An open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

[SirPeale]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2005-09-02

[Sasquatch!]

Moore can be an obnoxious bloward, but he does have good points at times, and this is one of them...

[M3talhead]

I forgot, what was Michael Moore doing to help these people again??? 

[duffjr]

he's too fat to do any physical help.  he is rallying the liberals to prevent another disaster like this.

[M3talhead]

he's too fat to do any physical help.  he is rallying the liberals to prevent another disaster like this.

So really, what he's doing is sitting at home pointing a finger at someone else, not offering any real assistance,  eating hamburgers and refilling his icetray.


Ok, I got it now.

[ChadTower]

Irrespective of the author and the subject, open letter + media = political stunt every time.

It would be interesting to see if this guy does anything at all when the cameras aren't on him.

[Zakk]

Political perspective aside, is that true? 

[edwardvci]

Even if he did not leave his vacation home really is not the point. He has a phone he can use it there just as well as from the white house or any other place. I'm glad I don't have his job everyone expects him to work miracles but he is just one man. The Dem and rep need to work together and help instead of complaining. If he is like most of us the full scope of the hurricane was not realized until 2 days anyway. (day of the storm and the day after)

As for Michael Moore if Bush had not flew over New Orleans He would have compained about that to.

[Zakk]

Even if he did not leave his vacation home really is not the point. He has a phone he can use it there just as well as from the white house or any other place.

Might as well stay home and telecommute to the president's job, even if thousands are dead more continue to die??

[markrvp]

At Bush's home in Crawford he has access to virtually everything he has at the White House.  You people act like he went to the Bahamas for the month and no one has talked to him since.

Just for the record, CNN and everyone else was talking on Monday about how New Orleans had dodged the hurricane and power outages were the only problem.  It took until the next day to determine that there was significant damage on the gulf coast.  No one understood what the damage was for a couple of days. 

My mother-in-law lost her house in Pass Christian, Mississippi.  She is a democrat and I'm quite proud that she didn't blame the hurricane on George W. Bush.

[grueinthebox]

I don't particularly blame Bush for anything hurricane-related, but I do think the whole "flyover in Air Force One" was a little tasteless...  Any other president (Democrat or Republican) would've been down there in a helicopter, if not on the ground, seeing first-hand what the situation was like.  We didn't see that from Bush until after the federal government's handling of the situation had been seriously called into question.

As far as Moore goes, some of his points are valid, some aren't.  None of them are timely, since the focus right now should be on doing what CAN be done for the folks still in harm's way, rather than worrying about what COULD've been done.  There will be plenty of time for finger-pointing and so on after it's all over.

[markrvp]

At the time, Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi specifically asked Bush not to come yet because they couldn't divert the security resources they had doing search and recovery to provide security for the president. 

Bush did go, but he waited until the resources were in place to not be a hindrance to the effort on the ground.

Why is everybody so bloodthirsty?  Why do we need to hang someone over a natural disaster?

[ChadTower]

Yep, saw reports today of roving, armed gangs mugging anyone who comes near them.  Taking their goods, clothes, and raping women.

It was one thing when people were hungry and thirsty.  When did raping women become a basic survivial need?

[JB]

At the time, Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi specifically asked Bush not to come yet because they couldn't divert the security resources they had doing search and recovery to provide security for the president. 

Bush did go, but he waited until the resources were in place to not be a hindrance to the effort on the ground.

Why is everybody so bloodthirsty?  Why do we need to hang someone over a natural disaster?

Because Moore's an ass. Simple as that.

[Scott84]

Michael Moore is an ass. But its the good type of ass.

Hes the one who stands up and make most of the time GREAT POINTS.

The problem lies in delivery. Instead of cheap shotting bush. He should just leave the tone at the door. I dont care for Mike's sarcasm or humor.

He has the right idea about speaking up and asking these questions.
He just goes the wrong way about doing it.

If he thinks he can do a better job. Then why hasnt he handed in his application and resume to the white house for 2008? 

[Tailgunner]

Ben Stein wrote a counterpoint:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693

[ChadTower]

The guy from Comedy Central?

[JB]

Michael Moore is an ass. But its the good type of ass.

Hes the one who stands up and make most of the time GREAT POINTS.

The problem lies in delivery. Instead of cheap shotting bush. He should just leave the tone at the door. I dont care for Mike's sarcasm or humor.

He has the right idea about speaking up and asking these questions.
He just goes the wrong way about doing it.

Indeed. Rather than making his point with logic and fact, he shouts at people and manufactures evidence.

Yes, he has been caught doing that before. If I recall, it was a fabricated newspaper article for Farenheit 9/11, though I MAY be mistaken.
His response was that the message was so important that it didn't matter if the evidence was real or not.

If he thinks he can do a better job. Then why hasnt he handed in his application and resume to the white house for 2008? 

Because it would be something like work.
Heaven forbid he have to actually work WITH the system instead of just shouting his opinions about things.

