How do I get newer 3D roms to run in Mame?

[Timstuff]

I have the Soul Calibur and Tekken Tag Tournament roms, but when I try to run them it says "This game does not work properly. Type OK to continue" and if I type OK it just shows a white or colored screen. Is there something I'm supposed to do but haven't done? I've got a pretty powerful PC (Vaio 2.66GHz Pentium 4, 512 MB RAM, Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card). Does anyone know what I need to do to get them to work?

[DreamWeb]

First of all.. your video card basically means nothing.  Mame does not use the 3d capabilities... so, it all comes down to the processor of your CPU.  2.66ghz isn't gonna cut it, I'm afraid.  But don't feel bad.. I'm not sure if there are any processors out there yet that are capable of really playing those titles well.

Also..  the reason that warning comes up before the game begins is because it's not full emulated yet.  You'll need to wait for the authors of the drivers for those games to update them before that message will disappear.

Hope that helps.

d.

[somunny]

I think you need Zinc.  Check out this site:

http://www.emuhype.com/

You may also want to search 'Zinc' on this forum, as well.

Coop

[Timstuff]

Meh, it's no big deal. I just wanted to check 'em out, but it's not really worth the effort to me when I can just pop in Soul Calibur 2 or Tekken 5 on my PS2.

[ahmer]

I've got a pretty powerful PC (Vaio 2.66GHz Pentium 4, 512 MB RAM, Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card). Does anyone know what I need to do to get them to work?

At this time mame is not preety compatible to emulate 3D games accurately,Zinc is more better choice but it has limited game list.

BTW! ZINC will eat your 2.66 GHZ and 512 MB Ram when you run Takken 3, instead of getting trouble just play them in PS2.

[Timstuff]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 

[Hoagie_one]

why dont teh mame authors implement 3d acceleration?

[JoyMonkey]

why dont teh mame authors implement 3d acceleration?

The Mame devs will never do this, since they're looking to achieve true emulation in every department- ie, your computers' CPU has to emulate the 3d acceleration that the arcade PCB did. Passing that work onto your computers own 3D acceleration hardware would be seen as cheating, and would not provide 100% true emulation (it would be an interpretation of the games graphics, but not exactly the same as the original)

It would be nice if there was some kind of unofficial plugin that could pass the tough 3D work in Mame onto your computers graphics card (like Zinc does), but the way Mame is produced I don't think something like this is do-able.

[SirPeale]

First, the game already gave you the message 'this game does not work properly'.  That should have given you a tiny clue.

Although there has been some rumblings about that lately.  A lot of people want to change that message to 'This game does not work propery due to incomplete emulation' because a lot of people mistake this message for something that *they* have done wrong.

[GGKoul]

MAME doesn't use OpenGL or DirectX to handle the graphic generation.  Like some other emulators do.

Spend the money and get the PS2 games.

[ahmer]

Is there any good PS2 emulator for PC.(just like epsxe for PS1)

[elvis]

MAME FAQ:
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html

T04. When I start the game, I see a bunch of scrambled colors, or odd references to coins, ROMs, RAM, etc.
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#t04

T10. Why do some games run so slowly on my system?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#t10

T11. How can I get <insert game here> to run faster?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#t11

M13. When will MAME use Direct3D/OpenGL to emulate <insert insane 3D system here>?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m13

[Lilwolf]

btw, Zinc would work GREAT on your machine.

Try it... its VERY impressive!

[NeeBick]

Passing that work onto your computers own 3D acceleration hardware would be seen as cheating, and would not provide 100% true emulation (it would be an interpretation of the games graphics, but not exactly the same as the original)

What about directdraw and direct3d (opengl and sdl for linux) which are already implemented for 2d graphics?  Is it not "cheating" to make the image resemble another monitor even though what you see is pure output from the emulated hardware?  They should remove all filters then since they have nothing to do with the actual hardware only the output device .  I agree with your point but it seems to contradict what already exists in mame.
It seems reasonable that if the game hardware had a dedicated 3d chip (i.e. naomi) then those commands should be able to be sent to equivalent hardware.  Let the users tune it for their own cards so the output appears legit.

[elvis]

What about directdraw and direct3d (opengl and sdl for linux) which are already implemented for 2d graphics?  Is it not "cheating" to make the image resemble another monitor even though what you see is pure output from the emulated hardware?  They should remove all filters then since they have nothing to do with the actual hardware only the output device .  I agree with your point but it seems to contradict what already exists in mame.
It seems reasonable that if the game hardware had a dedicated 3d chip (i.e. naomi) then those commands should be able to be sent to equivalent hardware.  Let the users tune it for their own cards so the output appears legit.

