Snapping sound, jumping picture

[MaximRecoil]

This is in a Punch-Out machine with the original monitors. As soon as you turn it on, the lower monitor makes a snapping sound at regular intervals, like every 2 seconds or so. Each snapping sound results in the picture "jumping". The top monitor is fine. It does the same thing if I feed it the signal that is meant for the top monitor, or if I feed it no signal at all, just power it on. I guess it is a Sanyo Model 20 - Z2AW. They have red degauss buttons, and Ken Layton on the KLOV forum claimed that if it has degauss buttons then it is a Nintendo SHARP XM-2001N; but this is what the labels on the back say:

MODEL 20 - Z2AW
AC 100V 50 / 60 Hz 67W
MANUFACTURED: T
APRIL 1984 [both monitors]
NINTENDO OF AMERICA INC.
4820-150TH AVE. N.E
REDMOND WA 98052 USA
MADE IN JAPAN
EZV [stamped into the metal]
04407272 [top monitor]
04410907 [bottom monitor]

I expect it needs a "cap kit", since the colors are rather washed out and it has horizontal lines running through it. The top monitor has the same lines but they are less noticeable, and the colors are pretty good still. I don't know if needing a "cap kit" would cause the snapping sound or not.

BTW, I am not seeing any blue sparks anywhere and the snapping noise isn't terribly loud, but definitely noticeable.

Also, when I first turned it on (the first time I've turned it on since I got the machine), it wasn't snapping; it was working perfectly. I watched it for a few minutes and the brightness was way too high on both monitors. So I turned down the brightness with the labeled knobs on the back for both monitors. This made the top one look really good but the bottom one still looked pretty bad (washed out colors). I was satisfied with the top monitor but the bottom one's picture was shifted to the right some, so I turned "H-Cent" knob a little and while I was turning it, that's when it started snapping. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or it was just a coincidence. Turning the "H-Cent" back to where it was didn't stop the snapping.

[Ken Layton]

You have two possible troubles:

1. A simple bad solder joint on the foil side of the monitor board. It needs to be cleaned up and resoldered NOW before it arcs enough to start a FIRE!

2. A bad flyback transformer. Nothing you can do but replace it with a new one.

I'm working on a Nintendo red tent table game right now. It has two of the Sharp monitors in it. One has a flyback burnt to a crisp. The guy that owns this game has a parts Sharp monitor that still has an ok flyback that I'll transplant to this one to get it running. I have not seen any Sanyo monitors with a degauss button on them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

If yours is a Sanyo and the flyback is bad, reproduction flybacks are now available. If your monitor is a Sharp and the flyback is bad you're out of luck as nobody makes a flyback for it.

[censei]

why not just buy a new 19 monitor, they aren't expensive, the picture is guranteed to look better also. 

[Ken Layton]

He can't just go out and throw in a new monitor. Nintendo game monitors are special. They have inverted color signals, operate on 100 volts, and have an amplifier onboard. Nobody manufactures monitors for Nintendos wierd standards.

[censei]

no wonder the graphics were so horrible, lmao...

[MaximRecoil]

Now, sometimes when I start it up it doesn't do it for 5 or 10 minutes and other times it starts snapping as soon as I turn it on.

1. A simple bad solder joint on the foil side of the monitor board. It needs to be cleaned up and resoldered NOW before it arcs enough to start a FIRE!

I don't know what a foil side is, or which board is the "monitor board".

2. A bad flyback transformer. Nothing you can do but replace it with a new one.

Where is that located?

I have not seen any Sanyo monitors with a degauss button on them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

A Model 20 - Z2AW is a Sanyo model, right?

If yours is a Sanyo and the flyback is bad, reproduction flybacks are now available. If your monitor is a Sharp and the flyback is bad you're out of luck as nobody makes a flyback for it.

Where do you get the reproductions?

Here is a screen shot from a Sanyo manual I downloaded that mentions the Model 20 - Z2AW. I really don't see how it could be a Sharp:

[MaximRecoil]

It is definitely a trend that it has to be running for 5 or 10 minutes before it starts snapping. I don't know if that would give anyone any further insight into the problem or not, but I figured I'd mention it.

