ULTRACADE Discontinued as of 9/01/05

[Crazy Cooter]

Cooter, once again you spew misinformation, get your facts straight.

[ChadTower]

Oh my GOD... there is a FAQ on the WEB that is OUT OF DATE.

Someone call the Web Police!

[RayB]

I agree with you that people should not be selling cabinets saying they play games they aren't legally entitled to play.

[Crazy Cooter]

Oh my GOD... there is a FAQ on the WEB that is OUT OF DATE.

Someone call the Web Police!

They just "updated" it.  Selectively.

CT, you have to admit that a distributor should be accurate on it's representation of the product.  Especially if they were just pointing the finger at other companies for making the same false claims.

[ChadTower]

Sure, a distributor should be accurate, but making a big deal out of an out of date web FAQ on a low traffic web page... all you really did was point out that the FAQ needs updating. 

[Crazy Cooter]

The big deal lies in the "do as I say and not as I do" part.

[davidrfoley]

Yes Cooter, you can extract ROMs from the Microsoft CD that could used with an emulator.  That is how the install worked when we supported the MS CD. 

As for BMI, they are a reseller of our products, and we can not control thier website.  We can only point out when they have incorrect information.  They are not part of our company.

[menace]

"evil corporate overlord"

thats funnier than what I expected from the "guy-who-tried-to-trademark-mame"

I guess it goes with the territory--If you're going to be evil, at least have a good sense of humour about it--i can't think of any bad guys that didn't laugh maniacally at some point or another...

[Stingray]

i can't think of any bad guys that didn't laugh maniacally at some point or another...

-S

[davidrfoley]

NOW THAT'S FUNNY!

Evil Corporate Overlord came from the MAME forums, I thought it was funny.

[ChadTower]

I love that sig.  I don't usually use a sig, but I will use that one.

[Crazy Cooter]

Yes Cooter, you can extract ROMs from the Microsoft CD that could used with an emulator.

[davidrfoley]

We have put BMI on notice to remove it, that is all we can do.  We don't sell those games. 

As for badmouthing you, just giving you some of your own treatment.

[Crazy Cooter]

I've provided links to everything I've ever said.  My "misinformation" is 100% backed up by fact.  Read the fine print  :

[menace]

"Here's the return volley and, oh yes, it was a nicely played shot indeed.
advantage...cooter"
 

In all seriousness I'm impressed that mr. foley registered here and has posted--say what you will about his tactics, he at least was man enough  to face his detractors (however correct or incorrect they may be)  For the record though, I found the whole pulling auctions thing and registering the mame name to be completely unethical and short-sighted.

[ChadTower]

What, does Dave Foley sign papers with his feet?  what kind of signature is that?

[menace]

it's so when he shows up in court for willfully filing a false statement he can claim thats not his signature 

[Hoopz]

As for badmouthing you, just giving you some of your own treatment.

Glad to see that you are about as mature as my little kids. 

[Stingray]

What, does Dave Foley sign papers with his feet?  what kind of signature is that?

It looks a lot like the Evil Mario's signature from Super Mario Sunshine. Coincidence?

-S

[ChadTower]

I still want to play that game.  Haven't got a copy.

[Stingray]

I just got it and am enjoying it every bit as much as I enjoyed Mario 64.

-S

[ChadTower]

Bah, maybe I can trade for a copy locally.  Don't have the cash for a while now.

[davidrfoley]

Cooter, last I checked you were not a member of the MAME team, and we are working very closely with them, so you have no basis for your posts.  Since we have no issue with the MAME team, and they have no issue with us, the dead horse you are beating is starting to smell.

[Crazy Cooter]

You say I provide misinformation, so I provide documentation, then you insult me.  What gives?  That is the actual paperwork filed at the United States Patent & Trademark Office.  It's public record.  It's not "misinformation".

[davidrfoley]

The MAME trademark paperwork has nothing to do with your misinformation, I'm referrnig to all of the discussions where you claim there are lawsuits between us and Namco etc etc.

The MAME issue was very clear, we filed a trademark, and then abondoned it once it was filed by Nicola.  We have no issue with the MAME team or the trademark, and it is now properly in the control of the MAME team. 