No no no... you're not understanding the process.

MAME only cares about getting the picture to the output buffer (even before it hits the screen).  All emulation (or simulated circuits) between the ROM file and the output must be 100% correct.

What happens AFTER the emulated output (ie: screen blitters and so forth) are of no concern.

Using D3D/OpenGL to actually draw polygons and rasterize textures causes anomalies BEFORE final output due to the large amount of approximation that modern 3D video cards and drivers do.

The only way to guarantee the final output being correct is to emulate the underlying hardware at a register-by-register level in software.

AFTER the image is drawn by the software to a buffer, it can then have any after-effect added that you want.  Scanlines, image smoothing, effects... these are all done POST PROCESSING to an output image.  What happens post process is none of MAME's concern.

Blitter effects do not contradict the philosophies of MAME, because they have nothing to do with the actual emulation that is occuring.  The only reason they exist is to firstly make the information viewable on modern hardware (if MAME only spat out exact video modes, you wouldn't be able to see them on a 31KHz PC monitor) and secondly for novely value.

Again, using 3D hardware to render actual game data causes differences between what a real arcade board would show, and what MAME would show.  As such, MAME doesn't do that.  You'll find that some of the MAME devs actually work on projects like ZiNc.  They understand that MAME is about pure emulation, and things like ZiNc are side projects to enhance the games of old on new hardware.  Hence the need for two separate projects to co-exist.

[NeeBick]

Ouch! You gave me a verbal beating  .

It not that don't understand the process but more that I don't agree with the philosophy.  It just odd where they draw the point when they can mess with the data.  We will not be at the point when we can properly emulate a 3d chip (too much latency) for a very long time.  Processors have come at a stand still (that why they are double coring now) and I don't think we will see much progress for a couple years (I'll probaly eat my words, moore's law and all) but it seems inevitable that concessions will have to be made.

Do we mess with the screen buffer or raw data meant for output processing?

[elvis]

Ouch! You gave me a verbal beating  .

It not that don't understand the process but more that I don't agree with the philosophy.  It just odd where they draw the point when they can mess with the data.  We will not be at the point when we can properly emulate a 3d chip (too much latency) for a very long time.  Processors have come at a stand still (that why they are double coring now) and I don't think we will see much progress for a couple years (I'll probaly eat my words, moore's law and all) but it seems inevitable that concessions will have to be made.

Do we mess with the screen buffer or raw data meant for output processing?

Sorry... I didn't intend it to be a "bashing".  No offense intended!  (After my last verbal beating of a poor innocent, I'm trying to make these explanations a little friendlier).

It just seems fewer and fewer people are taking the time to understand the goals of MAME these days.

MAME is about input and ouput.  For all intents and purposes, MAME should be an identical blackbox scenario to an original game board from input to output.

Input, in MAME's case, does not mean the joystick.  Don't think that we as mere humans are the most important things around.  Input means from the time a signal hits the emulated core.  Likewise, output doesn't mean our eyes.  It means the final framebuffer where the data is ready to be spit out to a device.

Putting a blitter between the frame buffer and the screen is not "messing with" the game.  However using a 3D video card to actually draw a polygon BEFORE it hits the final framebuffer is.

I guess you'd have to have a bit of a programming background to get the full gist of why MAME works the way it does.  But do believe me when I say using 3D graphics cards to speed things up will either be (a) useless if the game is CPU bottlenecked, or (b) wrong if it estimates/approximates data, which ALL 3D graphics cards do, without question.

[Lilwolf]

There is a few other issues with d3d and opengl solutions.

Every card renders differently.  So you think it works arcade perfect in one.. but then find that its different on each card you program for.

And last... Doing it right actually doesn't effect the speed all that much.  There are very few 3d games (if not none) that can be played on a computer that exists that COULD play on a computer that exists if they store all rendering.  IE ignoring ALL video still wont make them playable on any system available in the world (including supercomputers since they almost always rely on parallel processing... and mame doesnt... am I wrong here??)

So in the end. 

Go download Zinc and be happy

[JoyMonkey]

It's said best in the Mame FAQ (as mentioned previously in this thread by Elvis)
M13. When will MAME use Direct3D/OpenGL to emulate <insert insane 3D system here>?

Zinc is definitely what you want.