gas pumps

[Bones]

Paige's old sccoter is lookin' pretty sexy now...

No it's not.

[GameOver]

Paige's old sccoter is lookin' pretty sexy now...

No it's not.

Aren't you sposed to be workin' on your cab?  Go cut some wood or paint 'sumpin!   

[paigeoliver]

Paige's old sccoter is lookin' pretty sexy now...

No it's not.

I agree, right now my "old scooter" is sitting parked, with the handlebars missing. I have the parts to repair it, but my left hand is still damaged, and it hurts too much to seriously grip tools hard, which is what I will need to do to fix it.

[Bones]

You want to be very careful paige. There is a bone in your wrist known as a scaphoid bone. It is common to break this bone and not be aware of it, people just think their wrist is a little sore. I can confirm this, I broke mine and it feels very different to other breaks.

It is easy for this bone (if not promptly identified as damaged and treated), to be starved of blood flow and die.

This bone is in the centre of our wrists with an orgy of bones surrounding it. The scaphoid bone is substantially responsible for normal wrist movement due to it's direct interaction with the surrounding bones. When this bone dies your wrist is fused together and then you might as well not have a wrist at all. It will be completely useless. You won't be able to hold a drink, put change in your pockets or a million other things you probably would never consider.

Scaphoids break as a result of an "open hand fall".  A scaphoid break is usually treated by 8-10 weeks in plaster compared with 6 weeks to most other breaks because of its unique nature and vulnerability. I am not trying to spook you but I do know a little about these things.

[paigeoliver]

The pain is actually in the hand, and not the wrist. If we are going to point at a bone, then the pain comes from the area where the bone leading up to the pinky is.

[Bones]

That's a metacarpal bone. I broke 5 of those. You would know it if they were broken or even fractured.

[paigeoliver]

Right now my bigger problem is my left ankle. It wasn't really hurt in the accident (only a tiny bit of pain, which passed after a few days), but 2 weeks ago I played a few rounds of "Pump it Up" and woke up the next morning with a pretty bad limp that hasn't gotten any better.

[psik0tik]

I own a painting company and I spent over 300 filling up 4 trucks today...this is going to suck.

[Jabba]

Prioces jumped 20% overnight here in Canada. Its amazing how quickly these &^%&^%& gas companies can jack the price!!! $1.26 a litre at a local gas station I passed this morning on the way into work!

[Zakk]

Check SirP's post above.  Too bad for you, Canuk 

What really reeks is that we don't even get ANY petrolium from the states. In fact, Ontario gets most of our gas from Alberta, and the rest from Europe.  We are suffering a 'shortage' because the states have requested more from Alberta, and of course they'll send it there before they give it to us.  We should stick some cows and softwood into the deal, if they don't buy all three, they don't get any!   

I think Canada is like #2 in the world for oil reserves.  I wonder how quickly GW would see 'terrorists and Canadian WMD's!!!" here if we cut off supply.  Dang, we'd have $.03 cents a liter if we weren't sending it all stateside.

I, for one, am hiding my maple leaf WMD's as we speak... 

[Harry Potter]

Fuel in Australia is on $1.20 per litre at the moment. Considering 6 months ago it was around 90 cents that's a bad rise. And they're tipping it may go up to $1.60 soon.

May be a good time to buy a bike.

[Stingray]

Gas has gone up by almost 25 cents a gallon since yesterday morning here.

-S

[SirPoonga]

I think Canada is like #2 in the world for oil reserves.  I wonder how quickly GW would see 'terrorists and Canadian WMD's!!!" here if we cut off supply.  Dang, we'd have $.03 cents a liter if we weren't sending it all stateside.

Really but it looks like Canada is our main import if I read this correctly
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Of course, if you total up the entire middle east it blows away what we get from canada.

[Zakk]

We want Alaska back!!!  Take your shiny beads! 

[SirPoonga]

We want Alaska back!!!  Take your shiny beads! 

Sorry, changed my post, had to go look for stats to back it up

[SirPoonga]

Check SirP's post above.  Too bad for you, Canuk 

I want to clarify my point before this gets out of hand.

First, I direct you to
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

You will see that the main reason other countries pay more is because the gas is taxed more.
So when you say "well, your lucky you pay that for gas" what you are really saying is "out tax structure is different and gas is taxed higher than you".  But you fail to realize then that we probably have some stuff stuff taxed higher than you. 

