Gas prices

[ChadTower]

No, this isn't another thread to ---smurfette--- about rising gas prices.

I'm just wondering how hard some US folks have been hit and what you may have done to adjust for the rapidly rising cost. 

My wife and I replaced the larger of our two cars with a more fuel efficient car.  We would have replaced it anyway, since the old one had real problems, but the rising cost of fuel was a real factor in what we chose.  In the end, we went with a car that was more fuel efficient (Elantra) than we would have otherwise.

I've also used cost of fuel as one of my employment parameters.  I was looking for a new job over the spring and proximity became a larger factor than usual.  I had been driving 40 miles each way and the cost of doing that was reaching $200/month.  Now I have a job that is 12 miles away and we're saving $150/month on gas alone.

So, I've been able to make some adjustments, but I was lucky enough to be in a position to do so in key areas.  What are other people doing, if anything?

[Stingray]

Not doing anything different. I still have to go to work, so I still fill up the car once a week, just costs a little more now.

-S

[daywane]

Try to do all shoping in one day.
Or I pick up needed items on way home from work.
Got blazer running again. cheeper then the Rx7 to run 

[shmokes]

So far not much, but I'll be buying a car in the next 6 -10 months.  I had been looking at a WRX, but now I'm seriously considering a Prius.  In the past hybrids were environmentally responsible, but they didn't provide any economic benefit (savings in gas wouldn't cancel out the extra cost for the hybrid technology until like 150,000 miles) but gas is going to be $3/gallon pretty soon and hybrids are starting to look more and more attractive.

[ChadTower]

So far not much, but I'll be buying a car in the next 6 -10 months.

[SirPoonga]

I haven't done much, except get a new job 
I went from 50 miles one way to 5 miles one way!
But I also went from a 35mpg corolla to a 28mpg camry now
But it is summer, so most of the time you will find me on my 50mpg motorcycle.  The money I save on my bike with gas pays for insurance.  For me insurance is only about $115 a year.  That's one of the reasons I ride bike.  It's cheap and it's fun

I;ve looked at hybrids.  For what you get they are expensive, that kinda offsets the price you save on gas, so I don't think you really gain too much.  And the other problem with hybrids is the technology is still evolving so getting a used one compared to a new one can be a determining factor.

I can't wait until hydrogen cars are in the US.  That looks like a good viable solution.  hydrogen is readily available as it comes form water.  However, you need electricity and such to extract the hydrogen out.  But that should still use less natural gas and oil than what we are currently doing.

[shmokes]

There is a hybrid Accord now too, which gets raves compared with others.  Lexus has a hybrid SUV, and there's the Ford Escape.  Someone makes a hybrid truck -- I think it's even a full-size, but reviewers say it sucks.  The Lexus and the Honda Accord seem to be the best out there, but the Ford Escape and Prius and to a bit lesser extent the Honda Civic are pretty well reviewed.

[ChadTower]

The Accord is well over $20k and has a waiting list like getting season tickets to the Packers.

[tommy]

My Mustang is going to continue to eat up gas and i can't do anything about it, it's too damn fun to drive and i won't comprimise my joy of driving it for anything.

What can we really do, we are at the mercy of the man in charge.

[ChadTower]

No we're not... if the majority start making adjustments, culture shifts, and that is what forces real societal change.  That is what is going to force our country to become more energy independent, not some bill that will sit in congress for 8 years.

[TOK]

I have a company vehicle, which is fortunate. We were still able to drive about 1500 miles on vacation, so we're not hurting too much from it yet. What is going to hurt me regarding fuel prices is that I have oil heat and the oil price on my yearly contract has gone up from about $1.40 per gallon to about $2.20. This winter is going to be a chilly one! 

Comment on the hybrids: A couple things worry me about these cars. First, the technology is so new that I'd be nervous about having a problem that the dealership is unable to diagnose. The other thing is that along with the extra price of the vehicle causing it to take a long time to pay off in fuel savings, there is something nobody mentions... The batteries in these vehicles have a finite life, maybe 5 to 7 years. They are going to lose efficiency in the charge/discharge cycle, and when it finally comes time to replace them, the price is going to be huge. It's going to cost more, not less to operate a hybrid long term.
I think I'd stick to a 4 cylinder car with a manual transmission if I was that concerned with fuel prices.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, oil heat hurts.  My contract went from $1.45 to $1.99 and I think it may even expire before the winter hits this year.

[SirPoonga]

Yeah, it's a cultural thing.  The car companies have the technology to use less gas.  I believe Iceland is now all hydrogen cars, but they have a natrual resource of hydrogen with all the geysers.  But the technology is there, it's just convincing US manufacturers to start selling it.  They are still attached to gas in the US.  Part of it is how much it would cost to move away from gas int he US.  The US is large in square area.  To move the whole country to a new fuel is tough.  In order for it to take one would have to be able to travel around on that fuel and find a fuel station.  That's why you basically only see alternative fuel in the big cities.  Alot of people won't leave or travel.  But if you start getting out to lower population areas it isn't viable. 

