Freedom Fries Flip Flop

[mr.Curmudgeon]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1491463,00.html

[ChadTower]

It IS possible for a man to change his mind as events happen and the world evolves.  That's not a flip flop.  A flip flop is doing it back and forth 4 times in 2 weeks.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

It's great that he's changed his mind. I always thought he was wrong, and I'm glad he agrees with me...finally.

Too bad 1,500+ boys/girls had to die, and he chose to make Americans look like asses before realizing it, but I commend him.

Too bad Chad...it's a "flip-flop." Just ask a Bush supporter, they're "fonda" pointing them out.. Har Har Har.

[ChadTower]

Dude wanted to change the name of a fried potato and you tie him to Jane Fonda and 1500 American deaths.  That's a long stretch.

[fredster]

Roe changed her mind too after that supreme court battle didn't she?

Linda Lovelace did too apparently.

[monkeybomb]

Mr C

it's not a "flip flop" if he's a guy in your favorite sports team political party.  Tha's for the other team.

[ChadTower]

Even the term flip flop connotes more than one changing of the mind.  Without going back, it's just a flip or a flop.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

So he flipped his mind....I'd agree with that.   

Dude wanted to change the name of a fried potato and you tie him to Jane Fonda and 1500 American deaths.  That's a long stretch.

Uh, he also sanctioned a war that he now doesn't agree with. As a congressmen, who actually VOTED for the war, shouldn't he be held just a tiny-bit responsible for sending 1,500+ kids to their deaths for a war he NOW doesn't agree with???

The "fonda" remark is a reference to the righties who won't forgive her for her actions during Vietnam, even though she has recently apologized. They have called her recent change of heart a 'flip-flop' since they look tying her and that word to Kerry. Don't you get it? Har har har...

[ChadTower]

So he flipped his mind....I'd agree with that.

[GGKoul]

I thought they were America Fries now...

[ChadTower]

I thought they were America Fries now...

Ah, in that case, Obese But We're Not Responsible For It Fries.

[danny_galaga]

he is a good man (for a polititian) for admitting he was wrong.

for anyone who isnt american, that was the funniest, dopiest name change we'd ever heard of. caused us no end of amusement! how embarrassing. i hadn't even heard of freedom toast until just now . next time i get lucky in a nightclub ill be sure to freedom kiss her and of course use protection- a freedom letter (",)

all that aside, whats THIS about?:

"But the name change, STILL IN FORCE, made headlines around the world, both for what it said about US-French relations and its pettiness. "

what do they mean its 'still in force' ? i'm hoping its not illegal to call them french fries...

[shmokes]

Not a flip flop?  We're talking about french toast here.  Common....it's made with a spatula.

[Tailgunner]

The "fonda" remark is a reference to the righties who won't forgive her for her actions during Vietnam, even though she has recently apologized. They have called her recent change of heart a 'flip-flop' since they look tying her and that word to Kerry. Don't you get it? Har har har...

I'd forgive Slick Willie before I forgave Hanoi Jane. She's a traitor and should've been hung as such.

[crashwg]

Anyone see the epsiode of American Dad where the wife says "How's your French toast honey?" and he responds with "Smelly and ungrateful. But this American toast is great!"

Carry on.

[shmokes]

The "fonda" remark is a reference to the righties who won't forgive her for her actions during Vietnam, even though she has recently apologized. They have called her recent change of heart a 'flip-flop' since they look tying her and that word to Kerry. Don't you get it? Har har har...

I'd forgive Slick Willie before I forgave Hanoi Jane. She's a traitor and should've been hung as such.

Haven't you ever seen On Golden Pond?  It's so good.

[ChadTower]

The "fonda" remark is a reference to the righties who won't forgive her for her actions during Vietnam, even though she has recently apologized. They have called her recent change of heart a 'flip-flop' since they look tying her and that word to Kerry. Don't you get it? Har har har...

Members of my family were dying in a jungle thousands of miles from home while she was sitting on a tank entertaining the military that killed them.  She deserves a traitor's execution and quite frankly I'm surprised no veteran has ever provided it on his own.  She is the lowest of scum.  There is no American politician anywhere near her level of filth.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Members of my family were dying in a jungle thousands of miles from home while she was sitting on a tank entertaining the military that killed them.  She deserves a traitor's execution and quite frankly I'm surprised no veteran has ever provided it on his own.  She is the lowest of scum.  There is no American politician anywhere near her level of filth.

uh...maybe the politicians that sent them there to die in the jungle in the first place? Just a suggestion. All this anger at Jane Fonda is so misguided and silly. Really. Just makes people look like nutballs.

mrC

[ChadTower]

uh...maybe the politicians that sent them there to die in the jungle in the first place? Just a suggestion. All this anger at Jane Fonda is so misguided and silly. Really. Just makes people look like nutballs.

