Compare these cheap cars

[paigeoliver]

Ok, I am probably going to need to replace my stolen car, and I really dislike debt, so I am gonna have to buy a cheap one.

What about these?

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/65873981.html

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/65613187.html

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/65192258.html

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/car/64734835.html

[SOAPboy]

whats your max price.. theres alot of cars for "dirt" that seem reliable around here..

[paigeoliver]

I really need to stay sub-$1000.

I darn near cleaned my savings out a month ago when I bought the car that was just stolen. Now I am down to like $1500 in the bank.

[SOAPboy]

I really need to stay sub-$1000.

I darn near cleaned my savings out a month ago when I bought the car that was just stolen. Now I am down to like $1500 in the bank.

ill ask around.. your close enough..

[DrewKaree]

The Caddy or the S-10.  Those other two have way too many miles to be considered useful for much longer.  The Caddy looks nicer, the S-10 can haul more, and is probably better on gas.  Dunno on odo mileage for the S-10, but from what I recall, you find them to be nice.

I just have an extreme dislike for cars the size of that Paseo and Festiva.  If I had to choose between THOSE two, I'd opt for the Paseo, actually.  Seems nicer, but there wasn't a lot of info on it, but I've had a Festiva crackerbox like that with nothing but probs, friend had one with NO probs.  Seems to have more problems to start with that might end up costing you more money in the short term, or perhaps become prohibitive to keep running.

[paigeoliver]

Yeah, the Festiva has that cheap price tag, but by the time I fix the listed problems on the sucker and get some junkyard doors and fenders, well I just could have bought a nicer car in the first place.

The Paseo LOOKS nice and solid. Appears to be in the best overall cosmetic condition of all 4 of them. Real high miles though. But, once you are in the sub-$1000 price range then overall condition is more important than mileage. I have seen cars with 90,000 on them ready for the junkyard, and I have seen 250,000+ cars that don't really have any issues.

The S-10 is old, therefore easy to work on. It is old, therefore I might have problems passing emissions (not old ENOUGH to skip emissions).

The Caddy looks big and solid, but it is going to eat gas and might be pricey to repair when it breaks.

[SOAPboy]

The Caddy or the S-10.

[paigeoliver]

The S-10 is the 2.8 V6. My Ranger with same size engine was good for about 19 Miles per gallon, but that would go up to about 24 if I did a long highway haul.

[SOAPboy]

The S-10 is the 2.8 V6. My Ranger with same size engine was good for about 19 Miles per gallon, but that would go up to about 24 if I did a long highway haul.

yeah, 20ish a gallon depending on how beat the engine is..

Would be good for you, with all the cabs you seem to buy..

[DrewKaree]

yeah, but it seems like housecleaning at paige's house recently.

I dunno about your area, but gas is going up for us here in WI.  I don't mean the weekly price fluctuations, I mean the taxes.  WI is now the highest tax rate on gasoline in the nation.  Boy am I friggen proud   Dunno if your state has the same automatic carved-in-stone increases each year, but if you do, gas will be going up IN ADDITION to the regular price.  The Caddy may be more expensive to deal with in that respect, but that V8 is probably one of the easier engines to work on if something goes wrong, but I dunno if you're an engine-work kinda guy, or if just brakes and basic stuff is more your speed.

On the plus side, the S-10 will probably be easier to find parts from a boneyard for it.

The Caddy would be my choice, personally, but I have different needs which would rule out a truck that didn't have at least a jump seat in the back.

[DrewKaree]

Nevermind, I'm a dope and the truck DOES have at least a jumpseat in it.

If the odo mileages are comparable, I'd get the truck.  If the truck has more than the Caddy (like say 30k or more), I'd get the Caddy.

*edit*
Paige, check your PM's.  I'm gonna drop you a note here

[paigeoliver]

I have done brakes, alternators, stuff like that. I have never actually gotten inside the actual engine.

As for gas, my state has some of the cheapest gas prices in the country (looks outside at station), $1.91 right now.

