good business opportunity?

[sodapopinski]

I'm a finishing carpenter, my boss has offered me 30% as a partner. Increasing by 5% a year to 45%. When he is physically unable to work(which will be soon. he is 50 and has bad back problems) i take the company.  He grosses around 200,000 per year. I don't know a ton about small businesses, but it sound good to me. What do you think?

[Bones]

Sounds like a great opportunity. Grab it with both hands and shake.

Hang on, are there any negatives? Could you loose financially if the business went sour?

[JackTucky]

What do you have to pay?  Does he have a son/daughter that could show up and want the company someday?

[sodapopinski]

Does he have a son/daughter that could show up and want the company someday?

I'm the closest thing he has to a son.

What do you have to pay?

nothing except for regular expenses. gas, new tools. the home builder pays for material in finishing.

Could you loose financially if the business went sour?

not enless I/we get in trouble with the government.

[DrewKaree]

If you enjoy doing the work you do now, you won't enjoy the hassles of owning the business.  If you like the work, but can't see doing it forever, moving into the owner's spot may be just what the doctor ordered.

If you get almost all your work from referrals, you'll prolly do fairly well, although past performance is not indicative of yada yada yada.  If your boss has to sell/advertise to get a lot of business (dunno if you're privy to that kind of info), you'll prolly struggle.  IF, and only IF, you are a "people person", you'll prolly do just as well as you are now, perhaps increasing the business.

Me, I'd jump at it, you....dunno....hopefully I've given you some things to think about.

[paigeoliver]

The construction industry is closely tied to the new home construction industry, which is currently headed for disaster. There is something like a record 7 month supply of homes on the market now, with millions and millions and millions more qu'ed up.

Supply of new homes is at absolute record levels, and is getting higher and higher. When the shoe falls it is going to probably take every small construction company in the country with it.

My friend and his uncle own a small company, they do shelves, fireplaces, mirrors, and shower doors in new houses. They seem to have accepted the fact that they will be out of business when the real estate market tanks.

[shmokes]

If you can make $200k per year take it even if you hate it.  Some people do telemarketing.  Do it for 10 years, living like you make $90k per year and retire.  $90k/year is a helluva living.

[mccoy178]

Schmokes, I'm not gonna vote you brilliant, thinking 90 k over ten years is enough to retire.  Even if you live in a double wide.  He also said the business gross's 200k a year.  If you took 30% off the top for democrat taxes, 20-25% for expenses (gas, phones, insurance, tools, vehicle maintenance, etc.......) and that is being conservative, the company may net 100k or under.  Now, if he is making thirty percent of that, 30k, that's not too bad, but not enough to retire on. 
I owned the largest pool installation company in Ohio, and grossed around 160k over the summers.  I can tell you that my wife is the smartest person in the world.  She is a pharmacist and gets to clock in and out, and come home.  I had to think about my business from the second I woke up until the second I went to bed.  I figure I made about $1/hr. in the end.  My point is this, owning a business isn't for everyone.  You have to have the right wiring in your brain to handle it.  I suggest that you pursue this if you can truly understand what is involved and the addition efforts and pressures that come with ownership.  Getting the opportunity is exciting, but it is a big gamble.  I loved the benefit of being the big man on campus, and doing what I wanted when I wanted, but I found that the highs were too high and the lows were too low.  I work hourly again, but now I can come home and work on my arcade and be a family man instead of crazy busy and stressed out.

[Bones]

Schmokes, I'm not gonna vote you brilliant, thinking 90 k over ten years is enough to retire

You may have misunderstood shmokes. 
200K-living like a king on 90K per year=110K per year
10 years X 110K per year= 1100K
That's enough to retire.

But I hear everything else you say and it has merits. I also agree with you that shmokes is not brilliant.

[sodapopinski]

I think i want to try it. If anything, he teach me how a small bussiness opertates.
secondly, there was a time his crew was 15 men. at this point he was netting 250,000 a year. the 200,000 gross I gave you was based on three men.
As far as constuction crashing, I think it will stay steady in alberta as long as the oil indusrty exists. The company i can inherit has been established for about 20 years and has been recognized. People will always need houses finished.
Also, i don't really have to sell myself. The home builders and the super-intendants know the company and they call us for work when the next house comes.

