France

[Dartful Dodger]

So the rioting in France FINALLY got a paragraph in the American papers.

I don't really care (which is probably the reason the Tribune waited for a slow news day to print an article about it) but the gist of it is, President Jacques Chirac doesn't care about black people.

[ChadTower]

Or Muslims.

[Zero_Hour]

Finally, something to bridge the gap between the Fench and U.S. presidents..

[Goz]

Finally, something to bridge the gap between the Fench and U.S. presidents..

Only if it is convenient for the French 

[Stingray]

If there are no naked cheerleaders having sex in the bathroom involved in this story, I am not interested.

-S

[MameJunkie]

I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere.

Can someone direct me back to the cheesecakes?

[Bones]

Humans are animals. Any excuse to act like savages.

Somebody should blow everybody up.

[Shape D.]

I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere.

Can someone direct me back to the cheesecakes?

[fredster]

Don't they have gun control laws in France?

Where are all these guns comming from Dodger?

[Dartful Dodger]

Don't they have gun control laws in France?

Where are all these guns comming from Dodger?

Where all evil comes from... America.  And thanks to the evil president, France wont be able to sue the evil American corporations for distributing the guns.  We should have listened to that fat guy with the bowling ball when we had the chance.

I hope Johnny Dope is okay in his old dog with dull teeth country.

[DrewKaree]

I changed my sig just for you, DD

[DrewKaree]

 

[missioncontrol]

Humans are animals. Any excuse to act like savages.

Somebody should blow everybody up.

I volunteer to let the cheerleaders blow me up 

[Goz]

I wonder how long it will take the French to surrender and start collaborating....

[Stingray]

This thread sucks. Somebody at the very least needs to post the hot French newsbabe.

-S

[Dartful Dodger]

I changed my sig just for you, DD

I turned off my view sigs months ago because of you.

I work in a very liberal open office, and one of my Bush Bashing coworkers was looking over my shoulder and asked about your old sig.

I've been viewing the internet with show photos turned off for a week now.  Partly because of this site, and partly because Fox's News has FOX as a background, and my favorite gun sight has the outline of a pistol as it's background.

I might be the only guy on the internet that's actually using it for information and isn't viewing porn.
(what I download is a different story...)

[ChadTower]

So, how exactly do you get fighting in France?  Is one side trying to outsurrender the other?

[Dartful Dodger]

I was shocked when I heard that the French were actually rebelling against something, but then I read it's the foreigners or the first generation French that were actually fighting.  The native French people are doing what we'd expect them to do, that's the reason the rioting is still going on.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Funny thing about all the conservatives I hear mocking the French this week is, well, France's approach to the lower-class elements of their society is very much like the American Conservative's ideology, being played out in real-time. This upheaval isn't about religion, rather it's about an entire class of people that feel abandoned and scorned by the very culture they are trying to assimilate into.

So, to me, the most surreal thing about watching the news and listening to right-wing radio is having to watch/listen to conservative idiots essentially mock themselves and their entire dogma, while they remain too stupid/bigoted/jingoist to realize it.

Truly disturbing.

mrC

[ChadTower]

Odd.  These people are rioting because they feel that the French don't like them.

What makes these people different than anyone else?

[Dartful Dodger]

This upheaval isn't about religion, rather it's about an entire class of people that feel abandoned and scorned by the very culture they are trying to assimilate into.

The thing that's funny to me is, the liberals of America believe the lower class people are being abandoned and scorned in America, they can't understand a simple math problem.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Odd.  These people are rioting because they feel that the French don't like them.

What makes these people different than anyone else?

Where's the "solution" in this post? Just more Righty spite, as far as I can see.

[mccoy178]

Righty or Lefty, the French continue to suck.  I love how they talk so much sh#$ when we are in any situation, and they have a freakin nationwide riot!  I love it.  I'm sure there are some okay French citizens out there, but that country can kiss my American A@@! 