[censei]

I think arcadeshop.com sells them, give them a call and see if they have it in stock.

[Ken Layton]

If he doesn't know what the foil side is or what a flyback looks like then my advise is to have a professional repair this monitor before he hurts himself or damages the monitor.

[MaximRecoil]

If he doesn't know what the foil side is or what a flyback looks like then my advise is to have a professional repair this monitor before he hurts himself or damages the monitor.

You referred to the "foil side of the monitor board". I asked for clarification of this in case it was something other than the obvious, i.e. the "back side" of a PCB, where all the fillets are for through hole components. I worked in a PCB factory for 2 years building, inspecting and repairing PCB's. I am an SMT certified solderer. I soldered 4 position terminal blocks (through hole) onto otherwise complete surface mount boards built in the SMT machines; about 1,000 boards a night. I also, after testing in the HP, repaired opens or shorts or replaced entire surface mount components; even rebuilding entire boards; every single surface mount and through hole component (there are hundreds, and they are tiny); when some would come through that had been splashed with solder in the Wave. We used Metcal MX500 irons, Hewlett Packard HP3070 PCB testers and Panasonic SMT machines. On top of that, never once was the term "foil side" ever uttered by anyone at any time.

I don't know what a flyback transformer looks like because I have never seen one. You didn't know what a flyback transformer looked like before you saw one.

[MaximRecoil]

Here is a picture of what the lower monitor is doing - http://maxim.skyphix.com/sanyo_monitor.jpg

That should be a black background, like in this Mame screen shot (that same screen is also a black background on the upper monitor which looks pretty decent still) - http://maxim.skyphix.com/spo_bgblack.jpg

The camera caught the screen in the middle of a roll as the monitor snapped. The picture is stable until it starts snapping when it warms up, then it rolls once on each snap. Note that some of those lines extend out a little past the edge of the picture on the left.

There is a lot of green there, and horizontal lines. Adjusting the G-Bias on the neck board doesn't help.

I installed a cap kit from Zanen but nothing changed; still a greenish background always, the lines are still there and it still snaps when it warms up.

A bad flyback transformer may be responsible for the snapping, but would it have anything to do with the lines and the green background?

[StephenH]

Ken,

You Said:

He can't just go out and throw in a new monitor. Nintendo game monitors are special. They have inverted color signals, operate on 100 volts, and have an amplifier onboard. Nobody manufactures monitors for Nintendos wierd standards.


I Say,

YES, He can buy a new monitor.   Some hantarex models can run negative logic video.   Additionally, inverter circuits can be made, such as this one:  http://www.arcadecollecting.com/info/Nintendo-color-invert.txt

Additionally, if you get a 120V version (not a 100V) version of a monitor, you may need to supply your own power strip and isolation transformer, and do not use Nintendo's.

[MaximRecoil]

I Say,

YES, He can buy a new monitor.

[MaximRecoil]

Well, it is finally fixed. I managed to get a used Sanyo model 20-Z2AW chassis that had been stepped on and cracked and broken. The F5039 flyback on it was fine though and there should be plenty of other good parts on it as well. So I got that in the mail today and I installed it and played for about an hour with no issues.

Now, I've noticed an issue with the top monitor that I never noticed before, because I haven't had it on that long all at once since I got it because of the arcing issue with the bottom monitor. Occasionally the picture jitters/vibrates up and down slightly and after it had been on for about an hour the colors got all weird on it, like a yellow tint to everything. If I turn it off and let it set for a while, when I turn it back on the colors are back to normal. I haven't touched that monitor since I got the machine and I have a capacitor kit for it that I haven't installed yet so maybe that will fix it. I already went through the tedious ordeal of installing that flyback on the lower monitor so I won't be doing anymore tonight.

[MaximRecoil]

I did the cap kit and it didn't make the reds any lighter. Although, as far as I can tell, the picture doesn't jitter/vibrate anymore and the yellow tint thing hasn't happened since either, so maybe those issues were fixed.