[Tailgunner]

The guy from Comedy Central?

Yup.

[markrvp]

Ben Stein was a speech writer for Ronald Reagan long before his role in Ferris Beuler's Day Off became a comedic platform for him.  He was the host of "Win Ben Stein's Money" on Comedy Central, but still is highly active in the political arena.

[TOK]

Ben Stein wrote a counterpoint:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693

Wow, that was pretty good. Very concise, covering pretty much every aspect of what went down.

[JCL]

Ben Stein was a speech writer for Ronald Reagan long before his role in Ferris Beuler's Day Off became a comedic platform for him.

[toolaa]

Ben Stein wrote a counterpoint:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693

Most of Ben Stein's counterpoints are accurate and in general I believe his comments are needed to balance out some of the extreme leftism occurring during a crisis. 

However I believe that a few of Ben's comments are a bit of a stretch,

6.) George Bush did not cause gangsters to shoot at rescue helicopters taking people from rooftops, did not make gang bangers rape young girls in the Superdome, did not make looters steal hundreds of weapons, in short make New Orleans into a living hell.

>>While it's obvious that GW did not encourage or cause this absurd behavior, being a strong leader goes a long way in limiting the extent of this kind if lawlessness.  When it comes to his ability to instill public confidence, I think GW could do more.

7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.

>>I think that Honest Abe might disagree here.

9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.

>>In my personal experience there has been impact.  I have two guardsmen who have worked for me.  One has served three tours in Afghanistan.  During severe snowstorms the local guard unit is often called upon to support civil crisis's.  However their unit is stretched to the limit already.  It's seems obvious that there would be "SOME" reduction in these units ability to respond to emergencies. To claim otherwise seems to be ignoring the math.  There are more than 8500 National Guard Troops from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama currently in Iraq which otherwise would have been able to mobilize and respond to a local relief effort faster than we currently have done. 

[markrvp]

Ben Stein wrote a counterpoint:

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693

However I believe that a few of Ben's comments are a bit of a stretch,

7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.

>>I think that Honest Abe might disagree here.

Abraham Lincoln wanted to send all the freed slaves by boat to islands in the caribbean.  He felt that keeping them in the United States would be bad for the country. 

I think the Bush Bashing is in poor taste during this catastrophe. 

[toolaa]

Abraham Lincoln wanted to send all the freed slaves by boat to islands in the Caribbean.

[Tailgunner]

Most of Ben Stein's counterpoints are accurate and in general I believe his comments are needed to balance out some of the extreme leftism occurring during a crisis.

[DrewKaree]

Moore can be an obnoxious bloward

Yeah, but that's just on days that end in "Y"

[DrewKaree]

9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.

>>In my personal experience there has been impact.  I have two guardsmen who have worked for me.  One has served three tours in Afghanistan.  During severe snowstorms the local guard unit is often called upon to support civil crisis's.  However their unit is stretched to the limit already.  It's seems obvious that there would be "SOME" reduction in these units ability to respond to emergencies. To claim otherwise seems to be ignoring the math.  There are more than 8500 National Guard Troops from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama currently in Iraq which otherwise would have been able to mobilize and respond to a local relief effort faster than we currently have done. 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arng.htm
Louisiana - 11,500
Mississippi - 10,000
Alabama - ?

I'm guessing Alabama is about the same, but it doesn't say.  Each state has about a third of their Guard members in Iraq, as well as each state generally having members sent to other states in emergencies such as this. 

I've also seen it said around these forums that the Guardsmen "didn't sign up to die in Iraq".  While it ignores the fact that NO ONE "signed up to die", the Guard is a part of the army and enlisting carries the same risks as "full-timers".

True, there would be those men to send to the area, but even of the members left, they're not sending ALL of them to help, so having those in Iraq back here wouldn't have the effect those who disagree with them being in Iraq would want you to believe there would be.

I don't particularly blame Bush for anything hurricane-related,

Well, that doesn't really jive with this, now does it:

but I do think the whole "flyover in Air Force One" was a little tasteless...  Any other president (Democrat or Republican) would've been down there in a helicopter, if not on the ground, seeing first-hand what the situation was like.  We didn't see that from Bush until after the federal government's handling of the situation had been seriously called into question.

It's just like I predicted in another thread.  Either he wasn't doing enough, or he'd have been getting in the way. 

Why was the flyover "tasteless"?  Because he didn't land Air Force One on the submerged runways?  Because he wanted to see what happened firsthand on his way back to Washington?  Take a look at a timeline floating around here.  While it seems accurate-ish, it completely glosses over that first flyover as if he were just taking another routine flight back to D.C.  And dropping the President down on the ground BEFORE rescue efforts were well underway?  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find stories of ANY U.S. President doing that, for precisely the reasons Mark laid out.  Until rescue efforts are WELL underway, the security alone is a hinderance to the process, and would be extremely counter-productive.  Cripes, Clinton himself was on Larry King APPLAUDING Bush for doing the right thing and staying out of past instances EXACTLY like this, and Clinton even made the same argument that Mark made! 