Sorry, I've been holding that in for awhile.  Ungrateful bastar#$!

[DrewKaree]

"Color-blind" policies based on "merit" always seem to benefit some groups more than others, despite a rhetoric of equality and achievement.

So the guy doesn't get that anything that's based on merit (or to put it in terms he fails to get - recognition for your work) will benefit some more than others?  How has this guy made it this far in life without figuring out that your work (and the quality/quantity/value of it) results in achievement?  Oh, that's right.  He's a professor at a state university. 

And equality?  When did success start getting measured as how many people you could hire who weren't as qualified as another in order to fill some arbitrary quota?

Your professor lays this out as an "economic" problem, and completely dismisses religion whatsoever as a possible reason.  I also noticed that in dismissing the religion of "the affected", it conveniently escapes addressing how France has bent over backwards and backed up the tanker truck of Vaseline in dealing with Islam.  Explain why "all the immigrants have moved there because of their "booming" economy", and yet it's an economic problem that's being painted as the problem causing all the riots.

It's as if the guy didn't read what he himself wrote.

I turned off my view sigs months ago because of you.

I work in a very liberal open office, and one of my Bush Bashing coworkers was looking over my shoulder and asked about your old sig.

Don't tell me you passed up your opportunity to convert one of the great unwashed  

"The only thing the French should be allowed to host is an invasion"  From Johnny English.

Sucks that "diversity" in your office is defined as it is elsewhere.  You do something to promote "harmony", yet you know (and I'm betting it's because they're strident in "getting the message out" to everyone within earshot) they're a "Bush-basher".  So much for reaching across the aisle and working together.

[ChadTower]

Where's the "solution" in this post? Just more Righty spite, as far as I can see.

There isn't a solution.  This isn't righty, it's French spite.  I am French.  I know how the society thinks and there is no solution to this.  These people will burn out their anger and nothing will change.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I have absolutely no point, nor do I possess even one iota of synapse in this vacant gourd I call a head, so I'm going to say BUSH WON, even though it has absolutely no bearing on the conversations, in the hopes that it raises the hackles in the people I disagree with.

Every time you post BUSH WON, a Democrat wins a seat in Congress '06!

The thing that's funny to me is, the liberals of America believe the lower class people are being abandoned and scorned in America

Forgot Katrina already, have we?

They can't understand a simple math problem.  There are more lower class people than higher class people in America, and BUSH WON!  ...because the lower class didn't vote him out

And you can't understand simple facts & logic. The majority of the lower class population in America already feel so disenfranchised that they simply don't vote. How you can conclude that as somehow supporting Bush, or "not voting him out" just demonstrates the extent of your delusions. If, however, you were somehow able to grasp this reality, and you meant they didn't "vote him out" because they didn't vote, then thanks, once again, for helping illustrate the importance of the lefts continued efforts at bringing them into the fold of the election process. Since, we all know, in our heart of hearts - that if everyone in this country voted...the GOP would never again hold a majority at the federal level.


mrC

[DrewKaree]

Righty or Lefty, the French continue to suck. I love how they talk so much sh#$ when we are in any situation, and they have a freakin nationwide riot! I love it. I'm sure there are some okay French citizens out there, but that country can kiss my American A@@!


Sorry, I've been holding that in for awhile. Ungrateful bastar#$!

It's been pointed out that during the Los Angeles riots of 1992, the French government actually proclaimed that such violent unrest would "never happen" in their country because of sheer pervasiveness of their social programs.


A solution?  Riots won't stop until people realize there will be consequences to their actions.  Amass large numbers of police, army if necessary, and go in and start locking people up.  Move them around the country if there's not enough room in the local jails, and keep them locked up until order is restored. 

What's next, you're gonna tell us the thugs that rioted in OH were right to "mobilize" due to being "economically repressed"?

[ChadTower]

And you can't understand simple facts & logic. The majority of the lower class population in America already feel so disenfranchised that they simply don't vote.