So does anyone know why the reds are so dark?

[Ken Layton]

Have you first adjusted the "Brightness", "Sub-Brite", and "Screen" controls?

If so, then there are also red-green-blue adjustment pots on the video inverter board as well as on the neckboard.

[MaximRecoil]

Have you first adjusted the "Brightness", "Sub-Brite", and "Screen" controls?

If so, then there are also red-green-blue adjustment pots on the video inverter board as well as on the neckboard.

I have yet to locate the sub-bright control, even though I have had the chassis pulled out of them a few times now, I keep forgetting to look for it. BTW, the controls on the inverter board are cranked all the way up, but those don't even do anything if you are using a Nintendo board do they? Isn't that board just a straight pass-through when you use non-invert out? I know that you can completely bypass that board and go straight to the monitor and you get the same thing when using a Nintendo boardset.

The thing is, the brightness and whatnot of the screen and all the colors are perfect, except for red. All the reds are very dark, like a maroon color. So adjusting brightness, or the "screen" pot on the flyback just makes the whole screen too light and doesn't really lighten the reds all that much. Also, I have switched the video plugs around so that what is supposed to be on the top monitor displays on the bottom and vice versa and the dark red issue sticks with the top monitor, so I know the issue is with the monitor, not with the board.

One more thing, if I crank both the red drive and red bias on the neckboard all the way up, the reds get to about the correct shade, but it makes the red colored objects blurry, while everything else stays sharp/focused. I didn't leave it that way because that obviously isn't right.

[Ken Layton]

There are two trimpots on the monitor main board: one is the master horizontal hold and the other is the sub-brite.

It's possible your red gun in the tube may need rejuvenation too.

[MaximRecoil]

There are two trimpots on the monitor main board: one is the master horizontal hold and the other is the sub-brite.

Is it the black pot near the edge of the main board that you can see and access easily from the back of the cabinet? I assume it is, because the other one was buried near the middle of the main board and was smaller and white, and labeled on the board itself as "H-HOLD". Since you said there were two pots with one of them being horizontal hold then the one not labeled H-HOLD must be it (pretty fancy detective work, huh?).

Anyway, it didn't do anything that I could tell. It was set in the middle of its range to begin with and turning it all the way CW and then CCW didn't seem to affect the picture in any visible way. I put it back to center and left it.

I noticed that those pots on the inverter board actually do do something, though they can only reduce color by turning them CCW, since they are already wide open. I tried bypassing the inverter board and plugging direct into the main board with the video cable but that looked identical to having it connected to the inverter board with all three color pots turned all the way up.

It's possible your red gun in the tube may need rejuvenation too.

Yeah, that sucks. I was thinking the same thing. I'm not going to do that; I'd rather leave it as is than gamble with stuff like rejuvenation from some random TV repair guy who may or may not muck things up. At least it is on the top monitor which is less important to the gameplay than the bottom monitor (which looks great BTW); and even still, it isn't too bad...it all looks good on the top monitor too except for those extra dark reds. And, no more arcing! So I can play the game as long as I want now.

Are there any voltages I can test or anything to be sure of the problem? I have a shiny new multimeter but I don't know what to do with it.

[fredster]

You have two things you can try if you want.

1) Put a cap kit in it, now.

2) Find the red transistor and take it out and check it to see if it's good.

There is a crazy way of home tube rejuvnation.  Ken could probably explain it better, but you take out the red transistor and short the neck board from one of the grids to KR I believe.   Randy Fromm explained that.

I never tried it myself.  My geek electronics buddy says it works.

[MaximRecoil]

You have two things you can try if you want.

1) Put a cap kit in it, now.

I already did that (mentioned above). It was a cap kit from Zanen (#301). I really wish there was an option to buy complete cap kits from someone, not just ones with caps that commonly go bad.

2) Find the red transistor and take it out and check it to see if it's good.

How do you check it? And, where is it located? on the neckboard? There is TR251, TR252 and TR253 on the neckboard, is one of those the red transistor?

There is a crazy way of home tube rejuvnation.