NFL whos looking good so far

[tommy]

The NY Giants are looking good so far with the addition of wide reciever Plaxico B, and having Amani Toomer on the other side and having Jeramy Shockey at tight end ,and tiki barber at RB , the only question is can Eli Manning get it done , if so we are looking good.    -Gmen  ohhh yeah. 

[ChadTower]

The Giants are still a second tier team with an ancient defense.

Alas, so are the Buccaneers. 

Right up the street from me we have the Pats, though, and looking at their roster they have only lost two players of importance:  Bruschi and Andruzzi.  They did lose two brilliant coordinators but I think they will overcome the losses.  None of the other teams has improved enough to close the gap.  Still the best team in football.

[Hoagie_one]

Go Lions

[tommy]

The Giants are still a second tier team with an ancient defense.

Alas, so are the Buccaneers.

[Shape D.]

Arizona's gunna rock this year.









And by rock I mean sit on the field like a rock doing nothing as the opposing teams run over and around them.

[ChadTower]

Andruzzi is an offensive lineman, not an LB.

[tommy]

Andruzzi is an offensive lineman, not an LB.

My bad.

[DrewKaree]

Safest place to be during a tornado is in the Lions end zone.  Touchdowns rarely spotted there.

I can't friggen believe the Packers let Sherman screw up the salary cap and draft for so long without doing SOMETHING to make us a possibility to contend in Brett's final years.  If Sherman didn't have Favre, his ass woulda been punted two years ago

How the eff do you KNOW Favre is gonna retire, and REFUSE to draft/sign at least a decent backup every year?  He shoulda been canned the first year it came up and he drafted everything BUT a QB, and he merely solidified that opinion when he DRAFTED UP TO GET A PUNTER! 

At least tickets to see a game in Lambeau will become easier to obtain

[ChadTower]

Isn't GB municipally owned?  Start a ballot referendum to fire Sherman.

[DrewKaree]

The day-to-day operations are turned over to Bob Harlan.

Besides, what if the three foreigners who own Packer stock wanted to replace him with Jaques Chirac?    We'd give up before the season started!

[ChadTower]

The day-to-day operations are turned over to Bob Harlan.

Besides, what if the three foreigners who own Packer stock wanted to replace him with Jaques Chirac?    We'd give up before the season started!

Having Sherman as coach isn't as far off as you seem to think.

[DrewKaree]

Oh I've seen it, but I'd like to be able to hold out SOME hope.  Chirac would remove all doubt.

The only thing we could get that would be worse is if they hired Ditka and he gave away our entire draft for a decent QB with a penchant for treating non-existant glaucoma

I believe if the Packers don't finish last in the division this year, they'll be second to last.  The Bears and the Lions will vie for ANY title the Packers can get.

On the plus side, Ted Thompson seems willing to follow the Patriot's example of keeping salaries reasonable, but we don't have the same team-concept practicing type of coach.  Best move you guys ever made was cutting your losses with Bledsoe.  He's the current Dan Marino.....very good QB who can't do it all.

[ChadTower]

The only thing we could get that would be worse is if they hired Ditka and he gave away our entire draft for a decent QB with a penchant for treating non-existant glaucoma

Marinovich retired and Quincy Carter IS still out there.

On the plus side, Ted Thompson seems willing to follow the Patriot's example of keeping salaries reasonable, but we don't have the same team-concept practicing type of coach.  Best move you guys ever made was cutting your losses with Bledsoe.  He's the current Dan Marino.....very good QB who can't do it all.

That model only works when you have guys like Brady making half market value and stars like Bruschi making <$900k (yes, he really makes less than a million).

Look at Indy.  They will never win the superbowl while they're paying Peyton Manning over a quarter of the cap space.

[Zero_Hour]

Win or lose, I'm, down with the Black and Gold.


And no, I'm not speaking of New Orleans. 

[DrewKaree]

C'mon Zero....deep down, like around the 6 foot depth, EVERYONE is an Aints fan

[tommy]

With all these players changing hands this season and the ones the had a decent amount of good play on one team and then played like crap on another ,what does that say to you that some coaches are better then others or was it the system that was too hard for cetain players to pick up in a new area, or it also could mean they just had a few decent years and are really not very good.

