UPDATE: Schiavo Autopsy Released.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159606,00.html
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050615/ap_on_re_us/schiavo_autopsy_12
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/06/15/national/a081754D67.DTL

Schiavo Autopsy shows Terry was indeed consistent with a PVS, half her brain simply gone, no consciouness, blind, irreparably brain damaged, unable to orally drink or eat, no chance of even modest improvement, ever, and there is no evidence whatsoever of foul play. I'll have a link and medical comments soon.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. ... This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

"Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack."

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin says her brain was "profoundly atrophied" - and that the damage was "irreversable." He also says, "The vision centers of her brain were dead" - meaning she was blind.

MICHAEL SCHIAVO WINS!!!!  (EDIT: /sarcasm)


mrC

[ChadTower]

Both parties were right in their own perspective.  The husband wanted what Terry told him she wanted, he was protecting her rights as an individual.  The parents wanted to protect their child, their eternal responsibility.

Neither side was wrong, they just had roles with conflicting responsibilities.

It is good, however, to prove that he did not CAUSE her condition.  Now maybe more people will believe his sincerity.

[Shape D.]

MICHAEL SCHIAVO WINS!!!!

I don't know if I would consider having your wife turn into a vegitable, and having to take her off life support winning.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Neither side was wrong, they just had roles with conflicting responsibilities.

Sorry. The parents, and all their supporters were wrong. She was a living corpse and they wanted to help her continue to suffer. They refused to believe the countless doctors, judges, and experts that correctly diagnosed her condition. They attacked her husband, and helped manipulate this issue into a political nightmare. These medical results clearly point out she needed to be let go. Their refusal to do so is nothing short of morbid desperation. Their handling of this situation is nothing short of abuse and recklessly irresponsible behavior. (They should be repeatedly tasered!!)

It is good, however, to prove that he did not CAUSE her condition.  Now maybe more people will believe his sincerity.

You kidding? He should sue their damn asses off. Hannity, Frist, et al. called him an abuser, a murderer, etc...never in my life have I seen a private citizen slandered so badly in public.

[ChadTower]

I know this sounds patronizing but I'm going to say it anyway:
 
If you become a parent, you'll understand why they were willing to hold out hope in the face of a world of experts telling them their little girl was gone.

[DarkKobold]

Sorry. The parents, and all their supporters were wrong. She was a living corpse and they wanted to help her continue to suffer.

Actually, with that much brain damage, she wasn't really suffering. She was dead. It just took the world a while to figure it out.

[Dartful Dodger]

MICHAEL SCHIAVO WINS!!!!

I don't know if I would consider having your wife turn into a vegitable, and having to take her off life support winning.

If you were rooting for a woman to starve to death you'd consider it winning.

The people who think they know when it's okay to let someone they know nothing about die, don't know when it's okay to let a topic they know nothing about die.

I have not seen any brain activity in this topic, but since some of you have faith that there could be a chance someone might say something intelligent, I will not try to stop the ones who love talking about this, keep this thread alive.

[RayB]

Just watch, the parents will put their own spin on this. You know, glass half full versus half empty... ("brain was half full, not half empty!")

They (the parents) are living in their own little bubble. I saw video of them "meeting" the new pope. Basically it was a throng of people, they managed to get up front, and the mother kept shoving a photo of Terry at the pope over and over. AS IF HE CARES. One of the pope's entourage finally took the picture frame.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

As one of her parents, I may have let her go, but I clearly understand how they could want to hold onto hope after there is no rational justification of it.

It's one of those few things that you have to experience to truly understand.

I've been there. I've made that decision.

The husbands motives are now crystal clear. The families motives are still questionable, so let's not assume they did it all for "love". Even were it true, there is still no justification for how badly they used their media pulpit to vilify Michael Schiavo, and it provides no excuse for those craven politicians who used the families story for their own twisted gain.


mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

If you were rooting for a woman to starve to death you'd consider it winning.

The people who think they know when it's okay to let someone they know nothing about die, don't know when it's okay to let a topic they know nothing about die.

DD, keep up the fight. Don't let the science get in the way of your own personal crusade against the facts.

[DarkKobold]

Not taking either side of this arguement, I'd like to put this out.

This is not the last we've seen of these cases. In fact, this could become the new fight of the 21st century. Now, let me talk like a moronic futurologist. As medicine and technology improve, it will become easier and possible to keep people "alive" indefinately. Just as the debate of abortion rages on, as to when life begins, I think the line at which it ends will be much grayer.
Think about two terms. "Legal Death" and "Total Death." For Legal Death, the heart stops. Everyone knows that people are brought back from Legal Death every day. Total Death is when the doctor has found that zero brain activity is occuring. It may be some day possible to bring people back from that state of death. Then where do we draw the line?

Just some points to reflect on. Maybe take this thread in a new direction: Where do you personally think life begins and ends?

[ChadTower]

Where do you personally think life begins and ends?

At a good BBQ joint.

[GGKoul]

You can read the complete Autopsy report here

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0615051terri1.html

[Chris]

Think about two terms. "Legal Death" and "Total Death." For Legal Death, the heart stops. Everyone knows that people are brought back from Legal Death every day. Total Death is when the doctor has found that zero brain activity is occuring. It may be some day possible to bring people back from that state of death. Then where do we draw the line?

Just some points to reflect on. Maybe take this thread in a new direction: Where do you personally think life begins and ends?

There was a short story kind of like this in Playboy back in the 70's; I wish I could find it again.  We had gotten to the point where we could conquer anything health related.  So when did society decide that you died?  When you ran out of money.