It's like when I lived in Minnesota.  I had a Wisconsin friend visit and we were at some outdoor mall.  I was complaining about the price of some shirts.  Every MNers reading this right knows exactly what I am going to say.  He turns to me and says "Well, your lucky you have no sales tax on clothes."  That may be so.  However, WI has a different sale tax structure but pull about the same amount of money.  For WI there is a 5.5% sales tax on everything.  For MN there is a 6.5% sales tax, clothes are expempt.

So comments like "why are you complaining about your prices rising" are stupid.  You probably have less tax on something else compared to us.  Unfortunately the governments needs to make their money some how.

[Jabba]

Ahh, come to Canada. Everything, I mean EVERYTHING is taxed at 15% (some variance across Provinces). 7% for the Feds and 8% for Provincial. Services included. That doesn't include Income Taxes, Property Taxes. If I had my way, I'd move to NH. 0 sales tax, but I think the property taxes are herfy though....

[SirPoonga]

0 sales tax, but I think the property taxes are herfy though....

Exactly my point.  we may have less tax on some stuff compared to you but we also have higher on other stuff.  Like I said, when all is said and done the government still needs to make its money.

[Stingray]

the government still needs to make its money.

Hold the phone, I thought they were they guys who print the money. Who prints the bacon?

-S

[SirPoonga]

the government still needs to make its money.

Hold the phone, I thought they were they guys who print the money.

So?

Who prints the bacon?

Slaughter houses

[Stingray]

the government still needs to make its money.

Hold the phone, I thought they were they guys who print the money.

So?

So, uhm... I dunno.

Who prints the bacon?

Slaughter houses

Is that a branch of the treasury dept?

-S

[missioncontrol]

Asheville, NC update  ****

gas in now anywhere from $3.39 and up (that is if they have any)

most places are out of the cheap stuff so add another 20 cents to that.....

the places that do have it have lines again today....

people are filling up every gas container they own......

[missioncontrol]

oh and between work and school I drive about 90 miles a day.....

and that's if I don't have to go anywhee else.....

I have to fill up every four days........

[Jabba]

Well, at least I only drive about 10 miles a day back and forth to work. I usually have to fill up every two weeks. But still, 80$ to fill up is STEEP man! I could buy 6 Joysticks for that amount 

[Dartful Dodger]

I've got over 3/4 of a tank, it might get me through the weekend, but prices go up so quickly, and go down so slowly, that I'm not sure if I should wait till Tuesday or just keep filling my tank until prices hit 3.50, then just hope they go down before I go empty.

[DrewKaree]

Paige's old sccoter is lookin' pretty sexy now...

* DrewKaree searches for some more rocks

It's pretty simple, really.  Combine a decent travel holiday and the loss of a few refineries and the laws of supply and demand are displayed in vivid detail.  The problem isn't that we have a loss of oil, so Bush is doing a dumb thing by tapping the reserve. 

What the hell good does getting more OIL do us, when the problem that no one seems to be willing to face is that none of us put oil into the gas tank of our car.  The problem is that we have less refineries to turn the oil into the stuff that we DO put into the gas tank of our car. 

As Zakk said, their prices are going up because we asked "pretty please", so they have less to sell in their country.  Less here, our prices go up.  Having to buy it from Canada, the prices go up.  Shipping it from Canada, Canada's prices go up. 

Take the whole fiasco in GA.  Some newspaper printed some inane story about how we're gonna be running out of gas, and everyone panicked and drove to the gas station.  That area is going to quickly be out of gas precisely because everyone wants to fill up before they "run out".  In turn, it's going to cost more to replace that gas because of the refinery issue.  With people panicking the way they were, they'd have to raise prices even more, because perhaps now, instead of ordering one truckload of gas, now they've got to order two truckloads, and it's gonna take longer to get there.  Longer to get there means it costs more for shipping it...and so on and so on.

For the love of Pete, I bought gas yesterday morning at about 5 A.M. and it was $2.69/gallon.  2 hours later, it was $2.99/gallon.  Today, it was $3.29/gallon.  There WILL NOT be a shortage of gas.  These prices will keep people from buying as much gas, or waiting until they really need to.  Just look at some of the comments in this very thread.  Because of the refinery issues, the increase in prices will allow the stations to cover their prices in having gas replaced.  Because of the refinery issues, it may take longer to have the gas shipped to the stations, and THAT will be the reason you won't be able to get gas at one station, but go right up the street, try a different station, or perhaps different "brand" station (hit a Citgo instead of a BP, or whatever) and you'll get gas. 