It is not supporting Bush, nor is it evidence that it is.  What it is evidence of, which he did say, is contentment.  People who cannot be bothered to vote must be content with the status quo, yes? 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

There isn't a solution.  This isn't righty, it's French spite.  I am French.  I know how the society thinks and there is no solution to this.

This seems a little egocentric, even for you. To say there is no solution to this, is to ignore everything you've ever lectured me about.

These people will burn out their anger and nothing will change.

Doesn't mean that it should, and it doesn't mean there isn't a solution.


mrC

[DrewKaree]

The majority of the lower class population in America already feel so disenfranchised that they simply don't vote. How you can conclude that as somehow supporting Bush, or "not voting him out" just demonstrates the extent of your delusions.

How can you conclude that they aren't disenfranchised by BOTH parties, since they also DID NOT vote for Kerry?  If you believe the GOP would never again hold a majority at the federal level if everyone voted, then you'd have to view that the lower class population of America would vote for Democrats.  Why, if they were so disenfranchised, did they not turn out in droves to support what you view to be their savior, the party you believe in? 

Assuming they'd agree with you is as dumb as what you charge DD with.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

It is not supporting Bush, nor is it evidence that it is.  What it is evidence of, which he did say, is contentment.  People who cannot be bothered to vote must be content with the status quo, yes? 

WTF?!  No. That's an insane conclusion. A conclusion to make oneself feel better about ignoring their plight. To "blame them" for their condition, by saying, "Gee! That sure do like being poor Wally."

Find me a study that says lower-class, poor don't vote because they are "content" and I'll show you a study that says Bush and his supporters care about them.


mrC

[DrewKaree]

Can we drop a smart bomb on them?  It'd fracture into baquettes with little parachutes on 'em. 

Either that, or sanction the importation of all berets.

[ChadTower]

Find me a study that says lower-class, poor don't vote because they are "content" and I'll show you a study that says Bush and his supporters care about them.

It's just as logical as saying they don't vote because they are disenfranchised.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

If you believe the GOP would never again hold a majority at the federal level if everyone voted, then you'd have to view that the lower class population of America would vote for Democrats.

The members of the lower class that do vote, vote Democrat by a large majority. It's not a guess, it's fact. How can you act like you don't know this?

Why, if they were so disenfranchised, did they not turn out in droves to support what you view to be their savior, the party you believe in?

There are many reasons a majority of the lower-middle class, and lower-class do not vote, but I would guess that the main reason they abstain is because they feel disenfranchised by the WHOLE system. Democrats & Republicans. One of the most salient reasons why is because they have not come to understand the effects of federal and state level policy on their everyday lives.

I don't think it can be argued that the GOP is more aligned with their interests than the Democrats. Both parties are more beholden to big business than I would like them to be, but the Democrats appear less so than the current manifestation of the G.O.P.

Assuming they'd agree with you is as dumb as what you charge DD with.

I didn't say all, I implied a majority.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Can we drop a smart bomb on them?  It'd fracture into baquettes with little parachutes on 'em. 

Either that, or sanction the importation of all berets.

ROLFZ HAHAHA THE FRENCH ARE TEH GAYZ ROFLZ MIMEZ ARE THE SUX0R. FREEDOMAZ FRIEZ FOER EVERY ONE! FWENCH BASHING SURE MAKEZX FOR FUNZOR!




mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Sorry, I've been holding that in for awhile.  Ungrateful bastar#$!

So, what, exactly does any French person owe YOU personally? Is this French debt to America like a Wookie life debt?

mrC

[ChadTower]

Can't say for sure how many times I've heard someone say "well we bailed them out twice now."

Never once heard someone say "well, without the French, we probably lose the American Revolution."

[jbox]

but the Democrats appear less so than the current manifestation of the G.O.P.