The next team who picks up a player that was just released always seems to think , im the coach who can bring out this guys full potental, but what is really needed for a player to respond.

I say you really need to have a good supporting cast of good players to feed off eachother with the heart and know how to win, now obviosly there are some horrible players ,but how could kurt warner go from winning the superbowl with the rams to a below average QB with the giants its almost like he forgot how to play football, now we could say hes getting old or he had thumb problems , but something went wrong ,what was it ?

[ChadTower]

Warner played well for the Giants.  He was not below average.

[tommy]

Warner played well for the Giants.

[Shape D.]

Warner played well for the Giants.  He was not below average.

But he didn't play like Kurt Warner.

[ChadTower]

But he didn't play like Kurt Warner.

Uhm, that's because he's much older now.

[tommy]

But he didn't play like Kurt Warner.

Uhm, that's because he's much older now.
[/quote

There are many old players still helping there teams and playing at a high level , thats no excuse. 

[ChadTower]

There are many old players still helping there teams and playing at a high level , thats no excuse.

Excuse for what, exactly?  He played decently and didn't get any support.  Not much running, certainly not much protection, and his receivers were crap.  The entire team played poorly, placing most of the blame on him is shortsighted.  The Giants are not very good, period.  Without Barber's monster year they go 3-13 last year.

[tommy]

Thats why we got rid of kerry collins he couldnt hang on to the ball, when he did hang on to the ball the giants had some good years, so we get K W hes dropping the ball left and right.

I consider having Toomer, hillard, shockey, and barber out of the back field some good people to throw to.

  Excuse for what? your the one who said he wasnt playing good because he was old , and now its the supporting cast whitch is it.

[ChadTower]

I consider having Toomer, hillard, shockey, and barber out of the back field some good people to throw to.

  Excuse for what? your the one who said he wasnt playing good because he was old , and now its the supporting cast whitch is it.

Toomer and Hilliard - neither good enough to break anything, ever.  Shockey - most overrated player in the NFL.  Barber - excellent back and had an excellent year.

I never said he wasn't playing well because he is old.  Read my comments again.  I said he wasn't playing like the Kurt Warner from 1999 because he's older.  That is a true statement.  You combine a player who is no longer able to carry a crappy team with a crappy team and the team does not win.

[tommy]

Warner didnt even throw to toomer or hillard , warner was on the ground holding on to the ball too long, and as a result of holding on to the ball too long most times he got it smacked away and fumbled , those recievers had there worst season ever form not getting the ball much they didnt even have a touchdown most of there year if at all.

If barber could run the way he did surely it wasnt the o lines fault for not protecting warner, he just didnt pull the trigger and sat on it.

As for shockey he can run over any would be tackeler, he opens up the offence they had to double cover him half the time, hes not overrated acording to other teams d cordinaters.

[ChadTower]

Warner didnt even throw to toomer or hillard , warner was on the ground holding on to the ball too long, and as a result of holding on to the ball too long most times he got it smacked away and fumbled , those recievers had there worst season ever form not getting the ball much they didnt even have a touchdown most of there year if at all.

I played QB for years.  You want to know WHY he didn't throw to those guys?  They can't get open.  When there are no open receivers, and it is third and 8, and you are a slow runner, you either throw the ball away or you take the sack.  After a while a QB will become frustrated with going three and out because his receivers aren't open and will try to make plays.  That's what happened to him. 

If barber could run the way he did surely it wasnt the o lines fault for not protecting warner, he just didnt pull the trigger and sat on it.

The Giants offense was a run blocking scheme.  They have a line that blocks far better for the run than for the pass.

As for shockey he can run over any would be tackeler, he opens up the offence they had to double cover him half the time, hes not overrated acording to other teams d cordinaters.

Actually, Parcells called him exactly that:  the most overrated player in the NFL.  Sure, he's hard to tackle.  He also blocks like an idiot and runs the wrong pattern more than any other NFL receiver.  Do you understand what it does to the QB when his outlet receiver has run the wrong route?  He had to hold the ball and take a sack.  Sound familiar?

