Mixing Acetone with gasoline for better fuel economy

[DrewKaree]

Has anyone else ever heard of this?  I've never heard of it, ever.

Check it out:
http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Mebbe some of you car guys can weigh in on this for me.  I'm seriously contemplating giving this a shot.

[missioncontrol]

hmmmmmmmmm... very intersesting

I too would like to know what you car guys think.....

[quarterback]

Interesting.  I've not ever heard of this before, but I found a rather lengthy discussion of it here:

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=2319683

[Crazy Cooter]

Acetone, benzene, alcohol, etc.

Don't do it Drew, there are all kinds of problems "additives" like this can cause as far as gasket failure, rubber failure/vulcanization, electro-chemical stuff (I can't think of what it's called ATM) etc.  This can cost you much more than any miniscule increase in mpg they *may* have.

A better idea is to get a tune-up.  A clogged air filter reduces your mpg on the average vehicle (whatever that is) by 3 mpg.  Change your plugs, check your tire pressure, etc.

The automotive industry has had trouble meeting the federal mandates for mpg requirements for light trucks and cars, if they could boost this by simply requiring an acetone injection system, they would have done so.

E85 might be a solution if your car can run on it.  Mine is too old.

[Chemixtry]

Being a chemist, hack science always gets to me.
From the source article:

American Car Manufacturers  and others do NOT want you to know. They suffer from unlimited corporate GREED. They want bad mileage. The worse, the better as far as they are concerned.

Do really think you are getting an objective view here? The top part of the article trys to look like a scientific article from "Smart Gas". Pure science reporting does not contain such biased language in its reporting. Up to 35% increase in fuel economy. I doubt it. Three cars that are used on the graph are not enough tests to determine a trend. It would take dozens of cars. Also you cant predict what will happen with the additives - i.e. how the acetone will combine with them. Always question WHO is reporting and their credibility.

Federal trade comission addresses this kind of claim
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm

"This gas-saving product improves fuel economy by 20 percent."
Claims usually tout savings ranging from 12 to 25 percent. However, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has evaluated or tested more than 100 alleged gas-saving devices and has not found any product that significantly improves gas mileage. In fact, some "gas-saving" products may damage a car's engine or cause substantial increases in exhaust emissions

the best thing you can do is keep your engine tune and tires inflated to  the proper pressure.

Its just as bad as those who say the government is trying to keep people from having hemp because it has so many wonderful uses. Lets be real - you wan't marijuana to be legal so you can get high.

[psik0tik]

It won't hurt the car but I don't know if it'll do anything good either. As far as gakets go....if gas wont hurt it the acetone wont. Gas is wayyy more corrosive than acetone. The gaskets used in fuel management are pretty good. Ive added methanol to my gas but never acetone...I'll have to give it a try.  And the comment about the car industry....yeah right..I was a mechanic for a large auto maker for 10 yrs and I'll be the first to tell you the car industry doesnt give a crap.

[Bones]

It's a gamble dude. Better economy at the expense of potentially stuffing something expensive?

Then again it might work so go ahead and we can all use you as a Guinea pig!

[missioncontrol]

well if someone does try this let us know how it works out............

[quarterback]

It won't hurt the car but I don't know if it'll do anything good either. As far as gakets go....if gas wont hurt it the acetone wont. Gas is wayyy more corrosive than acetone. The gaskets used in fuel management are pretty good. Ive added methanol to my gas but never acetone...I'll have to give it a try.

[quarterback]

It's a gamble dude. Better economy at the expense of potentially stuffing something expensive?

I think the quantities are so small that trying it out probably isn't going to do any damage.

[DrewKaree]

Acetone, benzene, alcohol, etc.

Already in stuff you may already put in your gas tank.  Fuel injector cleaners, HEET, etc.  Acetone, though, I've never heard of. 

I'm thinking everyone thinks you're mixing half/half with your gas, like QB said, it's somewhere between 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons.  I've dumped larger quantities of STP fuel injector cleaner in my tank with POSITIVE results. 