If you look, you can even find stories condemning Bush in the past for showing up at disasters and "hindering the relief process".

I'd call it a crystal ball I have, if it weren't so clouded with "silt"

[DrewKaree]

From Mr Stein:

5.) George Bush had nothing to do with the hurricane contingency plans for New Orleans. Those are drawn up by New Orleans and Louisiana. In any event, the plans were perfectly good: mandatory evacuation. It is in no way at all George Bush's fault that about 20 percent of New Orleans neglected to follow the plan. It is not his fault that many persons in New Orleans were too confused to realize how dangerous the hurricane would be. They were certainly warned. It's not George Bush's fault that there were sick people and old people and people without cars in New Orleans. His job description does not include making sure every adult in America has a car, is in good health, has good sense, and is mobile.

10.) If the energy the news media puts into blaming Bush for an Act of God worsened by stupendous incompetence by the New Orleans city authorities and the malevolence of the criminals of the city were directed to helping the morale of the nation, we would all be a lot better off.

[Setabs]

7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.

>>I think that Honest Abe might disagree here.

You do know that as a lawyer practicing in Illinois prior to being elected, Abe represented a slave owner who was trying to recover slaves that escaped while being transported through a free state. Abe lost the case, but the judge noted it wasn't from a lack of effort on Mr. Lincoln's part. This doesn't prove he was racist in any way, but he was most certainly not the abolitionist he's been made out to be.

I don't neccasarily think the slavery was all about racism.  One island in the bahamas revolted aginst they slave owners.  Instead of free all the slaves they killed and inslaved the slaves that did not help.  Slavery to them was a part of life you were either the slave of the master.

I think it was jefferson that freed his slaves once he died but they instructed them to be deported.  He didn't belive that whites and indians and blacks could live together.

[Sasquatch!]

Moore can be an obnoxious blowhard

Yeah, but that's just on days that end in "Y"

Hahaha, true.  But in my mind Moore belongs in the same category as his alter-ego Rush Limbaugh: the category of "people who are willing to blur the truth in order to propagate their political beliefs".  I take anything said by any of these pundits with a grain (or a block) of salt...

[ChadTower]

No small irony that they look alike, but Rush is in a suit and tie while Moore is all hippy looking. 

Both fat blowhard bastard hypocrites that produce nothing of real value.

[toolaa]

No small irony that they look alike, but Rush is in a suit and tie while Moore is all hippy looking.

[M3talhead]

No small irony that they look alike, but Rush is in a suit and tie while Moore is all hippy looking. 

Both fat blowhard bastard hypocrites that produce nothing of real value.

Maybe it's time they both Join the UFC and duke it out!  At least then we might be able to call their work legitimate entertainment....

As much as loath Moore, I'd take his odds over Rush. He may be a fat sleazy bastard, but Rush wouldn't make it past the first round without a few Valium

[toolaa]

Rush wouldn't make it past the first round without a few Valium

Rush doesn't mess around with lowly Valium... He's addicted to the good stuff,

[billf]

I'd take Rush also in mano y mano fight with Moore.  Not that it would happen, but it might be worth seeing. 

[DarkKobold]

Moore can be an obnoxious blowhard

Yeah, but that's just on days that end in "Y"

Hahaha, true.  But in my mind Moore belongs in the same category as his alter-ego Rush Limbaugh: the category of "people who are willing to blur the truth in order to propagate their political beliefs".  I take anything said by any of these pundits with a grain (or a block) of salt...

It's funny to me, cuz my Granddad listens to Rush and takes his word as gospel. This obviously pisses me off. But at the same time, I tend to take things Moore says as gospel.... So really, I'm just as bad as he is. I can see myself in 50 years, acting just like my grandfather, just on the opposite side of the fence.

[ray_slup]

I like both Moore & Rush
there both entertaining
and once in awhile they both make vallit points
bu truth is I don't go out of my way to watch them

[btoddkelley]

It's funny to me, cuz my Granddad listens to Rush and takes his word as gospel. This obviously pisses me off. But at the same time, I tend to take things Moore says as gospel.... So really, I'm just as bad as he is. I can see myself in 50 years, acting just like my grandfather, just on the opposite side of the fence.

"If you are in your 20's and conservative you have no heart. If you are in your 30's and liberal you have no brain"

Winston Churchill

 

[TOK]

It's funny to me, cuz my Granddad listens to Rush and takes his word as gospel. This obviously pisses me off. But at the same time, I tend to take things Moore says as gospel.... So really, I'm just as bad as he is. I can see myself in 50 years, acting just like my grandfather, just on the opposite side of the fence.

"If you are in your 20's and conservative you have no heart. If you are in your 30's and liberal you have no brain"

Winston Churchill

 

I love that quote, but its said to be mis-attributed.
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=112