Look, it all comes down to this:  If Warner was so damn bad, could you tell us why the Giants were 4-1 going into their bye week?

[tommy]

Who can really tell why a team takes a dive, you have to put the blame on the QB MOST times hes in control of the offence, hes the one who spreads the ball around, YES there has to be people open but how could they not be open when the apposing team in trying to stop barber from breaking one.

You cant say on any certain play who is running what route wrong or right, if it seemed like he was running the wrong route it was probably because warner didnt know the patterns, im sure at times shockey didnt know where to be ,but he caught a hell of alot more balls with collins at Q because collins at least knew the the patterns.

[ChadTower]

Erm, no, no, and no.  Every one of the statements you just made are wrong.  It CAN be determined who ran the wrong route.  The defenses were NOT stacking to stop Barber that early in the season because he has never had a season like that before.

Eh well, I tried, I give up.  The Giants were no good last year and they will be no good this year.  Accept it.

[tommy]

I said YOU cant tell who ran what route wrong not the team couldnt, barber has had many good seasons except for all those fumbles the year before. What team do you like we will have to make some bets. 

[ChadTower]

Eh, I have always been a Tampa fan.  They're better than the Giants but not by a whole ton.

I live within spitting distance of Gillette Stadium, though, and most of the players' homes are spread around mine.  I get to see true excellence on a daily basis.

For someone who has played a lot of QB, it's actually fairly simple to see if the route was correct or not by the blocking scheme and alley that would or would not be opened up by other receivers pulling off defenders.  That is, IF the idiot producers show the right replays.

My true nonPatriot highlight of last season was that hit the Eagles laid on Eli Manning in his first game... I thought he was going to burst out in tears.

[DrewKaree]

And relying on your tight end as one of your better recievers is a recipe for disaster.  I watched year after year of good TE's come through GB.  In each and EVERY instance, the TE was not only interchangeable, at times, they even sent in linemen to act the part of TE! 

Look at Eric Johnson in San Fran this past year.  Dynamite numbers.  Hey, can anyone recall how their team did?  The TE should be AWESOME as a result of the REST of the team doing their job well.

I notice you haven't brought up the phenomenal TD numbers of Shockey, his penchant for dropping passes at times....kinda useless to run over a guy when you aren't in possession of the ball.

Warner came from a team that had 2 SUPERSTARS for recievers, with fill-ins fairly close in talent to Hilliard and Toomer, and the ability to throw out still ANOTHER decent reciever in the mix, and a pass-catching RB who was probably on par (I'd say better than) with Shockey in his recieving abilities.  Add in an O line that was designed expressly with pass protection in mind, playing in a dome, and you've got a start at understanding the different between StL Warner and NYG Warner.  Add ON the fact that Chad is pointing out to you, that he got oldER and you should be able to get this.

Seriously, how can you not see the fact that Warner was so much better suited to the Arena League game which StL resembled more than any other team?  The dude couldn't make the Packers even knowing he probably wouldn't see a second of playing time....why would similar needs in a QB for NY be met by him when he's older?

[tommy]

Yeah that was a good welcome to the nfl hit for eli, i havent seen the schedule this year yet, im down near miami and the giants havent came down this way in who know how long , so hopefully they will play the bucs so i could get a chance to see them in person, thats as far as ill go... maybe jacksonville also.

[ChadTower]

And relying on your tight end as one of your better recievers is a recipe for disaster.  I watched year after year of good TE's come through GB.  In each and EVERY instance, the TE was not only interchangeable, at times, they even sent in linemen to act the part of TE!

Ben Coates. 

[tommy]

I think Toomer is under rated ,him and now plexico are as good as those rams recievers.     

Shannon sharpe  was a loud mouth but a good TE.

Poor warner is stuck in arizona now , but they do have some good rookie wide outs.

[ChadTower]

I think Toomer is under rated ,him and now plexico are as good as those rams recievers. 

Dude, that is the funniest thing I've heard in about two weeks.   Neither of them is half as good as Bruce, Holt, or even Faulk as a receiver.