The one thing that jumped out at me was the lowering of emissions.  I'm wondering if I coulda had a van of mine pass by trying this.  I changed a valve on the engine because it was stuck, and it went from 500-ish ppm to 120-ish ppm...problem was, it didn't eliminate that .008    that kept that car off the road.  Of course, all the "state-approved" places were willing to fix it for me, but if they couldn't solve it after $500 of work, I could get a year's extension   How about that....we know you don't pass our test, but since you dropped money with someone we approve, we'll let you drive for a year and try again later. 

I've got a work truck I'll try it with first.  Tune-ups are the easiest thing in the world to do, and that's great advice for someone not doing those easy things, but I'm already doing 'em cuz I know how easy they are.  Spark plugs, wires, rotor, cap....all easy things to do, mebbe take me an hour to swap all that stuff. 

I dunno about your area, but the government for my area mandated using a fuel additive that helped farmers sell corn, but was found over time to be causing problems with vehicle's fuel systems, we went looking for stations that didn't fit under the program.  Magically, mpg went up, and I'd worry less about fuel system problems.  I drive all over for work, so the days where I'd be around that area, I take along a few containers. 

I'm thinking this idea might work for folks who can't or won't drive to someplace with better gas for their vehicle.  I'm gonna look around a bit more to see if there's more to be read, and when I start doing my regular work, I'm thinkin' I'm gonna try it

[DrewKaree]

Do really think you are getting an objective view here? The top part of the article trys to look like a scientific article from "Smart Gas". Pure science reporting does not contain such biased language in its reporting. Up to 35% increase in fuel economy. I doubt it. Three cars that are used on the graph are not enough tests to determine a trend. It would take dozens of cars. Also you cant predict what will happen with the additives - i.e. how the acetone will combine with them. Always question WHO is reporting and their credibility.

Federal trade comission addresses this kind of claim
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm

I think I got anything BUT an objective view, that's why I brought it up here to see if any car guys had any views on it.  I also distrust ANY claims including the words "UP TO" followed by a number designed to get you all in a frenzy as to the benefits of their product. 

The difference is that no one is touting a product they sell.  They are bringing up a chemical commonly available, and I realize it's prolly folly (nice phrase!) to believe the upper ranges, but if they save me 10%, I gain a gallon of gas.  They also recommend doing your OWN tests.  It's not like they're standing to gain from you buying a commonly available product, rather than buying "Joe Bloe's Super-Dynamite Gas-Enhancer Miracle" and "doing your own tests".

As for questioning who is reporting, the FTC has done limited tests, according to their own reporting.  The quote on gas-saving devices refers to anything from additives to magnets to air disturbance items.  Of the fuel additives they tested, everything they reported on - I've never even HEARD of!  Why didn't they test commonly available fuel additives, like you'd find at your local Auto-Zone or something?  They didn't test this stuff, or anything including it, so I very well may do my own subjective tests.

I understand that it may be junk science in its methods of demonstration for you, but that's why I'm asking for opnions from car guys.  I want to know if they have any "this could cause your car to blow sky-high with an eyedropper full added to your gas tank".  I'm not looking for chemical validation from those folks.  I'm looking for how it will damage the fuel system in my car, because I'm contemplating trying it myself.  I already know that dropping a bottle of STP fuel additive in my tank increases MPG and doesn't blow up my car, but it's not worth the $2.25 a bottle - what it saves me, I spend in buying it.  I'm willing to do the subjective science myself, after I determine any adverse side effects and weigh the detriments against the benefits.

But I DO appreciate your weighing in on this to give more info

I guess I'm looking for "will this blow my car up" info.  And not from Shape D, he'll tell me my car will blow up just because I asked, not because he has a clue

[danny_galaga]

they used to mix acetone in moto x bikes until they came out with plastic fuel tanks. apparently the acetone effected the tanks and made them brittle or something. i wouldnt have thought it would be a fuel saving measure though as the purpose of using in the bikes was to give you more power (might have increased the octane rating?)

[crashwg]

If I ever get my van to pass inspection I'll sure as hell try it...

I friggin hate that van and hope it does destroy it!  But if it does work at least we'll know. 

[daywane]

Its just as bad as those who say the government is trying to keep people from having hemp because it has so many wonderful uses. Lets be real - you wan't marijuana to be legal so you can get high.

well duh!
thats a given 

[quarterback]

I friggin hate that van and hope it does destroy it!

[HaRuMaN]

Drop a few mothballs in your gas tank.

