Four more years... Four more years... but not what you think

[Crazy Cooter]

Sorry to start another Iraq thread but pretty significant news:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9022420/
"The Army is planning for the possibility of keeping the current number of soldiers in Iraq

[Sephroth57]

chad tower for president IMO

[M3talhead]

I can tell you exactly whats going to happen over there...

The same thing that happened to anyone else that screwed with us. Build a big ass base (or 2 or 3)

Many current U.S. bases were acquired in subsequent wars

[ultramagnus]

http://www.ericblumrich.com/14.html

i think that says it all

[ChadTower]

chad tower for president IMO

No one intelligent enough to be president would be willing to take the media abuse required of the job.  That's why we end up with guys like Bush in office while guys like McCain stay Senators.

BTW, were I president, I'd withdraw faster than if we forgot to put a condom on when we went in.

[DrewKaree]

http://www.ericblumrich.com/14.html

i think that says it all

It probably would if we were stomping out people who speak out, or if logical and sane people were able to make the tremendous leap your "author" speaks of, but some of those leaps require amounts of faith that aren't known to anyone but the government that's ramming stuff down your throat.  Nice to meet you, Stretch Armstrong

It's nice to see hyperbole still alive and kicking, and being taken to a whole new level.  They may need to update the definition soon if tripe like that keeps up.  Just a hunch, but you ain't 'mercan, are ya?  I'd have a hard time believing that someone who AGREES with you, like MrC, would agree with your picture show, but they DO move pretty fast....mebbe he might get hippo-tized too.

[ChadTower]

This whole argument fatigues me.  Anyone who questions it isn't American.  Anyone who supports it blindly attacks Bush the man rather than Bush the policymaker.  It's an endless diuretic spray of flatulence that never gets anyone anywhere other than pissed off.

Dude, seriously, whoever started this thread... if you don't like what is happening, suggest a better, practical way, to get from where we are now to where you think we should be.

[Crazy Cooter]

I would have never gotten into this mess.  I would have listened to my ADVISORS when they said NOT to go into Iraq... I don't know how to get out of it.  I said it was a bad idea to jump into this bottomless pit in the first place.  THAT was my solution: Look before you leap.

FWIW: Militias wrest control across Iraq

[ChadTower]

Once again, you're running around yelling "it was bad, it was bad" without a way to improve it.  That is not productive. 

We KNOW it was bad, everyone knows it was bad, it is bad.

It is bad.  It has turned out to have been a terrible, bad move.

We can all agree on the fact that it is not good.

Can we all move on from that one point of agreement into how it can be improved?

[Grasshopper]

Can we all move on from that one point of agreement into how it can be improved?

Well for a start Iraq should be put under UN control and then peacekeepers should be brought in from mainly non-western (and preferably Muslim) countries. Then an independent UN body should be set up to decide which countries/companies get the oil contracts.

I also think the possibility of partitioning Iraq should be explored. Iraq is basically an artificial country created in the colonial era anyway. History tells us that partitioning is rarely a good idea but things are so bad over there that perhaps this is now the least worst option.

If partitioning was judged to be a viable option then there would have to be an Iraqi referendum to see if the Iraqi people found the idea acceptable. Attempting to impose a solution without the consent of the Iraqis would be a recipe for disaster.

[ChadTower]

So, what proof do we have that the UN can be trusted?  The Oil For Food scam was pretty freakin' bad, you know.

The other problem there is that Muslim countries don't exactly have a great record of peacekeeping.  Granted, we ain't doing that much better of a job lately, but I don't know if the people of Iraq would be safe installing someone else's Muslim leadership.

[Crazy Cooter]

[blunt & crude answer]

About the only thing we can do is wait for the dust of the civil war to settle.  The UN won't go in to fix things, it's too risky.  If the place is cut up into sectors, we'll be dealing with the Gaza Strip tenfold.  Right now, the elected officials already feel like they're under someone elses leadership because they can't agree on anything.  Plus the people in the streets feel like their country is occupied by US forces.  It's all a HUGE mess.  Probably the best thing (for the US anyhow) to do right now is slowly step out the back door while trying to convince the UN to go in.  It will still be a mess and get messier, but we'd free up enough of our military so we can actually protect ourselves should something happen.  Plus I think our boys and girls (and America in general) would feel better if we were hunting Osama rather than acting as rent-a-cops.  Right now if something happened we'd be in a draft situation and really be screwed.  We can't train Iraqi's in 2 years, yet we'd be training our own kids in 30 days

The oil contracts are a mess too.  Each group is fighting for "control" of it (another reason why dividing it up wouldn't work).  Whoever calls the shots for oil, calls the shots for the country.  Whichever group gains control of it will be undersiege from the others.  That's why I think civil war is imminent.

[/blunt & crude answer]

[mr.Curmudgeon]

It's an endless diuretic spray of flatulence that never gets anyone anywhere other than pissed off.

Unlike this diuretic spray of flatulence, which will hopefully cheer people up: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=41943.0

mrC

[ChadTower]

Probably the best thing (for the US anyhow) to do right now is slowly step out the back door while trying to convince the UN to go in.

[Crazy Cooter]

Doesn't leave much for options then.  Either stay and "support" what's happening, or leave.

Either way... well...   

[ChadTower]

Well, when a situation sucks, you own up to it and do what is best moving forward.  You've pretty much summed it up.  Sitting around bitching about how the 'solution' is to have not gone in in the first place doesn't fix anything.

We stay and try to finish whatever job is still there to be done, or we leave and accept what develops on its own.

We will end up staying.

[Crazy Cooter]

We stay and try to finish whatever job is still there to be done, or we leave and accept what develops on its own.

We will end up staying.

I think that's why some people are pushing for an "exit strategy".  They want to know at what point do we say: "Well, we've done all we can here.  Let's go home."  If we keep recycling our guys back into Iraq for four more years, Iraq won't be the only one facing a civil war.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Well, when a situation sucks, you own up to it and do what is best moving forward.  You've pretty much summed it up.  Sitting around bitching about how the 'solution' is to have not gone in in the first place doesn't fix anything.

Why should I "own up to it"? Why should ANYONE on the left, those whose majority had been against the war in Iraq since it's inception, "own up to it"?

Why can't we work on a solution, while at the same time working to dismantle the party in charge of the blunder? How do you suppose one SOLVE the problem when those who created it, ARE STILL IN CHARGE?

It's perfectly reasonable to posit that part *of* the solution is holding Bush and Co. responsible so that the GOP and those Dems that supported it are forced to think TWICE before following a similar path in the future. Someone must pay a political price for this horrific situation, and I can think of no one better than the man who started it (and his party).

Stop with the "don't bash Bush, just come up with a solution" crap...it's nonsense. We can (and should) do both.

mrC

[Avery]

UN forces are mostly US forces with 5 or 6 people from Britain and a couple of guys from Belgium bringing up the rear.