[DrewKaree]

Who can really tell why a team takes a dive, you have to put the blame on the QB MOST times hes in control of the offence, hes the one who spreads the ball around, YES there has to be people open but how could they not be open when the apposing team in trying to stop barber from breaking one.

Marino and Bledso had no problems in the QB area, both made it to the Super Bowl, do you seriously blame THEM for their teams being perennial also-rans?

You want to say you have to blame the QB most times, you say Warner either was fumbling or held on too long (two things that are funny when you put it like that), and go on to say Barber has had many good seasons except for all those fumbles that one time...was it Barber's fault, then, that they were losing....or.....?

You're all over the place blaming everyone but the recievers you seem to like.  Hilliard and Toomer have taken turns having a crap year EVERY year for the past FEW years.  Ask ANY fantasy football player.  Shockey has been one of the larger disappointments at TE, but I'm glad he gets all the hype he does, because that generally keeps a better TE around for me to draft. 

Barber was better at RB than Ron Dayne, yet your coach continued to platoon them.  Think coach knew something everyone else didn't?

You cant say on any certain play who is running what route wrong or right

Sure you can, if you see the play, like Chad said, and if you understand where the play is supposed to be headed and why....but let's just say you CAN'T tell.  How then can you turn around and say

if it seemed like he was running the wrong route it was probably because warner didnt know the patterns

I mean, if you can't say on any certain play, how can you say with ANY amount of "probability" that it was the QB then?  Bad logic.

I gotta say tommy, I really appreciate you giving us a reason to talk football in these dark months of non-football  

[DrewKaree]

Plexiglass was so good he....made it to.....number.....two?

He was the number 2 reciever behind a guy with no ACL, and still couldn't break out.  That IS a good line you had there! 

I actually think Warner will be a better fit in Arizona.  Dennis Green is a darn good coach and everything seems to be setting up for Warner similar to StL.  Granted, the recievers don't have the same skill level, but they're decent.  Probably a step below the Giants recievers.  I'm thinking if Green sets up an offense designed to take advantage of Warner's abilities, Warner can make the Cardinal's recievers look as good as the Giants this year. 

Emmit retiring was one of the better things happening to Arizona too.  They'll be a better team without him, now that they know how to run block a bit better.  They'll make whoever they decide to replace him (Green is inconsistent with his RB choices) better, knowing they won't have to hold their blocks as long to allow Emmitt's walker through the hole too.

[Zero_Hour]

From Steelers fans everywhere - good luck with Plex.  Lots of potential, just getting it out on the field has been a bit of a problem. Plex may have that 6'5" frame, and have the potential for the big play, but I'll Take Hines Ward any day.

[tommy]

Drew your twisting some of my words here, you obviosly didnt know if i was talking about me or chad, i do know most of the time what route is to be run givin a good view , i thought chad didnt, even if i didnt im almost sure a guy who has been there for a few years has a better handle on plays more then a guy who just entered the system.

That barber fumble filled year had nothing to do with warner he wasnt the yet, but collins was also fumbling much like warner was last year, thats 2 main guys dropping the ball thats why they stunk.

As far as marino and bledsoe, they made it to a superbowl and no they are not why there team lost, im talking about a QB who fumbles and dosent throw the ball away when nothing is happening.

[DrewKaree]

Hey, did Arizona dump McCown or who's going to start there?  I know it's a Dennis Green roll of the dice, but he's a pretty good judge of offensive talent OTHER than RB's.

I tell ya, if Dennis Green ever finds someone as good as him at assessing defensive talent, and follows their advice, WHATEVER team he is coaching will be dynamite! 

I miss a few coaches too.  Wayne Fontes.  Couldn't have had a better coach for the Packers.  Dave Wannestedt.  We should have paid Chicago to keep him on the Packers "away" coaching team.  Every Tampa Bay coach up until Tony Dungy, who seems to have Dennis Green-itis.  Jim Mora.  Just pure entertainment.

Anyone been to their local stadium or any other stadium?  (it's hard getting tickets for me, so I figure it's the same for others)

I've been to Lambeau (the old version) and will see a pre-season game this year in the new version, been to Ericsson Stadium once....been to a several college stadiums too, but none really compare except for UNC's stadium.