The problem is the refineries and the stupid, downright idiotic rules and regulations in place at the local levels in your areas.  I'm in WI with SirP, and check this out.  He lives about 2 hours away from me.  In my area, or actually an area that extends to about an hour-ish away from him, the stations are FORCED to pay for some stupid reformulated gas that is proven to be LESS efficient, and cost MORE money.  And as someone pointed out, if all these political blowhards on ANY side of the aisle wanted to do something to reduce prices, they'd temporarily suspend the numerous taxes on each gallon of gasoline.  To say "Bush has to do something about the price of gas in this time of crisis" is simply pointing out to everyone that you're an idiot and don't understand or care to educate yourself on all the things that go into the cost you are paying for gasoline right now, and gives credence to someone using a disaster to further their political aspirations.

4 trucks @ $300?  This isn't meant to be a "I can top that", I'm just pointing out that I'm getting hit pretty good too.  I have 1 truck, 3 large machines, and several 2-stroke machines I had to fill up today.  $284.34  It simply makes piss-poor business sense to not pass along these costs to the customer, as it's the price of doing business.  There's a reason people who do service-type work like painting and landscaping usually limit themselves to a certain area to begin with - you'd lose your shirt on travel and fuel.  Why would such an exorbitant increase in gas not be passed on....or do people still bid out jobs based on the gas prices at the time they founded their companies?

Not ripping on you, just explaining good business practices.

[Zakk]

It simply makes piss-poor business sense to not pass along these costs to the customer, as it's the price of doing business.

[DrewKaree]

It simply makes piss-poor business sense to not pass along these costs to the customer, as it's the price of doing business. 

Umm, you're fired as my landscaper. :zing!:

The way I see it, you can afford to buy my gas for a few months   Heck, sell a few more houses and pay my freight, and I'll commute!

[Zakk]

How true!  Check that latest PM!  I think I can finally afford to become a Republican! 

(you're still fired, gouger).

[Setabs]

I just hate that as of right now the $3 gas that we pay cost the gas station we got it from less than $2.50 to purchase it.  IE they paid a certain amount for a truck to fill there tanks.  That i believe is the only cost of gas they incur.  So the gas should be a fixed price at that station until there next shipment arrives, then it can go up according to the price of that shipment.

Let me try and explain alittle more.

A station received it gas on Friday and paid say 2.15 per gallon.  they set there price at 2.30.  Then over the weekend they raise the price because of how much a barrel is trading for.  Then hurricane hits, supply gets restrained and they raise the price more.  Two weeks later when prices start to come down they receive there next truck of gas at 3.00 per gallon.   So the whole time gas prices where going up they where just increasing there profit.  I think its pretty f'd up that oil companies are getting record profits.

[/incoherent rant]

[DrewKaree]

How true!  Check that latest PM!  I think I can finally afford to become a Republican! 

(you're still fired, gouger).

You've got a lot of learning to do before you can apply to become a conservative.  (Republicans have to learn a handshake and buy several uniforms.  I can't be bothered with all that hoopla.)

You can't fire a fellow conservative.  We've gotta look after our own, and you probably didn't realize it before, but you're in the pocket of Big Lawn, of which I am a member.  Get back in line before we have to slap a few random zoning laws on you

[DrewKaree]

That i believe is the only cost of gas they incur.

Gas stations are one of the more tightly contested products in the market.  There's about a 1% profit margin.  The reason it's worthwhile is quite simple.  We need it, and that percentage of something we need is pretty good.  It's the same situation with grocery stores.  What are we gonna do, not eat, not use gas to get to work?

Also, the cost to them from their wholesalers goes up just as fast. 

So the gas should be a fixed price at that station until there next shipment arrives, then it can go up according to the price of that shipment.

Let's say they sell gas at $2.  Let's also say that now because of the hurricane, it costs them $2.40.  Obviously it's gonna cost them more for the same reason it's costing us more - less supply.  The purpose of having a business is to make money, yes?  Your scenario would mean that they sell the rest of that $2 gas at $2.  Then they have to turn around and buy the next container of gas for $2.40.  You're saying that they should lose the profit they WERE making on the $2 gas, and also lose money on the gas @ $2.40, because any profit they make on it was lost on the last batch.  Let's say it keeps going up.  At what point is it ok for them to try to make a profit? 

