To anyone who's worked on SS Pinballs, a question

[USSEnterprise]

I might be getting a Williams "Flash" machine, and it will most likely require PCB work. I think it uses Williams System 4 boards. My question is: Are the ICs on these boards in sockets or soldered directly to the PCB? Its the difference between buying and not buying. Thanks

[Ken Layton]

Most of the IC's on the cpu board are soldered in, but the ROM chips are socketed. The driver board has ALL IC's soldered in.

[USSEnterprise]

great
Hopefully I won't need to do anything to extensive, but according to the Pinball Repair Guide, I might have to.

[ChadTower]

You probably won't, since the pinball boards are far better documented than arcade PCBs and the failures easier to track down once you understand the way the MPU of that particular system works.

[Ken Layton]

PinLED now makes a brand new modern universal Williams system 3 to 7 cpu board much like Alltek Systems makes the "Ultimate MPU" board for old Bally pinball games. PinLED is also now making replacement driver boards too for the Williams machines. They are very reasonably priced too. If you find that it's going to be too difficult or expensive to repair the boards on that Flash then buying these new modern replacements makes sense.

The announcement for these new boards was just posted on rec.games.pinball a couple of days ago.

[ChadTower]

I saw that, it's very, very cool.  I have a Laser Cue (system 7) that just may be getting one of those new boards.

[Ken Layton]

And don't forget that PinLED has a good reputation for building quality products. Highly recommended.

[ChadTower]

It mostly depends on how functional the board that is actually in there, once I get to that machine.  If it's not operational but close, I'll repair it.  If it's more than a simple fix, I'll replace it, then repair the older board to use as a backup at a later point.

[ChadTower]

Anyway, back to this guy's issue... if you get the machine, post here with the issue it is having and we'll help you solve it.  If the price is good enough, buy it and learn the skills.  It is worth it.

Wow, just checked out the artwork.  That's some cool art.

[USSEnterprise]

Yeah, and the playfield is pretty cool for a machine of the era. When I fixed up my current machine, an EM, I used http://www.marvin3m.com/fix.htm this site religiously. They also have a few pages all about the different systems in the SS machines. And if all I have to do is replace a few chips, most of which are still available, it shouldn't be a problem. Only thing I'm concerned about is finding an EPROM burner in the event that its ROMS are screwed up in some way.

[TheOtherBob]

If you think it is the eproms... just post a WTB in rec.games.pinball and I'm sure someone will be able to hook you up.

If you need to do IC work and you're on a budget and lack a desoldering tool, get that Radio Shack desoldering iron that Clay lists at http://www.marvin3m.com/begin/index.htm it has worked really good for me... far better than braid and a soldapult alone imo.  I can remove chips much quicker and cleaner without having to put so much heat on the board.  If funds aren't an issue definitely get a decent desoldering tool of some sort.

If you don't want to tackle that kind of job and a replacement is too spendy.  Look in to Clive's place for board repair: http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/brepairs.html  At least by following Clay's site you'll have a good idea to which board needs work and then you can send it out.

Have fun! 

[USSEnterprise]

I have a solder sucker I got from Radioshack a few months ago. But I don't think I'm gonna get the Flash. Upon requesting more pictures, I noticed that there was a good amount of backglass flaking and don't want to deal with that. But, there is another seller who has two non working SS machines, Solar Ride and Close Encounters of the Third Kind, both of which use Gottlieb System 1. Anyone have experience on those?

[ChadTower]

Pretty much, if you have experience with machines of that era, it can be applied to any of the MPUs.  It's more about knowing how to read the matrices in the manual and track down issues, far less knowing specifically which transistor is tied to which 8 lamp circuit off the top of your head.

Get to know how to read the manuals and how to track down an issue and it will help you in any SS pin.

[Ken Layton]

There are some replacement Gottlieb boards now being manufactured for those old games. Gottlieb used some chips that are no longer available.

[Karetaker]

Ooohhhhhhh Gottlieb *shivers*. I have a Gottlieb Rocky I'm working on for a home call at the moment. What a nighmare! It had a shorted bridge, so I thought it would be an easy fix. No such luck, that was only the tip of the iceburg.

[ChadTower]

MM, shorted bridge, AC into the boards, zap fry heat cook die.

[USSEnterprise]

I'd think you'd be better off replacing the whole board. Yeesh. I guess this is an advantage of EM's

[USSEnterprise]

Well, after looking on the net, and seeing how difficult repair on Gottlieb System 1 is, I'm starting to wonder if I should bother. If worse comes to worse, I suppose I could replace every integrated circuit, transistor, diode, and electrolytic capacitor in the thing.

[USSEnterprise]

I've been doing some reading. Is there an IC in Gottlieb System 1 that is basically obsolete and irreplaceible?

[Ken Layton]

Yes, it is the 6532 chip I think. But don't worry, The Ni-Wumpf brand replacement Gottlieb system 1 CPU board is an improved and modernized replacement board for the original and uses modern easily obtainable parts. There's a guy also selling modern replacement power supplies for these pinballs too.

Read the Gottlieb System 80 repair guide on marvin3m.com as many of the grounding modifications also apply to system 1. Same goes for the connector pin replacements. After doing those mods the game will be bullet-proof and very dependable.

[USSEnterprise]

The Ni-Wumpf brand replacement Gottlieb system 1 CPU board is an improved and modernized replacement board for the original and uses modern easily obtainable parts. There's a guy also selling modern replacement power supplies for these pinballs too.

How much do the replacement boards cost? From what the guy was saying, he hadn't used it in 6 years. It was working, and now it dosen't. It was kept in a climate controlled, finished basement

[Ken Layton]

Marco Specialties (and several other pinball parts dealers) stocks the Ni-Wumpf board. Check with them for the price, but IIRC, it was around $200.

Rottendog Amusements (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rottendog/index.htm) has the replacement power supply board.

[USSEnterprise]

Then I'm going to try my best to repair the board

[USSEnterprise]

wait, is this the chip?

Link

[ChadTower]

I'll support what Ken said, get it working, make the couple of simple mods to circumvent a couple of design flaws, and your machine should stand up to home use for a long time.

[TheOtherBob]

I've done a couple system 1's.  The cpu isn't a 6532.  It is some kind of rockwell 4 bit thingy.  If you look at the mpu you'll see 5-6 big chips that look a bit like spiders.  Those aren't available anymore but a post to rec.games.pinball might turn up a few pulls.  If it is one of those, I'd suggest an aftermarket replacement for the mpu.  There is a board available that replaces all 3 boards (power supply, mpu, and driver) in the head.  Often the chips aren't what has failed, it is something else.

I'm guessing these machines have battery corrosion damage and connector issues.  That's the biggest problem with system 1 is the connectors.  Expect to replace all of them.... that is generally the first suspect.

Go here for system 1 repair info:
http://flipperit.net/tkalliok/flipperi/sys1_en.html

Have fun!