[Stingray]

The acetone idea sounds like a marvelous way to burn holes in your pistons/ cylinders. Also sounds like a fantastic way to corrode your fuel injectors/ carburetor.

I won't be trying this in my car any time soon, of course I'm already getting close to 50 MPG.

-S

[Sephroth57]

Ive done this quite a few times, making my own "race gas" Acetone raises your octane rating quite a lot depending on the ratio. I dont have the website offhand at work but depending on your mixture you can raise your octane up to 5 points safely. I dont know about MPG i dont pay attention to that crap, i got 650cc injectors and 255lph fuel pump i dont worry about that lol, but as far as boosting octane it works wonders. and higher octane burns more efficiently thus giving better gas milage, i just never payed attention to it

[sodapopinski]

have a look at this experement
http://pesn.com/2005/03/25/6900071_Acura_Acetone/

[AmericanDemon]

Lets be real - you wan't marijuana to be legal so you can get high.

I want it legalized so I can get better bud for the buck.  Plus, it would also lower the amount of drug related busts.  However, the main reason for them to do it....  Taxes.  Come on.  This is what will get the government to legalize it in the long run.  But anyway I need to get back to watering my plants.  lol

Proceed with the gaseous chatter.

[DrewKaree]

have a look at this experement
http://pesn.com/2005/03/25/6900071_Acura_Acetone/

That dude's got more variables in his "controlled" experiment than an algebra equation!

• using a mixture ratio of about 3.4 oz of acetone per 10 gallons of gas.
  
• Target addition of acetone in an optimal ratio of ~3.5 oz per 10 gallons
  
• Type of gas used: Unleaded Plus (88 octane)
  
• Type of gas already in tank: Unleaded Reg. (85 octane); 5.140 gallons short of a full tank.
  
• Calculated amount to...bring equivalent of 3.5 oz per 10 gallons: 4.62 oz.
  
• Actual amount added: 4.46 oz
  
• On 2nd acetone run, added ~1 oz of acetone to balance fuel to the approximate same ratio
  
• To measure, used 8 oz graduated cylinder.  first marking is 2 Oz, estimated a half-way point.
  
• The procedure used was inspired by

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/data.htm[/size]
[/list]

The dude lists his procedure based on a test of engine oil.  He also bases his procedure on adding 3.5 oz, when a careful reading of the site recommends something in the 1.5 to 2.5 oz per 10 gallons range, and clearly stated that amounts HIGHER than that may result in actually LOWERING fuel economy. 

Everything the guy did is guessing, adding some here and there to "get 'er back to the proper level", which is high for testing purposes, and then not even bothering to get his high mixture correct, and for some strange reason, using a higher-test gas.

The only thing I can make heads or tails of based on his results is to ignore his results.

I start my run-out of regular gas tomorrow, as long as it doesn't rain.  I have to fill up every other day, so I'll give it three-ish weeks.

Next week will be with 1.5 oz/10 gals mixture.  Week after that will be with straight gas.  Final week will be with 2.5 oz/10 gals mixture, after which point I'll let you know.  I've already got my container of acetone from HD, and I'm raring to go - GMC Sierra 2500 4x4.

I believe it already gets somewhere in the 2 mpg range....I dunno actually, as I've got a midget strapped to the side filling my gas tank when I put the riding crop to 'im....mebbe I'll throw 'im a pad and pencil to keep track

 

[HaRuMaN]

Adding acetone does not increase your octane rating.  Octane rating is a percentage of octane present in the gasoline.  When oil is refined, you end up getting hydrocarbon chains of different lengths.  Different length chains handle compression better than others.  As it turns out, the octane chain is the best.  89 octane gas has 89% of the 8 carbon hydrocarbon chain.  (Hence the name "oct-tane".)  Octane is C8H18, while acetone is C3H6O.

[danny_galaga]

it's been a while since ive flown, but im pretty sure you could get 105 (or 110) octane AVGAS. so how does one get 105% of anything into any given volume of liquid? (other than using the TARDIS).

[JCL]

Adding acetone does not increase your octane rating.

[DrewKaree]

297.5 miles   29.908 gallons of gas

Straight unleaded. 