So long as people continue to allow themselves to be swayed by advertising, then big media will continue to have a huge influence over the outcome. While this remains the case any real political contender needs do$h, and lots of it. This means they generally need more rich friends than poor friends regardless of what image they are trying to project.

Screw the meek.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

It's just as logical as saying they don't vote because they are disenfranchised.  We are both reading our own interpretation into it.  You say they don't vote because the gov't has made them feel left out; I say they don't vote out of mostly apathy.

One line of logic posits that they are not voting because they are "content" or "happy" with their condition. Another line of logic posits they don't vote because they are disinterested in a process they don't see as helpful to themselves. To me these differing lines of reasons clearly illustrate the difference between Right and Left leaning ideology.

Either way, if they want to change something, they should vote.

Totally agree. But someone has to reach out first, and I see the Dems doing that more than the Republicans.

As for saying there is no solution, there really is not one.  The 'solution' would be to change the way the French society as a whole treats these people, which is clearly not possible, and thus is not a viable solution.  That is what I mean when I say there is no solution.

Well, it certainly isn't a solution for, say, TOMORROW...but, f*ck, in the long-run I imagine it'll alleviate trouble. Look at how the Irish were treated in early America, observe how difficult their assimilation was.


mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

but the Democrats appear less so than the current manifestation of the G.O.P.

So long as people continue to allow themselves to be swayed by advertising, then big media will continue to have a huge influence over the outcome. While this remains the case any real political contender needs do$h, and lots of it. This means they generally need more rich friends than poor friends regardless of what image they are trying to project.

Screw the meek.

Exactly why we need STRICT campaign finance reform in this country.

mrC

[jbox]

Exactly why we need STRICT campaign finance reform in this country.

Um, because that solves the problem of sound-bite politics how exactly? 

[DrewKaree]

Exactly why we need STRICT campaign finance reform in this country.

Um, because that solves the problem of sound-bite politics how exactly?

I don't think he got your earlier point. 

[jbox]

Exactly why we need STRICT campaign finance reform in this country.

Um, because that solves the problem of sound-bite politics how exactly?

I don't think he got your earlier point. 

So, QED right? 

[DrewKaree]

Exactly why we need STRICT campaign finance reform in this country.

Um, because that solves the problem of sound-bite politics how exactly?

I don't think he got your earlier point. 

So, QED right? 

I think that went over the heads of 99% of the people here.....and yes

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Exactly why we need STRICT campaign finance reform in this country.

Um, because that solves the problem of sound-bite politics how exactly? 

I..don't know. Misunderstood your point. I was addressing your statement "swayed by advertising", and the out-of-control 527's came to mind.

mrC

[mccoy178]

My major problem with the French is their attitude towards us for most of the 20th century and all of the 21st century so far.  A great example outside of was is the fact they were the only major country not to go along with the gold standard that saved the world economy.  Who the hell does that?  They give off the perception that there crap don't stink everytime a situation arrises, but it does just like their cheese.  They don't owe me personally for anything Chad, but I won't stand for bashing America at every waking moment.  Blind patriotism, maybe, but that is one of the rights I am afforded being a US citizen. 

I believe the disefranchisement of the poor has everything to do in lack of faith in the system.  Every last politician is a kiss ass.  I know there are too many sides pulling at them for decisions, but for Christs sake, there has to be some rich ---daisies--- out there who don't care about patting others on the back and want to do the right thing.  That is what I'm waiting for.  I don't blame the poor.  A punk ass tax cut is not gonna do it for someone barely making it.  That's what child tax credits are for. 

I feel what is needed is a policy change in the role of government in our society.  Everyone knows that the government is needed and not going anywhere soon, but what about a rejuvenation of the New Deal?  Why not put the poorest of Americans on a voluntary work plan to clean up our cities and make a change in how the lower class is viewed.  We do it for farmers.  Why the hell do half the people who get medicaid and welfare get it in the first place?  Because there is nothing useful for them to do in society.  Go clean a damn street and you can get your vicodin.  I believe it would take a policy change to motivate a majority of the population.  I don't see any other way to do that unless the government goes bankrupt through natural disaster of some other unforseen malady(pandemic, etc...).

