could think was "Oh great, here comes another FPS type of game, this is going to suck".  I was so pleasantly suprised when I got it.

Basically, you would have had to experience it at launch to fully appreciate its greatness, but even now it's one of the few games I go back and play on N64 emulators.  (that, and mariokart 64, and pilotwings 64.)

Also, I thought the voice kinda added to the game rather than took away from it.  Those sounds like YA! *BOOM* when he lands on an enemy or the WOooooooooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooooAAAAAAAAaaaHHHHHHHHhh!! when being shot out of a cannon added to the feel.  And every since Super Mario Brothers 2, mario went for that cutesy cartoony feel, so I think if you look at the Super Mario series from that view, the sound effects were perfect (although I won't refute the fact that they did get irritating eventually).

[duffjr]

i got my n64, super mario 64, and mario kart 64 on feb 23, 1997.  they were great games.  now i can say that mk64 is an OK game that is incredibly fun with three or four players.  it doesn't compare to its predecessor in 2-player mode. 

i didn't like beating up those giant water spiders for a couple coins repeatedly to get the 100-coin star.   there were 6 stars on each level and 120 stars in total.  the record for beating the game with the minimum of amount of stars (16 with glitches) is 18 minutes.  you can see some good runs here:  http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario64.html

i played banjo kazooie for a couple hours and got extremely bored collecting the puzzle pieces and colored birds.  i did enjoy the different moves though.  the worlds were too big for me.  an 8-year-old recommended the game to me.  i paid 59.99 

[ChadTower]

Is this a veiled insult about my Pez Dispenser collection?