I think the rising gas prices is good for the US.  We've been pretty dependant on high mpg cars and trucks.  most of us don't need that.  I understand muscle car guys, I'm  car guy, but I enjoy any car be it electric or gas.  They all have their good points.  I'd love an electric just for the torque.   Torque is what makes a car fun.  Horsepower is nice, but most of us don't get to take a car to a race track.  Torque is what you get to play with the most in the streets   But as prices are going up I think most americans are starting to relize they need to look elsewhere.  I know a couple of businesses that couldn't handle the rising prices, that in combination with the rising minimum wage.  Small business is having a tough time surviving these days, but that's a different story though.

I know some technology is in the making.  But hydrogen is here.  I know GM is waiting until they get their skateboard chasis concept down to 4 inches thick before they start producing that.  They are down to like 11".  But they have the technology.  I think with proper designing that could still be usable, even if they just make parts of it 1" thick and other parts thinner.
For those who don't know.  The "skateboard" is GM's hydrogen chasis.  They are going to try and make modular cars.  They have a working prototype with their 11" chasis.  But they want to make it alot thinner before production.  What I mean by modular is the chassis has everything to make the car move and run.  The prototype looks like a skateboard.  Steering is digital, practically everything is digital.  All GM would have to do to make a different car is put a new body on and program the computer for different characteristics.  Which could be interesting in the aftermarket world... make your chevy feel like a caddy.

Now, if you watch PBS and scientific american frontier they had a show on the future of cars.  Alot of this you won't see on the street for 10 years.  But you know they have started making cars that run off of solid hydrogen?  Actually, it's  asolid material that soaks up hydrogen like a sponge, but there is a process to get the hydrogen gas out.  They prototype for the technology is  just a large box int he back of a trunk.  But what the inventors are saying is you could put this material anywhere in the car, like the frame.  Giving you more room for other stuff.   And since it is solid it doesn't burn like hydrogen gas.

That's the other thing.  because of hindenburg (spellig?) people int he US are afraid of hydrogen.  But that episode of scientific american showed a hydrogen car is safer than a gasoline car.  When a gas car is in an accident the gas spills and spreads around the gar, so the whole car cna go up in flames.  While a hydrogen car the gas goes straight up since it is lighter than air.  It is more likely to not spread but just burn straight up.  Also the flames will not go into the tank as the presurized gas tends to leak faster than the flames burn.  unlike a gas engine where the flames could get into the tank.

I hope car companies in the US really start pushing towards hydrogen.  I think with the gas prices rising customers are going to start presuring them for a solution.

Have you notice all the small engine cars that have been introduced to the US recently.  Nothing new outside the US but it is newer here.  I think the big three have several 80-110hp small liter cars now.

[missioncontrol]

I havn't done much of anything different either.....

Have to go to work..... need gas to get there......

Can't really justify trading in the Bronco for a tiny tin can....

We still use the wife's wagon to run errands on the weekends...

[ChadTower]

That's the main problem we're going to face... the stupid people, the bad drivers, will still be driving a large SUV.  They will continue to collide with others, and if you're driving a smaller car, you're going to be killed. 

[TOK]

I read an article in a car magazine about hydrogen power. It was pretty indepth and didn't seem biased, but they mentioned the production of hyrdrogen for vehicle use consuming just as much, if not more raw materials as the production of gas.

I'm all for losing the dependence on Middle East oil, but I think the people touting hydrogen as "cleaner" than gasoline are misinformed.

I've read about GM's universal platform experiments. This type of thinking just about killed them in the 80's when every Buick, Chevy, Olds and Caddy looked pretty much the same. I think they are already relying on too much shared technology with the 3.8 V6. The publics cool reception to the "all new" Pontiac G6 and Buick Lacrosse should really hammer home that GM needs to diversify their vehicles, not consolidate them.

[TOK]

That's the main problem we're going to face... the stupid people, the bad drivers, will still be driving a large SUV.  They will continue to collide with others, and if you're driving a smaller car, you're going to be killed. 

There are people calling for major changes to the NHTSA tests for this reason. You see a lot of cars advertised with a 5 star (best) side impact rating in the US. That is because the test uses an impact point pretty low on the door, and doesn't factor a car being hit in the side by a large truck. When the tests were done at a height adjusted to the typical truck, the damage incurred would earn the typical 5 star car a 2 star side impact rating.

[ChadTower]

My wife, driving a very heavy Thunderbird, was hit on the driver's door exactly like that by a Pathfinder going 50.  Had she been driving my Civic she'd be dead.  As it is, the Thunderbird took the brunt but still crushed her between the center console and door.

