Cheapest place to get Windows XP?

[Timstuff]

Where can I get a copy of Windows XP, full-install, without Service pack 2? There was a price comparison website that I once went to where they had it listed for pretty cheap, but unfortunately that site no longer exists so I'm back to square one. Any suggestions?

[JoyMonkey]

Have a look on pricewatch.com for OEM versions. I think all copies of XP now come with SP2 built in though. Perhaps eBay might be a better bet?

[Howard_Casto]

If I can ask the obvious question. Why in the world would you want a copy without service pack 2?  All service pack 2 does is add some cool new options (like an improved firewall) and fix bugs.  It's nothing but good.

[USSEnterprise]

Microsoft could never come out with something that fixes all the bugs in XP. The expeerience I have had with SP2 has been bad. The firewall makes my PC freeze, and I don't like being bugged about automatic updates. I like to do things for myself. Ebay is probably your best bet, or the used section of Amazon

[daveg2000]

I use a couple programs that 'die' once SP2 is on the machine,
thus, on a few of my machines, I am forced to keep SP1 on it.

[Howard_Casto]

You guys are the minority unfortuantely.  The problem is all it takes is one person complaining about their bad experince to shy hundreds or even thousands away from a wonderful product. 

[AlanS17]

It's the "rule of 10" in the business world. One positive remark equals 10 negative remarks.

Speaking of 10... if you don't like automatric updates, it takes 10 seconds to turn them off.

[arcadegamenut]

Have a look on pricewatch.com for OEM versions. I think all copies of XP now come with SP2 built in though. Perhaps eBay might be a better bet?

My thoughts exactly. If you have Ye Ol' Computer Shop somewhere close by, go over and buy an OEM anything (Hard drive, memory, etc). You automatically qualify to receive an OEM version of Windows. We're talking XP Pro for $125 or so.....

[Tiger-Heli]

Maybe here, but I haven't dealt with them personally:

http://www.store.yahoo.com/glob2000/frshwixphoed1.html

Also -

http://www.pricewatch.com/prc.aspx?i=182&a=4180

[daveg2000]

The problem is all it takes is one person complaining about their bad experince to shy hundreds or even thousands away from a wonderful product.

[zaphod]

Are you a student?  If so, you can purchase a copy with an academic discount.  I took advantage of this quite a bit when I was still one.

http://www.journeyed.com/itemDetail.asp?T1=55481723

[ddockery]

I love it when people complain about features that you can turn off.  Don't like the XP Firewall? I don't either, and it's off.  Auto updates?  Same thing.

[USSEnterprise]

I know you can turn them off, but unless you go into msconfig, you are constantly getting told that you should turn them back on.

[daveg2000]

YOu can actually disable that too.
If you go CTRL PANEL, SECURITY CENTER, then on the left, look for CHANGE THE WAY SECURITY CENTER ALERTS ME, here you can uncheck to keep the annoying bubbles off your screen.

[Timstuff]

I hated Service Pack 2 because it made many programs un-useable. Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief: Deadly Shadows would crash after about 10 seconds of play every time I tried to use them, and I was about to pull out my hair after a few weeks, when my Mom suggested taking SP2 off the computer. It was a heckuvalot of work to get it off of there without re-formating the hard drive, but once it was off the programs stopped crashing. To make sure that I don't end up with the same problems of my custom arcade cab PC, I want to make sure that the copy of XP I have is only SP1. I know that it's still avalible because there were many sites selling it at the listings site I used to go to.

[Timstuff]

Through pricewatch, I think I've found a pretty good deal.

http://www.royaldiscount.com/wixphosp1fuv.html

Now I just need some monies to buy it with.

[SOAPboy]

If I can ask the obvious question. Why in the world would you want a copy without service pack 2?

[elvis]

SP2 introduces nothing to the system that will make it unstable or crash.  People who do insist their machines crash post SP2, I can guarantee it isn't the service pack, but something else in your system.

Installing Windows with SP2 "slipstreamed" is the smart way to do things - you can either buy Windows with SP2 included, or if you already own Windows, there are tools that will slipstream SP2 into the Windows install, which you can use then burn to a CD and kep handy for when you next need to reinstall. 

Even outside of the software firewall, SP2 introduces a hell of a lot of fixes to known vulnerabilities in Windows that SP1 itself will not protect you against.  The firewall is only one single feature out of many that makes SP2 a "must have".  Anyone who spends any time on the SecurityFocus or CERT lists will tell you the same.

If you are masochistic enough to run windows and access the net simultaneously, then at least run it fully patched and up to date.  Not doing so is internet suicide.

And likewise, SP2 itself is not enough any more.  Make sure you visit the WindowsUpdate site regularly, and install critical updates as they appear.