[SOAPboy]

Nevermind, I'm a dope and the truck DOES have at least a jumpseat in it.

If the odo mileages are comparable, I'd get the truck.

[DrewKaree]

Add a camper top, and mine seems "bulkier", but I think it's cuz of the conversion package.

Engine: V8 5.7 Liter
Trans: Automatic
Drive: 2 Wheel Drive
Mileage: 176,000 (dunno the accuracy, but I DO know the engine - A1)

Equipment
AM/FM Cassette (but you'll have to hook up/rewire the speakers.  2 work.  1 front, 1 rear
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Quad Seating (NO rear seat, so you could almost fit a cab lying down in there, but if you remove the rear captain's chairs, no prob)

Cruise doesn't work - vacuum leak - fix that and the cruise and brakes (low speed) will probably be operational for you again.

[paigeoliver]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. If all goes well I should see you tommorrow morning.

[ChadTower]

The two smaller cars are execution chambers on wheels.

[Stingray]

I'd go with the S-10 myself. That caddy is gonna chug the gas and even if you never buy another arcade machine again, owning a pickup is super handy.

-S

[IntruderAlert]

Once you've had a pickup it's hard to live without one
Plus they're great for when you remove all of your sleeves and throw beverage containers at road signs

[paigeoliver]

All those cars are out of the picture. I will be getting the Surburban that DrewKaree was talking about. I am taking the bus to Milwaukee tonight and meeting him in the morning.

[IntruderAlert]

Surburbans are nice too
Can you get a cab in there?

[DrewKaree]

Surburbans are nice too
Can you get a cab in there?

Sure can.   

[ChadTower]

What are you paying for that, if I may ask?

[Stingray]

Surburbans are nice too
Can you get a cab in there?

Those things are huge, you could just about get the S-10 in one.

-S

[paigeoliver]

What are you paying for that, if I may ask?

I'm not sure if Drew wants me to reveal the price to the public or not. I'll leave that decision up to him.

I have it home now, I like it, lots of rust, but it is really nice inside and the drivetrain is real strong and it did 16.5 MPG on the trip. It need a few assorted repairs, which I will be starting tommorrow. But it already runs and drives just fine, repairs are in the area of a radiator which still works but is obviously rusting on the inside, some suspension (perhaps alignment, or even tire balance) issues, a non-working temp guage, two radio speakers that don't work, I need to take the running boards and fender flares off the other side (I ripped them off one side with my bare hands at the gas station, everywhere they were attached to on that side was rusted out, that side was just flapping there in the wind.

I'll be trying to source some replacement front fenders (this is where the rust is heaviest, and a DARN EASY part to replace), other major rust areas I will cut out the rust and simply have a buddy weld me in some rough repairs.

As to the extent of the rust, the front fenders have it worst, and most of the sheetmetal below the doors is gone, and there are a few other spots as well. It IS extensive enough where it wouldn't be a winning proposal to truly try to 100 percent repair it. But most of it is located in areas where cutting out the rust and welding in some sheet metal (without doing actual bodywork to it), really wouldn't look that bad.

[DrewKaree]

Paige, I dunno if it matters, but we bought a generic center console from Wal-Mart.  Depends on the size you want, but the biggest one was only ~$40, and they have a half size one too.  Something to hold drinks, and ours had a little bin to hold tapes/CD's/various crap, and a trash holder for the backseat folks.  The drink holder was its most useful function.  The hang-on-the-window ones are crap personified. 

Manuals are in the driver side pocket up front

Well, evidently the price was worth taking the bus to visit me

I'm honestly STARTLED it gets 16.5 mpg!  Obviously it was mostly highway mileage, but still...oh, if you happen to find a pair of PRESCRIPTION sunglasses in it somewhere....I haven't seen 'em for a month now, and I'm just holding out hope I have them lying around somewhere in a box....I'm fairly certain they're not in there, but just in case.