[JackTucky]

Well what's the downside then?  No upfront cost, *maybe* a little extra work owning a part of the business at first, but that's maybe a paperwork or being shocked when you see what business owners pay for healthcare.

When it's all yours, don't borrow on the business, and if it fails, you just go back to doing what you are doing now, which is finish carpentry.

Art

"Former Small Business Owner for 20 years, now happily employed by a big company"

[ChadTower]

You may have misunderstood shmokes.

[hyiu]

from what I hear, seems like a good deal....

of course there'll be more work, of course there'll be some part of the work that you won't like, of course there'll be more risk....

but so what ?? I would say... go for it !!!....

unless you prefer a hourly pay job, and once you clock out, you're off type of job... but you won't get anywhere by those jobs...

yes, owning a business is hard...  but it has its rewards.... these chances doesn't come by everyday.... I would say... give yourself a few yrs and see how far you can go with it !!!

GOOD LUCK !!!

[ChadTower]

unless you prefer a hourly pay job, and once you clock out, you're off type of job... but you won't get anywhere by those jobs...

Where exactly do you need to go?  Back to work to make rich people richer?  If the mortgage, car, food, and entertainment bills are paid, that's where you need to go.

[Stingray]

I know myself well enough to be completely aware of the fact that I lack the self-disciplin to own my own business. I require a job where I am there for 8 hours a day and then I can spend the rest of the day playing. Okay, being honest I spend most of the eight hours that I'm at work playing too, but at least I'm getting paid for it. If I were my own boss, I'd fire my lazy --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.

-S

[ChadTower]

Stop wasting taxpayer money.

[Stingray]

Stop wasting taxpayer money.

I'd rather remain part of the problem.

-S

[shmokes]

Schmokes, I'm not gonna vote you brilliant, thinking 90 k over ten years is enough to retire.  Even if you live in a double wide.  He also said the business gross's 200k a year.  If you took 30% off the top for democrat taxes, 20-25% for expenses (gas, phones, insurance, tools, vehicle maintenance, etc.......) and that is being conservative, the company may net 100k or under.  Now, if he is making thirty percent of that, 30k, that's not too bad, but not enough to retire on. 
I owned the largest pool installation company in Ohio, and grossed around 160k over the summers.  I can tell you that my wife is the smartest person in the world.  She is a pharmacist and gets to clock in and out, and come home.  I had to think about my business from the second I woke up until the second I went to bed.  I figure I made about $1/hr. in the end.  My point is this, owning a business isn't for everyone.  You have to have the right wiring in your brain to handle it.  I suggest that you pursue this if you can truly understand what is involved and the addition efforts and pressures that come with ownership.  Getting the opportunity is exciting, but it is a big gamble.  I loved the benefit of being the big man on campus, and doing what I wanted when I wanted, but I found that the highs were too high and the lows were too low.  I work hourly again, but now I can come home and work on my arcade and be a family man instead of crazy busy and stressed out.

You don't have to vote me brilliant, but at least spell my name right and actually read my very short and succinct post before going off. 

A-#1, My post is like four sentences and is written perfectly clearly.  I said that if he can make $200,000 a year he should live like he's making only $90,000 a year.  As BrokenBones (who secretly does think I am the most brilliant person/celestial being alive) points out, that leaves $110,000 (gross).  Now, don't get me wrong.....remember....try actually reading my post.  I never said he would be able to put away $110,000 a year.  I simply said to live on $90k a year and retire after 10 years.  What Bones failed to mention is that putting away $110,000 a year over 10 years does not equal $1,100,000 (which would be enough in itself), it would equal $1,100,000 + interest.

B-#2 he said that his boss grosses $200,000 a year, not that his boss's company generates $200,000 a year in revenue.  Take out personal income taxes from that number, but don't take out materials and the wages of the three employees and insurance.  That's crazy.  You were not grossing $160k per summer.  Your company was.  It an't semantics.  There's a meaningful difference.  When the director of the health department I work for is asked what his salary is he's not going to tell people, "well, I gross about $200 million a year," but then when probed say, "Well, after paying about 80 full-time employees and giving out millions of dollars in WIC vouchers I only net about $120 thousand."