[Stingray]

Is it just me or is it getting slimey in here? Probably just me.

-S

[ChadTower]

Stop what you are doing until you get home.  You are not allowed to do that at work.

[davidrfoley]

I would tend to agree.  How about we all agree on these points:

1) UltraCade filed a trademark on MAME, and then worked with Aaron Giles to get it filed under Nicola's name, and then abondoned the trademark filing. 

2) Many people didn't like what UltraCade did, and will never buy UltraCade products because of it

3) UltraCade's actions caused the MAME team to create a new program for manufacturers of arcade cabinets to properly work with MAME and only offer legal ROMs available, and could only ship versions of MAME, and now those companies only advertise legal ROMs in accordance with the MAME team terms

4) There is no benefit to continually rehash this topic, we did what we did in order to protect our commerical interest.  We are in this for love of classics AND profits.  Some people think Profits are bad, and anyone attempting to garnish them is bad. 

5) Let's all move forward and discuss topics at hand.  UltraCade is not going away.  If you don't like our products, don't buy them.  If you wish to discuss classic game topics, I/O boards, etc etc, I'm available to discuss them.

6) If you have issues with UltraCade products, or distirbutors, feel free to email david.foley@ultracade.com and I'll address the issues.

7) Let's move forward.

[Harry Potter]

I would tend to agree.  How about we all agree on these points:
1) UltraCade filed a trademark on MAME, and then worked with Aaron Giles to get it filed under Nicola's name, and then abondoned the trademark filing.

And how much time did you let pass before you informed Aaron or any of the MAME team of this trademark bulldust?
I seem to recall you were busted by someone (MooglyGuy?). Could be wrong though.

Just had to reply to him. I feel so dirty now.

[davidrfoley]

the entire MAME team was mailed 5 times, once per month, before the TM filing took place.  They never responded.   Instead of waiting for the TM to go through, I immeadiately announced it.  Had I wished to own the TM, I would currently own it as no one knew about our filing until I made it public.  If my intention was to own it, it would currently be registered in my name.  That was not my intention, my intention was to prevent the commercial explotation using MAME and unclicensed games.  As soon as the date of filing was established, I made it public that the filing took place.  Within a few days I was in direct contact with the MAME team and coordinating the filing under Nicola's name, and preventing it from being left unprotected. 

[Harry Potter]

Thanks for clearing that up.
Still the matter of WHY, but I don't think there's enough room on the server to contain an answer. 

[CheffoJeffo]

I would tend to agree.  How about we all agree on these points:

1) UltraCade filed a trademark on MAME, and then worked with Aaron Giles to get it filed under Nicola's name, and then abondoned the trademark filing. 

2) Many people didn't like what UltraCade did, and will never buy UltraCade products because of it

3) UltraCade's actions caused the MAME team to create a new program for manufacturers of arcade cabinets to properly work with MAME and only offer legal ROMs available, and could only ship versions of MAME, and now those companies only advertise legal ROMs in accordance with the MAME team terms

4) There is no benefit to continually rehash this topic, we did what we did in order to protect our commerical interest.  We are in this for love of classics AND profits.  Some people think Profits are bad, and anyone attempting to garnish them is bad. 

5) Let's all move forward and discuss topics at hand.  UltraCade is not going away.  If you don't like our products, don't buy them.  If you wish to discuss classic game topics, I/O boards, etc etc, I'm available to discuss them.

6) If you have issues with UltraCade products, or distirbutors, feel free to email david.foley@ultracade.com and I'll address the issues.

7) Let's move forward.

I would agree with these points and would love to see this discussion move forward, but I think there is an item '1a' that isn't being addressed (e.g. the actions beyond the filings, like the reported C&D letters and requests for royalties) and are hanging up a lot of people.

Myself, I have limited knowledge of these actions, but as reported on various boards (including earlier in this thread) they extend beyond what many would consider appropriate. I know that those actions and the lack of comment on them are keeping a lot of people from letting this go (of course some people won't ever let it go, but that is their right).

I'm not trying to carry on the bashing, just looking for some clarification/explanation that would allow us to actually move forward.

