Social Security reform

[DrewKaree]

All joking aside, you've failed to recognize that the DEMOCRATS aren't the ones claiming Social Security is in crisis and needs to be raided, IMMEDIATELY!!!!

It's why this fight is so idiotic.  We've got politicians on both sides of the aisle claiming when they're not in charge that something needs to be fixed, and THEY hold the key to fixing it all, and THEY'D fix it, if not for those pesky troublemakers on the other side.

In Clinton's administration he stated the problem, Republicans said the same thing Democrats are saying now.

Now that Bush is stating the problem, Democrats are taking the Republican stance.


The problem has been pointed out by both sides, the problem has been said to not be fixable by both sides "unless we work TOGETHER on fixing it", and the end result is politicians worried more about covering their own asses than in actually looking at the problem, nailing down what the actual numbers are, finding out if there IS a problem (which both sides seem to agree that there is, depending on WHEN you ask them), and doing what they were elected to do:

Work to do what is best for the people they represent!


All these dumbass "studies" and "reports" that tell people one thing or the other, which they don't agree with because it doesn't "help" them in some way, so they commission their own that tells them the exact OPPOSITE!  No wonder our government is so damn bloated. 

Thankfully, all these reports are paid for with our tax money to tell us that the party not in the White House at the moment doesn't want to fix the problem and give credit to the party that IS in the White House at the moment.

Seriously, these are the guys we want fixing the problem, right?

[fredster]

Social Security has a savings account.  Right now, SS takes in more than it spends.

Uh, I don't think so. The "takes in more that it spends" goes to the general funds and we see it at work in other places. 

Show me where the savings account is and how much is in it.

The concept of "Pay as you Go" means we are paying out, it's not being saved.  That's the whole point of this thread.

There is no savings account Cooter. Where is it?  It just means that there are more people paying in now than get the money, so it's easy to budget for it. 

Where is our economist? 

[DrewKaree]

This is a simple do-the-math investigation

Go to www.ssa.gov and find Social Security's calculators.

Enter in your figures as if you were earning $15,000 a year.  Pretty low standard, wouldn't you say?

What's your monthly benefit?

Now, for ease of math's sake, let's say the rate you pay is 10%, and the cap on payments INTO the system is at $90,000.  That means if you make a million dollars, you are only paying into S.S. at that rate.  That means the MOST someone pays into S.S. (assuming our simplified percentage) is $9,000.

Let's go back to our calculation of the dude earning 15k a year.  Do the math and figure out his yearly amount paid from S.S.  See a problem there?

If you DON'T see a problem there, or at the very least, one that WILL be developing when Baby Boomers start to retire in those vast numbers they say are out there, then let me help you a bit further.

Go back to the calculator.  Let's use the dude who gets 90k.  Figure out his monthly amount from S.S. since HE TOO, is going to be getting S.S.

NOW do you see where S.S. will be shortly headed down a road that needs to be fixed?

Using S.S. and the figures they give, the picture the "there is no crisis" crowd paints can be seen by anyone with a fifth-grade education to be ignorant of the facts easily obtained from the Social Security Administration.

SOMETHING will have to be done, and soon.  Some avenues to fix it are:

• Reduce benefits - imagine the stink THAT will cause!
• Raise the "you have to pay in" cap - why it's where it's at even I'm mystified
  
• Raise the amount collected - imagine the stink THAT will cause!
• Offer the ability to invest a portion of your money where you want.

The raising of (or altogether removing) the cap is nothing more than a band-aid solution.  The size of the band-aid is dependent on how far up the ladder you want to go, and does nothing to address the fact you learned with the simple calculators that Social Security Insurance is currently being looked at as a retirement plan, and that it's so far removed from its initial purpose simply for political purposes - by BOTH sides.

Look at S.S.'s FAQ's.  Still today they state that S.S. "is only one of three legs that should be utilized as a whole to plan for your retirement", ignoring the fact that politicians will use them as a carrot when seeking power for themselves.

[daywane]

Is there some huge untapped savings account I'm not aware of for Social security?

Yes.

[fredster]

Yep, the savings account is a "lock box" full of US treasury bonds.

You know, government "IOU's" That's our big savings account. IOU's.

I got all kinda warm fuzzies over that. Cause if we cash them in, the goverment takes money out of the general fund and pays them.  You know, they don't go to the bank, they dig it out of their taxes for that month or day.

[daywane]

I have heard this all my life. I do not say it is true. just i have heard it from relatives that in WW2 the government sold war bonds to SS and SS still has them . If SS would turn them in it would bankrupt the US?

[DrewKaree]

So I had to get a replacement Social Security card the other day and....

[daywane]

I like that. I just might print that and send it to my congress man.

[daywane]

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT!
KEEP IT GOING!!!!