Wish I could find that story again...

Yes, this is completely off-topic.

Back on topic...

There are, of course, no winners in this whole affair, and I think the spin cycle will go into overdrive with this news.  I can't blame the parents for holding out hope till the bitter end, but I do blame them for the complete villification of the husband.  As far as what we would do in the same situation?  I fervently hope none of us ever find out.

--Chris

[fredster]

Who lost the most was the Doctor who had to pay 1 million $$$ for the malpractice suit.

There was a short story kind of like this in Playboy back in the 70's; I wish I could find it again.

[Chris]

There was a short story kind of like this in Playboy back in the 70's; I wish I could find it again.

[Chris]

Good lead!  I found the story right away.  http://pjb.hopto.org/creators/Time%20is%20money.html

WARNING: The linked site includes a scan of the cover of the Playboy issue this was printed in, which includes nudity.

[ChadTower]

Who lost the most was the Doctor who had to pay 1 million $$$ for the malpractice suit.

I doubt he had to pay much, really.  That's what malpractice insurance is for and they pay through the nose for it.

[DrewKaree]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44827

I'll always wonder how a husband finds out his wife has broken bones while in the care of a nursing home, and has absolutely no interest in finding out how it happened or who might have done this to his wife.  I find it hard to classify that, as well as some of the other things he's done OTHER than removing the tube, as evidence of his "love" for his wife. 

All that's left to determine is if her family is as big a group of turds as Schiavo is (at least according to our predictions here)

[ChadTower]

Someone who has been in bed for years will get those injuries from time to time... someone tries to help them out of bed to change the sheets, they do something weird and fall down.  Boom, broken foot, their bones are that brittle.

[shmokes]

Jeb Bush is asking state prosecutors to open an investigation into Michael Shiavo for an apparent time discrepancy.  Schiavo recounted the initial incident on Larry King in 2003 saying that he woke up when he heard his wife fall and at about 4:30 in the morning.  The official records show that the 911 call was placed at 5:40 a.m.

What is wrong with the Bush family?

[ChadTower]

Lack of accountability.

Jeb Bush will end up President one day, watch.

[JCL]

It appears that retribution is very important to the Bush "Family".

[ChadTower]

They're Texans, it is to be expected.

[shadowdrak]

The autopsy said the broken bones were caused by "prolonged immobility induced osteoporosis and complicating H.O.[heterotopic ossification] in an environment of intense physical therapy." i.e. her bones were weak and there was abnormal bone growth.

[danny_galaga]

STOP THE PRESS:

"SCHIAVO BRAIN SCAN MIXED UP WITH DUBYA'S"

if thats in bad taste, please strike this from the record 

[btoddkelley]

Almost half the US population is missing half a brain. They are called liberals!


Todd

[Tiger-Heli]

The autopsy said the broken bones were caused by "prolonged immobility induced osteoporosis and complicating H.O.[heterotopic ossification] in an environment of intense physical therapy." i.e. her bones were weak and there was abnormal bone growth.

Doesn't the autopsy report of "an environment of intense physical therapy" conflict with other media reports that Michael wouldn't allow nurses to help Terri hold a washcloth as that could be considered "therapy"?  (or did that happen after the broken bones part?)

[ChadTower]

Doesn't the autopsy report of "an environment of intense physical therapy" conflict with other media reports that Michael wouldn't allow nurses to help Terri hold a washcloth as that could be considered "therapy"?

[fredster]

Jeb Bush is asking state prosecutors to open an investigation into Michael Shiavo for an apparent time discrepancy.  Schiavo recounted the initial incident on Larry King in 2003 saying that he woke up when he heard his wife fall and at about 4:30 in the morning.  The official records show that the 911 call was placed at 5:40 a.m.

What is wrong with the Bush family?

I agree.  I have no idea what Jeb is trying to do here. There's really no point.

Jeb won't force a proscuter to look into the involvement of those three people and that poor girl barried alive after she was raped repeatedly in a closet.  Yet he wants to look into a cold case explored by 15 freaking courts over what 15 years?

It's pointless and useless.

[JCL]

I agree.

[Dartful Dodger]

It's simple. This is revenge since the Bushies didn't get what they wanted. That's how they do things in that "Family".

It's an American thing.  Like the dems not seeing President Bush Jr. as one of the best presidents, just because he beat Gore.

[ChadTower]

Anyone with more personality than bedrock could have beaten Gore.  In this age of sound bites and video highlights, Bill Clinton is the archetypical Presidential candidate.

That is enough to make a man cry.

[JCL]

It's simple. This is revenge since the Bushies didn't get what they wanted. That's how they do things in that "Family".

It's an American thing.

[ChadTower]

Best is relative, really.  He has been the best available candidate.  No one capable of performing the duties well is dumb enough to want the job and the scrutiny that accompanies it... that is what our country has become.

[Chris]

Best is relative, really.

[Shape D.]

Almost half the US population is missing half a brain. They are called liberals!


Todd

Nice unbiased comment. Have you read the rules for these forums at all.

you're sounding like a <mean person>.

[ChadTower]

If being completely unbiased is part of the rules, we all need to leave before we are ejected.

[Chris]

I'm still trying to figure out what a jag is.

[Shape D.]

I meant the part where we're supposed to be nice to eachother.

saying leberals have half a brain isn't really being "nice" to the liberal population of this board. And it sounds like an overly ignorant statement.

I'm still trying to figure out what a jag is.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jag&r=f

I used it in the context of deffinition # 5. I however changed it to try and be a nicer person.