And I like profits too ... they allow me buy more cabinets ...

Cheers.

[Hoopz]

the entire MAME team was mailed 5 times, once per month, before the TM filing took place. They never responded. Instead of waiting for the TM to go through, I immeadiately announced it. Had I wished to own the TM, I would currently own it as no one knew about our filing until I made it public. If my intention was to own it, it would currently be registered in my name. That was not my intention, my intention was to prevent the commercial explotation using MAME and unclicensed games. As soon as the date of filing was established, I made it public that the filing took place. Within a few days I was in direct contact with the MAME team and coordinating the filing under Nicola's name, and preventing it from being left unprotected.

Ah yes, the "I-am-stealing-it-to-protect-it-as-someone-else-will-try-and-steal-it" theory.  Haven't heard that recently.  I tried using it in 1978, as an 8 year old, but it didn't work.  And pardon the political reference, that is just about as bad as Bill Clinton's attempt to define what sex is.

Most people learn as a child what is right/wrong.  They eventually learn to stop trying to justify things.  Most people that is....

[Stingray]

4) There is no benefit to continually rehash this topic, we did what we did in order to protect our commerical interest.  We are in this for love of classics AND profits.  Some people think Profits are bad, and anyone attempting to garnish them is bad. 

I believe that it's profit at the expense of others (many of whom are just hobbiests trying to make a few bucks on the side doing something they love) that a lot of us take issue with.

And for whatever it's worth, I don't buy the "I only tried to steal it to keep someone else from doing so.

the entire MAME team was mailed 5 times, once per month, before the TM filing took place.  They never responded

For future reference, when you send out a ton of emails ang get no response, that can be interpereted as "not interested".

-S

[ChadTower]

Well, since they were not interested in the trademark... and abuse of that material was hurting Foley's business... and someone had to have the trademark to prevent the abuse... sounds like Foley tried to tell the MAME team to get the trademark, the MAME team was not interested, so Foley tried to get it himself to protect his business.  Then, once the MAME team was notified, by Foley himself, that Foley was registering the trademark, the MAME team decided it had better get the trademark itself.  At this point Foley rescinded his trademark application in deference to the MAME team's application since the MAME team deserves the trademark.

Now, if this is the correct sequence of events, it appears to me that Foley did what he had to do to protect his own business.  What he had to do was force the MAME team to protect its own property from abuse by third parties.

In all of this, all of the outrage and hatred, I haven't seen any real evidence that Foley tried to profit himself from the MAME trademark directly.  I see a lot of miscommunication, a bit of incompetence on Foley's part as well as Ebay's part, and more misinformed anger than even the Net usually has.

Foley... if I'm right on this, it would probably do you some good here to point out where I'm right and where I'm wrong. 

[CheffoJeffo]

In all of this, all of the outrage and hatred, I haven't seen any real evidence that Foley tried to profit himself from the MAME trademark directly.  I see a lot of miscommunication, a bit of incompetence on Foley's part as well as Ebay's part, and more misinformed anger than even the Net usually has.

Not trying to provoke you (while I don't much like the tactics, I believe that the attempt to register the trademark is between him and MAMEDevs and has been settled to their satisfaction), but he did tell emdkay directly that he wanted royalties, didn't he (after explicitly stating that he didn't want to interfere with the hobbyists) ?

Cheers.

[ChadTower]

He, or someone that worked for him?  Once instance could be incompetence on the part of an employee.  It takes more than one instance to prove a pattern.

[CheffoJeffo]

He, or someone that worked for him?  Once instance could be incompetence on the part of an employee.  It takes more than one instance to prove a pattern.

True enough, although the e-mail was signed as if it came from David Foley and he has acknowledged that the exchange took place ... his only comment has been that the e-mails are shown out of context.

Cheers.

[davidrfoley]

My request for royalties was for our licensed characters and games that we have exclusive rights on.

[Edgedamage]

My request for royalties was for our licensed characters and games that we have exclusive rights on.

If you were serious about business you would working on your next product insted of forum surfing. Go and get real licences for visual pinmame/pinball without screwing anyone over. And make a nice machine which in my mind would sell like hotcakes.