We have not had hard times in a loooooooong time, and it is so very obvious.  Yes, there are people who need the government support, but there are sooooo many that made poor decisions through one avenue or another, and somehow they get a fifty year hall pass.  MrC, as a Republican, I think that it is crap if you stick up for that portion of the poor and disadvantaged and you should move to Canada with me because your fight is as helpful as the Republicans neglect of them when considering the overall problem of the American society.  We can ---smurfette--- back and forth, but I honestly believe a moderate solution to the issue is what will have to happen.  This political whining back and forth is useless, although it does waste some time.

America's Poor - You can't live with'em and you can't live without'em(well not legally)

[Bones]

Your country is in a mess. I can help.

Vote #1 Bones

[jbox]

Blind patriotism, maybe, but that is one of the rights I am afforded being a US citizen. 

Damn straight those cheese-sniffers shouldn't try to be better than anyone else. Only American citizens have the right to rag on other countries, the rest of us are simply 'unlawful complaintants'. 

[mccoy178]

lol, I'm just saying I have the right to do it.  Hopefully you do to!

[ChadTower]

The point the French are trying to make, up until very recently when their outward politics changed, was very effective and simple:

We don't like you, stay out, and we got no beef.

The problem now is that they seem to want to be a world power, and to do that, they have to be geopolitically active.  They have yet to learn that you cannot go around the whole world telling everyone how much they suck when you have nothing to back up your words.

[mccoy178]

I agree Chad, but they have been trying to do their own thing during times that was not possible.  When has that ever been possible in the 20th century?  It reminds of those backwoods patriots that are anti government, yet still use all the resources available to sustain life and continue their plite.

[ChadTower]

No one ever really goes self sustaining.  Can't do that in a modern world.

[Stingray]

Your country is in a mess. I can help.

Vote #1 Bones

Other than this post, the rest of this thread still sucks. I'm voting for Bones next time.

-S

[fredster]

Damn straight those cheese-sniffers shouldn't try to be better than anyone else. Only American citizens have the right to rag on other countries, the rest of us are simply 'unlawful complaintants'.

Never stopped you did it?

Do you guys think this unrest in France is driven by (choose any or all of the following):

a) the muslims won't assimulate into society
b) The french won't let them assimulate into society
c) They have no "society" now that they are socialists
d) Poor people are complaining to the "rich"
e) They all need arcade games to calm down

[Grasshopper]

My major problem with the French is their attitude towards us for most of the 20th century and all of the 21st century so far.  A great example outside of was is the fact they were the only major country not to go along with the gold standard that saved the world economy.  Who the hell does that?  They give off the perception that there crap don't stink everytime a situation arrises, but it does just like their cheese.  They don't owe me personally for anything Chad, but I won't stand for bashing America at every waking moment.  Blind patriotism, maybe, but that is one of the rights I am afforded being a US citizen. 

Yeah, those damn surrender monkeys. Always giving the international community the finger. I mean what a nerve - refusing to sign up to the Kyoto treaty, imposing illegal tariffs on imported steel whilst lecturing other countries about the importance of free trade, invading other countries on the basis of bogus intelligence and against the clear wishes of the UN, sucking up to and selling arms to repressive regimes (*cough*Saudi Arabia*cough*) in order to get a cheap supply of oil, riding roughshod over the Geneva convention......

Oh wait a minute. Wrong country. 

[mccoy178]

I would like to reiterate "blind patriotism".  I'll worry about us in the five hundred other threads, this thread is about France's punk butt.  I know we have issues, but they are in the spotlight at the moment.

[fredster]

No, you had the right one Grasshopper.

France invaded south africa last year, they haven't met all of the kyoto protocols, (kyoto didn't even sign kyoto though), all of the long range missles that violated Saddam's treaty were from France. 