It's the same with ANY business.  The goal is NOT to sell your product or service at cost, it's to make a profit.  If your COSTS go up while your company is in business, you'd be a fool to continue to keep your PRICES the same. 

So the whole time gas prices where going up they where just increasing there profit.  I think its pretty f'd up that oil companies are getting record profits.

The whole time gas prices were going up, you see them as increasing their profits, but when they have to pay the higher prices when they're "out" of that cheaper tank of gas, are you going to feel similarly for THEM when they lose money in your scenario by having to pay a higher price for the gas when they run out?

To add to this with an example, when the Atkins diet was in the news daily and was being tried by everyone under the sun.  I always buy eggs at Sam's club.  Not because they're tons cheaper, but they're pretty reasonable, and we eat a lot of 'em.  Not because we're Atkins freaks, but we just like eggs.  They were $5/box.  The Atkins thing goes nuts.  The box of eggs went up to $13.  It was simple.  I just wasn't going to buy it at those prices, or I was going to work around it - $20 purchase at the grocery store = free dozen eggs, for example.  The price of that box of eggs now?  $6.  Higher than I used to pay, but a price I'm willing to pay and consume at the same rate.  How many folks aren't going to drive somewhere for a vacation because gas is too expensive?  How many people are going to think twice about using their cars or taking alternative methods to travel somewhere?  It's simple.  When less gas is being purchased, the price WILL come down.  It makes piss-poor business sense for gas companies to chase profits at the expense of sales.

I think its pretty f'd up that oil companies are getting record profits.

It's simply not true.  The profit margins are around the 6-7% range.  They may have spikes here and there, but you're being mislead.  Oh, and here's yet another little problem.  IF everyone thinks the oil companies are getting record profits, it's simply foolish to sit there and not take advantage of it.  ANY of these oil companies can be used to your advantage.  Buy stock in them.  It's pretty simple.  Make the higher price work for you, if you think you're getting hosed six ways to Sunday.  Oh, but that involves taking a risk that the company won't give back as big a return.  Well, it's not as simplistic as this, but in a way it is.....if you think they're screwing you through higher prices, and screwing you through keeping all those profits, then you only have a few solutions. 

• Join 'em.  Buy stock, pay more for gas, but offset it with profits when you sell.
• Look into it and learn how you're NOT getting hosed, and realize it's the market at work
• Lump it.  This involves the least work.  You pay the higher price, and realize the market will correct itself soon enough, and do your part to bring prices back down.  Conserve, ride a bike, ride a scooter, walk, carpool, bus it, whatever.  Solve it yourself for your personal situation
• Complain to someone about doing something, realizing it'll result in either nothing being done, or drastic "solutions" that make the problem worse, resulting first in lower prices, then in lower supply, finally in empty pumps and frustration that you can't do what you want BECAUSE of those artificially lower prices.

Really, no one ever likes to think about investing in oil companies and offsetting the "greed" of big oil by making their "evil practices" work against them, but if you think they're hosing you, that's the best way to get back at them.  If it'll make you feel better, donate your profits to the Sierra Club or Greenpeace or something

[jbox]

It's simple.  When less gas is being purchased, the price WILL come down.

For complicated markets like oil, it is possible for the peak price to actually stay there, but then be stable for a lot longer while the rest of the market catches up. Energy demand is always going up, meaning price increases in the long term regardless of evil conspiracies. Price fixing is *bad* idea, since it's cosmetic rather than structural. 

The rest was well put, although a better analogy would have been for a highly desired commodity like bac0n. 

[Gamecab]

I was 16 when I started driving in 1988.
Gas Prices were $1.05 for 93 Octane
A Pack of Malboro was $1.25

As of now $3+ a gallon for gas is plain crazy.
And a Pack of Malboro is $8.00 in NYC.

My Point: (regardless of any political view)
This Just really sucks!!

(Added Note:  I quit smoking about 8 weeks ago)

[DrewKaree]

My Point: (regardless of any political view)
This Just really sucks!!