I see a major difference between a politician doing, whether it is actually wrong or right, what they think is necessary and a famous child of privilege providing USO-like services for the enemy.

[Dexter]

She deserves a traitor's execution....

ROTFLMAO Way to go Saddam!! Quick, phone the UN, Jane Fonda needs to be freed from tyranny(tm) and terror (c).

Hmm thought only dictatorships killed people that speak out against them, unless of course you're an al-jazeera reporter that is.

[Stingray]

for anyone who isnt american, that was the funniest, dopiest name change we'd ever heard of.

A huge number of Americans took it the same way.

-S

[ChadTower]

Hmm thought only dictatorships killed people that speak out against them, unless of course you're an al-jazeera reporter that is.

There is a legal difference between speaking out aganist the gov't and providing services to the enemy during a time of war.  She was dangerously close to being indicted at the time and many believe she should have been.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I see a major difference between a politician doing, whether it is actually wrong or right, what they think is necessary and a famous child of privilege providing USO-like services for the enemy.

I'm sure you do. It just doesn't make sense to me that you'd hold more anger for someone who misjudged the effects of their behavior *during* an atrociously wrong-headed war, than you would for someone who misjudged the effects of their decision to actually *start* an atrociously wrong-headed war.

I don't know if it's an aversion to holding authority figures to account, or if it's a class warfare thing...either way, I just find people who feel the need to rail against Fonda to be seriously unfocused and out-of-touch with their anger. There is certainly enough to be angry about, but I seriously doubt Fonda's behavior had absolutely any real effect on the outcome, and/or execution of the war. She has become nothing more than a sorry scapegoat for America's failings. Much like the "spitting of the soldiers" myth successfully drowned out war detractors, she provides a psychological outlet for people like yourself to comfortably vent their frustrations. I mean, who'd feel sorry for a privileged little rich girl? Right?

I've got plenty of family that served, with an extremely messed up uncle to boot...and none of them believes she had anything to do with their suffering. But, whatever, to each their own. It's harder to admit mistakes were made than it is to just blame somebody else for them.



mrC

[ChadTower]

Much like the "spitting of the soldiers" myth successfully drowned out war detractors...

It's nice that people can write things like this, but I know people who say they were spat on when they returned.  Yelled at, spat on, called babykillers and murderers in their own towns.  It is not a myth. 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Much like the "spitting of the soldiers" myth successfully drowned out war detractors...

It's nice that people can write things like this, but I know people who say they were spat on when they returned.  Yelled at, spat on, called babykillers and murderers in their own towns.  It is not a myth. 

I still don't think it shows a widespread epidemic of troop mistreatment. Certainly there was hostility toward Vietnam Vets when they returned, as that whole atrocious war was a HUGELY traumatic experience for this country, but it doesn't simply erase the validity of opposition to the war. To me, the anti-war anger directed at the troops was as misguided as peoples anger towards an arrogant, ignorant movie starlet. It demonstrates to me exactly why war should be a last option, avoided until absolutely necessary; the psychological damage done to both those who fight it and those here at home is incalcuable and manifests itself in so many unheathly, mirade ways.

Too bad it doesn't seem like we actually grew up and learned from the mistakes made during the Vietnam era. We're going to have hundreds of thousands of messed up kids coming back from Iraq, raising messed up families themselves, for years to come. I can only guess at who the next "Fonda" is, to be blamed for all this administration's mistakes.


mrC

[fredster]

next time i get lucky in a nightclub ill be sure to freedom kiss her and of course use protection- a freedom letter (",)

That could well be a long time Danny with your luck  . 

This man has a perfect right to change his mind I guess.  I thought this name change was a petty thing to do at the time, and still do.

[danny_galaga]

Members of my family were dying in a jungle thousands of miles from home while she was sitting on a tank entertaining the military that killed them.

[saint]

My dad, who is a vietnam veteran, will never forgive her. Myself, I see a difference between being stupid and being evil. What she did was incredibly stupid I think. I don't know that it was evil. It very well may have been, she may have deliberately decided to succor the enemy -- but I find it just as likely that it was a stupid and misguided attempt to protest the war. It is possible to love your country while disagreeing with its actions.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Hmm i come to the Fries Flip Flop thred and the ad at the top is flip flop socks 

Sorry just had to mention it 

[ChadTower]

unless you are implying that an american life is worth more than a vietnamese life?

I absolutely, unequivocally, unambiguously believe that it is.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

unless you are implying that an american life is worth more than a vietnamese life?

I absolutely, unequivocally, unambiguously believe that it is.

This absolutely, unequivocally, unamibguously puts your mindset into complete perspective and it goes a long way to explaining exactly how you come to the conclusions you come to about so many other politically oriented topics.

What, exactly, leads you to such a conclusion? I'm very curious how you can justify such a statement.


mrC

[Grasshopper]

The "fonda" remark is a reference to the righties who won't forgive her for her actions during Vietnam, even though she has recently apologized. They have called her recent change of heart a 'flip-flop' since they look tying her and that word to Kerry. Don't you get it? Har har har...

