Biodiesel

[ChadTower]

Okay, with all of the fuel advantages, as well as a completely revitalized farming industry it would create, along with the fact that we wouldn't have to come up with entirely new automotive technologies to accomodate the fuel...

...why is biodiesel not being pushed harder by anyone?  What am I missing?

[monkeybomb]

...why is biodiesel not being pushed harder by anyone?  What am I missing?

The part where those in charge of fuel lose billions.  And the part where they bought the gov.

[IntruderAlert]

I wasn't really aware of it myself
here's the web site:
http://www.biodiesel.org/

there was also something on CNN today about hydrogen fuel cell cars by 2010.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/06/17/toyota_fuel_cell.reut/index.html

[ChadTower]

I wasn't really aware of it myself
here's the web site:
http://www.biodiesel.org/

there was also something on CNN today about hydrogen fuel cell cars by 2010.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/06/17/toyota_fuel_cell.reut/index.html

Yeah, though nothing about how much it will cost or how much the fuel will cost.

[monkeybomb]

The part where those in charge of fuel lose billions.  And the part where they bought the gov.

I'm not thinking about the gov't, I'm thinking about the lobbyists whose interests would benefit geometrically from major use of biodiesel.

Who are the lobbist going to convince?

[ErikRuud]

The Veggie Van

I read about this a few years ago, and I am surprised that it took thislong to surface as a national issue.

I am surprised the McDonald's isn't getting behind this.  Imagine how their sales would jump if everyone started driving cars that smelled like french fries! 

[ChadTower]

All they have to do is make it known

[Shape D.]

I think it all starts with the automotive industry. they would have to start creating diesel versions of vehicles. Then gas stations would have to make it availible.

I don't think anything will happen with bio diesel with our current government, espicially with our presidents alliances with the saudi government. I don't feel the have a great care for the environment. But biodiesel would have a huge impact on out economy. steadier work and crops for our nations farmers. processing jobs. not to mention we will be keeping money "in country" as opposed to sending it overseas to contries who don't have the greatest reputation.

[ChadTower]

Perhaps the biggest impact on our country would be no dependence on foreign oil.  That could change the politics of the entire world.

[Shape D.]

Perhaps the biggest impact on our country would be no dependence on foreign oil.  That could change the politics of the entire world.

Yes, yes it would. And I would love it.

[ChadTower]

Production of this stuff is so clean that the byproduct of converting beans/used vegetable oil into biodiesel is SOAP.

[monkeybomb]

Perhaps the biggest impact on our country would be no dependence on foreign oil.  That could change the politics of the entire world.

Yes, yes it would. And I would love it.

I would love that too!!


I think the goverment plays a big role in determining what can and can't be done.  A small example I know of is that where I live it is basically illegal to provide your own energy.  If you do you still have to pay for what you produce as if it were coming from the local energy supplier.  They reason they claim is that they are providing back up power so you still need them.  I don't remember the details of how this is done nationally but I think the role is substantial.  And I think enough money from the current holders of the liquid can prevent progress.  I hope I am wrong and the public would suddenly prove it, but I think we are stuck.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

...why is biodiesel not being pushed harder by anyone?  What am I missing?

Apparently, you missed the entire 2004 election. That was your chance. Biodiesel was an integral part of Kerry's energy plan.

Boston.Com Link

You really think anyone has a chance of pushing an alternative energy plan through this WH? I'm sure it'd make nice toilet paper for Bush and Co.

Who'd you vote for?

mrC

[ChadTower]

...why is biodiesel not being pushed harder by anyone?

[Shape D.]

That election was there for him to take and he didn't do it.

Agreed.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

That election was there for him to take and he didn't do it.

Right. The right wing media was so fair and honest in it's presentation of Kerry's campaign. *coff* Swift Vets *coff*

Anyhow, it's just more lame excuses from you on how he could have "won you over." You never intended on voting for him, so you are being disengenious at best. He had a plan, you didn't read his plan. It included funding for the development and promotion of Biodiesel technology. Did you need the media to force feed it to you? Maybe a "Kerry's Plan On Tape", so you could listen that while you do your pilates?

mrC

[ChadTower]

Anyhow, it's just more lame excuses from you on how he could have "won you over." You never intended on voting for him, so you are being disengenious at best. He had a plan, you didn't read his plan. It included funding for the development and promotion of Biodiesel technology. Did you need the media to force feed it to you? Maybe a "Kerry's Plan On Tape", so you could listen that while you do your pilates?

No, I wasn't going to vote for him, but I was hoping maybe he had a good plan.  If he had good plans and won, I would have been happy with that.  I was never going to vote for him because of his pathetic record representing Massachusetts.  He has done nothing for us and doesn't even bother to vote in most Senate roll calls.  If he can't provide for his state then he can't provide for his country.

I did read what he put out and it wasn't good.  It called for billions of dollars of funding for unspecified research into unspecified things by unspecified people.  The only thing that was specified was how he planned on raising the billions:  more taxes on already overtaxed Americans. 