Sodapopinski can correct me if I'm wrong, but he will have to be correcting himself too, because I am reading what he wrote correctly, while you are making all kinds of unwarranted assumptions.

[shmokes]

Disclaimer:

It is a figure of speach when I compared living on a $90k/year salary to living like a king.  I am aware that real Kings live on far more than $90k/year, even in very poor countries.  What I mean to say is that Soda can live very comfortably on that amount and retire after 10 years rather than being able to afford a much bigger house now, but having to continue to do something he doesn't enjoy to maintain his lifestyle.

Disclaimer 2:

When I say in disclaimer 1 that he doesn't enjoy it I am referring to my original post where I said that he should jump on this even if he hates the work because of the large amount of money involved.  They hypothetical about him hating his work is what prompted the suggestion that he put away large sums of money to facilitate an early retirement.


C'mon.  Y'all are killin' me here.

[mccoy178]

Schmokes (spelled it again just to rib you),

I don't think your post was that clear.  Also, either you're young or don't have a grasp of financial responsibility, but if sodapopinski isn't over forty, he is not going to be able to retire on that amount of money.  My concern with your post is that I believe his boss' company does gross 200k, not him personally.  If it is not the company, he has too much info combined into one paragraph.  You are correct in my math in the fact I did not figure in the third guys' wages. 

My opinion is this, if Soda can handle the responsibility of running a business, and NET over 90k, then I say roll with it.  I don't feel it would be worth anything less than that. 

P.S., Schmokes, no harm intended.  All I'm saying is that I have owned a business and a lot of the time the numbers stated are not usually the amount sitting in the bank at the end of the year.  I didn't want Soda to get talked into something that is not 100% solid.

[TOK]

The construction industry is closely tied to the new home construction industry, which is currently headed for disaster. There is something like a record 7 month supply of homes on the market now, with millions and millions and millions more qu'ed up.

Supply of new homes is at absolute record levels, and is getting higher and higher. When the shoe falls it is going to probably take every small construction company in the country with it.

My friend and his uncle own a small company, they do shelves, fireplaces, mirrors, and shower doors in new houses. They seem to have accepted the fact that they will be out of business when the real estate market tanks.

Assuming your predictions are right, there will still be a ton of warranty work (my buddy is a carpenter doing warranty work on 5 year old houses) and also always have the option of working for homeowners. Lots of people are refinancing while rates are low and putting the money back into the house for additions and remodelling. Carpentry isn't tied as tightly to new home sales as you imply.

[shmokes]

He grosses around 200,000 per year.

Okay, whatever.  I assume that the word "he" means "he" unless instructed otherwise.  You assume it means "his company".  You may be right, but it's a leap of faith where there is no reason to make one.  The only rational thing is to assume that he meant what he said, unless he tells you otherwise.  He said, "He."  It's a corporation (at least anybody whose company is generating at least $200,000 a year in revenue and is doing work with a high potential for lawsuits would be a moron to not incorporate.  Hell, he had 15 employees at one time doing dangerous construction work.  One fall off a ladder or roof and everything he owns could be gone.  What possible reason do you have to read his statement in any other way than what it clearly states?

The fact that you owned your own business says very little, really.  Guess who else owned his own business?  Michael Dell.  So what?  You think if I were in a room with Bill Gates and said, "Hey, a guy down the road wants to retire from owning a videogame arcade and has offered for me to take over the business," that Gates would reply, "You should do it.  I've owned my own business and I can tell you that you stand to make A LOT of money."  Owning one's own business is a wildly different experience from one person to the next.

And I'd say you not thinking my post was clear speaks to your reading comprehension ability more than my writing ability.  The first line in my post was: If you can make $200k per year take it even if you hate it.   I then said to live like you are making $90k per year.  That's almost my entire post, in fact.

But, whatever.  To be honest the only thing that really riled me about your post was the stab at democrats.

[ChadTower]

Stop cramming your post down his throat.  This isn't porn.

[shmokes]

You cram porn down peoples' throats?

[ChadTower]

No, I cram prawn down peoples throats.  Lightly sauteed and buttered.