Yep, you had the right one the first time. 

[patrickl]

We have a french au-pair in our house. Her parents are vietnamese (so she looks foreign although she was born in France), but she basically fled from France because it's virtually impossible to get accepted as a "foreigner" there.

Because of this disdain for "foreigners", a large chunk of the french population has just about zero chance of a good life. I can imagine they get pretty frustrated. It's the same frustration you see for instance in the US in LA among the black population

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Do you guys think this unrest in France is driven by (choose any or all of the following):

a) the muslims won't assimulate into society
b) The french won't let them assimulate into society
c) They have no "society" now that they are socialists
d) Poor people are complaining to the "rich"
e) They all need arcade games to calm down

Here's the solution I came up with: (click to zoom)




(I spent WAY too much time on this joke!)
mrC

[Zero_Hour]

Do you guys think this unrest in France is driven by (choose any or all of the following):

a) the muslims won't assimulate into society
b) The french won't let them assimulate into society
c) They have no "society" now that they are socialists
d) Poor people are complaining to the "rich"
e) They all need arcade games to calm down

Here's the solution I came up with: (click to zoom)




(I spent WAY too much time on this joke!)
mrC

I hear that pulling off the "Trapped In A Box / Walls Closing in on You" combo is worth some serious points in that game.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

You get an extra life for "pulling invisible rope"...too.

[DrewKaree]

You get an extra life for "pulling invisible rope"...too.

Your game is over instantly if you do the "pulling visible pud"

It's not listed in the instructions, but Bones told me he pissed away $54,000 trying to figure out how to win.  He finally figured that penalty out when someone asked him a question and he stepped away from the game and DIDN'T die almost instantly.

[DrewKaree]

A little reminder of what happened last time the appeasement route was tried

[patrickl]

A little reminder of what happened last time the appeasement route was tried

Was that the last time? I  though it was this one:

[Grasshopper]

Oh, I thought the appeasement process was ongoing.

They make a nice couple don't you think.

[ChadTower]

Matching suits!

[mr.Curmudgeon]

http:// www.glennbeck.com/picoftheday/11-08-05-pod.jpg

Marching orders again, Drew?


*yawn*

mrC

[DrewKaree]

Marching orders again, Drew?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=45763.msg437242#msg437242

It's sad.  It really is.  For someone who views himself as "gathering information from many sources", you must seriously believe you're the ONLY one.  I'm sure the stereotype of you posting madly at The DailyKOS is as accurate as yours is of mine   Hey, btw, did you get to be part of the "eff the conservative radio station host contest" too, or were you not part of that committee?

If I thought you were honest enough to give him a listen, I'd send you some audio of him agreeing with you on some of your opinions, in direct contradiction to what you obviously perceive MY views to be....well, you view them to be HIS views as well, but why start bothering with facts at this point in the dance?

[jbox]

Hey, btw, did you get to be part of the "eff the conservative radio station host contest" too, or were you not part of that committee?

Did the subcommittee memorandum on reprioritising the enumerable action items for success acquisition have a TPS coversheet attached? 

[patrickl]

Drew,

You are really starting to sound depressed and paranoid (more than usual anyway). Whats up man?

I was wondering when you posted a picture of Hitler in a thread about riots, but you seem to be going downhill from there.

[Dartful Dodger]

I just saw this bumper sticker on an old pickup truck.

"France?  Let it burn."

[patrickl]

I just saw this bumper sticker on an old pickup truck.

"France?

[DrewKaree]

Drew,

You are really starting to sound depressed and paranoid (more than usual anyway). Whats up man?

I was wondering when you posted a picture of Hitler in a thread about riots, but you seem to be going downhill from there.

Nah.  Not enough hours in my day at this time of year, plus I added a project I'm trying to get workable before Thanksgiving.

I figured I'd add a visual version to the whole "Godwin" thing.