[ChadTower]

That's a lot of work... even if you do it all yourself, someone with a family sure wouldn't have the time for that... there's your cost, basically.  When you have a family everything costs more, be it time or money.

[DrewKaree]

Hence the reason HE is doing that work (single guy) versus ME (married guy).  I figure total, there's about three days of our "not quite shadetree mechanics" knowhow labor involved, and the cost of the repairs should be comparitively small.  It's the cost of the time involved that precluded them, although the radiator and temp gauge should be less than 2 hours total.

I dunno the emissions laws where he lives, but if I were in NC, it wouldn't pass emissions due to the suspension, but here in WI, the suspension isn't even part of the emissions  test, and for what we used it for, the repairs done solved the problem for us.  I have a feeling Paige knows a few people who know a few people who know a fe......and so on

Everything's easy to get at on there, which doesn't necessarily make the repairs easier, just makes 'em easier to access, which a lot of times is the reason stuff takes so much time.  I'm glad HE got it - sounds like it got a good home

[ChadTower]

Fair enough.  If I knew much about cars I'd probably go an old pickup route myself eventually.

[DrewKaree]

Fair enough.  If I knew much about cars I'd probably go an old pickup route myself eventually.

Chad, if you can build a computer, you generally can follow a Haynes or Chilton manual well enough to diagnose/fix your problem.  At the very least, going through one of those books without actually doing any repairs you'll still gain valuable knowledge on what's involved in   the repair the mechanic tells you about.  Prolly the best $15 you'll ever spend on a car!

I didn't know jack about cars (dad paid somebody to do EVERYTHING except put gas in the thing, and he's old enough that he used to do THAT, also!), and I learned enough that I pulled an engine on a Honda Prelude, although I soon lost my garage space I was working in after that and never got to get the car back up and running.  Buddy I sold it to said it was the easiest time he's ever had putting an engine back in after someone got it out (I was terrified I wouldn't get it back in correctly and therefore, labeled EVERYTHING religiously!  I had several compartmentalized containers with each nut corresponding to a step in the book!)

You'd be surprised what you can do, and the outlay on tools wasn't anything more than a good socket set, flare wrench set, and open-end wrench set.  Other tools make it easier, but nothing was tool-dependent.  Rebuilding the engine would have been, but the tools weren't THAT pricey, although a mechanic would probably scoff at my sears collection of specialty tools I had amassed.

[ChadTower]

Oh, I bet I COULD learn it.  But there is a limit to the type of things I am motivated to learn.  I'm not really interested in the inner workings of a truck beyond what I would need to know to use it and perform very small maintenance on it.  Plus, I don't have a garage, so it would all have to be done on a slanted driveway in front of my house.

That, and my attention span leads me to get things torn apart, half fixed, and then left there for 4 months.  My Asteroids Deluxe is a prime example.

[Stingray]

Buddy I sold it to said it was the easiest time he's ever had putting an engine back in after someone got it out (I was terrified I wouldn't get it back in correctly and therefore, labeled EVERYTHING religiously!

That's the real secret. I've done ground up restorations on several cars. Lable every single thing that comes off the car (ziplocs and sharpies are your friends) and putting it back together is a snap. Have fun fixing up your new truck Paige. Tinkering around with old cars is probably the only thing I enjoy more than tinkering around with old video games.

-S

[DrewKaree]

That's funny!  I practiced an automotive secret without knowing it out of sheer fear!

Chad, don't tell my wife that.  She thinks the "start it and forget it" process is common to all men, but she doesn't have much proof to go on yet, so ixnay on the artypay!

[paigeoliver]

It passed the emissions test with flying colors, actually had lower emissions numbers than most compact cars I have owned. It was only on the treadmill for like 20 seconds before the TV viewer flashed "fast pass" and it was over. My old Honda couldn't even get the "fast pass".

Just replaced all the rear brakes, the alignment checked out, had the tires balanced, the steering wheel vibration is still present though, so it isn't sourced at the alignment or tire balance, but somewhere elsewhere, elusive...