I can't stress how much people need to do this.  I make a living fixing networks for people who don't listen to these simple, basic steps.  And there's only so many times one can say "I told you so" before it gets old.

[Timstuff]

All I know is that once SP2 was off the computer, my games started working again. I'm sure that SP2 does bring some beneficial stuff to the PC, but it's not worth the aggrivation of having the games I spent $50 a piece on no longer be playable.

[SirPoonga]

Did you try reinstalling the game?  I know some software will fail after sp2, because of hte security and network changes.  But in general games should be fine.

The only game I haven't got to work is an old combat flight sim that was meant for 95 anyway.

[jcrouse]

I hated Service Pack 2 because it made many programs un-useable. Deus Ex: Invisible War and Thief: Deadly Shadows would crash after about 10 seconds of play every time I tried to use them,

Will you be running these on a cabinet? I doubt it.

my Mom suggested taking SP2 off the computer. It was a heckuvalot of work to get it off of there without re-formating the hard drive, but once it was off the programs stopped crashing.

This probably makes you eligable for having one of the most unstable systems around and you think SP2 is problems.

Just my 2 cents,
John

[Timstuff]

Did you try reinstalling the game?  I know some software will fail after sp2, because of hte security and network changes.  But in general games should be fine.

The only game I haven't got to work is an old combat flight sim that was meant for 95 anyway.

I did reinstall the programs mutliple times after the crashes started. Believe me, I tried everything. I must've called tech support 5 times to try and get to the bottom of it, and the culprit was SP2.

[SOAPboy]

Did you try reinstalling the game?

[Bill Mote]

Have you ever asked how people (usually that call themselves tech geeks) upgrade their systems?  I have known many an idiot that will get new hardware and drop in their old hard drive and let 98/2k/XP try to work it all out.  That's how most of the people I know have tried to "upgrade" their systems.  The result is a system that constantly crashes and experiences other oddities.

My point?  Start fresh with XP and upgrade to SP2, or get it with SP2.  If you do that you shouldn't have any problems with your system.  I have both SP1 upgraded and SP2 original installations and the machines are more stable and more secure (if you can use that in reference to a M$ OS) than their SP1 counterparts.

Once you have your system freshly loaded disable all unnecessary services: http://dhost.info/kyeu/mirror/blackviper/WinXP/servicecfg.htm

You can even take that 1 step farther by installing Microsoft's Security Toolkit for Shared Computers: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sharedaccess/overview.mspx  This would allow you to keep changes from happening (without the administrators password) once you have your cabinet setup the way you want it.

dot

[Effayy]

Have you ever asked how people (usually that call themselves tech geeks) upgrade their systems?

[richms]

SP2 breaks TCP/IP intentionally  by limiting the number of connections that can be waiting a responce from the other end. If the host its connecting to is down or the packet gets dropped, they can sit like this for a good few seconds. Doesnt take many before your machine starts filling the event log with crap about reaching the limit and apps start to misbehave. It affects everything, incuding the ability to access shares.

At the end of the day, I couldnt reliably run any p2p apps on SP2, they would keep losing access to the shares with files on, and transfers would often fail to start. going back to SP none (Thankfully I ghosted before installing it) and the problems went away.

It really annoys me that MS can take away functionality in something that I have bought in the disguise of it being a securty feature.

[elvis]

SP2 breaks TCP/IP intentionally  by limiting the number of connections that can be waiting a responce from the other end. If the host its connecting to is down or the packet gets dropped, they can sit like this for a good few seconds. Doesnt take many before your machine starts filling the event log with crap about reaching the limit and apps start to misbehave. It affects everything, incuding the ability to access shares.

At the end of the day, I couldnt reliably run any p2p apps on SP2, they would keep losing access to the shares with files on, and transfers would often fail to start. going back to SP none (Thankfully I ghosted before installing it) and the problems went away.

It really annoys me that MS can take away functionality in something that I have bought in the disguise of it being a securty feature.

Are you talking about QoS?  If so, (a) that's not how it works and (b) it can be disabled.

And really, REALLY seriously, if you are actively downloading content from P2P without any service packs, you are asking for heaps of trouble.  It's a ticking bomb.

Try SP2, allow all P2P specific tcp-port connections through the firewall (or turn it off al together and use a standalone firewall/router with proper port forwarding) and ensure you have QoS TURNED OFF.

I build large networks for a living, as well as contract out to home users on the odd occasion.  In EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE where I've helped home users with home networking and P2P setups, it has been a misconfiguration on the user's behalf that has limited functionailty.  There are plenty of FAQs on P2P sites (the BitTorrent places are usualy VERY friendly and have plenty of info) and these will get you running at optimal speed, even with P2P.