[missioncontrol]

Can't really justify trading in the Bronco for a tiny tin can....

That's the main problem we're going to face... the stupid people, the bad drivers, will still be driving a large SUV. They will continue to collide with others, and if you're driving a smaller car, you're going to be killed.

I live way out in the boondocks and you'd be surprised how many times I come around a blind curve and have to swerve off the road because some idiot in a sports car is taking that curve over the speed limit and using most of my lane as he's heading towards me........

other reason I have a SUV: I hook up my tralier several times a month to haul various things.....

and yes I do use my 4wd quite often....

[ChadTower]

I live way out in the boondocks and you'd be surprised how many times I come around a blind curve and have to swerve off the road because some idiot in a sports car is taking that curve over the speed limit and using most of my lane as he's heading towards me........

Oh I believe it... and driving a Civic, several times a day I have to drive nearly into a tree on my way to work because someone in an SUV/pickup is taking a corner in the middle of the road and misses me by inches.  There are stupid people in any given car, but the ones driving a small car aren't going to kill as many people.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

If SUV's are outlawed, only outlaws will have SUV's!!!

[ChadTower]

That's a show truck, so odds are he'll keep it and just drive it less.

[missioncontrol]

There are stupid people in any given car, but the ones driving a small car aren't going to kill as many people.

Yes but I am not the one willing to take the risk of being killed by these people.....

So I'll drive my truck beacuse I feel it's safer and I usually don't complain about the gas prices......

[ChadTower]

It's a reasonable point of view, and exactly the one I had in mind when I brought the point up.  I don't see a valid argument to it.

[M3talhead]

Here in Belgium, gas is so damn expensive, every day I'm more and more pleased with my little 4cly S-10.

But thats another thing, cultural difference. In the states, you've got guys wanting to squeeze as much power and torque out of bigger engines. Over here, the equivelant of that is trying to see how many miles (km) you can go before your tank runs dry. I was talking to a couple car guys over here who have tricked out Vws, Skodas, Fiats, and Seats. One of the first things they asked was how many km I got out of a liter. I didnt have a freaking clue. I start mentioning getting more horsepower and torque, and they kind of got quiet, like "What the hell is the point in that?".

Speed cameras dont help either. For every cop you see cruising the streets of the US, you have 2 speed cameras.....and they dont sleep........ever.

[DarkKobold]

Speaking of gas prices... If you are wondering where the money is going, check this out...
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

[M3talhead]

Speaking of gas prices... If you are wondering where the money is going, check this out...
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

Thats insane......

[quarterback]

Speaking of gas prices... If you are wondering where the money is going, check this out...
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

Cool, they even used arcade carpeting in this room.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/images2/fancyhotel10.jpg

[missioncontrol]

wonder if it's hurricane proof

[monkeybomb]

Off topic, But Chad, How do you like the Elantra?  I bought a 2003 at the very end of the car year and got an incredible deal on mine.  I really love it.  It's secretly quick too.

[Shape D.]

I drive an SUV, and while I agree gas prices suck it depends on what kind of a vehicle you need. I've got two kids and I play in a band so I need something I can fit car seats and carry a bass rig and PA in. 19 MPG may suck but its worth it for the convenience of being able to do what I need to do with my vehicle.

[Frosty]

Random facts:

- In 1980, there were over 300 refineries in the United States; at the start of 2004, that number had dropped more than 50 percent to 149. In most cases, the companies said, the closed facilities weren't profitable.

- Exxon Mobil's $8.42 billion profit in the fourth quarter of 2004 was the 3rd largest quarterly profit ever recorded by a US company.

- Thanks to crude prices that averaged $41 a barrel in New York last year, the world's 10 biggest oil companies earned more than $100 billion in 2004, a windfall greater than the economic output of Malaysia. Together, their sales are expected to exceed $1 trillion for 2004, which is more than Canada's gross domestic product.

Where is that money going again?

[ChadTower]

Off topic, But Chad, How do you like the Elantra?

[fredster]

but gas is going to be $3/gallon pretty soon and hybrids are starting to look more and more attractive.

That's right.  That's where the new R&D money is going to go.  Some of them are pretty cool.  I think we should develop those cool cars like in I ROBOT.

[DrewKaree]

The Accord is well over $20k and has a waiting list like getting season tickets to the Packers.

You will never catch me putting my name on a 20 year waiting list for a CAR....but those Packer Season tickets are a different story!

As long as America wants things cheaply, there will be large vehicles around, and the price of gas will not be a factor.  Moving large quantities of things requires something that most likely won't get decent mileage or requires enough horesepower to move it that it won't be efficient. 

Until I stop taking a vacation I will require a large vehicle (truck or SUV) and after I'm too old to drive, I'll require one so I won't kill myself when I forget that red means stop

[paigeoliver]

What I do about high gas prices is simply drive my 110 mile per gallon motor scooter almost EVERYWHERE. I also have my old Suburban, which is only driven during rain, for long trips (where it gets 16.5 MPG as opposed to the 9ish it gets in town), and when I have to take passengers.