[paigeoliver]

Past safety inspection too. Have plates now. I also had the inspection mechanic give the front suspension a full checking out, both lower ball joints and lower control arm bushings are marginal and all 4 of those together are working to cause the vibration (also explains why it is so erratic).

It would be a $538 job at the shop, so I might give it a shot myself. I'll have to read up on it.

[Crazy Cooter]

[sarcasm]
Ball joints are fun!
[/sarcasm]

They're a real drag.  Plan a weekend around it.  That's assuming the problem lies there.  Grab the tire and try to tip it in & out.  If it's sloppy = needs new ones.  If not, keep looking.  You should hear a slight clunk sound if the rock.  That's the slop in the joints.  Almost like the clunk you hear trying to pull a drum off.

Try looking to see if there is slop in the tie rods.

[paigeoliver]

[sarcasm]
Ball joints are fun!
[/sarcasm]

They're a real drag.  Plan a weekend around it.  That's assuming the problem lies there.  Grab the tire and try to tip it in & out.  If it's sloppy = needs new ones.  If not, keep looking.  You should hear a slight clunk sound if the rock.  That's the slop in the joints.  Almost like the clunk you hear trying to pull a drum off.

Try looking to see if there is slop in the tie rods.

I watched the mechanic do that and it did.

If ball joints are THAT fun then I might just have them done, and spend the TIME part of my vehicle budget on things I would be better at. I don't exactly own a garage.

[paigeoliver]

Are lower control arm bushings easier? $285 of that $538 are lower control arm bushings and the labor for them.

[nostrebor]

My experience is in older cars, but usually ball joints are a press in operation. Those that I have done have required special tools, and bleeding knuckles. Here in Springfield, the parts store will loan the tools to press them in and out, but they work marginally well. If they are the screw in type, or a bolted on type, then it is less difficult to replace them.

IMHO, if your parts are 50% or more of that $500+ number, let the mechanic do it.

YMMV

[Crazy Cooter]

They're all a PITA.

[DrewKaree]

Most of the time it just gives a kind of "swimmy" feel to the handling.  What year is the truck?  I might have a manual laying around that I can scan a few pages in...

That describes it pretty well.  It's an 89 Suburban, 1500, 2 wheel drive, 5.7.  I don't remember what kind they were (press in?) though.  He's got a Chilton, but unless he's got help and the tools, won't that be a pain in the ass? I've helped on 'em, but I can't imagine doing them by yourself...seems like a recipe for disaster!

[Bones]

Got any bikes for sale Drew?

I will put Mrs Bones on a plane.

[paigeoliver]

Hmmm, I don't think I am gonna do the front suspension myself then, not unless I have someone helping who has done them before.

Well, I am off to the junkyard to see if I can find any front fenders.

[DrewKaree]

Got any bikes for sale Drew?

I will put Mrs Bones on a plane.

Certainly!  Which one would you prefer?  I've a Cannondale, a Trek, and a Bianchi....take your pick.  I can't send all three, but I'm willing to throw in some extra parts and tools if you can guarantee she does windows

[paigeoliver]

I managed to find some rust free fenders at the junkyard, the first one was a real pain to take off (hour and a half), but the second one came off in like 10 minutes. They are (of course) a different color scheme (and are badged 6.2 Liter Diesel), but they are still a whole lot better than the ones that were on it, plus they won't be so glaring out of place once I primer them, since the truck is almost the exact same color as primer grey anyway! 

I might go back and steal the rear bumper too, as it is perfect, and mine has been hit.

[ChadTower]

There's another reason you can do that in MO but not in MA.  We don't have pick and pull yards like that.  They were all eliminated 20 years ago when the land became too valuable to use for rusting out cars.

[Stingray]

Are lower control arm bushings easier?

If you're going to do one, you might as well do both while you have it all apart. I agree with Cooter, it's not really a hard job just really a time consuming, knuckle busting, pain in the backside that will make you want to throw tools and use colorful language.

-S