This issue doesn't call for new taxes or billions of dollars of research.  It calls for some public education.  Put some commercials for it during American Idol and I bet half the country would know about it within a month.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

No, I wasn't going to vote for him, but I was hoping maybe he had a good plan.

[Dartful Dodger]

you are completely missing the fact that the current administration is made up almost entirely of oil barons and their cronies and we will *not* see effective legislation on alternative energy passed until they are replaced by a group less beholden to the oil companies.

MrC will not be using alternative energy choices until the USA has an administration that will force him to use it.

If the rest of you want the car companies to build alternative energy cars, then start buying alternative energy cars.  At one time the Blazer and Bronco were the only SUVs.  Now even Porsche makes one.

[abrannan]

Back to Biodiesel (Put down your tin-foil hats, folks)...

THe prmary problem isn't "the man" keeping you down.  The primary problem is one of scale.  BD is great for recycling already "used" veg oil, but at scale, it doesn't pan out.  It takes more energy to produce a gallon of vegetable oil than you get from a gallon of BD (56 lbs of corn for 1.5 lbs of corn oil, find me a system to grow, harvest and refine 56lbs of corn that uses less than 1.5 gallons of diesel fuel).  Let's assume that each past food restaurant disposes of 300 gallons of cooking oil a month, at a 20 gallon tank of fuel that lasts about a week (averages pulled out of thin air, but bear with me), each restaurant can support about 3.5 cars.  Imagine if each gas station could only support 3.5 cars a month. 

Where BD can come in handy is as a recycling method to produce a little excess energy for the restaurant.  Put that 300 gallons through a diesel generator, and you reduce the energy consumption of the resturant, reducing fuel used to haul away used oil, reducing coal burned at the power plant, etc.  Not enough to power the restaurant, but enough of a profitable position that it should be looked at for all new construction, IMO. 

Using this combined with other recycling processes (Thermal de-polymerization ( http://www.changingworldtech.com )) to produce oil can start to put a dent in foreign dependence, but it will never produce enough economically to support the current demand. 

[fredster]

SWIFT VETS WON

Hey, you know MrC, Kerry is in the Senate isn't he?

[tommy]

SWIFT VETS WON

Hey, you know MrC, Kerry is in the Senate isn't he?

[monkeybomb]

He won't be president so he dosen't care, he's waiting for the next election year to impliment his ideas.

So true of all politicians.

[quarterback]

http://www.veggievan.org/veggievan/

Josh Tickell is a friend of a friend of mine.  Biodeisel is the the most reasonable alternative fuel source I've heard of.  You don't need to invent some entirely new form of transportation to use it and the U.S. grows corn corn corn.

I'm perpetually amazed that it hasn't gotten mainstream attention.  It's been around for years and years. There are laws preventing more than a certain (very low) percentage of it being included at existing deisel pumps, but I honestly believe that biodeisel has the potential to completely change the world in a number of ways.

...why is biodiesel not being pushed harder by anyone?  What am I missing?

Dennis Kucinich pushed it and even had (or had plans for?) running his campaign bus on the stuff.  He was mocked relentlessly for the idea.  "that crazy hippie nut job Dennis wants to run his bus on corn?  [bwahahahahahhh!!!] Cuckoo-cuckoo-cuckoo"

Big US businesses doesn't move on big changes unless pushed and they're usually only "pushed" by lawsuits or foreign competition that threatens to completely put them out of business.   My guess  is that Japan will have to start growing lots of corn for them to become interested enough to make the US take notice.

Who knows if biodeisel will ever take off.  But I, for one, wish it would.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

MrC will not be using alternative energy choices until the USA has an administration that will force him to use it.

Hey genius, I use mass transportation. I moved to a city with public transportation for a reason. When I can't use that, I carpool.

I currently don't have a car. I guess it's no suprise that you, once again, have no idea what the hell you're talking about.


mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

SWIFT VETS WON

Now hopefully they can go on dying...bitter, old traitors.

Hey, you know MrC, Kerry is in the Senate isn't he?  Why doesn't he introduce his "plan" to the Senate and integrate it into an energy bill?

Last time I checked, any Senator can introduce legislation....

Maybe he's smart enough to pick his battles, maybe he truly doesn't care. I don't know. All I know is that he had presented a plan. Those who said he hadn't are lying.

Anyhow, last time I checked your moron-in-chief wasn't doing anything about it either...in fact, one of his aides in the administration has just recently doctored a scientific report on greenhouse gases. I guess lying to the American public is part of Bush's "plan" then, eh?

At least he could say "I tried".  He could show us all he still cared and wanted to work for us.

Lord knows you really care about having a president that actually works for *you* on this matter....as opposed to the oil companies.



mrC

[Dartful Dodger]

MrC will not be using alternative energy choices until the USA has an administration that will force him to use it.

Hey genius, I use mass transportation. I moved to a city with public transportation for a reason. When I can't use that, I carpool.

