Katrina Thread / New Orleans

[ChadTower]

Yes, people at sea level pay more attention.  Yes, people keep tuned for more accurate information as the storm approaches.

New Orleans is below sea level, which means they should have been glued to the TV or radio as the storm approached.

Chicago is never going to get a hurricane that does this because it is too far inland.  By the time the storm gets that far it is depleted enough to be a nuisance but not much more.

[missioncontrol]

I don't think your going to get any rain from it in Chicago:

[mr.Curmudgeon]

High-res image of the damage from one of the levee breeches:



[ENLARGE]


mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

"Mayor Nagin estimated that about 80% of the city's 485,000 people evacuated before the storm. That has to be a very rough estimate and HOPEFULLY VERY LOW. If about 20% of the residents are still in the city, that's approximately 97,000 people. Only 9,000 or so are at the Superdome, and only several hundred have been rescued from their homes. That leaves about 87,000+ trapped in homes rapidly flooding with toxic water, with no food or water or way to get out."

If that's true, by some estimates on this thread, that's 87,000+ people WITHOUT BIKES nor DESERVING OF COMPASSION. 87,000+ possible individuals who just didn't pay attention.

Trapped in a city, without food, water & electricity, surrounded by water that is rapidly rising. Good thing we don't have to concern ourselves with those lowly imbeciles that can't pay attention to the news. /sarcasm


mrC

[Stingray]

Wow. Obviously that's a lot more people than the news stories that I read this morning led me to believe. Despite the impression that I may have given to some in this thread. I genuinely do hope every one of them make it to safety, even if they did ignore the warnings.

-S

[Shape D.]

Trapped in a city, without food, water & electricity, surrounded by water that is rapidly rising. Good thing we don't have to concern ourselves with those lowly imbeciles that can't pay attention to the news.

A little harsh don't ya think.

[ChadTower]

Wow. Obviously that's a lot more people than the news stories that I read this morning led me to believe. Despite the impression that I may have given to some in this thread. I genuinely do hope every one of them make it to safety, even if they did ignore the warnings.

We know that.  Only an idiot would assume people here are actually hoping people die needlessly in the flooding.

[Dartful Dodger]

I don't think your going to get any rain from it in Chicago:

My point is, yesterday they were saying we were going to get rain from the hurricane.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Again, as with all disasters...the immediate information is suspect.

CNN reports, there are now 24,000 to 30,000 people in the superdome, as it's now a central hub, of sorts. Furthermore, there seems to be some confusion over the counting of 9000+ individuals, as opposed to 9000+ "families", since some estimats had 26,000 people in the dome at time of closure. So some media outlets are using the 9000+ number to represent individuals, whereas, that may *not* be the case.

Either way, we're possibly looking at some horrible numbers...since that leaves an estimated 70,000+ people unaccounted for.

A little harsh don't ya think.

Yeah, I do think it's harsh, actually. I was sarcastically referring to some other posters in this thread. I don't feel that way, myself. Hence my use of the "/sarcasm" tag.

mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Latest I've gather from listening to local NOLA radio/television (streamed online):

• It'll be at least 2 weeks before they can get the water out of the city of New Orleans.
• Minimum 2 months before electricity can be restored.
• Minimum 2 months that schools will not open to students.
• Mayor states that NO economy will take decades to recover
• Waters continue to rise all over the city.
• Waters are waist high outside the Superdome
• Looting of food and supples continues in front of police officers. There is no where to take the offenders.
• People that evacuated are being told not to come back. There is nothing to come back to.
• One county in SE LA is totally submerged. It has become a part of the mississippi river. The peak of a church is said to be totally submerged. It exists no more.
• Thousands are stranded on roofs and other high ground waiting for rescue.
• Untold numbers of people are presumed dead.
• Water is waist-deep, surrounding the SuperDome.
• Man commited suicide inside SuperDome by jumping from second level
• Conditions inside the SuperDemo deteriorate. Waste is piling up.

mrC

[Stingray]

This thread is starting to make me appreciate the fact that I live on top of a hill. Sounds pretty bleak down there.