I download all of my Linux ISOs through Bittorrent.  My dedicated Bittorrent machine is a WindowsXP SP2 box sitting behind a Linux firewall.   I ALWAYS get full speed torrent downloads with no hiccups.  If you have issues, I say again: IT IS NOT SERVICE PACK 2.  It is your setup, and you need to configure it correctly.

My configuration is as such:

1) On my standalone firewall (running Smoothwall Linux), I have all TCP information on ports 6881 through 6889 unblocked and forwarded to my BitTorrent downloader.  These are the standard communication ports for torrent, and if blocked will result in your torrent speeds capping themselves at very low levels (usually around a few bytes per second).  Other services will use different ports, and you need to look these up.

2) Internally my torrent machine has it's firewall turned off.  I consider my LAN secure, and protected by my edge firewall device.  If you have users on your LAN who you don't trust, you may need to trun this on, and allow exceptions for ports 6881-6889 as before.

3) The torrent machine has only standard TCP/IP networking enabled, and QoS TURNED OFF.  Other than a vanilla WindowsXP SP2 install with all of the latest updates applied, the only other security software is a copy of Grisoft AVG Anti-Virus (free for home users), which is set to realtime scan, as well as update daily, and do a complete system scan at 3:00AM every day.

Follow those basic steps on your network, and I can guarantee you'll see full speed on your P2P downloads, even with SP2 installed.

[richms]

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2netwk.mspx#EIAA

describes the changes that MS made in SP with respect to limiting incomplete TCP connections.

There is no need for SP anything on the machine, its hidden from the internet by the nat in the router, and there are only the required ports for the p2p applications fowarded thru to it. No other programs are used on the PC, I access it via remote desktop from one of the other machines to manage downloads as its running in the garage since its noisy. If I was going to use IE on it, then servicepack and antiviruses would be needed, but I dont, so they are not.

Also the 6881 range of ports is blocked from a lot of trackers as it is generally severly rate limited by ISPs - ones I use recommend a random port in the 40000 range as recommended by some RFC.

[elvis]

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2netwk.mspx#EIAA

describes the changes that MS made in SP with respect to limiting incomplete TCP connections.

There is no need for SP anything on the machine, its hidden from the internet by the nat in the router, and there are only the required ports for the p2p applications fowarded thru to it. No other programs are used on the PC, I access it via remote desktop from one of the other machines to manage downloads as its running in the garage since its noisy. If I was going to use IE on it, then servicepack and antiviruses would be needed, but I dont, so they are not.

Also the 6881 range of ports is blocked from a lot of trackers as it is generally severly rate limited by ISPs - ones I use recommend a random port in the 40000 range as recommended by some RFC.

All that link states is

1) that TCP information originating from out of range IP addresses will be ignored.  I don't understand how that affects peer to peer, as all users must have valid IP addresses.

2) That the total outbound rate of TCP packets is limited.  But still, I've used BitTorrent on a 2mbit/s synchronous fibre corporate connection under SP2, and not noticed the difference.  You can still connect to as many peers as you like, it's just that they'll be put in a queue if there's too many.  It's designed to limit (D)DoS attacks flooding your outbound connection.  If you actually connected to that many peers (we're talking MILLIONS, not a few tens or hundreds) on a non-SP2 box, you'd flood your outbound limit and slow your download down anyway.  I've seen symptoms of that happen where multiple users behind a NAT on consumer level ADSL all connected to different torrent shares, and killed the connection as the outbound ACKs flooded it.

And I seriously doubt you'd hit those sorts of limits with normal P2P networks.  See the EventID discussion here:
http://eventid.net/display.asp?eventid=4226&eventno=4252&source=Tcpip&phase=1

They seem to indicate it only occurs on non-resolvable or unreachable addresses anyway (generally massive use of non-reachable ports is a sign of pingsweeping or viral attack).  Again, it should not affect your P2P unless something is wrong with your client or the server it is connecting to.

But anyway, I'm glad to hear that at the very least you are protecting the machine from the web, and limiting the use of applications from it.  It seems you are proactively aware of the security risks and doing something about it.  Still, I just feel far too uneasy about not patching Windows machines with any sort of web access.  Call me paranoid, but I've avoided many an attack for myself and my clients where others have failed.

My ISP is one of the few that is nice enough to not listen to draconian US legal demands, and does not limit the rate of any TCP ports.  It's nice to know that some international ISPs are brave enough to tell US lawyers to go jump, and secondly that they trust their users enough to know that P2P isn't all warez and crap.  Some of us much prefer P2P for downloading legally free software and media that would otherwise take eons thanks to overpopulated underrated servers, costing the hosters thousands in the process for something they are giving away for naught.

Corporate America seems totally incapable of understanding that some people code for fun, and like to give this stuff away for free.

"Free?  But that's not cost effective?!?!?!?!"