I don't think anyone can find fault with that logic.  It's a flawless argument

For complicated markets like oil, it is possible for the peak price to actually stay there, but then be stable for a lot longer while the rest of the market catches up. Energy demand is always going up, meaning price increases in the long term regardless of evil conspiracies.

Yeah, I get that, but d'ya see how hard it is to just explain the simple stuff?  Try throwing out your "looney-tunes" idea above and see where that gets ya

Price fixing is *bad* idea, since it's cosmetic rather than structural.

They're bandying it about over here, though.  It's as if no one thinks the oil companies will simply drag their feet in producing the "correctly priced" gas, since they'll be losing money hand over fist if that happens.  Again, there's more to it than just that simplistic bit, but the bottom line is that will be the end result until the market corrects.

I WAS about to put money into some natural gas options until this happened, although I DO think the price is still gonna go higher here. 

The rest was well put, although a better analogy would have been for a highly desired commodity like bac0n.

Who....wha....did someone say b@con?  I heard tofu is selling for $10 a gallon on the forum here....woops....pound

[missioncontrol]

(Added Note:

[DrewKaree]

now if I could only give up gas I'd be a rich man......

You might become rich, but I dare say a main isn't a man unless he's got gas.  Give it up?  I think you're just pulling our finger

[missioncontrol]

[MaximRecoil]

Let's say they sell gas at $2.  Let's also say that now because of the hurricane, it costs them $2.40.  Obviously it's gonna cost them more for the same reason it's costing us more - less supply.  The purpose of having a business is to make money, yes?  Your scenario would mean that they sell the rest of that $2 gas at $2.  Then they have to turn around and buy the next container of gas for $2.40.  You're saying that they should lose the profit they WERE making on the $2 gas, and also lose money on the gas @ $2.40, because any profit they make on it was lost on the last batch.  Let's say it keeps going up.  At what point is it ok for them to try to make a profit? 

It's the same with ANY business.  The goal is NOT to sell your product or service at cost, it's to make a profit.  If your COSTS go up while your company is in business, you'd be a fool to continue to keep your PRICES the same.

I didn't see anyone say anything about selling "at cost". What irritates people is the fact that gas that was purchased by the gas stations for say $2 a gallon, is being sold now for like $3.50 a gallon; when they were content to sell that same $2 a gallon gas for $2.50 a gallon last week.

The price of gas at any given station should remain the same for as long as the shipment lasts.

Any station that increases prices mid-supply is price gouging, period. Of course, they have always done that.

Let's say a station gets its tanks filled every two weeks. So they pay $2 per gallon and charge $2.50 a gallon when they resell it. Fine. They make $.50 a gallon profit. They could sell every last drop of that gas at $2.50 for the two weeks and they would make $.50 profit on every last gallon of that gas.

So the next shipment comes in and it costs them $3 a gallon. Now is the time to raise prices to $3.50 a gallon.

Raising prices 3 times in one day? What in the blue hell is that all about? Did they use up and receive 3 shipments in one day? all costing more than the last one? So when gas jumps $.50 a gallon overnight, and then another $.50 cents a gallon or so over the next couple days; you know damn well that most places are suddenly making $1.50 profit off each gallon of gas that they were pleased to be making $.50 cents a gallon off just a few days earlier.

So they need to make money to cover their next shipment? LOL @ that. I'd like to know where they got the money to cover their very first shipment when they opened shop in the first place. The cycle starts with the station fronting the money for the shipment with the hopes that they can resell the entire shipment at a higher price than they paid for it. When that shipment runs out, then the cycle starts again. If you can't afford the next investment then you are out of business. It takes money to make money.

"So you like those generic canvas sneakers huh? Well, I paid $5 for them wholesale but I'll charge you $50 so I can afford to pay $40 dollars wholesale for some brand name sneakers which I will sell for $150 so I can afford to buy some top end Nikes for $100 wholesale..."

What kind of wacky business model is that? Everyone else prices their products based on what it cost them in the first place, not based on what they expect new products will cost in the future. Do car dealer triple the cost of an existing model on their lot because they hear that next year's model will cost nearly 3 times as much?

[AtomSmasher]

I drive a gas guzzling GTO, have to fill its 19gal tank 2-3 times a week and yet I could care less if gas prices are increasing.  I'm sure at some point I'll start to care, probably when I start spending $500+ a month on gas (right now its $300-350/month), but until then Que Sera, Sera