-S

[fredster]

I'm sure it's hell.

Gulf Shores is hell also.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

It's pretty clear that this is a HUGE disaster, beyond what was reported initially.  It's historic in scope, and has certainly changed the face of Louisiana forever. It's also pretty clear that it will become a more broad national tragedy, and will effect the entire U.S. economy.

I'm watching officials in the area give a live news conference, the woman at the microphone was openly weeping while trying to relay the devastation.

Watch streaming station here: http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=beloint_khou&props=livenoad

My heart goes out to those effected, and I will contribute to relief in any way I can.


mrC

[shmokes]

I just read on MSNBC that officials have ordered all refugee centers, including the Superdome, to evacuate because water is pouring into the city through broken levees.

[ChadTower]

Erm, evacuate to where, exactly?  Unless they plan on helicoptering 10000+ people out, that isn't going to happen.

[rchadd]

i hope Bob Roberts is ok - isn't he from down that way?

[DarkKobold]

This just pissed me off, courtesy of the racist yahoo news.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

NO WAY! You didn't alter that image??  Disgusting.

I'm fed up with the "looting" crap too. All I've seen, in 99% of the footage on the news, is people carrying loads of FOOD.

It's not looting, it's self-preservation...these people have no food, no water, no electricity, and no way out of town, are they suppose to starve while the food rots in grocery stores?

I'm watching Hannity (that souless pig) right now, continually try to demonize these people, while the cop on the phone is calling him on his racist, sensationalistic shite. Sick bastard.


mrC

[fredster]

There is always looting after a big disaster.

Food, we can understand. Nobody seems to be shooting anybody for the food.  Loads of Tennis shoes, TV's and jewery, we can't handle.

I don't get how the hell they can evacuate if the city is flooded. Somebody has to airlift 1000's of people out, and that has to be a huge logistics problem.  How can they do that?

People with bass boats and small watercraft are comming in to help,  but I bet the gas situation sucks. 

That is going to be a terrible mess for a long time to come.

Wonder if Mexico or France will help?

I'm sure they have little clue as to how many people are dead.  They are stepping over the bodies right now trying to get to the live ones.

I'm also really sure they have no clue as to how to fix the leevies.  They are just now figuring out where they are broke. Let alone how they should get fixed. 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

UPDATE:

"ALL RESIDENTS ON THE EAST BANK OF ORLEANS AND JEFFERSON REMAINING IN THE METRO AREA ARE BEING TOLD TO EVACUATE AS EFFORTS TO SANDBAG THE LEVEE BREAK HAVE ENDED. THE PUMPS IN THAT AREA ARE EXPECTED TO FAIL SOON AND 9 FEET OF WATER IS EXPECTED IN THE ENTIRE EAST BANK. WITHIN THE NEXT 12-15 HOURS"

This really sucks...it looks as if the entire French Quarter, and other historic gems, are in danger of being flooded, completely. The sandbags NEVER MADE IT to the levee breaks. There was a communication breakdown, or general miscommunication between the rescue teams, and the effort to stop the leakage has failed.

This means that Lake Ponchatrain, 3 feet above sea level, will drain into a city below sea level with walls all around it.

Wonder if Mexico or France will help?

Is this some sort of snark? Venezula already offered assistance. Saudi Arabia has offered to increase oil production, to offset the loss. I'm sure France and Mexico will help...to assume otherwise is just unfair bitterness.



mrC

[ChadTower]

The French quarter... historic gems... did you read that on a website?  That is half my heritage, I have tons of creole relatives down there.  Yes, they are all confirmed safe... but historic gems?  Creole culture is half wrapped around lack of evidence of its existence...

[fredster]

No, it's not a "snark".

[DannyH]

Another reason I am thankful to live in the relative stable weather system of Sydney Australia. The occassional heavy storm or Hail storm but thats about it!.

Though this drought isnt the most fun you can have in a year!

[mr.Curmudgeon]

The French quarter... historic gems... did you read that on a website?  That is half my heritage, I have tons of creole relatives down there.  Yes, they are all confirmed safe... but historic gems?  Creole culture is half wrapped around lack of evidence of its existence...