2008 Election Issue!!

GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC. SEC.
This must be an issue in "2008 ". Please! Keep it going.

----------------------------------
SOCIAL SECURITY:
(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.)

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years.
Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society.  They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.
In more recent years, no congress person has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments..
This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries. For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives.
Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH....
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds;
"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"!
From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into,-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)-we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement.
Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator! Bill Bradley's benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.

That change would be to:
Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us.
then sit back.....
and watch how fast they would fix it.
If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve.
How many people can YOU send this to? Better yet.....
How many people WILL you send this to??
Keep this going clear up thru the 2008 election!! We need to be heard

[mr.Curmudgeon]

GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC. SEC.

Now, this is something I think we can *all* agree on!

Now that Bush is stating the problem, Democrats are taking the Republican stance.

At issue, with me, is Bush "overstating" the problem. I already don't trust him on any level. Not because he's a Republican, but because his actions over the past several years have shown to me that he says one thing, does another, and lies about it six ways to Sunday.

I'm glad he's being fought hard on this issue. I don't think his position on SS is tenable. Hell, even the GOA (Government Accountability Office) doesn't agree with (W)MD's fearmongering about the "CRISIS!!!!!!"

Social Security "does not face an immediate crisis," the head of the Government Accountability Office said Wednesday, but it does face a long-term financing problem "and it would be prudent to address it sooner rather than later." [Link]

Seriously, these are the guys we want fixing the problem, right?

Well, if you and I could vote on the floor of the House and Senate, there wouldn't be a problem now would there. But we can't. So the best we can do, as I've suggested before, and as you seem to be suggesting now, is to demand our "ELECTED" leaders vote our wishes, and hold them responsible when they do *not*.

The best thing born out of Bush's "screamin' Mimi" approach, is that the Dems have woken up and will now hopefully listen to their constituents, forming a more solvent plan. Social Security is fixable, and it's NOT in crisis. Bush doesn't want debate on this issue, because he knows he's wrong.

Believe me, we on the left have NO PROBLEM pushing out those who hurt our cause. Lieberman (D-CT) is going to get it for dancing with the Devil on the SS issue, and Joe Biden (D-MBNA) just kissed his '08 presidential bid bye-bye when he voted for cloture on the "Bankrupt Bill."

My hope is the the fight over SS will allow us to continue "cleaning house" on this side of the aisle and help finish the backbone grafting surgery the HoDean started, as well as put the thumbscrews to the Republicans in '06.


mrC

[fredster]

Right, we aren't dead yet.  Bush said that too.

SS doesn't start to decline until 2014.  But as long as it takes the government to do something, 9 years isn't a long time.   That quote was right on, because that's all that has been said so far.

What I like is now that you are admitting there may be a problem now we can solve before it gets too big.  That's an advance. 

I like the idea of personal accounts, but as I mentioned before, there's a lot of open issues.

I also like the idea of paying no taxes at all ever again, but there are issues there too.

Just because Bush put it out there doesn't mean it's a bad idea.  Bush is just following through like he always does. You know, he does what he says he will.  He doesn't make empty threats or promises.  I'm sure as a democrat, that's upsetting to have a politician follow through on his word.  You aren't used to that from your candidates and it's unsettling for you.

And oh, Please make sure that Biden doesn't go anywhere. I like that Idea too.  Very good idea. 

Joe, I don't care what you do with Joe.  Whatever you guys want.

[DrewKaree]

I also like the idea of paying no taxes at all ever again, but there are issues there too.

From the Steve Martin School of Accounting:

How to be a millionaire, and NEVER pay taxes

First, get a million bucks.....

Then, don't pay taxes.  If the IRS comes around and asks you why you haven't been paying your taxes, tell them two simple words from the English language.

I

Forgot!

[DrewKaree]

This just in:

March 20, 2005
BUSH OFFERS RETIREES OPTION OF SERVING IN IRAQ

Social Security Participants Given Wide Choice of Iraqi Cities to Patrol

After receiving only muted support for his sweeping proposals to overhaul Social Security, President George W. Bush attempted to sweeten the pot today, offering all retirees the opportunity to serve in Iraq.

With most insiders calling the president's proposal for individual investment accounts dead on arrival in Congress, the White House hopes that Mr. Bush's offer of guaranteed military service to all retired Americans will find more favor.

Speaking at a rally in Detroit today, the president told his audience, "In the year 2054, the Social Security trust fund will be bankrupt, but the war in Iraq will be alive and well."

Under his new plan, the president said, upon reaching the age of 59 every participant in the Social Security program would be offered the opportunity to begin basic training for what Mr. Bush called "the adventure of their lives."