I filled up, and put in 7.5 oz acetone (2.5 per 10 gallons).  This week has been NON-standard for me driving, but I'll report back anyways, and next week should be back to standard, so I'll try it again with the same amount.

First two times, I forgot completely to track it, third time, I remembered....20+ miles down the road   I've remembered both times since, but like I said, odd week for me this week, so I'm "throwing it out". 

[danny_galaga]

damn, i thought you were reporting back to say you'd blown your car up with that mix! hehe. iffen you do, please supply photos...

[DrewKaree]

damn, i thought you were reporting back to say you'd blown your car up with that mix! hehe. iffen you do, please supply photos...

2.5 oz per 10 GALLONS? 

Are you guys thinking that trying this requires that you have a lit cigarette in your mouth when doing this or that you heat the acetone in a container with a torch before mixing or what?  I've now personally seen on the shelves of Wal-Mart gas additives that not only contain acetone, but have various other "flammable" items in them.  No one thinks twice about sticking them in their gas tank, but I've read the "you're gonna blow yourself/your car/your neighborhood/your state up" that I figured I HAD to try this, if only to prove at the very least that adding acetone to your car's gas not only won't cause it to blow up in a mushroom cloud, but that even a gomer like me can do it safely.

[Crazy Cooter]

I used to run 105 in my dirt bike.  I don't know if it's still available at the pump anymore though.

Seph: 93 Octane + "5 points" does not = 98 Octane.  It ='s 93.5 Octane.  "Points" are added in the tenths position.  Same goes for the Octane booster stuff at the store.

ummm... tetraethyl lead... I remember driving around with my buddy to the *one* station in town that still sold leaded fuel.  I don't even see it anymore.  It's tough reaching my daily lead intake with just old wall paint.

Drew, it's the long term effects of using additives that can lead to problems.  Think of why do you use distilled water in a battery

jeez, my post is all over the place.  Sorry guys, it's past my bedtime.

[DrewKaree]

386.4 miles @ 31.274 gallons

NOT part of the "spearmint"

[danny_galaga]

Drew, it's the long term effects of using additives that can lead to problems.

[stevejt]

386.4 miles @ 31.274 gallons

That looks soooo familiar.  What are you driving, a super duty pickup?  I get 11.5 to 13 mpg in mine...

Steve

[DrewKaree]

GMC Sierra - 2500

Those numbers were with towing an additional 2000 lbs around for three days too.


*edited because I mistakenly left off a zero and danny hurted my feewings *

[danny_galaga]

GMC Sierra - 2500

Those numbers were with towing an additional 200 lbs around for three days too.

ya gotta lay off those doughnuts, drew!!

[DrewKaree]

ya gotta lay off those doughnuts, drew!!

You'll have to pry them from my cold, frosting-caked, dead hands.  Doughnuts and thick German Bock beers.  The two pleasures of life, although never together at the same time

[SirPoonga]

Interesting.  I wouldn't do it.

If, for some reason, this is a good idea the question is will the price of acetone be enough of a difference from the ammount of gas you save.  If you are only saving a couple miles per gallon you aren't gaining that much.

[DrewKaree]

Interesting.  I wouldn't do it.

I'm not certain I'll continue with it beyond the small test I'm doing, myself.

If, for some reason, this is a good idea the question is will the price of acetone be enough of a difference from the ammount of gas you save.  If you are only saving a couple miles per gallon you aren't gaining that much.

64 oz of acetone, depending on the rate I'm putting in, equates to 10-20 fillups of "treatment".  The container cost me $4 and some change, and a full gallon costs like $6-7 and some change.

[Crazy Cooter]

Take some of that extra acetone and put it in a container with various parts (O-rings, etc).  I'm interested to see what it does to them.  You should probably use baby jars or something else made of glass.  That should give a vague idea of prolonged exposure results (at high concentrations).

If the O-rings come out perfect after a week, then we'd know they are safe for use with acetone.  If they crumble, then we'd you'd have to do more investigation to see if it's safe(er) at low concentrations.

[missioncontrol]

I have easy access to acetone at work........

I'll see if maintenace can't hook me up with a few o rings to start this test........

[Stingray]

I have easy access to acetone at work........

I'll see if maintenace can't hook me up with a few o rings to start this test........

Oooh! I love a good experiment.

-S