Router Bit Recomendations

[toolaa]

Well It's done I've left my job of 13 years to go into business with a partner making Kitchen countertops.  Laminate and Corian for now and planning to take on Stone as soon as we can.  My partner and I have been working hard to optimize the shop and are making great progress. 

I am quickly learning the ropes of the fabrication and see some opportunities for quick improvements.  One area I am having a problem with is the few guys we have seem to be treating our bits like crap.  Laminate is tough on bit's anyway, but I just don't know if it's a tool or operator issue.  I am a big believe in buying a higher quality tool and training the team to use them correctly.  Some of my guys are saying that the tools are the problem.

We use Porter Cable, Hatachi and Bosch routers which I think are great tools.  For now we are buying all Amana and Bosch bits which seem very good to me. 

Can anyone with experience recommend what they would consider the best in terms of cut accuracy and edge life? 

Has anyone used Diamond coated blades?   

What kind of life should I expect from standard carbide tools cutting MDF and Laminate?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,

John

[DrewKaree]

Look into CMT router bits.  Freud and Porter Cable also make pretty decent bits.  Each of those should definitely be able to be sharpened, so perhaps you should have your bits resharpened if you were previously just tossing them when they became "worn".  As for wear, it'll depend on many different factors, but if you're looking for ballpark averages for cabinet/counter stuff, you should experience satisfactory results for at least a month, but I don't know what exactly you're doing.  You've given us very little info of what your work entails to give you anything more than ballpark (and probably quite bad ballpark) figures to consider.

What are you looking for in reference to Diamond blades?  Are you using them for granite installs or more along the lines of concrete work?

PC, Hitachi, and Bosch ALL make EXCELLENT routers, if that's what you're asking about.  There COULD be an issue with HP for your tools, but if the HP are fairly decent for the amount of material you want to hog off, the problem IS NOT the tools, but your operators.

More information and more specifics of what you're doing and quantities would help a bunch.

[toolaa]

You are right I probally did not give enough info.  I really appreciate any insight here.

The specific problem is related to Laminate (Formica) trimming and final edge cutting when making laminated countertops.  With a brand new (or resharpened) bit we get clean cuts of the laminate which leaves a fairly nice edge then we hit the same edge again with a No-File bit.  If the process is working correctly we simply have to take a file and break the edge of the laminate where the top surface meets the edges. 

What I am seeing is that even after 1 week the flush cut bits seem to take much more effort to trim the laminate.  Also instead of large 1mm sized chips I get more of a fine powder allong with a rough edge.  The result of this is that the extra fouce required to trim sometimes causes the operator to tilt the router and nick the laminate (which we have to patch or re-laminate).  It also makes the No-File bit work less effectivly and requires more manual filing which is more prone to errors.

I've thought about simply adding a few more bits and uping the reshapring cycles which I may do in the short term, but I my guys need better practices I would perfer to move them in the right direction too. 

I have been reading a ton of info on www.Woodweb.com which has been a great help.  However a simple router guide would be helpfull.

As far as the dimanond bits go it would be for laminate.  I was making an assumption that they would simply stay sharp much longer than carbide which in the end may offset the cost by having fewer errors and less reshaprining cost. 

[DrewKaree]

The specific problem is related to Laminate (Formica) trimming and final edge cutting when making laminated countertops.  With a brand new (or resharpened) bit we get clean cuts of the laminate which leaves a fairly nice edge then we hit the same edge again with a No-File bit.  If the process is working correctly we simply have to take a file and break the edge of the laminate where the top surface meets the edges. 

What I am seeing is that even after 1 week the flush cut bits seem to take much more effort to trim the laminate.  Also instead of large 1mm sized chips I get more of a fine powder allong with a rough edge.  The result of this is that the extra fouce required to trim sometimes causes the operator to tilt the router and nick the laminate (which we have to patch or re-laminate).  It also makes the No-File bit work less effectivly and requires more manual filing which is more prone to errors.

Not sure if your Bosch is one of their laminate trimmers, but those small little puppies use a smaller bit, are easier to handle, and the bits will probably be a bit cheaper since they're smaller.  That might help in the cost area somewhat. 

Something I might suggest is making your guys clean their bits off at the end of the day.  The glue and gunk will usually transfer off to your bits.  Take a look at one at the end of the day and clean one off once to see just how much.  It's not the same as a sharpening, but it might extend the time between sharpenings for you.  Mebbe look for some pitch remover for sawblades or naptha or something like that. 

I can't remember who had a "router basics" writeup on their site, but I'll see if I can find it for you to print out.  If you've got some time, check out the following magazine sites for some further tips (Google for their home pages, add "magazine" to the end of the search terms)

Fine Homebuilding
Wood
American Woodworker
 
Also check out these sites for bits, tips, and whatever.  You might find some tip or tidbit of info that strikes you as "OMG I never realized my guys are doing this, and should be doing that!"  Check out Rockler & Woodsmith  Adding more bits will help even in the long term, in case you have to or want to add more guys.

I've never tried diamond blades for anything other than a saw, so nothing I can tell you on that. 

[Jess--]

one thing to look out for on some cheaper mdf is the inclusion of glass in th efibres, not sure why they do it but it really kills blades / cutters fast

[toolaa]

Thanks for the help Drew and good point Jess about Glass Fibers.  I'll need to check with the supplier.  In general the bits cut the MDF with no problem but the Laminate is a reall blade killer.