I actually stretched a tank of gas in the burb out for over 2 months before filling it again (note, I had a 1/3rd of a tank left when I filled it). It would have been even longer, but my scooter was down over a busy weekend that required me to do a ton of driving.

On most vehicles gas is only a small part of the operating cost, most people will spend much more on insurance, repairs, taxes, depreciation, replacement vehicles and other miscellania then they will on gas.

Lets say you have an older gashog vehicle worth around $2000.
Lets say it gets 18MPG and you drive 10,000 miles per year.

Lets say you sell it and buy something that gets 28MPG
 Cost for advert. $25
Sales tax $150
Inspection $30
Random repair needed to pass inspection $100 (90 percent of the private partie older vehicles I have bought have needed some random minor repair to pass inspection).
License plates $40
Miscellaneous vehicle change expenses (driving around to do it, washing the old car before you sell it, oops my old cupholder doesn't fit, gotta buy a new one). $20

Cost to switch vehicles (ASSUMING both cost equal insurance, which isn't always true, in recent memory I have owned a large V8, a medium V6, and a small 4, the small 4 had the highest insurance), is $365.

Ok, gas is $2 per gallon in this experiment. 10,000 miles will take 555 gallons in a year, at a cost of $1111 in the 18 MPG vehicle.

In the 28 MPG vehicle 10000 miles will take 357 gallons at a cost of $714

Difference in fuel prices for one year. $397

It takes an entire YEAR to get on top simply from switching from a low gas mileage vehicle to a decent one. And that is with a $2000 car, which might very well not last longer than a year or two.

So, lets do it with an $8000 car.
Cost of advert. $25
Sales tax. $600
Inspection. $30
No random repair on this one, we will assume it is OK 100 percent.
Plates. $40
Misc $20.
Cost to switch vehicles. $715. Also note that it will take you A LOT longer to sell an $8000 vehicle private party. If you do ANYTHING involving a dealership then add $1500 to your cost, as your trade in is gonna be at least $750 below private party value, and the dealership will certainly charge you at least $750 over private party value.

Ok, same gas prices, difference in fuel cost per year is $397. It will take you two years to come out ahead on a private party sale, if you trade it in then it will take you 6 years to come out on top. Will that car even RUN in six years?

Note, I did not even factor in repairs, depreciation, or anything like that, but in general the larger engined cars do tend to last a lot longer, especially with American models.

[Arcadiac]

Personally I bought a Mercury Villager (same as Nissan Quest).  Decent gas mileage, enough power to get on the X-way without getting killed and room enough behind the seats for my kid's electric wheelchair to fit.  I try to use my brain a bit more often, making stops en route to somewhere else instead of compulsively hopping in the van whenever I feel like it.

Some interesting info on hydrogen fuel and current feasability:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/hydrogen-economy.htm

This technology relies heavily on using electricity (produced mostly from oil or coal) to extract the hydrogen, thus rendering it impractical at this point in time. 

Keep in mind also that low-mileage SUV's fall into the category of heavy-duty vehicles, allowing them to bypass federal clean-air and fuel economy standards, even the gas-guzzler tax imposed on manufacturers of cars that get similar gas mileage. 

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml

Jon Stewart calls them "F-U-mobiles" 

ARCADIAC!

[paigeoliver]

Also I cannot say enough good things about how much money you CAN save by adding a small motor scooter (70-100cc, try to get a Honda, and avoid Chinese models that aren't copies of Honda models) to your vehicle stable.

Those small scooters get 80-120 miles per gallon, and the savings doesn't stop just with fuel. Everything on them is dirt cheap. I am dropping off my Suburban at the shop thursday for some front suspension work, this work (just under $500), is more expensive than the cost to replace the entire engine and transmission in one of the small scooters.

It does take about a year to get on top of the purchase price of a used (or new Chinese) model ($1000ish), but the used ones tend to have very low mileage (sub 5000 on average, sometimes under 1000), and you can expect 20,000 out of the engine. Then the engine can be rebuilt or replaced cheaply. All other repairs have tiny tiny costs, less than you spend on auto oil changes. Most of them take about a half quart in an oil change, so you are probably literally only gonna spend about $1.50 a year changing the oil on them.

[Bones]

There is a reasonable chance that if you choose to ride a motorbike or scooter to save money, it won't work in the long run.

All it takes is some retard to run into you and any petrol saving is offset by lost wages due to injury.

Do it because it's fun, not because it may appear to save you cash.

[paigeoliver]

I figure the fun part offsets the possible injury part.

Also, my personal commute is all on one road, that only has one lane in each direction, and doesn't really have a lot of places where people are turning on and off.