I currently don't have a car. I guess it's no suprise that you, once again, have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Hey genius, where in your gibberish do you state you're using alternative energy choices?

Once again, I have no interest in what the hell you're talking about.

[grueinthebox]

Back on topic, I was amazed to see that Trucks! show on Spike TV ran an episode last weekend entirely focused on Biodiesel.  The host went through the whole process of "homebrewing" a batch of fuel, then they ran it in a lightly modified late model Dodge truck and gave it a favorable review.

That show may not qualify as "mainstream", but it's getting closer.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Once again, I have no interest in what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Dartful Dodger]

Back off topic, my 67 Dodge Dart runs on an alternative energy choice.

LEADED!!!

[SirPeale]

WVO is a great solution for a couple people, but I read of a better solution:

Slashdot.Org Link

Using this technology you could dump in pretty much any organic waste and come out with usable fuel.

[ChadTower]

The difference between that and biodiesel, though, is that biodiesel is researched, developed, is up to federal standards for usable fuels, and works with existing technology.

It was said that taking it from corn requires too much energy to be worth it... how about taking it from soy?  Same issues?

It was an interesting point brought up that Kerry could introduce his energy plan to the Senate but has not... he'd have to actually be there to do that, and if one reviews his voting record, showing up is not his strong suit and it has never been.

[DrewKaree]

From what I understand, using biodiesel still requires the use of regular diesel or a mixture with regular diesel because it's too thick or something.  Prolly one of many reasons given as to why this isn't feasible large-scale.


I like how the current administration is in bed with oil barons and stepping all over the little guys to keep their power or whatever else you think, MrC, but then you turn around and tell us Kerry is either smart enough to pick his battles OR maybe he truly doesn't care.  In the end, when all is said and done, the plan you tout isn't, hasn't, and more than likely won't be put into effect.  Sounds like Kerry decided to take his big red ball and go home and pout like a little girl.

Either way, YOU have no reason to complain about the lack of alternative energy plans since your anti-fossil fuel candidate doesn't have the cojones to actually do something OTHER than complain like you are doing about what's going on currently.  The difference between Kerry and yourself, as Fredster pointed out to you and you deftly sidestepped, is that Kerry can actually DO something about this, and refuses to.  Maybe your energy would be better spent holding Kerry's feet to the fire and asking him why he doesn't have the guts to do something about this issue.  As Chad pointed out to us (and I have a feeling it's the reason you know nothing will happen) Kerry's sold out your state time and again.  The guy can't even be bothered to show up to vote even half the time, KNOWING he was gonna be running for President.

Let us know when Kerry authors, co-authors, or even puts his name down as supporting a bill like this, since he obviously was the candidate who was going to DO something to fix the country   Maybe you can help Kerry see the way wind farms will help us all.  Demonstrate it for him.  Blow.  Hard.

[quarterback]

From what I understand, using biodiesel still requires the use of regular diesel or a mixture with regular diesel because it's too thick or something.

[TOK]

I notice the proponents of this chose to skip right over abranans comments up there. The problem with all of the alternative forms of energy is that they don't really conserve anything, they just move the pollution/consumtion of energy to create them to another part of the manufacturing cycle. Electric, hydrogen, and biodiesel all seem to get their shortcomings overlooked by the hopeful.

It would be awesome to lose the dependence on Middle East oil. The sure way to watch that hellhole fall apart would be having them lose our oil money.

[ChadTower]

I notice the proponents of this chose to skip right over abranans comments up there. The problem with all of the alternative forms of energy is that they don't really conserve anything, they just move the pollution/consumtion of energy to create them to another part of the manufacturing cycle.

I didn't ignore it, I addressed it specifically and asked a question about it.  And there is no pollution in the processing of vegeteble oil into biodiesel; the byproduct is glycerin, the main ingredient in soap.  What is cleaner than soap?

[quarterback]

And there's already a whole bunch of leftover cooking oil that is being disposed of as 'toxic waste'

And I don't even know that the assertion is actually true, particularly in the long run.

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying that I do not know what the cost is to produce 1 gallon of corn oil.

[danny_galaga]

bio diesel in australia is mostly used by hippies who make their own from waste cooking oil. it certainly has promise as pure bio- diesel directly replaces diesel, no change to the engine needed (and apparently rudoplh diesel, the inventor of the engine used vegetable oil, not petroleum oil). i have wondered though about the ingredients used to make it. i havent had a chance to look into it. one of them is lye. where does that come from? because if important ingredients used are based on mineral oil then theres not much point in the long run. instead, engines running on straight vegetable oils might be better.

 

[quarterback]

As a follow up to the cost issue.

[Crazy Cooter]

For all you treehuggin' nutjobs.

Willie Nelson Biodiesel Company:
http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/
Stores in Texas and South Carolina.

Generally speaking, biodiesel is available in quite few spots:
http://biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/distributors/default.shtm