So what's your point? That you are somehow more qualified to care about the disaster now? Is this the opposite of how you don't usually care about stuff unless it directly effects you?

Did my wording upset you again? Wtf?

I'm just passing info along, for those interested...you can continue to be a pompous @ss if you want, you're also free to ignore me...probably better that way.

At least I'm not the one quoted as saying the poor should have just "biked" their families out.


mrC

[DrewKaree]

We used the best technology at the time to create a city that was destined to be flooded and destroyed like it is (or perhaps worse).  Is there a point to rebuilding the city only to have it happen again, perhaps next year? 

If they DO rebuild, I hope this time they hook up a flapper valve and all the other workings so we can just hit the lever and flush all the crap out, instead of making a non-draining toilet of a city again.  This last happened in the 60's, and no one could figure out it's a piss-poor geographic nightmare? 

Tomorrow we'll have stories about how the rains are flooding the Mississipppi and how all that rain is running down it right into....you guessed it....the giant toilet bowl that currently is clogged. 

[Tailgunner]

It'd be kinda cool if they rebuilt N'awlins like Venice.

[DrewKaree]

It'd be kinda cool if they rebuilt N'awlins like Venice.

I was thinking more along the lines of those houses up on posts....all tropical-like and stuff

[shmokes]

No, it's not a "snark".  It's a direct quote. We'll see who helps us.

Oil production isn't the issue anyway, it's the capacity to refine from useless OIL into gasoline and transport it.  The refineries are down. The infrastucture is ruined. All the oil in the world won't help today Mr.C.

This was terrible at the beaches.  They said a 20' wave came in for several hundred yards in MO and MI. They had hotels gutted through the first 2 floors.  Buildings totally demolished.

New Orleans will be down for some time.  Gulf shores didn't recover from the last one.

There are going to be huge body counts.

What in the name of god are you saying?  Imagine that you are someone other than yourself reading this post trying to figure out what it means.

[ChadTower]

I think fredster's post was clear.

[ChadTower]

The profiteering has begun.  By 8pm last night, every gas station in my town except one had raised its prices as of 8am by 15 cents or more. 

The news always tells us that the gas stations only raise their prices when their suppliers raise it on them, keeping the same very small per gallon margin they always have.  Logically, unless they all received shipments yesterday that were 15 cents per gallon more than the last shipments, this story is untrue.

[Tailgunner]

The profiteering has begun.

[ChadTower]

Many of the stations where I live don't sell much more than gas and a small shelf of automotive necessities like oil and windshield fluid.

[Stingray]

Gas prices spiked here too. As a matter of fact they were up by about 10 cents yesterday afternoon.

-S

[ChadTower]

The funny part, another part that doesn't work the way they say it does...

...prices will spike, say, 20 cents when something happens.  Okay, fine, there is a bit of panic.

Why does it never go down the full 20 when the situation is clear?  It will go up 20, but only down 8.  The next time, up 20, down 8.  It never goes back to the price it was.

[Shape D.]

The majority of them make around 1 cent a gallon profit from actually selling gas.

national standard is 14 cents mark up per gallon.

[ChadTower]

Another funny bit:

Here in MA, they are required to post the amount of tax per gallon right on the pump.  It's like forty cents here, between federal and state.

If the gov't really wanted to help the poor deal with the fact that they can't buy gas to get to work, they could just shave some of that tax off.  But they won't.

[Stingray]

That's because the gov't doesn't care about poor people. Please note that this is not a stab at the current regime administration. They don't seem to care about the poor regardless of who's in the white house.

-S

[whammoed]

I see we will be dipping into the federal oil reserves.  When is the last time that happened?  Ever?

[DYNAGOD]

whats done is done.. the big question here is..
Should they rebuild a city thats essentially doomed to sink again?
should billions of our tax dollars be used to bailout and then rebuild whats essentially from a civil engineering standpoint a "defective " city?

[ChadTower]

I seem to remember it happening once before in recent memory but can't remember when.