According to the president, retirees would be "totally free to choose" which Iraqi city they would like to patrol from a list of twenty cities including Baghdad, Tikrit, Fallujah, and oil-rich Kirkuk.

Mr. Bush added that the average retiree serving in Iraq would earn approximately $1500 a month, which would be boosted to $1800 if the retiree should somehow stumble across weapons of mass destruction.

In Washington, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said he was "intrigued" by the notion of spending his retirement years in Iraq but that he had decided to run the World Bank instead.

Elsewhere, antiwar protesters across Europe marked the second anniversary of President Bush ignoring antiwar protesters across Europe.

www.borowitzreport.com
(taking this report seriously could require a funny-bone transplant)

[daywane]

I repeat from a post I made before.
when Clinton was in charge and Bush and Al gore were fighting it out
Al gore scream all about SS
republicans screamed fear mongering
nor Republicans cry OHHH my god SS is going to die
Democrats cry fear mongering
 I give up
lets elect factory workers, truck drivers, waitresses.
working class. not some spoon feed $$$$ bags who has not a clue.

[Dartful Dodger]

when Clinton was in charge and Bush and Al gore were fighting it out
Al gore scream all about SS

Dude STOP!

Didn't you get the memo? 

Don't complain about Bush and Gore.  The Dems don't want to remind people the only reason they hate Bush is because he beat Gore.

[Crazy Cooter]

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/wm31_democrats/062905_house_republicans_abandon_principle_in_attempt_to_scam_the_american_people.html

"Washington, D.C. - Rep. Charles B. Rangel, pointed out today how the Ways and Means Republicans have unceremoniously removed one of the principles behind their so-called

[DrewKaree]

"Washington, D.C. - Rep. Charles B. Rangel, pointed out today how the Ways and Means Republicans have unceremoniously removed one of the principles behind their so-called

[geomartin]

I'm not too worried about my Social Security benefits.  The Social Security Administration will simply keep raising the retirement age until a sufficient number of my generation have deceased and that the lucky few will get their two or three years of Social Security benefits, after paying in for the 50, 60, or 70 some odd years that the Social Security Administration deems adequate to cover my generations costs.

[hanelyp]

Social security is a Ponze Scheme, wealth transfer, boondoggle, doomed from the start to collapse.  It's kept going this long only because the government has compelled 'investors' in the program.  It was origionally designed as a safety net, but as with many govenrment programs, it has expanded in scope.

As for the shifting stances of the parties, I believe the democrats were proposing a different 'solution' to the problem, and it was the proposed change the Republicans objected to, not the overall idea of fixing the system.

Not planning to rely on social security for retirement is a good idea.  Private investments will give you a better rate of return anyway.

[Crazy Cooter]

It's awful hard for me to care about anything Rangel points out when he shares responsibility with those he's whining about.

I don't care for the guy wither, but it does concern me that what *should* be the most important line has been taken out.  Without it, all this is going to do is "reset" the whole problem.  Doesn't matter if its the fault of the republicans, democrats, or any of the other... oh wait...

[DrewKaree]

It's awful hard for me to care about anything Rangel points out when he shares responsibility with those he's whining about.

I don't care for the guy wither, but it does concern me that what *should* be the most important line has been taken out.  Without it, all this is going to do is "reset" the whole problem.  Doesn't matter if its the fault of the republicans, democrats, or any of the other... oh wait...

My concern is whether this was sent up without being read or not, and who actually did the transcription.  It seems EXTREMELY odd that Rangel got the jump on everyone to be the first to wail about this. 

Until he tells us about the process HE was involved with that resulted in this "disappearing principle", I have no reason to believe the accuracy and truth of this story.  Right now, it's a claim by a man who should be intimately involved in the process, which should also mean he KNOWS why the line was removed, or he's using an error for political bickering.

I'll start to worry about this after I hear Mr Rangel's explanation.  Clearly since he's one of the head guys, he'll be able to tell us how this all came about and why his "stamp of approval" ran out of ink before this went to press.

[Crazy Cooter]

I'm not so sure he's smart enough.

But it *apparently* is removed... is there any way to view it ourselves?

I'm disappointed at how much we as the public are kept in the dark about this kind of stuff.  50,000 ways to find out who's sleeping with who in Hollywood, but nobody wants to talk about our Social Security changes until it's too late.  I think I need to run for office (and win) just so I can keep informed myself.

[DrewKaree]

You'll get voted out soon enough after they catch on, PLUS the amount of reading you'll be deluged with will be the reason why you have staffers (here son, read this for me and prepare a brief with the bullet points so I can get up to speed on this).

You could try speed-reading or memory programs, if the Scientology expert hasn't gotten to you already

[Crazy Cooter]

No problem, I grew up in the "true" arcade era:

Who can do a headstand and read eveything on the newsstand...

LOL.