[quarterback]

I'm a finishing carpenter, my boss has offered me 30% as a partner. Increasing by 5% a year to 45%. When he is physically unable to work(which will be soon. he is 50 and has bad back problems) i take the company.

[shmokes]

Plus, private eyes are great to work with.  They're just as seedy and callous as they are portraid in movies.  Actually I only know one, but I always have a great time chatting with him.

I remember telling him once that I had thought of a way to easily cheat on the LSAT, which would involve some specialized equipment that he has access to.  You should have seen his eyes light up like it was something I was actually considering.

[DrewKaree]

I think it all depends on what your definition of the word "is" is.

[shmokes]

Or, in this case, what your definition of "he" is.

[Silverwind]

If you enjoy the work, go for it!

[mccoy178]

I figured it out!  Now I understand your train of thought:

But, whatever.  To be honest the only thing that really riled me about your post was the stab at democrats.

Now I see.  I don't fault you in this statement:

Do it for 10 years, living like you make $90k per year and retire.

Any disillusioned Democrat would easily think that is enough to retire on riding on the backs of others.  Two things you should have considered before posting in this thread:  1)Your a Democrat, and we're talking about owning a business.  Those two things just don't go together.  2)  This isn't about handouts or taxing.  He is trying to do something productive by himself, so this may not be your cup of tea.  Now, I understand, like any good Democrat(If such a thing), you must do whatever you can to help someone in a time of need, but based on the fateful first post of yours, this isn't the time nor place for you! 

Now, I am ready for you to attempt to recover in this thread by taking shots at my intelligence and my typing, but please, in the future, you should realize there may be some things you don't know about and are best left alone.  I have now set my self up for some bashing by the Dems, but oh well.  I felt you needed a little sit down.

Put that in your cigar and schmoke it!

[mccoy178]

Stop cramming your post down his throat.

Yeah, you shoulda left well enough alone. 

[Stingray]

My father is a democrat and has been running a small busines for over 30 years with a huge amount of success. I really don't see what his political affiliation has to do with his ability to run his business.
-S

[mccoy178]

To be honest, I'm just firing off at Schmokes.  I wouldn't take it too personally.

[Zakk]

My friend and his uncle own a small company, they do shelves, fireplaces, mirrors, and shower doors in new houses. They seem to have accepted the fact that they will be out of business when the real estate market tanks.

I don't think they think that way at all.  A lot of these new houses are poorly constructed, and are decorated to 2000's tastes.  They should be marketing their skills towards repairs, renos and maybe home warranty work.  All these crummy new houses are going to need a lot of upkeep!

[shmokes]

The political stab riled me, but I didn't mention it.  It was the relevant substance of your posts that I addressed (and that you seem to be distancing yourself from).

Now here are some things you should have considered before posting to this thread:  1)Everything I have said was perfectly rational, and everything you have argued against has been based on butchering misreading my post.  Perhaps being a Republican and arguing without twisting an opponent's words just don't go hand-in-hand.  I simply never said any of the things that would lend an ounce of credence to your attempt to discredit me.  2)  This isn't about billion dollar credit-card spending sprees when you're already seven trillion dollars in debt.  He's actually trying to be fiscally responsible, so this may not be your cup of tea.

What is it exactly that I'm supposed to be recovering from in this thread.  I said:

($200k sallary - $90k living expense) x10 = Retire

You counter with:

Your dumb.  ($90k salary - $90k living expense) x10 does not = Retire.  You must be a democrat.

What exactly is it that I don't know about that should be left alone?  What, are you a hitman or something?

[ChadTower]

What exactly is it that I don't know about that should be left alone?

[shmokes]

Well...that's true.  It's an eternal weakness.

[DrewKaree]

Perhaps being a Republican and arguing without twisting an opponent's words just don't go hand-in-hand. 

What you're saying is you still wear Cabbage Patch Kids underwear and you secretly love the picture of the bellybutton-at-her-cankles woman and have it set to be your desktop image.  Nice comeback. 

[Buddabing]

I'm a finishing carpenter, my boss has offered me 30% as a partner. Increasing by 5% a year to 45%. When he is physically unable to work(which will be soon. he is 50 and has bad back problems) i take the company.