Members of my family were dying in a jungle thousands of miles from home while she was sitting on a tank entertaining the military that killed them.  She deserves a traitor's execution and quite frankly I'm surprised no veteran has ever provided it on his own.  She is the lowest of scum.  There is no American politician anywhere near her level of filth.

Wow, that's scary.

Anyone would think from your remarks that Jane Fonda had actually joined the Viet Cong and killed American troops herself. She was only a peace protester. In fact she was trying to prevent deaths on both sides. Yes, perhaps she could have gone about it more sensitively but she never actually killed anyone.

And why on earth should she regard the Vietnamese as 'the enemy'? If my government started an unnecessary war against a bunch of people I had no beef with, they wouldn't automatically become my enemy. I won't allow my government to determine who my friends and enemies are. I'd rather be guided by logic and my own conscience instead of blind patriotism.

[Grasshopper]

unless you are implying that an american life is worth more than a vietnamese life?

I absolutely, unequivocally, unambiguously believe that it is.

That's even more scary.

I hope you wrote that in a fit of anger, and that upon reflection you'll reconsider what you wrote.

Your comment is utterly unacceptable and borders on racism.

[Grasshopper]

i find it funny that as an atheist i seem to value life more than some so-called Christians (not necessarily referring to anyone here, just that the US is a heavily 'christian' country)

Actually there is a certain logic to that.

Most atheists don't believe in an afterlife, or at least think it's unlikely. So from our perspective the 70 odd years we have on earth is all we've got existence wise and thus very precious.

However, most religious people believe that our earthly life is a mere blip before we spend an eternity in heaven or hell. Why worry if your (or someone else's) blip is a bit shorter than planned if you're going to spend an eternity in heaven anyway (assuming of course you've followed your religion's rules)?

[ChadTower]

Your comment is utterly unacceptable and borders on racism.

Look up the difference between racism and prejudice.

It has nothing to do with race.  I have no issues with US Citizens of Vietnamese descent.  Americans are more valuable to me, plain and simple.  I am not saying they are better than others, but they hold more value to me because I am one of them.  When someone has to go, and the choices are US Citizens and nonUS Citizens, the US Citizens are more important to me.

You guys can draw this up as me being xenophobic, or racist, or anything else.  I don't care.  It comes down to simple priorities and these are mine.

Of course, I also think we should close off our borders and leave the rest of the world to itself.  If we did that, my opinion would not conflict with anything.

[shmokes]

Chad,

I know that your family fought in Vietnam and Charlie was constantly trying to (and perhaps succeeding, maybe) but a bullet in them, but wtf?  Have  a little perspective.  We were invading their country.  Don't you think if you were in the armed forces like your family was that if a country invaded America you would be fighting the soldiers of that country? 

Now....cut me some slack, perhaps your reason for assigning a greater value to American lives than Vietnamese has nothing to do with your family's experience in the war.  I'm taking a guess.  But if it does and the Vietnamese were simply doing what you would do, or what you would expect any respectable American to do in the same situation, you have some serious inconsistency issues with your reasoning.

[shmokes]

Heh....your last post suggests that my guess was a little off.

Closing up our borders won't work if we want to maintain the luxurious lifestyle we've got going on.  Americans import pretty much all of our textiles because Americans don't want to do crappy work and they don't want to pay people minimum wage to do the crappy work for us. 

and so on....i'm tired

[ChadTower]

Heh....your last post suggests that my guess was a little off.

Closing up our borders won't work if we want to maintain the luxurious lifestyle we've got going on.  Americans import pretty much all of our textiles because Americans don't want to do crappy work and they don't want to pay people minimum wage to do the crappy work for us. 

and so on....i'm tired

I didn't say closing them off to trade.  I mean closing them off to illegal immigration, to the people who come here and never work (even legally).  I want to go back to the days where one came here to contribute to America instead of benefit from America.  Unfortunately, the "American Dream" of coming here and making something of oneself has been supplanted by one of individual selfishness.

I also mean taking all of our troops home, letting the world police itself, and pulling back 95% of foreign aid.  We shouldn't be paying for the rest of the world any more than we should be telling it what it can and cannot do.

[Dexter]

unless you are implying that an american life is worth more than a vietnamese life?

I absolutely, unequivocally, unambiguously believe that it is.

Oh dear. I suppose I should admire your honesty, but admiration is the last thing you will be getting from me on ANY level. But I don't suppose that matters as I am, after all, not american, and as such a second class human being. 

[ChadTower]

But I don't suppose that matters as I am, after all, not american, and as such a second class human being. 

Try thinking in logic chains of more than one link.  You'd probably be surprised what happens when you sit and think about something for a half hour rather than making a quick assumption based on your initial inference.